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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:26 am 
 

Meh. They have some good riffs to be sure, but most of their songs don't have nearly enough variation. Jon is a great singer and Cris is a great lead guitarist, but I think they really would have benefited from some more input in the songwriting department. On the whole I find Savatage a mediocre band elevated to decent by the singing & guitar solos. Highly overrated overall.
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Rocka_Rollas
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:49 am 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Are there more albums like Warlord's The Holy Empire? : book-like epic heavy/power metal?

I like Slough Feg's Traveller, or BG's Nightfall.. well enough. They are good concept albums. Warlord's production, however, reminds me of holding the book itself. The epic heavy/early power architecture, choral synths, and unfolding thematic transitions combine in the vintage appeal of the experience of reading. Rocking is important, of course ("Kill Zone" rolls over things), but comprehensive experience is better.

thanks.


You might not be expecting it from Rocka Rollas but our fifth album Last Days Of Light (predicted to be released 2015) is very Nightfall inspired ;) None of our earlier "speed metal fun" is to be found. Some might not like that change in sound but for me it's just natural progress and I think it will shine through that I put way more heart and effort into that rather than songs with "metal" in the title haha.
So while I don't have anything to show I hope you have something to look forward to now ;)

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Jophelerx
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:56 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
HOTMK is a U.S. Power metal masterpiece. The musicianship and songwriting is great.

Joph, what power metal albums do you think have better riffs than this one?


Helstar's 3rd and 4th albums, Omen's first three, FW's second and third, Griffin's debut, Liege Lord's discography, Crimson Glory's first two, Cauldron Born's discography, Virgin Steele's "classic five", Blind Guardian's power metal albums, Crescent Shield's discography, Distant Thunder's album, Destiny's End's second album, Matthias Steele's album...need I continue? :-D

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:18 pm 
 

I like pretty much all the ones you listed but would strongly disagree that VS, DISTANT THUNDER, CRESCENT SHIELD, LIEGE LORD, MATTHIAS STEELE, or OMEN had riffs anywhere as good as HOTMK.
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colin040
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:27 pm 
 

Also regarding the Zack Stevens era: I like ''Edge of Thorns'' (the song) but that's about it. :p

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VirginSteele_Helstar
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:26 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:59 pm 
 

Pretty much agree with Joph.

Post-Criss Savatage is too cleanly produced for me. I prefer the last record where Jon resumed full on vocal duties to the Zakk albums apart from maybe Edge of Thorns which is a legit heavy/power record. The rest tend to dwell more on the progressive, orchestral aspect but there's not a lot of fire in the riffing.

My classic Savatage records are Sirens, Hall of the Mountain King and Gutter Ballet.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:15 pm 
 

I'm not talking about any other albums other than HOTMK. I don't see how someone can fault the musicianship or the riffing on that disc.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:17 pm 
 

You like HotMK more than Virgin Steele and early Omen? Jesus fuck man, that's pretty nutty. Those are some of the greatest albums ever. Whatever, to each their own.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:21 pm 
 

Savatage is on the same level as those bands for me; I'd probably say VS and Omen are better overall, by a little bit, but I don't think that means Savatage's riffs are mediocre. All the bands we're currently talking about are good. I see where FSM is coming from on Savatage, not so much you though...haha. Oh well. I'd take a good Savatage album just the same as I'd take one from VS, Omen, Helstar, etc. It's all classic shit for me.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:24 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
You like HotMK more than Virgin Steele and early Omen?


Absolutely. Not even close. That's probably one of the reasons SAVATAGE were about 500 times more popular than those bands. Their songwriting and their riffs ... especially on that particular break-through album. I would even say Jon's vocals were better (at the very least more memorable in terms of vocal hooks).

