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Wahn_nhaW
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:32 pm 
 

I'm a huge fan of everything they released from the In Memorium EP to The Carnival Bizarre and the accompanying Hopkins (The Withcfinder General) EP, but I've been put off by reviews that say the stoner elements really took over on the subsequent albums. Not much into stoner rock/metal, so I never checked those albums. Now, I know that The Carnival Bizarre already has a lot of stoner rock/metal in it, but not so much that I cannot enjoy it. Also, I'm aware that Endtyme is considered a comeback of sorts and that their last few albums are generally held in high regard.

I've read the M-A reviews, but I would like to start a discussion about Cathedral here, so I'd like to hear what the forumites think of these albums.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 927
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:48 pm 
 

I'm actually a huge fan of that Stoner Metal/Rock thing, so I don't entirely mind that direction they took. They released some bad songs now and then, but I feel their discography after TCB is overall solid.
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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:48 pm 
 

I haven't listened to everything post-Carnival, but I really like The Garden Of Unearthly Delights and The Guessing Game and am looking forward to The Last Spire. Of course, I'm also a stoner metal fan.
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299796kms
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:28 pm
Posts: 358
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:35 pm 
 

If you like Carnival, you should probably also enjoy Caravan Beyond Redemption. I more or less worship this band, and the only two records I don't care that much for are 7th Coming and Supernatural Birth Machine. Guessing Game is a summation of their career and it feels odd that they're doing another album. Not that I'm complaining :P
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CF_Mono
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:05 am 
 

I really liked Endtyme, because it feels to me like it's the darkest album they put out. The tone is very stonerish but the riffs are all really slow, gloomy, and repetitive. Although as a disclaimer I haven't heard a whole lot of their other stuff.
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conquer__all
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:49 pm
Posts: 414
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

The Garden of Unearthly delights is a great fucking album! The guessing game was decent, as was the 7th coming and endtyme. Nothing beat the first two albums and the Soul Sarcrifice EP. I hope the Last Spire goes back to that sound.
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vulcan plutarchy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:36 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:21 pm 
 

Samples I've heard from Garden of Unearthly Delights sound very Celtic Frost influenced. I was thinking about ordering it at one point, but the tracks I've heard do kind of seem like they drag on. Thoughts?
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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:26 am 
 

conquer__all wrote:
Nothing beat the first two albums and the Soul Sarcrifice EP. I hope the Last Spire goes back to that sound.


I get the feeling that it'll have traces of that sound. I distinctly remember Lee Dorrian mentioning that Cathedral had recorded an entire album's worth of songs in the vein of Forest Of Equilibrium around the same they did The Guessing Game and that Requiem For The Voiceless was the song they pulled from it. Don't know if they'd revisit it completely but it does make me wonder.
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GuntherTheUndying
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Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:14 pm 
 

I think Cathedral's post-CB output ranges from good to excellent. The VIIth Coming seems to be labeled their worst or one of their worst, but I enjoy it a lot; Skullflower, Iconoclast, Halo of Fire are all excellent. The stoner influences begin to merge into the music past Carnival Bizarre, but at the same time Cathedral never drops the edge that makes them Cathedral, if that makes sense. All their albums are at least listenable.
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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:08 pm 
 

GuntherTheUndying wrote:
I think Cathedral's post-CB output ranges from good to excellent. The VIIth Coming seems to be labeled their worst or one of their worst, but I enjoy it a lot; Skullflower, Iconoclast, Halo of Fire are all excellent. The stoner influences begin to merge into the music past Carnival Bizarre, but at the same time Cathedral never drops the edge that makes them Cathedral, if that makes sense. All their albums are at least listenable.


I would basically agree, except the one thing that keeps me from enjoying newer Cathedral much, even The Guessing Game is Lee's voice. i'm sorry to say this as I rather enjoy his idiosyncratic approach sometimes, but he really just talks his way through one of the Guessing Game refrains in a slightly singsongy voice, and his attempts to sound more abrasive are no longer very pleasant to listen to. I really thought he was good, up to Carnival and maybe even on the following couple of albums.
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:41 pm 
 

vulcan plutarchy wrote:
Samples I've heard from Garden of Unearthly Delights sound very Celtic Frost influenced. I was thinking about ordering it at one point, but the tracks I've heard do kind of seem like they drag on. Thoughts?

