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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9320
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:49 pm

I had what you might call a musical "geeking out" moment last night listening to a band called Gravy Train, a heavy english blues-tinged prog band with loads of flute and sometimes heavy guitar, who released their debut in 1971. On this album there's a 16-minute composition called "Earl of Pocket Nook", and the drummer does almost two minutes of what I can only describe as thrash drumming..there's even something that almost sounds like a blast preceding it, except I don't think he's hitting the bass drum more than once every two snare hits...still kind of had my mouth hanging open for a bit because I'd never listened before and really wasn't expecting anything like that. I guess maybe people looking for origins of extreme and steady speeds in drumming styles might consider this album/track.

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Gutterscream
The Last Old Schooler in Town

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 1083
Location: United States

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:11 am

I'll have to check that out, Abom. Is the song on Youtube?

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iriki
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 978

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:50 am

RamsesBringerOfWar98 wrote:

I've heard some people associate Týr with progressive rock. But I know next to nothing of the genre, so wouldn't know how close to the truth that might be. Good band none the less though.

The Faroese one? Maybe Progressive Metal, such as Dream Theater.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9320
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:55 pm

Gutterscream wrote:

I'll have to check that out, Abom. Is the song on Youtube?

Looks like it's in two parts here.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0OAHv1L ... B1C0B9974E
and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0qWq6My ... B1C0B9974E

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TheEerieTomb
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:43 am
Posts: 194
Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:33 am

Jonpo wrote:

(I'm excluding Rush from this post, because they are so much heavier and more riff oriented compared to most of the other prog stuff I listen to. One of my favorite bands of all time.)

I've been getting into prog-rock pretty heavily over the last year or so. I'm still mostly just catching up on what the classic bands were doing but progarchives.com has been a nearly indispensable tool for finding more "underground" type prog bands from back in the day. It took me a fair bit to "understand" the idea behind this kind of music. Especially with bands like King Crimson who take their time to build moods and shift tension, as opposed to just beating you over the head with a killer riff.

So far my favorites are probably Yes and King Crimson. I feel like Yes should probably strike a nerve with a lot of metalheads if given the chance. Howe's guitar antics are all over the place in a jangly technical sort of way, but the real show stopper for me is Chris Squire and that fucking bass of his. He gets some of the heaviest tones and really just keeps Yes firmly rooted with some ridiculously awesome bass riffing. My favorite album by them these days is probably Relayer. I realize most people would prefer them with Wakeman but I really enjoyed what they did after his departure. Probably has something to do with being more guitar oriented.

King Crimson I'm still exploring. As of right now I have the debut (listened a lot), In the Wake of Poseidon (listened a lot for how little time I've owned it), Thrak, and I just got Lizard and Larks' Tongues in Aspic yesterday. It took a long time for their debut to click with me, and to be honest I prefer In the Wake of Poseidon by a good margin. Don't get me wrong the debut is groundbreaking and has some stunning moments, but Pictures of a City, Cat Food, and The Devils Triangle are some of the greatest music I've ever heard from KC. I love King Crimson for the dynamics. They are able to create these lightning fast, claustrophobic sounds with huge swelling synth and mellotrons, and then in the blink of an eye they can switch it up to lighter than air jazzy playing or a heartfelt vocal-led piece. Just stunning stuff.

ELP have been my least favorite that I've really dove into so far. They are great at suites (Tarkus, Karn Evil, Endless Enigma) but a lot of their shorter stand-alone tracks really seem to suffer. Tarkus is the only one I can consistently listen to from start to beginning. Bitches Crystal is an awesome song.

edit: Oh and I'm just starting to get into Gabriel-era Genesis as well. Nursery Cryme is the only one I've listened to a lot. I just recently got Foxtrot but really haven't had a chance to give it the proper amount of spins yet. Supper's Ready was obviously amazing but I think Get 'Em Out by Friday is going to end up being my favorite song on that one. I'm obsessive over The Musical Box and The Return of the Giant Hogweed from Nursery Cryme.

This. Totally.

Yes, Crimson, early Genesis, Floyd, ELP, Rush, Gentle Giant, Camel, Marillion, Uraiah Heep, Jethro Tull - I try to get my hands on all of it (I do have virtually all of it now) and it's all awesome. 70's and early 80's Prog is where it's at.

