That's pretty awesome. Anybody have any reccomendations for cymbals, i want a set of them that has a good range of sounds. from quick and high pitched, to long sounding and low?

Well HH and HHX from Sabian are worth mentioning. Also already discussed Zildjians A-Custom and Armand. I think the nearest set of all-around from Paiste would be 2002 or Innovations, can't say for sure though.

Ohh, I do not like Sabian and would not recommend them. I think that you pay way too much for what you get. I swear by Zildjian, though. K Customs will do you a lot of good.

And does anybody know a really cheap place where I can get bell cymbals?

I don't quite understand this post, because it's a fact that Sabian and Zildjian are very similar with their prices and high-end cymbals.
K-Customs pay more than Sabian's high-end HHX btw.

But, eventually, Ialso like Zildjian better.
AAX of Sabian is magnificent though.

That is a great series of cymbals right there. I've had an AAX stage crash for a few years now, sounds great.

Yea, zildjian and sabian are basically the exact same. They use the same welding techniques and all that. Mainly only different names. I'm pretty sure i'm either getting a semi high end set of sabians or zildjians. I'll see whats cheaper in the store.

If you look at Zildjians, the K series cymbals have a darker, warmer tone, where your A customs have more attack and shimmer.

I use an A Custom projection ride 21" as my main crash- in fact, all of my crashes except for my Chinas are ride cymbals. If you want a nice, quick wash, go with a 16-17" A Custom thin crash. Something heavier to ride on but not overwhelming, go with an 18-19" rock crash. Something darker, a K-series Dark Ride, 20". Makes an awesome crash or a long-sustaining jazzy ride.

Really? That's strange. Wouldn't that mean that you're missing out on that fast, quick crash sound? The way I'm picturing it, all your "crashes" would have long, reverberating sounds. Wouldn't that be annoying, not to mention restrictive? It's a unique idea, though.

You just need to hit the cymbal harder to get the attack. I use marching sticks and I swing very hard. Anyone standing in front of my kit learns not to tilt an ear towards my right hand side, because their ears will ring for days. Of course, I'm pretty fucking deaf now.

Anyway, it was part of the sound I was going for with the band I was in at the time. I don't mind smaller crashes, and if I were playing tighter, crisper music I'd use them. It's just that around here you have a lot of metalcore and emo bands with their teeny drumsets with the toms all flattened out and their pretty, polished flat cymbals, and my drumset is a 1980's era Tama Rockstar with a 24 x 22" kick, 18" floor, 15" and 14" racks (very deep too), and I use the Lars Ulrich signature snare drum (tuned properly that thing sounds like a fucking shotgun). My mission was to blow up sound consoles and deafen the first three rows of people. With my size it's not too hard to hammer away and get all the attack I need. Let's just say I'd be a lousy jazz drummer.

Wouldnt it still reverberate alot and keep on ringing after the main ¨crash¨sound? Im going to have to try this out when I next get onto a drum set. May be a short while because Im currently in mexico, though . Also, what are the sounds like if you make your hi hat into a crash? As in seperate them and put them on stands.

Got my first kit recently!

Pearl Vision VLX, 14"x5,5" steel snare, 10"x08" & 12"x09" small & medium toms, 10"x16" floortom, 22"x18" bassdrum with a Sabian cymbal set which included 16" hihats, 16" & 18" crash cymbals, a 20" ride and a 10" splash. + of course all the hardware, etc.

I got the idea for big cymbals from Dave Grohl when he was playing with Nirvana. If your music is loud enough it doesn't matter if the cymbal keeps vibrating, it won't be louder than the guitars or the other cymbals you're beating on.



I've found them to sound pretty bad by themselves. They tend to be thicker than other cymbals and they have a really odd-sounding ring to them, and almost no shimmer. They're really made to be played as a unit. Still, I've seen people use them separately before, I've just never once heard that and thought that it sounded good.

Yea my friend did it, but he had ridiculously thin and weak hi hats, so it just sounded wierd. You were right though, the initial hit caused a really ugly ringing sound.

Way to go! Pearl Vision is a great set, especially if it's your first one O_O
Which set of Sabians? AA?

I'm teaching myself drums. There's this Yamaha electric kit in the band room at the school I clean (even has two bass pedals. Blastbeat time!!!!). Working on little coordination exercises right now along with a few parts from some songs I like.

I can already play Dunkelheit, too! (I know, not a huge achievement but still...)

hey i taught myself when i was in grade 2, air drumming to nirvana. I'd rule right now if my mum bought my a drumkit, ha! Screw lessons, I just play my way (which every drummer thinks is crazy) and playing so long get your endurance right to play what you want.

@Mattforst - ahaha, you're my twin mate. I just had to invest in some graphite sticks for practice, i chew through normal ones like crazy.... i've watched to much Exodus... but I need earplugs man. I have that ringing in my ears at 21, it sucks!

