I agree with the first and last adjectives there, but spastic? I think it all sounds quite coherent despite its busyness.

"Busy" and "Spastic" do not accurately describe the music. "Sloppy" is how I'd put it. And I think that's my biggest gripe with the earlier material... it's played in a way that makes it feel like they don't care. And not in a good old Ramones and Motörhead way, where they're just too full of energy; it's lifeless and devoid of enthusiasm. If the musicians aren't even getting into their music, why should I?

And the later stuff... I don't know if I've already commented in this thread, but I know others have stated the opinion I hold. Completely watered-down shit designed for mass consumption, and not totally unlike fast food.

Okay, spastic wasn't the best word, but "busy" sounds right to me. Personally, I hear nothing but energy on the first few records, but I seem to be in the minority.

Same here. I really don't get how people say this is passionless, if anything there may be too much in the music.

I haven't heard their latest material, but I think that Hatebreeder and FTR are full of energy and enthusiasm.

They are decent, to me. Over-rated as fuck, there's 2 good musicians in the band, and one pretty good one, seen 'em live, was disappointed, and haven't listened to them since then, (back in May '08). First 2 albums were good, 3rd was alright, the ones that followed are just the same teenaged-pissed-off-as-fuck sort of cliched crap.

I like them but probably more from a nostalgic standpoint, Follow the Reaper was actually one of the first metal albums I ever listened to and I credit it (along with a couple of other albums) with getting me into the genre, and for that reason alone I will always love it. Even now I listen back to it and I really enjoy it, can't say the same for their other stuff though although Hatebreeder is ok and ditto Something Wild. Everything else theyve done is absolutely appalling.

And Alexi is a damn good guitarist, you're either deluded or jealous if you think otherwise. Ok he's no Muhammed Suiçmez but neo-classical shredding and sweeping the variety of which Alexi plays in spades is an art form in itself and he certainly deserves recognition.

you got it

That's what I said.

And to set the record straight so everyone can stop bitching: COB can put on a great live show, I've seen them plenty of times even after I stopped following them. Alexi might look like Helen Hunt, and you might not like his style of vocals but to say he sucks as a vocalist is retarded. Also just because you don't like a band, doesn't mean they "suck" either.

I was advised to buy Hatecrew Deathroll on account of it being "the greatest thing ever released." Sounded like your average jumpdafukup stuff with more annoying solos, I don't rate CoB at all as a result.

Hatebreeder is the best thing they ever did, followed closely by Something Wild. Everything else is gay.Their Creativeness as a band peaked about 8 years ago, I don't even bother with new releases anymore.

I think they are a listenable band, I like them. They haven't produced anything that's jawdropping, and I see why most true metalheads hate them. It's a fairly decent band at best, but they are fun. I own Something Wild, Follow the Reaper and Blooddrunk and I listen to them every once in a blue moon.

I haven't seen them live, but could you please elaborate how Alexi doesn't suck as a vocalist?
I really do think a dog can bark better, even for growling vocals I think he is awful.

What does this mean, and what does death metal have to do with Children of Bodom?

In my last line I said something doesn't suck just because somebody doesn't like it. Now it has been a while since I've heard any CoB, but my measure of good musicianship is how accurate you can reproduce your music. Meaning you might sound good on CD but if you're put in a "no fuck ups allowed" live concert scenario and can't perform the same, then you are a bad musician. So if you haven't seen CoB live then you've only heard their recorded material, correct? If so, then by saying "Alexi sounds like a dog and sucks", really means "I don't like Alexi because he sounds like shit etc." which leads me back to my last line in the quote. I even recall an interview where Alexi said he was singing at the age of 5. So there is some natural inclination going on there.

Wait, people actually HATE Bodom because they're "busy"? Wow. To me, that's the biggest draw of the band. The songs don't bore you by repeating the same boring riffs you've already heard a million times over and over again, like most other metal bands. Riffs are repeated at most twice at a time, and usually given a little accent or some different melody or something different when they're repeated again. The song structures I think are great, they flow really well, and the riffs Alexi Laiho comes up with are catchy and lift the spirit, so to speak, at least in my case; maybe not the "riffs" but the melodies.