As for Neo-Prog and Prog-Metal, count me in for Dream Theater (I have almost everything they have ever done, including bootlegs, tributes etc), Transatlantic, Spock's Beard, Porcupine Tree, Liquid Tension Experiment (and the trio), Black Light Syndrome, Mars Volta, Queensryche, Pain Of Salvation, Fates Warning, Shadow Gallery (if Dream Theater didn't exist, this would be the fucken band), Ice Age, Neal Morse & James LaBrie's solo stuff, and oceans more that I can't even think of right now.

I'm also a fan of other music that should fall into Prog, but usually lands up in Jazz or Fusion, like Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Return To Forever, Allan Holdsworth, Herbie Hancock, Tribal Tech, and the master of all things technically Prog, MILES FUCKEN DAVIS. His stuff from the 60's like "Bitches Brew" and "In A Silent Way" is some of the most mindblowing music ever made.

so yeah, I suck up Prog and Prog-related music like a fucken Hoover. Bring it, I want more! :thumbsup:

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TheGreatDuck
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 455
Location: Croatia

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:42 am

Which bands would you recommend for someone just getting into prog? I'm not necessarily looking for the best bands (I know of a lot of bands myself), as I found it hard to get into Yes, King Crimson, Genesis etc. right now, so I'd like some recommendations for prog bands that are easy to get into...

I like some of the bands serious prog fans usually write off as "cheesy" or "too commercial", such as Styx,Asia,Triumph,Magnum,Kansas and Saga (I think this stuff is described as "pomp rock" by some people), so something in that vein would be nice...

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iriki
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 978

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:22 pm

TheGreatDuck wrote:

You cannot go wrong with Rush.

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1634
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:36 pm

TheGreatDuck wrote:

For this purpose, I am going to come in here once again (at the risk of sounding repetitive) and champion Marillion.

While they are highly skilled musicians, their music is not reliant on overt technicality. Their technicality and prog-ness comes more from subtle nuances and textures, especially with Hogarth at the helm. There is some instances of flashy playing and odd time signatures (mostly in the Fish-era), but their music is always palatable, and focused on melody and hooks. Read up on the history if you're not familiar with them (especially with regards to the whole Fish/Hogarth scenario), and check out these tunes:

With Fish:

"Garden Party" from 1983's Script For A Jester's Tear
"Heart Of Lothian" from 1985's Misplaced Childhood
"Sugar Mice" from 1987's Clutching At Straws

With Hogarth:

"The Uninvited Guest" from 1989's Seasons End
"Alone Again In The Lap Of Luxury" from 1994's Brave
"Cannibal Surf Babe" from 1995's Afraid Of Sunlight
"This Is The 21st Century" from 2001's Anoraknophobia
"Genie" from 2004's Marbles
"Whatever Is Wrong With You" from 2008's Happiness Is The Road Vol. 2: The Hard Shoulder

(note that "Lap Of Luxury" and "Whatever Is Wrong With You" are "radio edits")

Not represented: 1984's Fugazi, 1991's Holidays In Eden, 1997's The Strange Engine, 1999's Radiation, 2000's .com, 2007's Somewhere Else, 2008's Happiness Is The Road Vol. 1: Essence, and 2009's Less Is More.

These are some of my favorite tunes from this band, but I could probably go on for 10-12 posts! My preference if towards the Hogarth material. Enjoy!

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UtUmNo1
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:04 pm

Recently, I was chatting to a fellow I'd never met before at a party and we got onto the topic of prog rock. Turns out he was a big Yes fan and blah blah as we went on the subject turned to vinyls. As I was gloating about my B&W speakers and the like he just cam out and offered me a few vinyls he had sitting around as he had nothing to play them on anymore. After my wife washed his phone number (can you fucking believe it) and finally tracked him down a month later I find myself with copies of Close to the Edge, Yessongs, Relayer, Fragile, Tales From The Topographic Oceans, The Yes Album and one that I'm very stoked about, Genesis' Selling England By The Pound.

The thing is, I have a few of these on new vinyl but this bloke was English and probably about 50 years old. Maybe they're originals....?

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TheEerieTomb
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:43 am
Posts: 194
Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:05 am

Yes are quite simply the poster-boys for Prog. They championed the great British 70's wave of Prog with such class and quality material. I totally geek out over them. Anything up until the Rabin years is in constant rotation on my pod (and some of the later reunion stuff too).

If you get a chance, check out Chris Welch's seminal biography of the band "Close To The Edge: The Story Of Yes" which covers the whole magic story - http://www.amazon.com/Close-Edge-Story- ... 685&sr=1-4

And the remstered versions of the albums are killer.