OMEN was fun when I saw them live in 2002 (?) at the Classic Metalfest in Kalamazoo. They had the singer from PHANTOM-X at the time.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:30 pm 
 

Popular =/= good, we're not talking about record sales anyway since quality of the song writing doesn't have anything to do with that. You should know that being in Cauldron Born now who's also much much much better than Savatage. Virgin Steele destroys everything Savatage ever did and "Battle Cry" is perhaps the best USPM album ever.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:41 pm 
 

I agree that CAULDRON BORN overall is better than SAVATAGE and I would've said that before I had the honor of working with them. :)

I'm not saying that popular = good. I'm saying musical quality is one factor that makes a traditional metal band popular in the metal scene.

I don't think "Battle Cry" is anywhere near as good as early FATES WARNING or HELSTAR, just to name a few. Certainly take the vocals off and it's not as good. I try to take all the instruments into consideration.
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Grave_Wyrm
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:33 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Grave_Wyrm wrote:
more albums like Warlord's The Holy Empire? : book-like epic heavy/power metal?


Lordian Guard

Martiria

Thanks, DMA. They were both good recommendations, both unknown to me, but both a bit shy of the mark. Not bad, by any means, but not quite enthralling. Nice to check out what else the Warlords did, though. Lordian Guard was interesting, but a little soft for me in the long run. I'll remember to look back into them when I'm not hoping for something more specific. It sucks to pass over good work just because it's found out of context. Glad you pointed them out to me, though. I know they'll come in handy for a more casual mood.

I'm guessing it's an odd request because, honestly, The Holy Empire isn't THAT good an album, comparatively. Trying to pick out any of the songs as "dude you gotta hear this shit" definitely has that fish-out-of-water feeling. The overall experience of a cover-to-cover listening was quite good, however, despite the shortcomings of the individual songs. Lordian Guard had a nice "pagan magic" air to it, which was good, but the atmosphere there was a little too folky and dreamy for the time being.

Anything else come to mind, guys?
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:35 pm 
 

Dude, Warlord "And the Cannons of Destruction Have Begun..." is a great classic, much better than their latest album that I've found a bit underwhelming. Check it ASAP.

Also, anybody heard the new Borrowed Time? I'd like to hear some opinions.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:41 pm 
 

Nice. Will do!

I've only heard "Of Nymph and Nihil" on Youtube. I'm glad you jumped all over that album to make up for that girl's crap-view, but I was really surprised by what a towering score you gave it. I'm obviously going to have to listen to the whole thing to understand where this "Album of the Year: 2013" is coming from. I didn't find the singing all that. Kind of watery, actually. It's only one song, clearly, but I get the feeling that that album and I are going to have an uphill climb.
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The Animator
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:03 am 
 

Just got the new Borrowed Time in the mail today, and just finished listening to it a few minutes ago. I will still need to listen to it a few times to form a solid opinion about. It does have some really great tracks but a few weren't all that impressive.

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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
I agree that CAULDRON BORN overall is better than SAVATAGE and I would've said that before I had the honor of working with them. :)

I'm not saying that popular = good. I'm saying musical quality is one factor that makes a traditional metal band popular in the metal scene.

I don't think "Battle Cry" is anywhere near as good as early FATES WARNING or HELSTAR, just to name a few. Certainly take the vocals off and it's not as good. I try to take all the instruments into consideration.


:scratch: What are you smoking, man? The riffs on Battle Cry fucking destroy, and the harmony with the bass is completely insane, some of the best lead melodies I've heard for both instruments. Kimball is obviously great but he's in no way holding the album up by himself. Arch Warning might be a little better (particularly "Awaken") but to say it's "nowhere near as good" is pretty flabbergasting to me.

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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:16 pm 
 

Yeah, Battle Cry is one of the best albums I've ever heard and it's miles better than any Helstar album I've heard. All the songs on that record flow perfectly into one another. The riffs and leads are killer/catchy, and the lyrics are awesome. The band photos are hilarious too; the lead singer is holding a sword. The artwork is amazing. I could suck that album off all day long.
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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:06 pm 
 

Pardon me, resident BDMhead crashing in the HerPeS thread for a minute - I've been getting somewhat into more traditional types of metal lately, and I like what I've heard quite a bit, but sometimes I feel like it isn't really as fast as I'd like it be. I usually feel like I'm forced to trudge through the mid-paced tracks while waiting for the next super-rocking extravaganza, and it seems like most albums only have maybe two or three of those. My question posed to you is: is there some sort of speed metal album that's regarded among trad aficionados as that genre's Darkness Descends? Y'know, minimal ballads and minimal mid-paced stuff, just SPEED. Ideally, the less actual thrash influence it has, the better. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be an old album, newer trad-based things are alright as well. Thanks.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:57 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
Yeah, Battle Cry is one of the best albums I've ever heard ... I could suck that album off all day long.

