NOTE: This thread is NOT for asking about whether a certain band is acceptable or not. Initial assessment of bands is what the band queue is for. This thread is for appeals to/questions about rejections/deletions/blacklistings only. Don't try to cut in line. We don't do "pre-checks", so don't bother asking. If you feel you have to ask here, perhaps it's better not to submit at all.This is the thread to appeal your submitted band being rejected or deleted (or for inquiring about blacklisted/deleted bands in general).
Please read this post before posting, it will save you a lot of headache.[ Thread renewed due to the "No posts exist for this topic" bug. Here's the old one for future references:
viewtopic.php?t=39064 ]
- Before asking anything here, make sure you
read the rules.
- Before asking why a band was rejected/deleted/blacklisted,
>>>use the search function<<< to see if the reasons of the deletion can be found.
Quote:
Search for keywords: Band name
Search for all terms
Search in forums:: Suggestions and complaints
Display results as: Posts
If the search yielded no results, you may ask.
POLITELY. Rudeness and insults will not be tolerated.
Before posting, ask yourself these questions:1) Did you read all the
Site Rules?
2) Does your submitted band have a
valid album out? (See
here for what we define as a valid release.)
3) Is your submitted band's release
already out/available as of the date of your posting?
4) Did you provide
evidence of the above under the "submission rules" field of the band form?
If you answer NO to any of the above questions, then you can stop right there, as there are no ways to appeal this. Please only resubmit your band when you have an available physical album, or a valid digital album, and evidence for it.1. ReleasesThe MA only accepts bands that have a physical release or a
valid digital release. For physical releases, that means that the band must either have a CD, a tape, a vinyl, or a release in some other physical format out.
Since January 1st, 2013, the site also allows certain digital-only bands. Please be aware that despite all guidelines listed in the rules, the judging of an acceptable digital-only release is fundamentally case-by-case and as such can still depend on the staff's discretion, as these releases are generally more complicated to judge. You can post in this thread and state your case with the necessary evidence and arguments if you disagree with a rejection based on an unacceptable digital release, but if you are again given a "no", don't continue to argue about the details. An initial rejection most often already means that the release was thoroughly reviewed and judged unacceptable. We try to be realistic about what digital release we consider serious and "proper", but are also very careful about adding such bands lest the site becomes flooded with bedroom demo bands.
Also, whatever the valid release, it must have been released by the time of the band's submission. Even if the release comes out tomorrow, the band will not be accepted until then.
2. "Metalness"The second requirement is more difficult to assess as accurately as the existence of a valid release, but the owners and staff like to think that we, as longtime fans of metal music, are also capable of making reasonable assertions about what is and isn't metal (some mods are better with some subgenres than others, of course). Mistakes do happen, and if you are absolutely certain a mistake has been done, show us the band's music and we'll listen. Do not argue the decisions. This thread is a court of appeals, not a shouting match. If you act rudely and/or refuse to accept the decision, you might get banned. And provide samples, otherwise it will not lead to anything.
We do not think that we are the one true absolute authority on what may be called metal, so please don't act like we are trying to thought-police your perception/enjoyment of music by rejecting a band. However, for this particular site, run by its two owners and select staff, we do allow ourselves to enforce these judgement calls when it comes to what gets listed and what doesn't. Disagreement is inevitable, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise we might just as well be the Heavy Music Archives or something similarly blurry. Kindly respect our decisions even if you disagree with them.3. EvidenceIf you submit a band, it's your task to provide the mods with evidence. A band's MySpace page or MP3s uploaded somewhere will work well as evidence on the metalness, but the problems usually encountered concern the existence of a physical release. A good quality digital photograph of a CD and a case is a good way to provide evidence (
here is an example), as is a distro list distributing it or a mention on a label website. If you opt for the photograph, upload it on an image hosting website (
Imgur,
TinyPic...) and include the link to the photo in the "Submission notes" of your band form. Reviews on respectable and well-known websites are acceptable, too. However, a crude band website mentioning a demo casually, with no information on the format, no links or email addresses for ordering it, no cover art, or cover art that does not seem convincing (bad photoshops, MS Paint, etc.) are not enough. The required amount of evidence is decided by the moderator, and the evidence must be supplied by the submitter.
4. Side-projectsEDIT: As of September 2015, regular users are no longer allowed to submit side-projects or other non-metal.
A side-project is a band started in parallel to another band. It is not the same thing as a band member leaving a band and forming a new one, or to join another band. The MA accepts some side-projects of metal band members, the metal band in question must be on MA. The side-project must be on a label with worldwide distribution. It means that the label must have professional distributors who will supply real-life shops with albums, in other words be a big enough label. It is not the same as worldwide shipping, method used by small online labels.