I just want to hear that Chris Squire bass sound that can render men impotent - excuse me while I attach "Tales From Topographic Oceans" to my ears...

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HighlandMetalhead
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:22 pm
Posts: 34
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:52 am

I'll need to check out some of the bands recommended here because some of my favourite albums are by Pink Floyd, Rush, King Crimson and Genesis but I've never looked beyond the big names of the genre.

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Nolan_B
Village Idiot

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 4416
Location: United States

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:49 pm

FirebathDan wrote:

The only albums, I feel, you should consiously avoid are Islands and Lizard. Too unfocused and meandering (maybe you'd dig that?).

Islands is one of my favorite King Crimson albums. I wasn't into it at first, but a good listen on a good stereo makes all the difference in picking out the nuances. The lyrics are Sinfield's greatest in my opinion, and the lineup was my favorite Crimson lineup. Song of the Gulls is the only downtime in the album. How could you not love the grooves on Ladies of the Road and parts of Sailor's Tale? The Letters is just breathtaking too. I like Islands more than Larks Tongues, Lizard, and Starless and Bible Black. It competes with the other 60's/70's albums equally.

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yogibear
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 377
Location: United States of America

Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:06 pm

yeah i'm a big fan of progressive rock. been for a long time, im 53 yrs old. am into the old classic prog stuff as well as the new stuff. im a regular over at the progressive ears prog website. im a member and have written reviews as well.

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MaxMax8888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 9:01 am
Posts: 49
Location: Antarctica

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:19 pm

I absolutely love progressive rock. It used to be my favorite for a very long time. Rush was my favorite band when I was 10, they were my idols. Emerson, Lake, and Palmer is great too. An Endless Sporadic is also fantastic prog rock band, they aren't very popular, but I highly recommend them.

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argento420
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:06 am
Posts: 113

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:23 pm

Listening to some Mike Oldfield right now and this is some awesome shit. Key albums
Tubular Bells-We all know the first part of this as the theme to the excorcist but the rest of it is an awesome prog rock journey.
Herbest Ridge-Completely awesome instrumental prog craziness. Just like Tubular Bells its two 20 minute songs that take you to all kinds of places instrumentally and emotionally.
Like many instrumental prog composers the best stuff of this guy is found in the 70s.

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GodheadsDamnation
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:09 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Venezuela

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:24 am

Van Der Graaf Generator anyone?

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1634
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:33 pm

Just got around to checking out Transatlantic. About 10 years too late I'd say. I was aware of Portnoy's involvement in this project, but for some reason I've never sought it out. It took my recent Marillion fanboyism and the realization that Portnoy and Trewavas are the fucking rhythm section of this band for me to seek their albums out posthaste. Excellent, tremendous stuff that now, of course, has me interested in both The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard (Nick D'Virgillio's association with Tears For Fears also piqued my interest in Spock's Beard). Stolt and Morse are fucking godly on these records alongside that monster rhythm section and it's pre-born again Morse, so I get spared the preachiness (although admittedly, I haven't investigated The Whirlwind's lyrics i depth-I probably should). Highly recommended.

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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:11 pm

I'd like Van der Graaf Generator more if they didn't have that saxophone. I'm not partial to horns in rock music. Don't mind woodwinds though.

EDIT: I do really like them and the horns can add to the atmosphere a bit, but imagine if Robert Fripp was a full time member! The possibilities.

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TheGreatDuck
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 455
Location: Croatia

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:24 pm

Now that you mention them,what VDGG albums would you recommend to start with?

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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:01 pm

I'm still delving in to their discography so others may be able to provide better answers, but Godbluff is awesome. Only four songs long, but they're tremendous. I also enjoyed Pawn Hearts.

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Harlequin_Fetus
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:48 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:16 am

I love pink Floyd and early genesis. I love the essential King Crimson albums like In the Court and Red. However I just wasn't able to get into Yes. I usually don't mind tough music that demands attention but I just can't 'get' Yes.

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Expedience
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 4509

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:15 am

iriki wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

You cannot go wrong with Rush.

Even when it's Grace Under Pressure?

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 6282
Location: United States

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:57 pm

Expedience wrote:

Even when it's Grace Under Pressure?

Especially when it's Grace Under Pressure! I'll get back to you on Hold Your Fire though...

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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 12030
Location: Montréal

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:01 pm

Expedience wrote:

Even when it's Grace Under Pressure?

Grace Under Pressure is alright, i'll take it anytime over Roll the bones, Power Windows or Hold your fire.

i'm pretty excited about their new album, get the fucking thing ready already!!

