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Rodman
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:37 am 
 

I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but there's nothing on page 1 so what the hell...

What are the 'classic' albums that don't live up to the hype?

Today I revisited Obituary's Cause of Death for the first time in years after a friend detailed how he was underwhelmed by the band's back catalogue. I couldn't help but agree that COD is totally forgettable. I understand that the slow groove and demonic vocals of John Tardy meant that Obituary were a band that stood out like a sore thumb in a scene led by the frantic fret thrashing of Morbid Angel, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, as well as 2nd tier imitators like Nocturnus and Malevolent Creation, but the fact remains that COD is a soporific plodder with only the briefest flashes of inspiration. I appreciate that they offered a distinct take on first wave American DM, but at this point I feel pretty confident in declaring that Slowly We Rot is the only Obituary you really need.
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:29 am 
 

Cause of Death is my favorite Obituary album, and one of my favorite albums of all time. I don't think there's anything "plodding" about it at all, in fact I think it has some of the best songwriting in all of death metal as well as an extremely dark and disturbing atmosphere - along with one of the best vocal performances in all of death metal, from John Tardy. Then, of course you've got James Murphy's virtuosic lead playing over top of it all...it's a 10/10 masterpiece. And furthermore, Obituary's third and fourth albums ("The End Complete" and "World Demise"), while not quite as dark or evil, are still fantastic and essential for any death metal fan.

Anyway, I can't think of any "classics" I hate in metal, but in terms of rock, for my entire life (literally since elementary school) I have despised both Van Halen and Aerosmith.
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nekrosonic
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:30 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:55 am 
 

Let’s just get this out of the way now - nothing by Sabbath, Priest or Maiden lives anywhere near the hype and praise people lather them in. They each maybe have a couple of songs I truly enjoy and that’s it, otherwise those records are just pop music with distortion.

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HaPoStaPu
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 40
Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:12 am 
 

Not sure about sacred cows but Anthrax only ever had a few good tunes, mostly on Spreading the Disease (maybe some on the first album, can't remember). Not one of my big 4.
Helloween after the first ep and album, just not for me.

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schizoid
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 1546
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:13 am 
 

Rodman wrote:
I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but there's nothing on page 1 so what the hell...


Yes, yes it has....
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:33 am 
 

Isn't it only a sacrifice if you love it?
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DecemberSoul
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 808
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:18 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Isn't it only a sacrifice if you love it?


Agreed, "Slaughtering some holy cows" would seem more appropriate.
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at the gaytes
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:57 am 
 

Left Hand Path. OK, it's a great classic album, but not the flawless masterpiece that a lot of people tend to believe.

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pale_horse
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:36 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:07 am 
 

I agree with everything so far except for the nekrosonic post
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booK_of_blood
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 am
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:30 am 
 

There are so many, one would not know where to begin...But for starters, the only Suffocation albums relevant as far as I'm concerned are the Human Waste EP and Effigy. The rest is garbage.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:52 am 
 

This thread is going to be a comedy gold mine once it starts going. Many of the posts here already have me laughing.

Historically, these kind of threads do extremely horribly. They pop up once or twice a year and *always* devolve into whoever can measure the biggest internet iconoclast e-peen.
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Thexhumed
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Location: Chile
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:04 pm 
 

nekrosonic wrote:
Let’s just get this out of the way now - nothing by Sabbath, Priest or Maiden lives anywhere near the hype and praise people lather them in. They each maybe have a couple of songs I truly enjoy and that’s it, otherwise those records are just pop music with distortion.


I have so many questions
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:07 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
Cause of Death is my favorite Obituary album, and one of my favorite albums of all time. I don't think there's anything "plodding" about it at all, in fact I think it has some of the best songwriting in all of death metal as well as an extremely dark and disturbing atmosphere - along with one of the best vocal performances in all of death metal, from John Tardy. Then, of course you've got James Murphy's virtuosic lead playing over top of it all...it's a 10/10 masterpiece. And furthermore, Obituary's third and fourth albums ("The End Complete" and "World Demise"), while not quite as dark or evil, are still fantastic and essential for any death metal fan.

Anyway, I can't think of any "classics" I hate in metal, but in terms of rock, for my entire life (literally since elementary school) I have despised both Van Halen and Aerosmith.