Finally, the side-project rule is not absolute. Not all bands that fulfil its material requirements will be added, particularly if they are adjudged to have minimal connection to the metal culture. Precedent-setting side-projects, such as Mortiis, were originally decided on this basis alone, before the rule was further codified as a matter of necessity. These further codifications are intended as a band-aid/block to reduce queue clutter (i.e. scads of social-networking-based "ambient" projects with no significant output)--not as a new loophole or primary admission criterion.
5. Comparing bands (don't)This may seem like the obvious course of action in some cases, but be advised that we generally frown upon arguments like "you have band A listed and band B is similar, hence you must also accept band B".
Please avoid this, as it comes with the following problems:
- We simply do not work that way. Each band is assessed and judged on its own merit and trying to compare two distinct bands is treacherous business, even if they may sound similar (which a moderator may not even agree with in the first place). And if the two are indeed sonic carbon copies, perhaps the listed one should be deleted instead. Obviously that is not the only possible scenario and claiming two bands sound the same does not automatically invalidate an argument. It's just very, very often misguided (see below) and we think it's more precise (as much as these things can be) to assess each band as a self-contained entity rather than add even more subjectivity and ambiguity by bringing other bands into the reviewing process.
- Since the site lists a (very) small number of non-metal exceptions, one might be tempted to use them as a reference point. However, these are exactly that, exceptions, and not subject to our guidelines on music.
- Slippery slope. We do not want to base further inclusions solely on one or more listed band(s) that might be questionable or were wrongly approved to begin with. We would rather (re-)assess the proposed inclusion and the compared listed band(s) on their own instead of expanding a part of the database based around repeated instances of a resigned "we'll, we have this, why not this as well?". See item 1). To be clear, nobody thinks that we'd otherwise be doomed to ride into fallacy territory and in danger of including BB King or whatever, but we are quite strict about keeping the database focussed.
- Most importantly, the Archives can in some ways be seen as a database of metal releases rather than bands. What that means is that in order to gain entry, a band only needs one predominantly metal release (ideally a full-length), regardless of the rest of their discography. This can result in bands starting out as metal, but changing to non-metal later or the reverse. More subtle cases exist, with bands being listed based on a (possibly lesser-known) fraction of their discography. So how does this connect to comparing bands? Well, it's simple: Since we judge releases, comparing band A as a whole to band B as a whole is a fallacious argument when one is actually comparing non-metal output of band A (accepted based on their metal output) to non-metal output of band B (unacceptable because they have no metal output). Consider it one level above arguing that band B should be included because they have a few songs as metal as band A's releases.
So again, each band is judged individually and we don't do the blind approach "A, hence also B".
6. Be patientThe staff consists entirely of unpaid volunteers investing their own free time in this site. We aren't a streamlined there-for-you-24/7 service. Response time to your inquiries may vary, depending on who's online and who checks this subforum. Mods may answer within minutes, but a few days aren't unusual either. That means that you
SHOULD NOT repost your inquiry unless
both of the following conditions are fulfilled: 1) it's been unusually long (over 1 week
at least) since your post, 2) your post is no longer on the last page of this thread. Note that sometimes mods may choose to respond to inquiries preceeding or suceeding yours, but seemingly "ignore" yours. Again,
DO NOT repost, unless the two aforementioned conditions apply.
Read the second paragraph here as to why responses can be selective. Before posting, please think through every point on this list, and try to figure out with your common sense what might be wrong. Also, check the email feedback box under your profile on the database, and you'll get the reasons for rejections via email. The moderator will include a description of the problem. If all this does not help, ask about the band ON THIS THREAD. Do NOT start a new one asking "why didn't you accept Vomit Sodomy?!? they are metal and have The Undead Muessin out next month!! Assholes!". We won't bite, unless you start barking.
Thank you.
© Napero, Nightgaunt, Morrigan, Azmodes
[Edited by Azmodes on January 4th, 2013; reflecting the rule change regarding valid releases]
[Edited by Azmodes on June 16th, 2014; added the bit about pre-checks]
[Edited by Azmodes on June 25th, 2015; some minor tweaking]
[Edited by Azmodes on November 27th, 2015; added the bit about comparing bands]
[Edited by Azmodes on January 4th, 2017; added the bit about patience]
[Edited by Azmodes on March 3rd, 2018; some more tweaking and additions because I'm OC about conveying our MO and reasoning]