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9320
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:58 pm

WaywardSon wrote:

Not sure if I misunderstood your post here, but a sax is a woodwind instrument and not a horn. I love horns in rock music and would like to hear them a lot more often. Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears and so on are some of my favourite things for this reason. Atomic Rooster get a brass section going every now and then and although it's not always seamlessly integrated into their compositions it simply sounds fantastic.

I like Van der Graaf too, but I don't play them too often. Why? I think it's the vocals. I enjoy Peter Hamill and actually think he has a great voice, but sometimes it's just a bit too much for me or something. Still, they are a grandiose and visionary band who may not be as virtuostic as the other British prog giants but make up for that with the huge, theatrical and unusually emotional (thanks again to Hamill) scope of what they do.

Recently discovered Beggars Opera. Very cool Scottish prog group with dancing neoclassical organs that make them somewhat comparable to ELP, but on their first couple of albums at least they may be even better. Symphonic and huge sounding with a great vocalist. Definitely recommended.

About the best VDGG albums, well, Godbluff was already mentioned and it is indeed great. I would actually suggest starting with the debut, Aerosol Grey Machine. It's from 1968 and not exactly full-blown prog, but the songwriting is really something special. It has some of their simplest yet most memorable music, sometimes reminding me of a more esoteric Beatles. I also remember really liking H to He Who am the Only One or whatever its' called, but it's been so long since i listened to it. I think it might be time to sit down with some VDGG and collect my thoughts on the band a little more.

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Of the wind in the dark.
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To shoon that tread the lost aeons:
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hakarl
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:49 pm

Those who love Pink Floyd's mid career chilled out awesomeness, check out Crippled Black Phoenix's second album 200 Tons of Bad Luck. It has some obvious references to Animals, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and Meddle, and the atmosphere is much like those albums aswell, particularly in the 18 minutes long song Time Of Ye Life / Born For Nothing / Paranoid Arm Of Narcoleptic Empire.

The band's debut album A Love of Shared Disasters has its Floydish moments too, but it's more post-rock weirdness and strange rock songs than prog.

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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:24 pm

My problem with a lot of prog rock is that a lot of it goes nowhere. Plus, I'm not a fan of jazz at all aside from some fusion groups and prefer the classically influenced bands like ELP and the more hard rock ones like Rush. Krautrock does nothing for me either. Also, I really REALLY hate saxophones.

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2325

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:58 pm

There was a series about the Canterbury prog rock scene on Radio New Zealand by composer Thomas Goss. He spoke extensively about its history and influence on British music, and made detailed commentaries on the music, the arrangements and the bands in general, with songs playing and all. Excellent listening. I'll post the link if I find it.

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perennial_quest
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 49
Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:02 am

FirebathDan wrote:

IMO, these are the Crimson records you "need" aside from what you mentioned, broken down by era (as each era is very distinct):
60's/70's: Starless And Bible Black and Red
80's: Three Of A Perfect Pair
90's/Present: Thrak and The Power To Believe
The only albums, I feel, you should consiously avoid are Islands and Lizard. Too unfocused and meandering (maybe you'd dig that?).
The remaining albums (In The Wake Of Poseidon, Discipline, Beat, and The ConstruKction Of Light) are all worth your time in some way or another, but are hardly essential.

Hmm... I find it strange that you mention Three of a Perfect Pair as their best from the 80's. To me it's a bunch of lame pop songs (side one) along with dark dissonant inaccessible stuff (side two). I really like side two for what it is and I also like the title track but that's it. It feels too much like two separate halves (one shitty, one decent) rather than a fully cohesive album. To me Discipline is way, way much better than this, both in complexity, cohesion, melody and memorability. Beat is the more accessible of the three and I enjoy it more than ToaPP.

Also I don't see why one would dislike Lizard and Islands if they enjoy the rest of the 70's records from this band. Lizard is quite obscure and jazzy in tone, I really love the fact that there is no other Crimson records that sounds like it. As for Islands, sure it's a bit softer and uncharacteristic (and by that I mean a bluesy song named Ladies of the Road, on a Crimson record, really?) but it's still pretty good, Sailor's Tale and The Letters in particular.

Gotta agree with your 90's choice, those are truly the best from that period.

