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yentass
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:28 am
Posts: 927
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:12 pm 
 

You can say it about anything though, can't you? There are "right" and "wrong" ways to do anything, from the most linear corridor shooter to the biggest sandbox and anything in between.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:40 pm 
 

Yeah, but this a massive trait that has almost exclusively sucked, it's not so much that the implementation has been terrible every time, it's more that it rarely has any purpose to even exist.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:18 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
And some of the highest selling games of the past five years have been...?

That's why.

I know, the "why" was really more rhetorical (and exasperated) than anything else.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Ravenlord266
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:38 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Quote:
but I'm not so sure about the "huge open world" thing.

Ugh, why is every game trying so hard with this retarded concept? As if that somehow made games better.


well it improved Dark Souls over Demon's Souls? ;)
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SatanicPotato
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 2165
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

anyone got dead space 3? i'll prob pick it up when its really cheap but i disagree with many of the things EA did with the series so i am not too eager to give them about $98 or so

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BloodSacrificeShaman
Leopold Herman Stotch

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:20 am
Posts: 2109
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:32 pm 
 

I too, am unsure about how they're going to pull off the open world, considering The Witcher is very focused and story-driven. However, I have a hell of a lot of trust in CD Projekt RED, so I have faith that they'll do it right somehow.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 pm 
 

Ravenlord266 wrote:
well it improved Dark Souls over Demon's Souls? ;)

No it didn't, other stuff improved on it, not necessarily the open-world setting, and besides, Dark Souls wasn't such a huge sprawling open-world either, it was still pretty tight and compact. It had a more Metroidvania design/feel to it than RDR/Skyrim/GTA and the likes.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Kahalachan
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 1:46 am
Posts: 573
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:50 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I also agree that everything being open world is a negative, so many huge, empty games with nothing to do. It's been a positive trait to what, ten games?


For Fallout it works. The world is supposed to feel wide and expansive and desolate. And then when you stumble upon survivors or hostiles it's cool.

Red Dead Redemption handles it well cause you're supposed to ride around in the open wide west and roam the prairie.

Assassin's Creed didn't need it. I prefer something like Dishonored where the maps have more intricate design instead of being able to wander wherever.

Skyrim sort of needs it. You're supposed to just relax and role play.

Dead Island was open world and didn't need it at all. It could've easily worked being slimmed down to just zombie bashing.

I don't really consider Dark Souls open world cause you can't just go anywhere you want. You'll die.

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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:47 am 
 

Agreed fully on Assassins Creed vs Dishonored, that game really showed that you can get all the freedom and scope of an open world while not dismantling the game with needless travel/repetition.

I disagree on Red Dead though, that was the most painfully unneeded, boring and empty open world ever, and yes, I know it has to be because its set in the desert, but its.exactly as fun as wandering around in the desert. I would have rathered a level based game, which kept a few of the riding scenes to your destinations, since they could give you all the old western charm you need in of themselves.
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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1687
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:49 am 
 

Kahalachan wrote:
Skyrim sort of needs it. You're supposed to just relax and role play.


In that regard, Skyrim was better than Oblivion, but Morrowind was better than both. Obviously they are all better than Arena I'd say, and Daggerfall I never got to work in any great capacity to really judge. You actually felt like you were travelling a world in Morrowind.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:54 am 
 

Man those ms dos games are unplayable if you started with Morrowind or later haha. I think Skyrim succeeds more than Morrowind because of all the visually lavish set pieces inside every dungeon, but yeah the actual overworld was much better in MW.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:22 am 
 

The main difference for me with Skyrim vs. Morrowind was that, level design aside, Morrowind's setting was just so much more fresh and original than Skyrim's. Morrowind felt a lot more rewarding to explore than Skyrim did not because the individual dungeons were better designed or more exciting from a gameplay perspective (they usually weren't) but because they were more interesting. Skyrim was just faux-Norse mythology plus dragons, so for me at least there wasn't nearly as much incentive to explore, despite the fact that some of the dungeon designs were pretty fantastic (such as Labyrinthian).
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:27 am 
 

Yeah it has been the same game three times in a row, I still feel like each is better than the last though.
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Ravenlord266
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:59 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Ravenlord266 wrote:
well it improved Dark Souls over Demon's Souls? ;)

No it didn't, other stuff improved on it, not necessarily the open-world setting, and besides, Dark Souls wasn't such a huge sprawling open-world either, it was still pretty tight and compact. It had a more Metroidvania design/feel to it than RDR/Skyrim/GTA and the likes.


True that. I still consider the 'Metroidvania' a style of open world though and I really liked how they handled that in Dark Souls. I also think that doing it in this style is waaay better than Skyrim/Fallout/GTA etc did. Because in the latter (like a lot of you already said) there are just miles and miles of absolutely nothing significant, and it's utterly boring.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 3489
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:11 am 
 

Ravenlord266 wrote:
I still consider the 'Metroidvania' a style of open world though and I really liked how they handled that in Dark Souls. I also think that doing it in this style is waaay better than Skyrim/Fallout/GTA etc did. Because in the latter (like a lot of you already said) there are just miles and miles of absolutely nothing significant, and it's utterly boring.

