No I mean book Lorch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPuM5JXv ... e=youtu.be

I was expecting him to torture someone but nope!

I had rather mixed feeling about the latest episode. On one hand, the writing was quite good; on the other, I felt there was something consistently lacking in the directorial/acting department that left me with the impression that this was one of the dullest episodes this season (barring the crazy pit scenario at the end with Jaime and Brienne). The Shae/Tyrion dynamic is getting so damn tired...I hope the plot will move on from it sometime soon. And not being of the bookfolk, I can't tell of what use the Theon torture saga is going to ultimately be to the story, but it had better be big to justify all the time they're putting into it Now on top of T&A quotas we've got torture quotas. And I'm still not getting nearly enough of a genuinely sick/insane vibe from Ramsay nor a genuinely traumatized impression from Theon to buy anything that's going on in that subplot anyway. It's just tedious.

I was about to mention pretty much exactly what Under_Starmere just said. I'm not a book guy but I've spoiled everything for myself and I realized that non-readers will find absolutely no point in the Theon torture scenes. Theyre nowhere near as intense as everyone is making them sound and they don't seem to be going anywhere (nor do they actually, from my understanding of what I read).

It seems like the only purpose of a lot of episodes is to build up to events book readers know will take place. Most scenes are just establishing scenes so that upcoming climaxes feel more meaningful (Robb's scene, I guess?), but there's no real tension building up or development because the sheer amount of characters only allows each ten minutes of screentime. Things just move a lot slower for non readers because they don't anticipate the upcoming events. I challenge you to find one that actually gives a shit about Brann's storyline.

All of what we see happening now with Theon occurred "off screen" in the books. To some extent, what is implied but not shown can be far more disturbing than what you see.

Also, the books didn't have Ramsay just slicing at Theon's fingers until he screamed to have them cut off. Instead, Ramsay's MO was to carefully flay a finger or toe and let it dry and crack from exposure to the air, and then offer to cut it off when the pain became too much. That's a significantly more sickening thought. Also, book-Ramsay is fond of hunting trips where he chases down and rapes women before feeding them to his dogs. Actually, there's quite a lot more sick shit that you at least hear about Ramsay doing in the books than what the show has even mentioned.

I have only read the first two books. I find Bran's scenes dull and boring but I think it's necessary to show how the green dreams work. They didn't do it well earlier. I don't know what is going to happen with him but I'm expecting he will have a much bigger role in the future if he's going to have some real magic power, and I'm waiting to see that. (no need to spoil me about it though, even in case it's going to be a let down)

Great episode tonight! It was well focused, well directed, and contained many scenes I was waiting to see. Now, that isn't to say that it wasn't without flaws, but it was as good as some of the best episodes of the season so far. I really have no complaints outside of one: the unnecessary Mel/Gendry sex scene. It really didn't make much sense why she needed to seduce him in order to simply tie him to a bed. I get the context they were going for but it just came off as a clever way to meet the boob quota. I guess if I was to nitpick, they also tamed the Hound a bit too much.

But that's where my complaints end, this was an otherwise great episode. They finally showed the real Stannis. That scene with him and Davos was perfect. If only they had portrayed him as such all along. Now I do kind of wish they explained a bit better that Gendry was spared because Davos convinced Stannis not to sacrifice him outright. They tried to explain this, but I think it could have been presented a bit better. The ritual itself was nicely done, and I'm glad they haven't forgotten Balon Greyjoy. Sansa and Tyrion's wedding was perfect. Joffrey's shit eating grin and malicious behavior towards the two of them, Tyrion's drunken misery, Sansa's hopelessness, and even Shae coming in the next morning and realizing that they didn't consummate the marriage... everything was spot on. I loved the added Cersei scenes too. They're finally portraying her as the bitch she is, and not "toned down" as she has been much of the time. Great time to explain Rains of Castamere too (it's the song that was played in the ending credits of Blackwater last season for those who didn't catch that... give it a listen before the next episode which is titled "The Rains of Castamere" for a reason.). I think they handled Dany well too. Daario is great so far, just as flamboyant (well maybe not entirely... he doesn't have blue hair and a forked beard ) but less annoying than his book counterpart. The ending was awesome. I liked the conversation between Gilly and Sam, though it was a little overlong. I couldn't help but chuckle at "please don't call him Randall." We finally see a white walker in action on screen! I hope this clarifies the difference between wights and Others once and for all. That whole action sequence was perfect. Hail Sam the Slayer! But major facepalm for leaving the dragonglass dagger behind.