Yeah, Cause of death is easily the best of that original Florida dm scene, for all the reasons you just named. It's just so fucking awesome to listen to, it's heavy as a sack of bricks, and catchy too.

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booK_of_blood
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:10 pm 
 

I absolutely support the idea that the best, most original, catchiest, heaviest and darkest Obituary album is their debut. A masterpiece of filth like no other that has easily stood the test of time.

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ingmar birdman
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Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:23 am
Posts: 146
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:13 pm 
 

Since this thread is all about making outrageous proclamations, I'm agreeing with the poster above who said Left Hand Path and extending that sentiment to all classic Swedish death metal. While I can appreciate songs from Dismember, Grave, Entombed, etc. that style of music overall is dull as dirt to me. In my opinion those albums just lack the atmosphere of greater OSDM albums -- Altars of Madness, Onward to Golgotha, Nespithe, Dawn of Possession, To the Depths in Degradation, etc.

I've made an effort to listen to all the classic albums and many of the beloved demos and it really does nothing for me. The only Swedish OSDM bands I can really appreciate are Gorement, maybe a bit of Unleashed and I guess Vomitory if they count.

But I'm going to relisten to Like an Everflowing Stream right now to see if I can change my own mind.

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booK_of_blood
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:20 pm 
 

ingmar birdman wrote:
Altars of Madness, Onward to Golgotha, Nespithe, Dawn of Possession, To the Depths in Degradation, etc.



As far as I'm concerned, Entombed's 'Clandestine' pretty much obliterates all of the above mentioned albums, what makes your point not necessarily valid.

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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:22 pm 
 

booK_of_blood wrote:
I absolutely support the idea that the best, most original, catchiest, heaviest and darkest Obituary album is their debut. A masterpiece of filth like no other that has easily stood the test of time.



COD just feels more complete to me. Slowly We Rot is a collection of great songs, but Cause of Death feels like a death metal opus. I think it needs to be listened in full to get the effect, and I don't think listening to the songs out of order would help, unlike SWR where it doesn't matter as much. Not to mention, the songs are flat out BETTER, the solos of course are better, even the productions amazing. (Probably Scott Burns' greatest hour), ultimately it's one of the greatest metal albums ever created.

I love Certain Swedish death metal classics (Carnage, Nihilist, FUCK Entombed) but I always feel that it's on the lower echelon relative to alot of the dm coming out in those days.

I'm just gonna say that I feel that Like an Everflowing Stream is merely a cool little album, but no masterpiece.

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TheMysticWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 am
Posts: 629
Location: CA, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:29 pm 
 

Rodman wrote:
...I feel pretty confident in declaring that Slowly We Rot is the only Obituary you really need.

I've always considered that album to be garbage compared to CoD. JAMES FUCKING MURPHY.

I might love death metal, but Cancer is fucking boring and I am not hyped at all about their upcoming shows. Might need to hear Death Shall Rise again to defend this statement.

Along with this, I never understood the hype or felt anything from Exciter at all. Heavy Metal Maniac is nothing special.

Altars of Madness shouldn't qualify for being death metal: it's a great album, but where is the heaviness? It's fast as FUCK but even Terrorizer is more chaotic and heavier.

Thy Shrine wrote:
I'm just gonna say that I feel that Like an Everflowing Stream is merely a cool little album, but no masterpiece.

I agree with you completely here.

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at the gaytes
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Bangladesh
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:03 pm 
 

TheMysticWombat wrote:

Altars of Madness shouldn't qualify for being death metal: it's a great album, but where is the heaviness? It's fast as FUCK but even Terrorizer is more chaotic and heavier.



Hum... what?

ingmar birdman wrote:
Since this thread is all about making outrageous proclamations, I'm agreeing with the poster above who said Left Hand Path and extending that sentiment to all classic Swedish death metal. While I can appreciate songs from Dismember, Grave, Entombed, etc. that style of music overall is dull as dirt to me. In my opinion those albums just lack the atmosphere of greater OSDM albums -- Altars of Madness, Onward to Golgotha, Nespithe, Dawn of Possession, To the Depths in Degradation, etc.

I've made an effort to listen to all the classic albums and many of the beloved demos and it really does nothing for me. The only Swedish OSDM bands I can really appreciate are Gorement, maybe a bit of Unleashed and I guess Vomitory if they count.

But I'm going to relisten to Like an Everflowing Stream right now to see if I can change my own mind.