I disagree. The songs are paced well and the longer tunes can justify their lengths. It's also an angrier record compared to some of their other stuff. Great CD. I'm thinking of writing a decent review for it because, like most post-Carnival Cathedral, it isn't discussed that much.
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FJ Receptor
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 187
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:35 pm 
 

GuntherTheUndying wrote:
vulcan plutarchy wrote:
Samples I've heard from Garden of Unearthly Delights sound very Celtic Frost influenced. I was thinking about ordering it at one point, but the tracks I've heard do kind of seem like they drag on. Thoughts?

I disagree. The songs are paced well and the longer tunes can justify their lengths. It's also an angrier record compared to some of their other stuff. Great CD. I'm thinking of writing a decent review for it because, like most post-Carnival Cathedral, it isn't discussed that much.


Agreed. I was a big fan of Cathedral through Carnival. Afterwards they kinda lost me until Garden, which I found to be a pleasing return to form.

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xThe__Wizard
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 845
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:56 pm 
 

I'm almost the opposite I dislike early Cathedral and love later Cathedral. Lee's voice definitely changed. I despise the Soul Sacrifice EP cause of his vocals.
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vulcan plutarchy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:36 am
Posts: 326
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:25 pm 
 

Sounds good to me. I just sent in for it. Still $42.00 worth of Amazon.com gift card bucks to splurge with.
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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 967
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:26 am 
 

I've only got 'The carnival bizarre' and 'The garden of unearthly delights'; I love the first but hate the second. 'Garden' really does my head in with all the weird bits and strange effects, much prefer the more metallic approach of 'Carnival'. I suppose I should check out 'Forest of equilibrium', right?

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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 2325
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:37 am 
 

The first Cathedral album I listened to was the The VIIth Coming, which probably puts me in an odd place compared to the norm. For quite some time I preferred it to Forest of Equilibrium (the second Cathedral album I bought), just for the crunchy, groovy rocking feel it had. The majority of the Cathedral albums I've listened to properly are still from the later period, although having listened to The Ethereal Mirror early today, I can safely say I enjoyed it a lot.

I'd very much consider the bands later material worth investigating - there are some real thundering, stampeding stonerific tracks on many of the albums. I find The Guessing Game to be particularly memorable and at times overtly catchy.

I'm currently working both forwards and back chronologically with the band, eventually to meet in the middle.
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Bahamut7
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:29 pm
Posts: 213
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:18 am 
 

I got the majority of post-Carnival Cathedral records just because I went to Cathedral's final show in England so I wanted to prepare myself as much as possible. I'm another one that has to recommend The Garden of Unearthly Delights. Has quite a different tone to the rest of the albums they've done and the track The Garden is something you should never miss out on.
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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:30 am 
 

Perhaps I should go back and listen to 'Garden' again then... I'll do so tonight :)

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Hellrisen
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:48 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:45 pm 
 

I like this period in time for Cathedral. My favorite records being Caravan Beyond Redemption and Endtyme. CBR just because it was the first Cathedral album I had ever heard and Endtyme because of how heavy it sounds. I'd say that album goes on the verge of Electric Wizard styled heaviness. The VIIIth Coming isn't bad either, definitely more of a return to form, but it still has enough good songs for me to say that I can't hate on it.

As far as the worst album in this period, I would say Supernatural Birth Machine holds that title. Not sure what it is but never really could get into it. I guess to me it just sounds like generic stoner metal.
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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:09 am 
 

the first album i owned was their double live 'anniversary' cd, it must have a lot of new stuff on it? [apart from the entire forest album played live!]
until i had bought this all i'd heard was forest [a long time ago] which i didn't like because his voice had that 'warble' effect/sound, and my death by manipulation tape which i really like :headbang:

now i have their last 4 albums and carnival and love them, the older stuff hasn't quite grabbed me, probably because i haven’t heard any for a while
in short: love the new stuff, need to hear more old stuff again to refresh my memory, and create some new memories :)
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:52 pm 
 

(I checked the guidelines and I think it's OK for me to bump this thread a bit as I've got something to contribute towards it. Feel free to lock it if I'm wrong though....)