GO DOWN ON THE AXEMAN
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:31 am 
 

As much as I like Helstar, Battle Cry is far better, and FW has Awaken the Guardian that's better, but nothing else.

The new Motorhead fucking slays. My favorite since Inferno maybe. Definitely stronger than The World is Yours.
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suleiman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:05 am 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Pardon me, resident BDMhead crashing in the HerPeS thread for a minute - I've been getting somewhat into more traditional types of metal lately, and I like what I've heard quite a bit, but sometimes I feel like it isn't really as fast as I'd like it be. I usually feel like I'm forced to trudge through the mid-paced tracks while waiting for the next super-rocking extravaganza, and it seems like most albums only have maybe two or three of those. My question posed to you is: is there some sort of speed metal album that's regarded among trad aficionados as that genre's Darkness Descends? Y'know, minimal ballads and minimal mid-paced stuff, just SPEED. Ideally, the less actual thrash influence it has, the better. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be an old album, newer trad-based things are alright as well. Thanks.


Please do not take this the wrong way, but have you heard Show No Mercy ?

proto - Speed Metal with zero balledry and minimum number of slow/midpaced stuff. Though I do admit, it crosses over into thrash on occasion.

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Sunslash
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:06 am
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Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:10 am 
 

I'm listening to the new Epysode, and it's kicking my butt again and again !

For once, a brillant album comes out from my country (Belgium). It has been a long time since Tom Englund has sounded so good.

I'm disturbed by the lack of reviews on MA. Was the first album that bad ?

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WaywardSon
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 am 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Pardon me, resident BDMhead crashing in the HerPeS thread for a minute - I've been getting somewhat into more traditional types of metal lately, and I like what I've heard quite a bit, but sometimes I feel like it isn't really as fast as I'd like it be. I usually feel like I'm forced to trudge through the mid-paced tracks while waiting for the next super-rocking extravaganza, and it seems like most albums only have maybe two or three of those. My question posed to you is: is there some sort of speed metal album that's regarded among trad aficionados as that genre's Darkness Descends? Y'know, minimal ballads and minimal mid-paced stuff, just SPEED. Ideally, the less actual thrash influence it has, the better. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be an old album, newer trad-based things are alright as well. Thanks.


Despite the band tagged thrash on the archives, Agent Steel is pretty much all power/speed. Especially their first one.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:13 am 
 

Agent Steel are a band that make my life worth living. Actually, their album "Skeptics Apocalypse" is featured in Fenriz' photo on the back of "The Underground Resistance" which sets the mood for the album wonderfully. I think the new Darkthrone is a great trad metal album. They can do no wrong!

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
THEMICRULAH wrote:
Yeah, Battle Cry is one of the best albums I've ever heard ... I could suck that album off all day long.

GO DOWN ON THE AXEMAN


:lol:
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Jonpo
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:49 am 
 

High Spirits, Harbinger, and Manilla fucking Road put on the best concert of my life. I knew High Spirits were going to be intense live but they were even better than I expected. Literally nothing but raw energy pumping the crowd into a fucking frenzy.

The Road played everything I wanted: Queen of the Black Coast, The Ninth Wave, and Cage of Mirrors.

Victor Ruiz was there, who I had no idea was in Harbinger. So not only did I pick up the new Borrowed Time, I also got the Sauron full-length and EP, the Harbinger album, as well as a few demo tapes he's released on Arcane Metal Arts. I'm way too blown out to listen to any of them right now but I think these might be cool: Demon Bitch and Metal Grave. Also took the opportunity to snag two Stormwitch albums I've been eyeing forever.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:51 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Y'know, minimal ballads and minimal mid-paced stuff, just SPEED. Ideally, the less actual thrash influence it has, the better. Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be an old album, newer trad-based things are alright as well. Thanks.

