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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:20 am 
 

I have been adding cover art to albums lately, and I have run across a number of releases marked as singles that do not seem to have ever been released as such. A few have, but many seem to be added based on some band member saying "hey, here's a new song from our album" on their Facebook page or something. Shouldn't users have to offer some kind of proof that a single is actually a release?

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TheStormIRide
Jesuscop

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
Posts: 1735
Location: Honorary Indonesia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:41 am 
 

If these tracks appear to be a "hey we have a new song from the album" and it doesn't have cover art that differs from the actual album, flag a report. A lot of times these singles are valid, if they are distributed as a single with its own cover art.

A notable example of a single released on its own for an upcoming album:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ha ... ing/169620

Notice how it has its own cover art and was distributed as a single.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:15 pm 
 

Ok. Here's a fun twist - what to do about "video" singles? The band calls it a "single", but really it's just a video on their website, or a link to their Youtube channel. Do those count?

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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 2292
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:04 pm 
 

No, because that'd be a streaming-only release, and that's not considered valid.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:49 pm 
 

Aha. Well, get ready to get bombarded with reports. Every time I see a "single" that's just a video, with a "release date" that's just the day they posted the video, it's getting reported. And there are a lot.

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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 2292
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:35 pm 
 

Hit us with your best shot :D
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I've just seen Sharknado 2. What a fucking masterpiece of stupidity!
PhilosophicalFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:19 am 
 

So what is this, exactly?

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/F% ... ned/540775

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theunrelentingattack
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:14 am 
 

it's a broken link to something that no longer exists in our database. I removed it. If you find others, just open reports going forward now that you have the definition of what a single is to us.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:30 am 
 

I just had a report rejected (only one, granted) so maybe I'm not clear in my understanding. Or you guys aren't on the same page. Though I tend to bet on you.

So, a single is:

- A track (with maybe a b-side) released independently of the album it's on
- Even if it's just a downloadable thing
- But it must have it's own artwork, different than the album cover

A single is not:

- A video only
- A song that even the band themselves call a "single", if it does not meet the above criteria
- A track that is available for download, independent from the full album, but doesn't have it's own artwork. Like this one: https://sensorium1.bandcamp.com/album/the-art-of-living
- A single track that lives somewhere by itself, mysteriously alone, on someplace like Soundcloud.

Any comments?

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 8486
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:23 pm 
 

GTog wrote:
I just had a report rejected (only one, granted) so maybe I'm not clear in my understanding. Or you guys aren't on the same page. Though I tend to bet on you.

So, a single is:

- A track (with maybe a b-side) released independently of the album it's on
- Even if it's just a downloadable thing
- But it must have it's own artwork, different than the album cover

A single is not:

- A video only
- A song that even the band themselves call a "single", if it does not meet the above criteria
- A track that is available for download, independent from the full album, but doesn't have it's own artwork. Like this one: https://sensorium1.bandcamp.com/album/the-art-of-living
- A single track that lives somewhere by itself, mysteriously alone, on someplace like Soundcloud.

Any comments?


Well, I'm not quite sure where you are getting the idea that digital singles are required to have unique cover art. That might be a carryover from a more antiquated permutation of the guidelines that could honestly use another look.

A single (or any release for that matter) cannot be streaming-only, this is why Youtube videos are not valid digital releases for obvious reasons. BUT, if the band put a sanctioned download link in the notes of the video, then it would work. See where I'm going with this?

The downloads must be in full, not just a bunch of scattered tracks like on Myspace. We are trying to maintain some rigidity to this definition so it actually means something. And yes, even if the band calls it a single, that doesn't necessarily make it a valid release. Many bands release stuff on Youtube that doesn't fit our release conditions.

I think you meant to poast (post) this link: https://sensorium1.bandcamp.com/track/haunting-verity

And you are wrong, that is a valid digital single since it was released a month before the album proper.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:03 pm 
 

Quote:
Well, I'm not quite sure where you are getting the idea that digital singles are required to have unique cover art. That might be a carryover from a more antiquated permutation of the guidelines that could honestly use another look.


TheStormIRide suggested as much, in response to the original post.

Quote:
A single (or any release for that matter) cannot be streaming-only, this is why Youtube videos are not valid digital releases for obvious reasons. BUT, if the band put a sanctioned download link in the notes of the video, then it would work. See where I'm going with this?


I hope so. So I should check out the video links to see if there's a pointer to a place where the song can be downloaded or physically obtained.

Quote:
The downloads must be in full, not just a bunch of scattered tracks like on Myspace. We are trying to maintain some rigidity to this definition so it actually means something.


Ok, so wait. If the video does point to a place where you can dl the song, but it turns out to be a page where you can dl a few others too, then it's not a single? Has to be just that one song by itself? Not being dense here, though it may appear that way.

Quote:
I think you meant to poast (post) this link: https://sensorium1.bandcamp.com/track/haunting-verity

And you are wrong, that is a valid digital single since it was released a month before the album proper.


So it's not the artwork thing. It's the release date? If a band releases four songs one at a time over a period of a week, then later puts them all on a demo and releases that too, then they have 4 singles + 1 demo?

By the way, if unique artwork is not really required for singles, then your "albums without artwork" queue is never going to get cleaned up. You may also get cases of people just adding the album artwork to all the singles.

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Azmodes
Est un Satananas

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:05 pm 
 

I was asked by Diamhea to comment on this, but like many discography issues arising from the ephemeral, fluid nature of digital stuff, this is a confounding issue and I don't have a definite, probably not even particularly useful answer for you as of now (shocker). Practise used to be that digital singles require unique cover art, IIRC, but that's arguably misguided and no longer followed (it does wonders for legitimising a single, though). Nevertheless, a digital single should be, at the very least:
  • Available for official, public download
  • Referred to as a separate, semi-autonomous release, not some puzzle piece "subordinated" to a future album (I wouldn't treat things like bands posting one download link for a song from a demo each day as valid singles; however, that doesn't mean "teaser singles" for an upcoming release are automatically invalid)
  • Clearly singled out (huh), treated and presented as such, and not just a random new track you have to dig out from a list of songs (explicitly treated by the band as a separate element of their discography, ideally; not something like "hey we just recorded a new song, check it out here: *link to Reverbnation song list*)

Consider that a first attempt at a list of criteria, a list that may be subject to elaboration and expansion. I suppose first and foremost here are download option and presentation/intent on the band's part. Lastly, use common sense, ask yourself: "Is this a single release, or a single track?" That may not always lead to a straightforward answer, but it should help.

In the meantime, if you're unsure about adding a single, you should ask in this thread first. Similarly, don't go on any deletion report rampages, unless it's something really obvious (ex. streaming-only).

GTog wrote:
By the way, if unique artwork is not really required for singles, then your "albums without artwork" queue is never going to get cleaned up.

Well, not everything in there is supposed to get dealt with. Obviously, albums without actual covers exist. It's still a useful list.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 672
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:01 am 
 

Now, this can't possibly be a single, can it?

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ci ... ate/543710

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Azmodes
Est un Satananas

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 8945
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:03 am 
 

Correct. Deleted and user notified.
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