Like an Everflowing Stream is easily the superior album, simply because it have better songwriting and memorable riffs overall. It's like comparing Nespithe with it's inferior clones, while Nespithe is extremely bizarre and twisted, with a sense of songwriting that is top-notch and full of tension, bands inspired by Demilich tend to make songs that are only extremely bizarre and twisted.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:13 pm 
 

Who would have thought that a thread with the singular premise of tearing down extremely well liked albums would produce such amazing and wonderful debates and arguments over whose subjective opinion is better or more correct?
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:25 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
Who would have thought that a thread with the singular premise of tearing down extremely well liked albums would produce such amazing and wonderful debates and arguments over whose subjective opinion is better or more correct?



I mean, I think we'd all rather read the debates than read your drivel about how said debates are beneath you and worthless

Honestly, never understood why these unpopular opinion threads tend to be hated upon. It's always fun to read people being hyperbolic about albums they dislike. Much more interesting than people complimenting the same thing over and over.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:32 pm 
 

Yeah, except there's no actual debating of any substance going on, just finger pointing and "no u". Which is exactly what happens every time these threads are created. Of course you wouldn't know anything about that judging from your level of activity on the forum, but if you did then you would quickly see why my "drivel" is totally on point here. I would love to be proven wrong about this kind of thread but it's never happened before and I don't see it happening now.

When the discussion itself is framed from the very beginning to be one of adversarial nature, what else can you expect?
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Thy Shrine
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:41 pm 
 

From what I've read from this thread, it has been entirely reasonable discussion over classic albums and people's varying opinions on them.

What does my forum history have to do with anything? I'm on this website constantly. I don't always post here, but I read the shit out of many threads here, including ones from long before I had an account here.

I just don't see the point of popping in here every 5 or so posts talking about how these threads are doomed to fail, they're just bickering, or whatever other complaint. They can be very fun to read and contribute to.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:42 pm 
 

Because they spawn endless one-upsmanship and ridiculous hyperbolic statements just to get a rise out of people, that's why. I could show you several examples of this *same exact* thread being made year after year here, and it always ends the same; locked for the reasons I stated. It's why we don't do list threads here, or various other types of threads that are proven to be terrible ideas.
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HaPoStaPu
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
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Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:46 pm 
 

I was tempted to say In the Nightside Eclipse as I basically preferred all other Emperor albums to it but I just caved in and bought it, after so many years. I want to believe.


Last edited by HaPoStaPu on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:47 pm 
 

I think the fundamental difference in our opinion is that I kind of enjoy when it gets super hyperbolic, people are just having these ridiculous opinions, and pissing people off. It just amuses me, but I feel like not many other people on the board would agree with that sentiment

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:50 pm 
 

"Black metal" is not really metal at all. It's far closer to punk/goth in approach, aesthetics, and the skill required to perform it.
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booK_of_blood
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:31 pm 
 

It's also a matter of perspective; in which era one had been growing and whether or not one had encountered said albums in real time. For instance, one who had listened to the Gorguts debut back then upon its release in real time and thought it was a really boring, uninspired album -- is much, much different in perspective from someone who has only discovered that album 5 years ago, revers and regards this album highly because it has reached some 'legendary' status and not necessarily due to its actual musical merits.
Fair comparisons of a certain album or era would have to come from people who share similar musical history as fans i.e. same age, same knowledge and same perspective but from different angles...

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Opus
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:42 pm 
 

Slayer sucks! So does Metallica. And Exodus, Overkill, Testament etc. Megadeth sucks a bit less!

Let's not take into account that I simply don't enjoy thrash. No, these are my opinions and they need to be heard!
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Mass Suicide
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:32 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:48 pm 
 

Thy Shrine wrote:
true_death wrote:
Cause of Death is my favorite Obituary album, and one of my favorite albums of all time. I don't think there's anything "plodding" about it at all, in fact I think it has some of the best songwriting in all of death metal as well as an extremely dark and disturbing atmosphere - along with one of the best vocal performances in all of death metal, from John Tardy. Then, of course you've got James Murphy's virtuosic lead playing over top of it all...it's a 10/10 masterpiece. And furthermore, Obituary's third and fourth albums ("The End Complete" and "World Demise"), while not quite as dark or evil, are still fantastic and essential for any death metal fan.