The people bashing CoB because of the lyrics and vocals have completely missed the point. The band is all about Laiho's guitar and the guitar riffs, IE the music itself. The vocals are a secondary aspect that had to be done because no one else in the band wanted to do them, and lyrics are often improvised during recording sessions. For me, the quality of the other material in the music (which, if you think about it, is what's counts most in metal anyway, since vocals are rarely the focal point of metal) more than makes up for the average but at least unique growls and occasionally lame lyrics. I've grown to like the vocals anyway.

COB are one kick ass and ... u cant ignore alexi's talent man also that keyboardist dude ... i mean if u cant appreciate raw talent ...then ur just not on the right path brothers

My favourites are Hate Crew Death Roll and Are You Dead Yet, then come come Hatebreeder and Follow the Reaper and last is Blooddrunk.
The best way to say how I ranked them is the sound, they sound somewhat "fuller" or less harsh on my to favourites. Blooddrunk however lacks the "wauw"- or the "yes, it's worth 16€"-feeling. It's a nice cd, but not one I listen often to.
I haven't got Something Wild, so don't ask me about it.

Follow the Reaper is an utterly brilliant album and where I think they perfected their style. Hatbreeder is also fantastic.

As for their past two or three albums they are quite frakly shit, and spit on the neo-classical brilliance of their earlier work. Kind of like In Flames....

EDIT: It seems Empyreal got it dead on, although I think I rate their material generally higher than him.

I agree with you, that on the early albums, their eccentric nature and "busy" style was a draw, but clearly you can see how people would dislike it, too. And I don't think people are missing the point if they dislike the vocals or the lyrics. The vocals and lyrics play a major part in every song, as the band has no instrumentals to my knowledge, and therefore they can be judged with the rest of the music. The guitars and keys are the central instruments, but certainly you can't give the band a pardon on the vocals because of that.

I don't mind Alexi on the early stuff, he sounds pretty good. Better than all three of the vocalists from Dark Tranquillity, At the Gates and In Flames combined.

And I don't actually hate the 3/4ths of Hatecrew Deathroll or the whole AYDY? album, it's just Blooddrunk that made me lose respect for them.

Have to agree that Alexi has gotten considerably worse with time, much like Anders from In Flames, but not to quite the same level of shitness.
However Thomas Lindberg from At the Gates is a league above them all, maybe not on At The Gates stuff but just listen to the man on Nightrages deput album.

I can't stand Lindberg so I can't agree with you there. I find that entire style of melodeath vocals to be laughable and boring.

To be honest I don't think there's a real difference between melo death and regular death vocals is there? That said I would say Alexi's vocals are more like a black metal raspy shriek than DM vocals - but then again I don't think Bodom are typical melo death - perhaps there own melo death offshoot or subgenre....

My point is said vocalists could easily be in more traditional death metal bands (and visa-versa) without them sounding out of place.

Melo-death vocals (from those popular Gothenburg bands at least) are usually more screechy and screamy, more modern sounding, whereas the traditional ones are rooted in more extreme Thrash like Morbid Saint or Demolition Hammer. That's what I usually find. I don't think they'd sound quite right in traditional DM bands...

Didn't they cover a Britney Spears song?

They did; "Oops I Did It Again".

I got into Bodom when they released Hate Crew Deathroll, and being new to metal during that time, it was the greatest thing I have heard (up until that point). I then got their past releases, and somehow managed to get Inearthed as well. I agree that Hatebreeder is probably their best album. Bodom will -never- be at that point again, lyrically or musically. Laiho just seems to puke words out on paper and write shit music to go along with it. He knows it will sell within the "scene" crowd. That's all Bodom seems to be nowdays, money obsessed Finns.

Seeing them tour during the 'Are You Dead Yet' album was probably their best performance wise. Ever since that tour, I've not seen them do deadbeats or solo offs. It's just "Let's play as fast as we can and then go get wasted".