Here are my picks, by era:
'69-'70 (Fripp, Lake, McDonald, Giles, Sinfield) : In the Court of the Crimson King
'70-'72 (Fripp, Collins, Sinfield, whatever transitional lineup they had): Lizard
'73-'74 (Fripp, Wetton, Bruford, Cross) : Larks Tongues' in Aspic, Red (My favorite era...)
'80-'84 (Fripp, Bruford, Levin, Belew) : Discipline
90's : Thrak
00's : The Power to Believe

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perennial_quest
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 49
Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:38 am

WaywardSon wrote:

I'd like Van der Graaf Generator more if they didn't have that saxophone. I'm not partial to horns in rock music. Don't mind woodwinds though.

Strange that you mention that because to me the saxophone is one of their main appeal and the performances by David Jackson is some of the best I've heard in rock music.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Now that you mention them,what VDGG albums would you recommend to start with?

Well, let just say that at first, I found their music to be nothing that particular. Then I had the song Killer stuck in my head. The vocals of Peter Hammill are really theatrical and an acquired taste but once you get used to them they're awesome. I first got Pawn Hearts then Godbluff and I got hooked ever since.

So yeah, to answer your question, start with either Godbluff or H to He, Who Am The Only One (the one with Killer on it). Be cautious with Pawn Hearts, it's really dense and complex but rewarding, the song A Plague of Light House Keepers in particular. Still Life is great too and very much in the same style as Godbluff. After that you might want to check out the 3 solo albums Peter Hammill made during the VDGG hiatus between '72-'74. Check out The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage and In Camera. They basically have that VDGG trademark sound mixed with folky elements (lots of acoustic guitar and the rest of VDGG members participate on them too).

The Least We Could Do Is Wave at Each Other is alright but only hints at what they would become on H to He. I haven't heard The Aerosol Grey Machine but I've been told it was more of a Hammill solo record. The other 70's records have some good material on them but are not essential. I haven't heard the couple of records they made since the reunion in the '00's so I can't comment on those.

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Harlequin_Fetus
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:48 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Ireland

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:35 pm

The Foxtrot album by Genesis is amazing. I listening to Selling England By The Pound first. Took me a while to get into foxtrot but every song on that album is a classic. The bass on Get 'Em Out By Friday is stunning. Its hard to pick but my favourite song would be a toss up between Get 'Em Out By Friday and Can-Utility & The Coastliners. On SEBTP, favourites would be the title track, Firth Of Fifth and The Cinema Show. I was on massive binge of progressive rock last year for like six months, was sweet.

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katatonia47
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:54 am
Posts: 272
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:54 pm

The only Prog band I listen to would be Porcupine Tree

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techthrasher324
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:17 pm
Posts: 27
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:59 pm

Prog Rock is always an interesting subgenre. One of the best things about it is that it is usually at least pretty good no matter how commercial it is. I like everything from early Genesis to Asia.

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1634
Location: United States

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:49 am

perennial_quest wrote:

FirebathDan wrote:

My assessment of King Crimson's essential albums

I guess being called out twice in the same thread for the same thing by two different people warrants some kind of response.

RE: 70's albums, I believe the context of the original question I responded to was something along the lines of "I only have one album; what other albums are most essential" which is similar in tone to "logical starting point for beginners". Something to that effect. From my standpoint, Islands and Lizard don't meet this threshold because they are both "obscure" and "uncharacteristic" to use your words. I don't even think that certain parts of In The Wake Of Poseidon and Lark's Tongue In Aspic meet this threshold. If you were just starting to dig into something, would you knowingly begin with a band's most esoteric and difficult records? That's kind of like saying "I'm just starting to listen to death metal, and I think a logical starting point is Ulcerate". Maybe that's a bad example, but the point is made nonetheless. Some people have the fortitude to start with the most challenging things-nothing wrong with that. I thought it would be more prudent to not recommend these records first over Starless And Bible Black and Red, which I feel perfectly balance all the defining aspects of the 60's/70's Crimson sound.

On a personal level both Islands and Lizard don't do anything for me, while I do enjoy both In The Wake Of Poseidon and Lark's Tongue In Aspic (albeit in small doses). I feel that stretch of those four albums are the most difficult and challenging records in a discography of difficult and challenging records. I can contextualize my feelings on the Crimson discography as a whole by saying that outside of In The Court Of The Crimson King, which is an undisputed masterpiece, I prefer all other eras to that of the 60's/70's material. I reaffirm my position, but will rephrase it to say "Lizard and Islands should be the albums you approach last because of their immensely difficult and esoteric nature".