I honestly think all games should have a portal/teleportation option because back tracking is the most tedious shit. If not automatic, make it at least unlockable by the halfway stage.

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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 7154
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:20 am 
 

My friend and I came to conclusion that Dark Souls is pretty much 110% what new Castlevania should've been. Not an easy God of War clone with boring weapons and attacks that cover more than the entire screen at at time. And yeah, Dark Souls reminded me a lot of Zelda off and on, Metroid, etc, that sort of thing, basically my favorite formula ever. I still really enjoyed Skyrim, New Vegas, etc, myself, but I'd definitely take a more intricately complex interconnected smaller world over the fully open world stuff (hence why I always say for FPS's stuff like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, etc, are my top preference).

It's design you really don't see too often in most modern stuff though and that's a shame. I'll assume Bioshock Infinite will kind of fit the bill though, as the first one did a little.

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satanic_neumann
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:37 pm 
 

SatanicPotato wrote:
anyone got dead space 3? i'll prob pick it up when its really cheap but i disagree with many of the things EA did with the series so i am not too eager to give them about $98 or so

Probably gonna get this tomorrow, release date here is not until friday but my copy was sent today. DS3 demo didn't impress me yet, i just hope that there isn't too much sequences where you fight against armed humans, in other words boring shooting crap. Other thing i'm worried about is that apparently game is almost twice long as DS2. Both previous games was just perfectly right lenght, no need to make games like Dead Space longer. Either way, i'm eagerly waiting to get my hands on Dead Space 3. Story conclusion is a must see. Will report back when i finish the game, huge fan of both previous games for sure!

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SatanicPotato
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 2165
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:16 pm 
 

satanic_neumann wrote:
SatanicPotato wrote:
anyone got dead space 3? i'll prob pick it up when its really cheap but i disagree with many of the things EA did with the series so i am not too eager to give them about $98 or so

Probably gonna get this tomorrow, release date here is not until friday but my copy was sent today. DS3 demo didn't impress me yet, i just hope that there isn't too much sequences where you fight against armed humans, in other words boring shooting crap. Other thing i'm worried about is that apparently game is almost twice long as DS2. Both previous games was just perfectly right length, no need to make games like Dead Space longer. Either way, i'm eagerly waiting to get my hands on Dead Space 3. Story conclusion is a must see. Will report back when i finish the game, huge fan of both previous games for sure!

dont worry every single review i have read(many of them) hates the fights against humans but always end it with but fights against humans are rare so i am happy about that, enjoy the game i really want to pick it up as soon as i can despite my hatred of EA :d i love the series so while this one might be the weakest for me it will still be an amazing game

i am glad there are not too many fights against humans i heard they are not fun so glad they are not in it often

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5861
Location: 717
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:03 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I think Skyrim succeeds more than Morrowind because of all the visually lavish set pieces inside every dungeon, but yeah the actual overworld was much better in MW.


Judging from the pics of Morrowind, the graphic textures make the overworld look like moist shit. Even with mods, it looks nowhere near as visually striking as Skyrim.

Spoiler: show
Image


They need to do Elder Scrolls: Elsweyr or Valenwood or Black Marsh.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:08 pm 
 

Well obviously the graphics were worse, but I was talking about the actual objects and locations and terrains Skyrim was just fucking mountains, and you don't even have an acrobatics skill to help you climb them.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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Location: 717
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:27 pm 
 

I had fun looking around Skyrim. The tundra west of Whiterun, the hot springs south of Windhelm. At least one good forest to be kvlt in :P. Crawling along the sides of the ranges looking for Dwemer ruins. Etc.
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Inspector_Satan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 657
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:33 pm 
 

Isn't Elsewyr supposed to be mostly desert? No amount of processing power would keep endless rolling sand dunes interesting. I don't remember Skyrim's mountains any more difficult to navigate than Oblivion (granted I never maxed out my acrobatics skill in the latter.) You can still glitch jump up the side of the rocks

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5861
Location: 717
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:42 pm 
 

Inspector_Satan wrote:
Isn't Elsewyr supposed to be mostly desert? No amount of processing power would keep endless rolling sand dunes interesting.


Arid sands in the North, dense jungles in the south. Source
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Inspector_Satan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 657
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:48 pm 
 

Ahh, I have been misinformed. Valenwood or Black Marsh seem like interesting locales but I stand by my distaste for scouring the desert. It'd be great to see them tackle all of Tamriel again with a single player campaign, though now with ES online I can't see that happening sadly

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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Location: 717
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:53 pm 
 

Hence why I didn't even mention Hammerfell.

