The thing is those hyper-hybrids are nowhere near as popular/defined as things with proper nomenclature
if they were then a term would be coined
theres no reason to come up with a myriad of titles for these microgenres if no one knows they even exist in the first place so your best bet is really is stringing together a bunch of adjectives black/death/thrash/sludge etc.

If they cover that much ground, just call them metal.

Most of the bands with that tag (Melvins, Boris, Violet Cold) have non-metal albums as well, though. It's not that their style cohesively integrates all those different genres into one sound at once.

So I decided to make this question here because most of the times my questions are seen as stupid. Anyway, I wanted to know if it's really O.K. to keep calling Make Them Suffer a symphonic deathcore band since it's getting more progressive with each release. They were good symphonic deathcore in Lord of Woe, in Neverbloom they were still deathcore but with some metalcore, then Let Me In was too metalcore, and the only thing I'd really call deathcore from Old Souls is Requiem. From this new album they have transformed more into a progressive metalcore band.
I'm not saying they're bad, just that they're not deathcore at all anymore. Do you guys think this is correct or I'm wrong once more?

With so much cross-pollination going on nowadays, are we always going to see new genre names or will it be multiple hyphenated levels of sub-sub-sub-genres? How deep into the minutiae can we go before it's the metal equivalent of examining navel lint?

Is there really a difference between atmospheric brutal technical death and atmospheric melodic technical death? And does it really matter what those differences are?

How far can the envelope be stretched? If I want to hear to avant-garde or free jazz, why does it need to be dressed up in leather and corpse paint? I've listened to stuff from Cage and Coltrane and Branca (for example); their music doesn't really hold my interest.

I was raised on rock and R&B. The more extreme metal becomes, the further underground it goes; it's further removed from basic rock conventions.

Will metal come full circle and will rock's traditional roots dynamics of blues and country eventually be reincorporated? Blues metal anyone? How about Country metal?

I was talking about band line-ups on another metal forum. This guy was arguing that line-ups are no different from sports teams and that no member is truly irreplaceable, while I stated that a band is a musical ensemble with specific members or it's just a corporate logo and an applause machine.

With the recent rise of Ghost (BC) and Babymetal, it took me a while to see a connection. We used to have concept albums, now we have concept bands. Are they just a more commercialized version of GWAR and Slipknot? Are they like KISS just taken to the next logical step?

Ozzy, Iommi, Geezer, and Ward will eventually pass away. Would we then be able to accept four random guys out there recording and touring as Black Sabbath (no matter how kick@$$ the music might be)?

Hope I didn't go too far off topic...

blues metal essentially is what Eyehategod is.

Well the last major new genres that came into being would be folk metal as like korpiklaani and such and the whole atmospheric/post-sludge thing. A new genre needs to be quite distinct from other genres not be a clear mix of genre x with genre y like with post-black or modern dissonant death/black. We do not call death metal extreme thrash metal do we?

I seem to recall that both death metal and black metal got their names from songs. I don't know that they thought they were creating a new sub-genre name when they wrote them.

That's not death metal, nor is it the first song by that name. A number of bands used the term, in writing or lyrics, and over time some of them evolved the idea into a distinct style of music.

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/H ... etal/45188
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/P ... 4zxzswzzsz
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/D ... etal/35807

I suppose Venom were the first band in metal to both give a name to their style *and* have it catch on, though. I think that has more to do with the ideology behind it though, because fortunately "body rock" and "athletic" rock didn't catch on.

Not yet any ways...

Is Viking Metal an actual genre? All I hear in it is something along the likes of Blackened Folk Metal or something. "Viking" suggests a theme, and themes don't make genres. Music does. Why does Blackened Folk get called Viking Metal but say, Blackened Death Metal doesn't get called Hell Metal or Blackened Grind doesn't get called Murder Metal or some shit?

And the fact that a band can be called "Viking Metal" and not even have Viking themes is even more asinine. If there's no Viking theme in it, how is "Viking" even relavent?

It's a real genre that refers to a particular style of music, not simply themes. It was named so because it was pioneered by a number of Nordic bands that had Viking themes, as well as other themes related to Nordic pagan cultures.

You could argue that death metal is similarly named in that it suggests a certain aesthetic and lyrical theme, although bands who play in that style with different themes are still by all means part of the genre. Of course, Vikings is a much narrower topic than death. It could well be called blackened folk metal in many cases, but that's not very catchy, is it? Most of these genre labels are created or at very least popularised by journalists and writers. Sexier names tend to stick.

Viking metal is the fusion of 80s epic metal a la manowar with black metal. While most of viking metal bands also add folk elements its definitely possible to write a viking metal song with out overt folk elements. This is what Bathory did at least.

What constitutes as melodic black metal according to this site? Where exactly do 'we' draw the line between standard norsecore & meloblack? Most black metal, to me at least, seems like it has this intrinsic melancholic melody underneath the predominant tremolo riffing.