Children of Bodom are like Metallica; they serve as a gateway band and their first three albums are great. If you want to enjoy Bodom, listen to the first three, give the fourth a go (nothing special but not horrendous) and avoid the most recent two like your grand dad's balls. That is how I summarise this band. Some people may label them as "too busy," and that's an understandable label. However, I'm also inclined to say, that it isn't a bad thing. It's the speed, chaos and the "let's fit as much stuff into each song as we can" mentality that makes early Bodom a great listen. People who haven't heard the first three albums are missing out.

Miscellaneous facts:

Follow the Reaper is their best album.
Alexi can't write lyrics for shit.
Guitar/keyboard wankery = awesome!
I shook Henkka's hand once.
Downfall rules.

The end.

CoB is the best progressive folk/viking power metal band ever.

I Like COB a great deal from their first album onward. When Are You Dead Yet came out, I didn't like it all that much and didn't listen much to it either. It just didn't play well in a car. I do like Bloodrunk, it sounds like a "best of" album.

I always thought that with the early albums, the keyboards where dangerously close to being goofy. And now that I started to listen to COB again, I realize that Are You Dead Yet was a necessary album. It reigned in the keyboards from going overboard and focused more on rawness and guitar. It's a departure no doubt for COB, but now I love that album. When you can hear it on a great system and catch all the subtleties, it's terrific. I wouldn't mind a future album advancing from Are You Dead Yet rather than returning to familar stuff.

I don't care much for lyrics in any band, but constant "eff this" "eff that" is kinda annoying and childish, but hey, the kids love it.

Alexi is an outstanding guitar player, no way around it. The band, and he in particular, put on a good show on stage.

Well said^^

I despise CoB. I am going to their show in London solely for Cannibal Corpse and I am hoping I can ditch before they come on.

aren't these all the same things that apply to Dragonforce? then why does everyone hate them more than Bodom?

i don't know how baseball is played in other countries, but in the US of A, the rule is '3 strikes and you're out'.

you must be hardkorr as fuck, bro \m/_

keep despising bands with all the energy you can muster so the rest of us don't have to

Bodom on Follow the Reaper and Hatebreeder produced very well written material.

So did DragonForce on Valley of the Damned and Sonic Firestorm, by the way.

I've barely listened to Dragonforce and don't intend to any time soon. I'm not that into power metal, so they don't particularly interest me. However, I stand by everything I wrote in my previous post and think that CoB's first three albums are great fun. Dragonforce may also be great fun, I'm not sure. From what I hear, most of the hate stems from Inhuman Rampage.

I shook/touched his hand like 5 times with their last tour in the States.
Same with Roope.

But, I forgot to mention the time that I snuck past secruity at leat 20 times to get Laiho to sign a picture with Janne Niinima [hockey player].
I got the bus driver to go onto the bus and badger Laiho to sign it for me. I figured he [Laiho] would've been cool enough to come off the bus and actually talk to a fan. Haha, yeah right. He was sitting next to Warmen getting wasted.

they are fun and they show this in their music and when performing live. from what i have gathered from their material, Valley of the Damned on its own passes as a pretty good Power Metal album. these songs stem back even before they were 'Dragonforce'. it's a matter of whether or not you can tolerate all of the content of their music mostly. they do fill every song with as much as possible to fit into a song. their latest album also displays some elements that are somewhat different from past releases. not a bad band, but overrated at least to a degree among non-power metal fans, and even kind of underrated by some power metal fans. there are overall much better power bands around, known and unknown, but Dragonforce are the one that you can always come to for a blaze of power metal fury.

Dragonforce definitely is a perfect band for gateway Power Metal, as Bodom is a perfect gateway band into more extreme metal than that of just mainstream appeal. they and the Force have both made some excellent metal and it's nice to go back to it every now and then for a listen.

They are not THAT bad but they aren't one of my fav bands
Alexi is a GOOD guitarist, but not great

Their drummer is ok though

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if Dragonforce were underrated, or that they received a disproportional amount of hate. I'm still not that inclined to listen to them, mostly just because I'm not a power metal fan. They might be worth a download though and might check 'em out soon, if I can get around to it. Who knows, I might end up loving their cheesy brand of power metal as much as I love CoB's cheesy brand of extreme metal.

Their stuff before the last couple of albums was ok. Other than that