For something more modern, try Speed Trap. Full speed at high level.

Jonpo wrote:
High Spirits, Harbinger, and Manilla fucking Road put on the best concert of my life. I knew High Spirits were going to be intense live but they were even better than I expected. Literally nothing but raw energy pumping the crowd into a fucking frenzy.

Psh, I know you were still just sort of lurking near the back and not moving.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:57 pm 
 

Man, I'd like to see High Spirits, I really like them! Chris Black. You guys need to hear Aktor by the way, Black is the singer of this weird finnish project. It's fun heavy metal/hard rock with AOR tendencies and BOC influences. I simply adore Jussi Lehtisalo and all his projects.



High Spirits are definitely very cool, found a vid from the gig Jonpoo went.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:38 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Psh, I know you were still just sort of lurking near the back and not moving.


Fuck off you weird golem.

They were selling that album 'Toine. I had never heard of it before and the name/cover didn't inspire me at all. Guess I should have asked the dude selling em.

If Satan hadn't dropped a masterpiece I think this Borrowed Time album would probably be the best of the year for me. Initial spin has surpassed my hopes. I love the sound of the whole thing, it's more like the demo than the 7", very thick sounding. The Thaumaturgist is my early favorite but I can see the fuss over Of Nyph and Nihil as well. I really like J. Priest's lyrical bent. You can tell he's mostly writing about personal stuff and cloaks it all in an obscure, occult, epic mask.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:16 pm 
 

What! It's a catapult throwing skulls! By the way, I reviewed that single :) Glad you like the Borrowed Time album too, man.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:23 pm 
 

Hahah I can't even see the catapult because the band logo is so awful. I'll check out your review though for sure.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:29 pm 
 

Hey, failsafeman. Got anything for me in the vein of engrossing book-like albums? Not necessarily like Warlord, but of that type of broad experience? I know you like books. :)
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Heavy_T_Skubbs
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:40 pm 
 

FSM likes nerd books for nerds.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:55 pm 
 

Going to check out High Spirits. Always happy to find more traditional metal bands.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:13 pm 
 

Count_Venereal wrote:
FSM likes nerd books for nerds.

So I'm asking the right person, is what you're saying. Good news.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:38 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:


This ended up being a LOT cooler than I expected. They should have picked a better band name. You can tell they are way into Fate but they find their own route to the same darkness. Surprised to find they put out a full-length on Evil Confrontation Records already. Huge burping bass tone, love that shit.

Recommended for anyone looking for dark atmosphere-based heavy metal.
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:53 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Hey, failsafeman. Got anything for me in the vein of engrossing book-like albums? Not necessarily like Warlord, but of that type of broad experience? I know you like books. :)


Greetings, Traveller.

It might interest you to know that failsafeman is also an author. He was written several books, including my personal favourite, Crab! Hands down, this is one of the best books about crabs ever written.

High Spirits ruled at Keep it True, they were so good that I'm afraid to check out their studio stuff just because it might seem like a let-down in comparison to their live performance.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:23 pm 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
Greetings, Traveller.

It might interest you to know that failsafeman is also an author. He was written several books, including my personal favourite, Crab! Hands down, this is one of the best books about crabs ever written.

Greetings from just outside the Asteroid Belt!

I AM interested to know that. How is it not the first on my google search!? I'll try to track down his work .. somehow. I always enjoy reading his replies in the literature thread. And .. honestly, anywhere else they appear. When you see him, tell him I'm curious about some albums. Thanks, ANA. :)
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Aydross
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:23 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm - You could try with Atlantean Kodex, it's a lot like Warlord, but a little doomier.
Check out The White Goddess.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:37 pm 
 

ANA, the sarcasm and inside joke detector of some people might not work as well as yours sometimes. Eh, stop crending in Italy, mate.
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