Yeah, Cause of death is easily the best of that original Florida dm scene, for all the reasons you just named. It's just so fucking awesome to listen to, it's heavy as a sack of bricks, and catchy too.


The first two Obituary are absolutely essential DM albums. Each one has its distinct qualities, absolutely nothing wrong with them.

I disagree with "The End Complete" and "World Demise", though. I always felt that TEC was some sort of "compromise" between SWR and COD, but somehow lacked the best of both worlds. Not a bad album, but simply not really entertaining. And "World Demise" I remember as just fucking terrible, with all those typical mid-90s groove influences. Definitively no DM classic in my book!

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Thiestru
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm 
 

I have no interest in 'sacrificing sacred cows', but I will say that I've always thought 'Clandestine' was a better album than 'Left Hand Path'. It's more consistent, and just plain fun. 'Left Hand Path' suffers from First Song Syndrome, in which the opening track dwarfs all the rest of the album. (If you want some other examples of this, see: 'Bleed' by Angel Dust and 'Death or Glory' by Running Wild. Those both have absolutely amazing opening songs, and then the rest of the album feels like an afterthought.)
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blackmantram
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:36 pm 
 

Wow, what a great idea for a thread, this has totally not been done to death and without any sense of purpose other than stating your shitty pointless unpopular opinion before... Wow.

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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:50 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
I...First Song Syndrome, in which the opening track dwarfs all the rest of the album. (If you want some other examples of this, see: ...'Death or Glory' by Running Wild. Those both have absolutely amazing opening songs, and then the rest of the album feels like an afterthought.)

Can't even comprehend how someone writes off the rest of that album, especially "Battle of Waterloo".

Otherwise, I'm not going to go and say that Altars isn't death metal like that other guy did in this thread, but I think it flat out sucks. Alright, guess that's it for this thread.
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:54 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
Thiestru wrote:
I...First Song Syndrome, in which the opening track dwarfs all the rest of the album. (If you want some other examples of this, see: ...'Death or Glory' by Running Wild. Those both have absolutely amazing opening songs, and then the rest of the album feels like an afterthought.)

Can't even comprehend how someone writes off the rest of that album, especially "Battle of Waterloo".

Otherwise, I'm not going to go and say that Altars isn't death metal like that other guy did in this thread, but I think it flat out sucks. Alright, guess that's it for this thread.


I don't write it off. It's just that 'Riding the Storm' is by far my favorite RW song, so anything after it is bound to come up short.
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raumr
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:08 pm 
 

TheMysticWombat wrote:

Altars of Madness shouldn't qualify for being death metal: it's a great album, but where is the heaviness? It's fast as FUCK but even Terrorizer is more chaotic and heavier.


I don't even like death metal, and that triggered me :snipe:
That album is heavy as fuck!

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 1497
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:18 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
'Left Hand Path' suffers from First Song Syndrome, in which the opening track dwarfs all the rest of the album. (If you want some other examples of this, see: 'Bleed' by Angel Dust and 'Death or Glory' by Running Wild. Those both have absolutely amazing opening songs, and then the rest of the album feels like an afterthought.)


not commenting on those albums, but i think slaughter of the soul is the worst offender of that type
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booK_of_blood
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 am
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:25 pm 
 

joppek wrote:

not commenting on those albums, but i think slaughter of the soul is the worst offender of that type


And one of the worst "metal" albums ever created, in general.

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Opus
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:21 pm 
 

You're funny!
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:30 pm 
 

booK_of_blood wrote:
joppek wrote:

not commenting on those albums, but i think slaughter of the soul is the worst offender of that type


And one of the worst "metal" albums ever created, in general.


I'll agree that it is the most overrated, but it does have a couple of good tracks.
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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:18 pm 
 

Mass Suicide wrote:
I disagree with "The End Complete" and "World Demise", though. I always felt that TEC was some sort of "compromise" between SWR and COD, but somehow lacked the best of both worlds. Not a bad album, but simply not really entertaining. And "World Demise" I remember as just fucking terrible, with all those typical mid-90s groove influences. Definitively no DM classic in my book!


Yeah, I see what you mean. I agree about The End Complete more or less, though it doesn't detract from my enjoyment at all. World Demise does have some groove/hardcore tendencies, but I think it works for Obituary's core sound as their music was always based on groove, in a sense. It's groovy but still pretty riff-oriented and nowhere near as dated as something like Grave's "Hating Life", for example.
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