Pretty much agreed with all of your points. I wonder where they're going with Shae, though. [major book 3 spoilers]

Cersei was positively vicious in this episode. Almost too much with regards to Margaery. [minor book 4 spoilers]

Drunk Tyrion was amazing. The awkwardness pre-wedding, then the drunken misery, then the pathetic bedchamber night... very well done. I LOLed so hard when he threatened to geld Joffrey.

I'm a bit confused by this as well...



I liked Cersei actually being a bitch for once, both with Margaery and with Loras. I really think the purpose of threatening Margaery was (besides an over-the-top "go fuck yourself") to explain the Rains of Castamere for when its meaning becomes a bit more important soon.

Tyrion drunkeness was the highlight not only of the show but of the season. And yet, he used it to his advantage to get back at his Tywin and Cersei. And he uttered what might be my favorite line I've heard in this entire show: "Then you'll be fucking your new wife with a wooden cock!" Between that line, the anger and the knife, it was just awesome.

Nicely flowing episode. I especially liked the bits with Dany and the mercenary captains. I liked the guy who played Mero, he had the right amount of ribald demeanour, audacity and opportunistic ruthlessness to him. Too bad, I guess. Daario is awesome as well, good casting choice. I can live without the flashy beard. Syrio's hairdo wasn't exactly faithful to the books either and he turned out great enough.

Facebook likes Daario.

Something is starting to bother me with Danaerys. It seems a bit easy how she's able to get whatever she wants without much effort, even though her dragons are still quite young.

Otherwise I enjoyed this episode quite a lot. I've always been curious about how Tywin interacts with kings and other powerful people and the last episodes filled that. It was more than what I expected and I'm liking him more and more.


Exactly my thought! He has some more I think from what they found but it's still stupid to just let it there and run. I always get mad when I see people do that in zombie movies and I didn't expect to see that here. (I nearly read the spoiler when copying the quote )

Uhh, Cersei's an enormous bitch in every single scene she's in, especially ones with Tyrion. This is really one of the first episodes you guys see her as a huge cunt?

She's been wayyy softer than in the books so far.

Really? I mean on the show she's already been a pretty massive bitch, if she were way worse it might just come off as totally caricaturish and seem like the writers were trying too hard to make her "liek SO EVIL." Her balance of arrogant ridicule and ladylike mien seems like it's been working pretty well so far. You can tell she's fucking rotten inside, no need to go overboard with it.



I was thinking pretty much the exact same thing after this episode. There never seems to be much tension in Danaerys' plot because at the end of every scenario everything just sort of seems to fall into her lap, even if she has to go through some weird/faux-dangerous experiences along the way.


p.s. Hooray, Sam finally did something!

Cersei is a massive bitch on the show, but that doesn't mean she hasn't been watered down a bit for the show. Maybe "watered down" isn't the correct term. Martin does have a tendency to exaggerate and some of his characters ARE caricature-ish (Daario, who was introduced this week is a perfect example is). The show writers have a tendency to reduce these exaggerations which sometimes waters down characters, other times makes them more believable for television. In Cersei's case, she does come across as an over-the-top bitch at times in the book, especially when she starts getting her own POV chapters. Certain scenes and details in the show did water her character down, especially in season 1, but lately I think they've been doing a much better job with her. In particular, the added bit about her having had a child with Robert was a bad addition. Book Cersei hated Robert and openly admitted to Ned Stark that she would take anti-fertility drugs any time he would "drunkenly stumble into their bedroom to take his pleasure," and that she despised the thought of ever giving birth to one of Robert's sons. The addition of some child between them, and added bits about how she once loved Robert just serve to make her more sympathetic than she really is. Book Cersei really has no redeeming characteristics in the books, she's the quintessential insecure mean girl, but with near absolute political power.