Most death metal utilizes chunky groove (esp BDM) & crawling doomy/sludgy riffing to balance out the savagery. In black metal, however, alot of bands tend to employ these repetitive, hypnotic & as mentioned earlier, melancholic melodic ambience/riffs for the said purpose. What I mean by this analogy is that in death metal the line seems much more clearer. Nobody will consider something like Mayhem or Marduk melodic but what about stuff like Drudkh, Mgla, Batushka & loads of other Eastern European bands? Since this is not confusing enough where does this put most DSBM?

Also, isn't melodic thrash just power and/or speed metal?

I hope I articulated my questions well enough. Thanks in advance for any constructive replies.

first of all standard norsecore = black metal equivalent of death/grind. So stuff like Panzer Division Marduk and other black metal that tries to be v fast.

Melodic black metal can be just black metal thats more melodic like the first Sacramentum album it can also be the black metal thats a bit gothicy and more keyboardy than normal without being full on gothic/black. The line is however blurred and not always used very consistently. Quite a lot of melodic black gets called melodic black/death or normal black. Katavasia is called melodic black on the site while its classic Greek black metal throughout.

You should see thrash as a spectrum on one side we got the melodic side with bands like Megadeth, in the middle we got Slayer and the far end of it we get bands like kreator and demolition hammer.

So, I was listening to japanese Omnyo-za today (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/%E ... A%A7/18168) which are tagged as heavy/folk metal and being in the mood for some folky stuff I was hoping to hear actual japanese folk in their music. I'm a huge fan of Gargoyle, also from japan, which are known for their folk influences (at least in their early albums) despite not being tagged as such at their MA page and seeing Omnyo-za actually tagged as a folk band I was expecting them to sound at least very similar, but apart from some flutes in what appears to be their most well known song they play mostly j-pop influenced heavy metal/hard rock with little to no folk whatsoever (which is not bad of course, I actually liked them a lot despite not being what I was looking for). Maybe am I missing something very important about the "folk" tag here and it's mostly based on their image and lyrical themes than their music?

Could someone explain Dark Metal to me, I couldn't help but notice some entries on metal archives come up as
purely "dark metal", I remember Years back hearing of the genre title but
too this day I can't find anything on the genre in general.
Is it one of those made up genre titles like "pirate metal" or is something
legitimate but really obscure.
But every time I search for Dark Metal bands I seem to just get either
black metal, goth metal (which actually I also have a hard time figuring
out) or melodic death metal, or a mixture of the three. Sometimes it looks
purely atmospheric music with hardly any metal influence.
I heard Bethlehem and Agaloch are supposed to be examples of Dark Metal but
I still don't hear anything sounding like a unique sub genre. The closest
thing I thought sounded like it's own genre was the band Equimanthorn, but
even then...
I don't know, for me I always thought a metal sub genre needs to have a
easily identifiable riff structure that can clearly distinguish it from
another sub genre, like it's easy to tell a speed metal riff from a death
metal riff. Otherwise the subgenre could just be a thing you tag onto
something like the word "melodic" or "technical".
Anyway can somebody explain what Dark Metal is? Any pure examples or the
genre I can listen to(with vocals preferred)? Also can somebody give an
examples of what a typical dark metal and typical goth metal riff is
supposed to sound like? Thanks for any responses"

Norsecore comment: No. Nothing to do with death/grind.

I wouldn't say melodic thrash sounds anything like power or speed metal. You could argue some bands called melodic thrash may be power-thrash but that's not every case.
I'd say Hexen is a good example of a melodic thrash metal band...I guess, but it certainly does not sound anything like speed metal. Take Risk's Roadwar, Accept's Fast as a Shark, Living Death's Killing Machine, or SDI's Megamosh, those are prime examples of speed metal that don't sound anything like Hexen. If it's melodic thrash it should still have the technicality and brutality in thrash that differentiates it from Speed or Power but just more melodic.
Now on the other hand, technical speed metal sort of turns into thrash if not properly kept in a less brutal fashion, but adding technicality in speed metal will undoubtedly push it into thrash, like Toxik is considered "technical speed-thrash".
I'm probably wrong on a few things here, so don't be afraid to call me out on anything.

Thank you for the responses guys.

@goregoose: Regarding your question about dark metal I think it's more of a vague umbrella term that didn't really catch on. I've heard stuff ranging from black/doom to industrial to Katatonia & gothic metal described as such, much like you have stated. This site used to have that as a descriptor but eventually it was phased out. Now I'm a fairly new member here so I don't really know the details on that particular matter.

as from this thread: https://www.metal-archives.com/board/vi ... 2&start=40

Besides Norsecore being a ridiculous name. No black metal is affiliated with death/grind.