I'm listening to The Carnival Bizarre now as I'm reading this and thinking of how the band sounded afterwards. To me, they became a bit inconsistent after the TCB high point, but there are gems there too. So, album by album....



* Hopkins (The Witchfinder General) EP - Very quirky and offbeat, in some places going into straight out funk rock. Interesting to listen to and one of their weirder offerings, but not typical of their style much. The longer sample at the start of 'Hopkins' is cool though.

* Supernatural Birth Machine - Rushed, and it shows as some of the songs on here are really half baked, which is a shame because when this record is on, it's ON. 'Stained Glass Horizon' is a classic, and there are a fistful of other songs which are really great in an all-out riffage kind of way. If they'd spent some more time on writing and recording this it might have been a career highlight, as such it's a partly-completed work in feel.

* Caravan Beyond Redemption - Their worst album, although still worth having. Starts off brilliantly, first two tracks being excellent, but then the rest of the album is very patchy with only 'Captain Clegg', 'Earth Messiah' and 'Dust Of Paradise' being up to scratch. Contains the worst ever Cathedral song in 'Heavy Load'. Overall very inconsistent and a bit directionless with too much aimless filler. However, would strongly recommend tracking down the Japanese version as the bonus track on it is better than almost anything on the actual album.

* Endtyme - Completely and utterly crushing and heavy, a real return to form. Kind of like their Dehumanizer. Has a couple of lesser songs on it but is mostly just relentless, heavy, sludgy riffage and the pace is slowed down a notch or two. Very consistent and probably their best release post TCB, much more focused than the albums before or after it. The rawer sound might put one off a bit, but look past that and there are some really strong songs here.

* VIIth Coming - The forgotten Cathedral album really, it seems overlooked by both band and critics these days. Came out very quickly after Endtyme and is a little like that record, continuing down the same heavier/rawer path in terms of riffage but with noticeably more variety and lighter touches to the songs, bits of 70s prog creeping into the sound here and there. Great sledgehammer style opener in 'Phoenix Rising'. Only complaint is that the album does tail off rather in the second half, and there are a few songs with some awkward sounding moments in them, where the momentum drops off in places. Still worth getting.

* The Garden Of Unearthly Delights - Uneven. I liked this when it came out but have listened to it less over the years. Cathedral apparently did a whole album of Master Of Reality style Sabbath type songs prior to this and then scrapped it, which was a shame as I think it would have been a better release. Dorrian said that they scrapped that record because he wanted to try and make something more distinctive, but TBH he over-thought things and TGOUD seems rather forced in places as a result. There are some great songs here - 'Corpsecycle' having a great bouncy riff and good lyrics (not to mention the sample at the start) - but a couple of clunkers which do nothing such as 'Oro The Manslayer'. The big epic song at the end is good but I don't end up playing it much, although seeing it played live was rather cool. Quite a Celtic Frost influence going on on this album, noticeably in the guitar tone I think. Was hailed as a return to form by the press but it doesn't flow as well as the two previous albums.

* The Guessing Game - Didn't need to be a double album, and like TGOUD is somewhat uneven, but does have a string of quite decent songs on it, noticeably the ten minute long opener, and a couple of other ones with some great Gaz Jennings riffage. Some clear influences from the 60s/70s psych bands that Dorrian likes can be found here and it does give a particular ambience to the songs. Also contains some weirder moments, like 'Cats, Incense, Candles And Wine' which work better than expected. However the second half of the album is a bit weaker and Dorrian's lyrics are starting to sound rather samey in places.

* The Last Spire - Very focused and very dark. I haven't listened to this a lot in all honesty, but it sounds noticeably more intense than anything they did since Endtyme. Apparently they did write some more upbeat songs but left them off the record, which is a shame though I can understand why. Scott Carlson replaces Leo Smee on bass here.

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