As for Danaerys, has she really had it so easy? All characters in the series have their highs and lows. Dany's story began on a pretty dark note and didn't get any easier until she got her Unsullied army. Tyrion up until recently was perhaps the luckiest man alive, and despite his own hardships everything always seems to land in place for Jon Snow. Maybe there's something more to these 3 characters? Also don't forget how lucky Arya has been throughout everything. On the other hand, Martin has shown that none of his characters are safe, and as one of the readers of this group, I guarantee things won't always be so easy for any of these characters.

It's not about luck. Sure it started pretty hard for her, but then later it's as if "the gods", or Martin or whatever, was just making it up for her. She's always sure on what needs to be done and how. At first she entered the pyres to come out with dragons(*). Then, when they took them from her in Qarth, she went to the House of the Undying and "Dracarys!", and it was done (I know it wasn't like that in the book). After that she was subjected to a failed assassination (maybe to show that she's only sure of herself when she knows what to do) before getting her Unsullied army rather easily ("Dracarys!" again). I'm sure it happened in a different way in the book.
And now she has a mercenary army at her command. Why? "Because they had philosophical differences over her beauty".
It's like, she needs an army? Ok let's go and get the army. She needs ships? Let's offer her some ships for free. Not enough? Let's have even more men and gold by sacking a city.
She knows how things are going to happen. That's the difference with the other characters. They're doing what they can to stay alive. They were gambling with their lives the whole time and they were lucky, even though they're in a shitty situtation for now. I think Arya is the luckiest of the lot. She's a little girl wandering in the wild during wartime. She's the sister of a rebel King and a lot of people would want her either dead or captured for a ransom. At Harrenhal she was lucky no one recognized her, then the Brotherhood got her, and now The Hound is delivering her right into her mother's arms.

(*) Maybe I missed the part explaining it but, why wasn't Visery a "true dragon"? I never understood that.

Right... the other characters have all had their luck and their advantages, but the most you can really say for a lot of them is that they've managed to stay alive. Meanwhile Danaerys has managed to accumulate entire armies, incredible superweapons, and hoards of treasure, all without marring her childlike complexion.

Oh man... you guys... are funny.

Tee hee!

The first and second season for Danaerys were quite unfortunate, I see this season as her reward or calm before the storm. She was almost killed in the first episode, people seem to forget that.

Well...I would talk about Daenarys taking the city, the younger starks getting close to the wall or Jon finally showing his true colors (wow what a tease with him right outside the Windmill.......but let's be honest, the only impression left is what happened at the wedding. While we've had a few characters surprisingly die, this matches Ned Starks death back in season 1. If this was any other fantasy series, I'm sure Robb and at least Catelyn or Talisa surviving, or a heroic save for them at his own life. But no, GOT is shockingly and painfully realistic in that area, and all the Starks who have authority are dead. And nice touch with no ending song, it added to it. I'm ready for the season finale, god knows what shit will go down then, although the preview has it look like the Lanisters put Joffrey finally gets put in his place by family.

Question for book readers about episode 9's Jon Snow scene, spoiler-tagging just to be safe.

Ok, so here was the episode all us readers were bracing ourselves for. I knew what was coming and still... holy fuck. I'm gonna spend a little bit less time on the rest of the episode and more on the wedding, but let's get the rest out of the way first. MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD, DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE EPISODE YET (or read the books)

The Queenscrown scenes were well done. I actually remember them being a lot more vague in the book, so I can't comment much on the changes, but I thought it was mostly handled well. I remember Ygritte shooting an arrow at Jon in the book, not exactly sure though, it's been a while. The way they handled Bran was good too. Dany's scenes were on par with the rest of this season, I liked seeing the action from Jorah's point of view inside Yunkai. Would have been nice to also see the army take the city though. It was kind of confusing that Dany had absolutely no idea what was going on outside and just had the city "delivered" to her. I realize in the book that's essentially what happened, but in the show they are able to show more points of view and a shot of the army entering Yunkai's gates and the Yunkish army surrendering would have been nice. Arya and the Hound (pre-wedding) was fine. I liked this slightly more ambiguous and hardened Hound a bit more than the overly friendly guy last episode, but he's still a bit softer than I remember in the book.