The only "dark metal" band I personally can recall defining themselves as such, are Aeternus - I suppose, to underline a tight blend of black and death metal.
Another one might be Rotting Christ. In Sakis's accent: "Black metalʲ, death metalʲ, dark metalʲ... BUT metalʲ"

100% agreed that "norsecore" is a totally stupid subgenre name that shouldn't be used by any metalhead of good sense... It would involve that the bands tagged "norsecore" are not metal at all, and only come from Scandinavia? What about a Chilean band that would play exactly the same music than any Scandinavian "norsecore"? It just doesn't make sense.

But if there was such a thing as "norsecore", i agree it should be the black metal equivalent of "death/grind": faster black metal with more extreme hardcore punk influences than average black metal.

Anyway, it questions how much black metal is in itself a metal/punk crossover genre. Something underestimated or even taboo, i guess...

Oh yeah. Djent is a stupid genre.

It's only a genre in the same sense as slam. Reputable sources call slam brutal death metal, and likewise djent bands are usually labelled as some flavour of modern progressive metal/rock.

Although, as a genre, slam is at least quite narrow, whereas djent is completely useless. It would encapsulate bands that are essentially syncopated deathcore with 8-string guitars, as well bands like Atmospheres or even Leprous. Not very helpful!

Meshuggah was never called Djent. Besides, the name is fucking ridiculous.

Norsecore is a pejorative.

Djent is often a fairly accurate term, used by many of the artists, too.

Just like suicidal black metal. Which is black metal, with a lame add-on. Djent has been around for AGES and now they name it after the sound a chug makes?

The biggest load of bullshit I see around here a lot is this "Black Metal/Depressive Rock" genre tag.
Tell me what is "Depressive Rock", what bands play "Depressive Rock", where is this scene for "Depressive Rock" bands.
I've tried looking everywhere for anything on this mysterious "Depressive Rock" genre and I can't find anything, nothing on rateyourmusic, wikipedia, discogs or anything.

The only time I hear this not in regards to Black Metal is Katatonia. (Although completely irrelevant Katatonia did wear corpsepaint after their first album and were influenced by bm on their first album, there's some funny interviews in this brief-1993 era "STUPID HUMAN FUCKERS" go look for some scans)

A lot of these bands sorta remind me of the early emo bands Rites of Spring and Embrace sometimes even Mineral.

I think; especially with all these "post-black" bands taking influences from skramz/old screamo we should drop this bullshit and get our head out our ass and call it by it really is, that is Emo.

"Oh no not emo, Not Panic! at the Disco, Bullet for my Valentine, Blood on THe Dancefloor Nonononono we can't have that."

Those bands are about as tr00 em0 as Cradle of Filth - Thornography is Black Metal.

It's not the mid/late 00s anymore and those bands aren't relevant anymore, Emo has existed since the 80s.

What is Deutschrock and Deutschpunk? From some cursory searching on rateyourmusic, the most I got was that Deutschpunk can be analogous to Hardcore Punk at times and the lyrics are highly politically oriented (especially in leftism) whereas Deutschrock is much lighter in sound and the lyrics can be about any subject matter. How is it different from regular German Rock or Punk? Apart from language, how is it different from their Anglo counterparts?

Deutshcrock and Deutschpunk is almost the same than Balochrock and Balochpunk, but one is played in Deutschland and the other in Balochestan (both parts: Iranian and Pakistani).

these are just german names for german punk and german rock, nothing else.

Ridiculous

Chill out !

I know this is a really old post, but I didn't want to ask about the "melodic groove metal" genre tag without referencing the previous conversation on it. Can someone give an example of a band that fits the sub-genre best? I can kind of see why 8 Foot Sativa gets the tag, but there isn't a lot of melody in the songs I have heard from them. And bands like The Unguided and Sonic Syndicate aren't very groovy at all. I get that they aren't death metal either, but if anything the riffs are based on rock/-core, not groove. It just kind of seems like an arbitrary designation.

its a thing we struggle a bit with because people just call a lot of it melodic death metal while the musical elements of that genre are actually long gone. A clear example would be like clayman era in flames, they took the earlier melodic death metal style melodies but in a more groove metal format. It is less recognizeable as such because it doesnt have a lot of the other elements common in groove metal.

Just as melodic death metal became its own thing, melodic groove metal became its own thing. Harmonies often bury the guitar work in recordings, but you can get a better idea of the groove riffs from live videos. For example:

In Flames - Pinball Map
https://youtu.be/pyXuhyJhrSY?t=24

Soilwork - Rejection Role
https://youtu.be/77-kJpB8hyY?t=85

8 Foot Sativa definitely have some awful non-melodic braindead chuggy groove metal, but they also have some stuff like Sleepwalkers which is like nu-In Flames/Soilwork without a penchant for making harmonies in the studio. That sounds a bit more like those bands do live. Much of Sonic Syndicate's music is definitely rock/core based, beyond the debut.

Yeah that makes sense. Seems like this style inevitably leads bands into the alternative metal/rock style that ultimately creates bands like Cyhra.

White metal.