I'm not sure if I'd even be interested in a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game. I can't imagine being able to take in the game's proper beauty if some jackoff named GangnamStyle420YOLO is jumping around in circles right next to me.
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Inspector_Satan
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 657
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:08 pm 
 

:lol: That scenario is exactly what I had in my head every time multiplayer was ever brought up, nothing takes you out of a game like some dickhead in a loincloth spinning around shooting fireballs

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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 2388
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:29 pm 
 

Kahalachan wrote:
I don't really consider Dark Souls open world cause you can't just go anywhere you want. You'll die.

As opposed to what?

Anyway, this new Fire Emblem thing has been a fucking disaster. I find out about the game on February 2, spend a couple of days hyped to hell and know no one has any idea where the game went. I am so fucking pissed.

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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
And some of the highest selling games of the past five years have been...?

That's why.





I don't mean to be a douche, but



Call of Duty 1
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 3
Call of Duty 5: Black Ops
Call of Duty 5: Black Ops 2
Call of Duty 17: Modern Warfare 47




I know nothing about computer programming but I bet it's more to do with laziness than $$$. I don't really buy that's it's easier to make a PointA-PointB games than open-world.

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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:28 pm 
 

Just based on terrain, I'd probably want it to be either Hammerfell or High Rock. I like exploring mountains---which, by the way, were easier to climb and more accessible than they were in Oblivion. And if you are really having trouble climbing the mountains, you're doing it wrong. The answer to that "problem" has always been Horse Physics. Works every time.

But anyway, Hammerfell and High Rock look like they have more mountains than Valenwood, Elsweyr or Black Marsh. I never played Daggerfell, but I imagine they'd significantly redo High Rock anyway. After those two, my next pick would be Valenwood; Summerset Isles could be cool too. Alternatively, they should spend about five years doing all of Tamriel. That would be pretty damn cool.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

Well they're working on Elder Scrolls Online right now, which is all of Tamriel, yeah.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 6032
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:33 pm 
 

Who are "they"? Not Bethesda, that's for sure. ESO is being developed exclusively by ZeniMax Online Studios with almost no input from Bethesda.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:14 am 
 

So? It's going to be the next Elder Scrolls game, though apparently set before the others.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:46 am 
 

Probably so they can have dwarves.

I can't play online games anyway, so fuck it, although the format is basically the same as an MMO already soI'm sure it won't be that drastic of a change.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5861
Location: 717
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:55 am 
 

Nochielo wrote:
Anyway, this new Fire Emblem thing has been a fucking disaster. I find out about the game on February 2, spend a couple of days hyped to hell and know no one has any idea where the game went. I am so fucking pissed.


Was it a bad game?
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Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 2388
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:32 pm 
 

Game was supposed to be at retailers on Feb 4th, but turns out no one had enough games to even fill the demand for preorders. So now the game's priced has skyrocketed on eBay and Amazon, because we don't know when it will be available again. And no, the game appears to be quite awesome, all reviews I've seen say the game kick all kinds of ass.

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Dandelo
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 1096
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:16 pm 
 

They'll do a reprint, I'm sure. It is interesting how conservative their initial run was.

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sortalikeadream
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:21 pm 
 

TheUglySoldier wrote:
Kahalachan wrote:
Skyrim sort of needs it. You're supposed to just relax and role play.


In that regard, Skyrim was better than Oblivion, but Morrowind was better than both. Obviously they are all better than Arena I'd say, and Daggerfall I never got to work in any great capacity to really judge. You actually felt like you were travelling a world in Morrowind.


Morrowind really was something special.

I don't have a problem with open world game design. It's only recently become technically feasible and I think it will be the new standard, if it's not already. I do think the Assassin's Creeds games benefitted from the open world set up. AC 2 feels way less repetitive (and therefore more fun) than the first one, even though it remains essentially the same.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:52 pm 
 

sortalikeadream wrote:
It's only recently become technically feasible

Man, what are you even talking about? Most old RPGs are open-world, for example basically every Ultima game they ever made. On-rails RPGs are what's new, relatively speaking.
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sortalikeadream
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
sortalikeadream wrote:
It's only recently become technically feasible

Man, what are you even talking about? Most old RPGs are open-world, for example basically every Ultima game they ever made.


Technically feasible with three dimensional, heavily interactive assets and conventions of the action/third person shooter genre have they manage to implement that would appeal to a broader audience. That is why you are seeing the open world model emerge beyond the RPG. Those old RPGs don't have physics models, anti-aliasing, user-controlled cameras, dynamic weather and AI behavior, and many the other things that have advanced while most genres operated within 'closed worlds' (for lack of a better term).

So, you're right, but my point's still valid.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:35 pm 
 

Sure, if you want "open world" to mean "open world plus all these fancy graphics". As far as gameplay goes though, open world RPGs are like thirty years old on the computer. Which makes them oldschool :D
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