I got a sweet ride today, i was recently using a crash as a ride too, which sucks playing thrash, but I got a second hand Sabian XS 20" or something... not good with the brand names but with a heavy stick the sound just reeks of lombardo and I love it! $190 was a steal.

Yeah, im pretty sure i'm going to buy some earplugs soon. My ears are beginning to ring.

Definitely, I'm going to be looking into a set as soon as I move out of the apartment. I leaning towards an acoustic set.

Kai Hahto.

All you need to know.

I just went out and splurged. My old band got back together and I really needed something new. My huge-ass kit (which I described a page or two back) is such a pain in the ass to lug around, and they actually make smaller drums that sound better.

I was really inspired by Kai Hahto (Wintersun, Rotten Sound) to try a smaller, tighter kit. So I did some looking around, and the best bang for my buck was ddrum. As much as I hate the mental image ddrum conjures up for me (think big, octagon-shaped electric pads), their acoustic drums sound incredible. I played around on a kit and decided on a six-piece Dominator Maple, though I don't know what sub-model it is 'cause it didn't say on the receipt. It's a midnight blue-to-black fade with matching hoops. The dimensions are:

Bass: 20 wide x 22 deep
Snare: 13 x 7
Rack Toms: 10 x 8, 12 x 8
Floor Toms: 14 x 14, 16 x 16

It's basically the exact opposite of what I have now. It takes up about 1/3 the space broken down than my big ol' Tama kit does.

Didn't come with hardware, just mounting brackets for the rack toms. I also got new heads and a cheap set of bags (I am still one short, but I am out of cash for now). I put the new heads on and tuned it up, and it sounds amazing. The toms really cut, the kick is punchy and strong, and the snare makes my ears ring, which is hard to do considering how deaf I am. You know what sucks though? No band practice till the end of this coming week.

Dammit.

Haha mate your kit is huge. I still have a crappy swingstar with a cracked bass drum frame, two racks and one floor tom. Thats gonna have to change by the time our demo is done, can't really lug around a broken bass drum around... being poor blows.

What are good hi hats to look at? I have 14" Ziljian ZBTs and I think they suck hard, I need something much more cleaner. The only others i have is my new ride and two 16 and 18 Sabian B8s... nothing fancy at all, but when we're only in demo land it isn't that much of a big deal. I also have a Paiste china crash, though it never gets used.

What speeds are you guys getting? Playing thrash, we're pushing 250 atm... pity my endurance sucks arse, though I'm better than the geetarist

Indeed, and he's not one of those metal drummers who can just play metal, he'll play anything from grind to jazz if asked to.

I used to use a bottom of a Meinl Meteor Brass 14'' Hi-Hat as a crash. As a primary crash, it just sucked, but it actually worked as a third crash/effect thingy, as it had a specific, a little ringing sound (and I was looking for a specific sound). Unfortunately it cracked in three places quite soon, and I heard that it's always the case when a part of a hi-hat is used as a crash, so I wouldn't suggest that.

Don't I know it, I am in debt for the next month at least. My old kit, the drums were big, but this kit, the drums are smaller even though there is one extra tom. It should actually take up less space.



Well, you're just wasting a good accent cymbal if you don't use the china. I use two of them, soon to be three (I'm going to get a small 12" accent china). The ZBT's are craptastic, I know. If you're looking cheap, the Sabian B8 series aren't bad. A decent set will run you about $300US new, though. Check eBay and Craigslist for good deals. The only decent entry-level hats I've heard are by Paiste and they're still pricey compared to the ZBT's and the B8's.



I never really used a metronome or a click track, I couldn't tell you.

I've seen some of his videos on Youtube playing jazz, and watching some live Wintersun and Rotten Sound stuff, I'm just amazed at the ease and groove with which he plays. Even during a blast beat, he doesn't sound tight or rigid, and the subtlety he employs is just incredible. I hear something new every time I listen to the Wintersun album, and I've been rocking that every day for 2 1/2 years.

Blastbeat at 260 bpm :smoke:

B8 Pros.

Thanks for the help Matt. I should use my China I know, but at the moment I'm still trying to find those right times to actually use it, ya know? Since i'm still pretty cruddy I'm only just learning how make use of everything I have , and using them in the right places within a song.

300 US doesn't sound too bad, since i have two other B8s i might as well make it three! I might actually look for second hand ones as well, if they are in good nick you save a bundle, as I did on my ride.

@The - awesome! I can't play blasts at all, I've been playing thrash way too long, my left arm just refuses to go that fast yet, haha. It'll come in time, lets hope!

I have the problem alike with my feet. when I first got doublepedals I learned a fucking weak technique with my heels down and kicking. Few years ago I began to adjust my feet to right technique (heels up, foot horizontally upon the board). But my left foot is freaking killing me. Everytime I go with fast doubling, it rises up from that position and is like 90 degree position from the board. It looks silly, yet it's odd that when I play my left foot like that, right foot tends to tire faster. Yet I try the same position with my right foot, it's so lame. I can't keep to the tempo and it just bounces randomly.