Ok, now onto the main event: The Red Wedding. I think they handled it near perfectly! The setup at the beginning of the episode which mislead people into following the Casterly Rock red herring a bit further was nice, and I'm glad they showed Grey Wind but things really started to get good when they arrived at the Twins. The bread and salt offering for hospitality, Walder's comments to Talisa, making Robb apologize to the girls instead of him, perfectly tense, if not a bit humorous at times. I loved the subtle comments like "the wine will run red" and "just wait til they play The Rains of Castamere." I'm glad they included the Fat Walda bit with Roose. I also liked the bit about Robb and Talisa naming their son Eddard. Then when that Frey walked out to lock up the door and the titular song began playing I started to get tense. The scenes themselves were possibly even more brutal than in the book. A lot of things were actually done better in my opinion. The brutal stabbing of Talisa in the stomach was an extremely powerful first move before the arrows began to fly. The scene where they killed Grey Wind made me cringe. The one thing that really stood out as a huge improvement was grabbing Walder Frey's wife instead of the court jester. Sure, I get that in the book it was a desperate move and Catelyn grabbed the first person she could get, but I think threatening Walder's wife and the way he swiftly blew her off with "I'll get another" was just damned cold. Of course Walder isn't going to care about someone as disposable as the court fool, Frey or not, but to show his lack of regard for even his wife, wow! Now, there were a few parts I didn't like as much (although I still give the episode a 9/10, like I said - NEAR perfect). First off, Roose's "Lannisters send their regards." It worked for me, it just seemed incredibly random the way they shot it. It's like he just randomly walked up from the back of the room. Not bad really, just felt a bit clunky to me and they could have shot it better. One thing from the book I was missing was Walder's initial quote after the first barrage of arrows. I'm paraphrasing here but: "Heh, it seems like I've killed some of your men. Maybe I should APOLOGIZE. That will make it all better." It's a minor detail and leaving it out didn't hurt the impact of the scene, but I just really liked that part in the book and thought it really drove home just how callous and cavalier Walder Frey was about the whole ordeal. Other than those few minor quips, it was bloody perfect. I was still shaking after the episode. I also agree that the silent ending was a nice touch.

Spoilers for possibilities in the next episode:

That episode was grotesque in all the right ways.

Yeah, let's name Robb's kid Eddard so we can kill Ned Stark twice!

I woke up excited for this episode thinking shit like "the red will flow." I feel terrible.

I just realized that the one house with the most decency and good will is now virtually dead, so that has me wondering what season 4 will be like with all these other houses who are way more corrupt and greedy?

I haven't seen this episode yet, but I did read book 3 recently. Spoilers for future events of the show below, so only open the tags if you've already read the books.

All across the internet, reactions to this episode have been fierce. Sweet tears, so delicious.

Spoiler due to size (also for this latest episode):


Many more red tags will appear yet...

Interesting cameo appearence last episode.
http://i.imgur.com/NyDxqle.png

http://i.imgur.com/iGm1kvA.jpg

Coldplay's drummer was also a musician during the Red Wedding.

Let's face it, the only character left at the end of the series is going to be Salladhor Saan, and only because he was on a boat at the time. All hail the future king!

Nice! [ADwD]


Also, lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8juOpTM3tE

People actually get hysterical and weepy over Game of Thrones?

A friend of mine allegedly cried during/after the RW... C'mon.

Well, Martin himself was hugely surprised, according to this.

I'm still thinking about what happened during that wedding. Someone spoiled Robb's death for me some time ago, but I didn't know how it would happen, and then when the wedding started I was getting tense. I've seen some people mention the "red wedding" and that made me more prepared. I was thinking "Robb is going to die it seems. Walder Frey is able to do it", but the scene was quite long and that was painful to endure. I was waiting for it to end. Meanwhile Frey was more... friendly than usual, which scared me even more. Then the doors closed and the music changed and I started to realize this was it. I didn't know they would kill everyone though, but thinking about it now, that's how Tywin Lannister works.

I'd still want to know, did they kill Edmure as well? If so, who's going to be the Lord of Riverrun? Looks like Lysa Arryn and her son are the last Tullys alive, and with Littlefinger planning to wed her (and if Edmure is still alive), the whole Realm now belongs to the Lannisters.

That's nothing, I witnessed firsthand my girlfriend's pal vomiting for 15 minutes after the episode, after the hysterical crying stopped.

*SPOILER*
@Belial, Edmure is alive and well. Also, Blackfish slipped away in time so a few major Tullys still live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8juOpTM3tE

Recorded reactions to the wedding.