RE: Three Of A Perfect Pair, again using the context of the original question posed as described above, I feel that this album is a perfect bridging album, encompassing the 80's Crimson sound in a clear cut, compacted, and concise manner. If Discipline is the most complex of this era, and Beat is the most accessible of this era (by your observation), then I feel that that Three Of A Perfect Pair captures both of those elements of 80's Crimson in one convenient place for the new listener, clearly separated by sides (as you point out)-with side A most similar to Beat and side B most similar to Discipline. I reaffirm my position.

perennial_quest wrote:

Gotta agree with your 90's choice, those are truly the best from that period.

I would hope so, as Thrak was the only Crimson record released in the 90's! (kidding of course...)

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danmarder
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:04 am
Posts: 3
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:16 am

I saw the Ozric Tentacles mentioned and I think they are a really fantastic band, they create fantastic soundscapes and I do think that a great many of the more atmospheric metal bands have something they could learn from them. That said, it can be a tad excessive. I've had virtually no luck finding anything particularly similar to them, or any metal influenced by them - does anybody have any suggestions?

Also, do Hawkwind count?

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Bahamut7
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:29 pm
Posts: 213
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:52 am

argento420 wrote:

Listening to some Mike Oldfield right now and this is some awesome shit.

There's still plenty of his albums that I need to listen to but I really love Tubular Bells. Like you said, it's an awesome prog rock journey and I'm amazed someone at the age of 19 managed to write a masterpiece like this. Here I am at 21 and I can't write music for shit.

Hergest Ridge is another one I like, even though I've only heard it online. My mind was blown away at the second part and I'm sure as hell happy to give my dad this album for his birthday. The only Mike Oldfield albums he's got are Tubular Bells and Ommadawn (which I really like as well) and I'd like it if there was more Mike Oldfield in his CD collection.

As for anything else from prog rock, I enjoy Emerson, Lake & Palmer (particularly Tarkus and Brain Salad Surgery), King Crimson, The Mars Volta, Pink Floyd and Rush. There are bands such as Porcupine Tree, Jethro Tull and Yes where I only have a mere one album for each of them. 37 hours of prog rock just doesn't seem enough.

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hakarl
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:20 pm

danmarder wrote:

Ozric Tentacles is pretty awesome. It can be grating to listen to an hour of it in one go, but it's great in smaller doses.

I don't know about the atmospheric metal thing though. The changing key arpeggios and long guitar solos work well for "space rock", but you wouldn't be able to do that in metal without sounding like, space rock.

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Dudemanguy
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 2449

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:01 pm

Holy shit. Thanks to the internet I have found something completely unlike anything I've ever heard before. Back in 1987, a band in Japan called "Mr. Sirius" formed. My history of them is sketchy, but I believe they broke up shortly after their 3rd album in 1992. This band isn't really that "rockish," but it is proggy and weird with tons of orchestral sections and weird spacey feels. The stuff is really weird, but you guys make like (I really dig it, but I can't tell you why), and it fits best here because they do have the occasional guitar solo thingy in it. All I've listened to is off their first album, so their other ones could be completely different, but check it out anyway.

More orchestral focused:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLzW6wUl-mA

One that actually has the guitar playing (around 2:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soesPN9h ... re=related

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Scourge441
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 864
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:45 am

I haven't seen any love for Comus in this thread yet. For shame!

Everyone who is into Opeth owes it to themselves to listen to First Utterance, as Mikael has said it's a huge influence. You can definitely hear the influence they had when listening to Comus, although it's still far from what Opeth do and thus anyone who likes any kind of progressive music should listen to it as well.

It's a very odd album, entirely acoustic with moments that are upbeat (parts of Diana, the main parts of The Bite) and others that are incredibly haunting (pretty much all of The Herald and Song to Comus). The extra songs on the Diana single are very good as well.

They recently reformed and I am eagerly awaiting the release of the Out of the Coma EP. If the title track is any indication (there's a live performance of it on Youtube), the EP will be fantastic. There is literally nothing else out there that sounds like this.

On a separate matter, I haven't really dug into krautrock yet, beyond Amon Duul II's Phallus Dei. Shoot some recs at me?

On another separate matter, any zeuhl fan should check out Eros by Dün and Hundred Sight of Koenji by Koenkihyakkei.

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yogibear
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 377
Location: United States of America

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:01 pm

for beginners i would go with the big 5 or 6 or whatever they get called.

early Yes
early Genesis
king crimson
aqualung and mid period jethro tull
emerson lake palmer
gentle giant

some would add early and mid period Pink Floyd.
others would add van der graff generator

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