:@

Hehe, we are very alike. I generally don't bother with double kicks much, too overused and I can't do it for shit anyways!

Yah my left foots not too good as well mate!

You need to make sure that your doing the same thing with both feet or your not gonna get anywhere, try playing real slow and paying close attention to what your feet are doing. Are you hitting the pedal in the sweet spot all the time? Are your legs legs nice and relaxed?

Concentrate on getting the motions down at a slow tempo, this will ingrain the motions into your muscle memory and improve your faster playing. The problem with going fast all the time is that you might be adopting poor technique, and this will only ingrain that poor technique into your playing, so slowing down and really getting it perfect is the way to go.

Believe me, I've done it as many wrong techniques as there are.
Ye I've done it at slow tempo and raised the tempo a lil all the time. It works fine until I come to the spot where I can't use my feet as a whole but rather use the ankles. But I'm working on it. :smoke:

I too learned a poor technique when I first started and I am trying to unlearn it. I would start my double bass runs with my right foot, since it easily mimicked the motion I use when keeping time with the hi-hat. However, I can only do power runs like that which are generally slow. Now, when I do fast runs, I start with my right foot but my left will start lagging.

What you have to do is build up your stamina through practice. A friend showed me how to use a metronome and just run patterns in time. Start slower and then speed it up as you become more proficient. Then incorporate the use of a regular pad or snare so you can coordinate your feet and hands. You will eventually develop the muscle endurance you need. And try not to tense up so much, that's what is making your foot hurt.

Ah yes, it's the same for me, my right foot has mastered the ankle motion but leftie isn't quite there yet! I try to isolate that motion at slower speeds and repeat the hell out of it, I've just ordered a foot practice pedal (http://www.hansenfutz.com/) which should help out a lot.

Thankfully, I haven't been ill fated with learning a bad technique early. The only problem I have is I'm sooooooooo dependant on my own pedal so that when I try to play on somebody elses pedal I can't go nearly as fast.

That isn't unusual.

drummers and 'cymbalists' - if anyone is interested in... ; j

SABIAN APX
The new professional cymbal series from award-winning sound innovators SABIAN. Featuring a 'High-Decibel' design that delivers a super-bright, intensely-loud, robust and focused response with extreme cutting power, APX can be heard in any style of music, though SABIAN's Product Specialist Mark Love notes, "Its ideal for cutting through the raging guitars, heavy riffing and high-powered output of hard rock and heavy metal bands."

top'' Drummers already playing APX include:
Ray Luzier (Korn), Neil Sanderson (Three Days Grace), George Kollias (Nile), John Kelly (Type-O Negative), and Rich Beddoe (Finger Eleven).

SABIAN APX - We Break Sound Barriers

Yeah it's quite common, I'm not dependant on my equipment but I am dependant on the set-up, a difference of an inch or two in foot position can completely ruin my double bass ability! Again this is very common.

I was the original drummer in VASARIA (we are on the archives here) and played on our original album for CENTURY MEDIA records. I play that sort of breaky/John Bonham sort of early 70's thing, check my page:

www.myspace.com/scottharrisdrums

Thanks.

So I played my new kit tonight in all it's full glory.

My thoughts:

I really like the sound. I thought, smaller drums, weaker sound, but these things cut. The maple shells resonate nicely, the bass drum has a lot of attack, and the snare is probably the best one I've owned. I used to swear that I would never play a 13" snare but this thing just blasts through anything. I can hear what I am playing much more clearly, as these drums have much more attack. I picked out some flaws in my sticking early on and was able to correct them. The rolls sound so tight on the toms, and because I could hear them so well, I didn't have to use as much force to get that sound out of them.

Complaints- well, I need more variety in my cymbals. Playing all 20" crashes or larger was great when I had a giant dinosaur kit, but now that my drums are fusion-sized, I need a smaller crash and maybe a few FX cymbals. I'm thinking on a 16 or 17" for a fast crash, and maybe a legit 20" crash instead of a ride cymbal. I'm already phasing out heavy crashing on my 21" ride and just, you know, riding on it.

For FX, I know I want a splash and a 9.5" zil bell, and a small 10 or 12" china. My large china, the 22" Lion, might get traded for something with a better-engineered sound. I really like the Sabian Paragon, but it's very expensive. Still, now that I am spending all my extra cash on drum stuff, might as well put it on my wish list. I also want a good set of hi-hat cymbals, I am sick of these cheap slabs I have.

I am at a loss as to what to do with the second floor tom. I currently have it on my left on the other side of my hi-hat, but I pretty much ignored it, or remembered a thud part at the last second. I just can't get used to it there. I may put it on my right. Seeing as my last floor tom was an 18", and these are 14" and 16", I miight be able to play both without having to rotate too far around. I'll see.

Overall I am pleased, my band is writing again, and we all have new equipment. What's not to be happy about?