There is an overwhelming epidemic of illegal immigration via the Mexican border that has taken hold of the United States in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and especially the state of California.
Every year, these waves of undocumented workers with their families increase the rate of crime, tax our health care system and burden our schools with their children who have to be taught English and therefore raise the demand for more teachers we do not have and who are already underpaid.
The paradox of all this is that the economy in these states depends on these people for cheap labor in the service industries as well as in the construction and landscaping workforces etc. In effect, a day without a Mexican is a day where the economy goes kaput pretty quick.
The general position of the tax paying public is this: We do not welcome nor sanction people who enter this country illegally BUT if they are resourceful and dedicated enough to endure the brutal trek across our increasingly fortified border, that is all the well and as it so turns out..essential.
Should this economic symbiosis be honored at an offical level such as implementing a Guest Worker program? Should the states that make English the official language make Spanish a co-official language to acommodate the growing population of Spanish speakers?
The 2007-08 Economic Crisis does weigh in on this issue and because of it, numbers might actually be down on the amount of workers trying to get into the U.S. It wasn't nearly the hot issue it was a year and half ago because of the current recession. Nevertheless, migrant working populations from outside the U.S. is and will continue to be in play in whatever economic climate.

I think if "we" as "Americans" are gonna whine/complain/bitch about illegal immigrants we should leave and then immigrate back in, seeing as how we stole this land from the native americans, almost wiped out these so-called "savages", and gave them some of the most shittiest land to live on. America has fallen so far down hill, there's no going back. Whatever happened to:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Guess we forgot what our counrty was founded on and have decided to tell everyone else how to live and not worry about the constant oppression/persecution/corruption that goes on in our country. I'm in the military, have deployed to Iraq once already and am planning on going back in January. I fight for my beliefs that one day this cynical/hypocritical/lying country will realize what fuck-tards we've been and will right itself. If you're country sucks, and you want to make a better life for yourself then come to America, work your ass off and maybe one day, you'll have the American dream. But, with how our government keeps screwing us and everyone else I doubt it. Instead of God Bless America, it's now become God Damn America.:fuck:

I was born here (thus I did not immigrate here, just like my parents before me, and their parents before them), so I am a citizen.

I'm not saying that the US didn't do horrible things to the Native Americans, but look at it this way, we didn't grant any land to Mexico in the Mexican–American War (though, I'll admit the circumstances in that scenario were annexation, so not the same). Besides, the US wasn't the only one that acted horribly to the Native Americans, they're just the only ones that still reside on their [Native American's] land.

Even though it doesn't right the wrongs of past transgressions towards Indigenous peoples of this country, a great number of those nations today have "cashed out" by prospering their communities with the revenue provided by casino gambling.
Did you know if you are a resident of Oklahoma who can provide proof of at least one quarter Native American heritage regardless of tribe, you qualify for health benefits and a generous welfare income check provided by the collective gambling revenue from that state?

Are you sure illegals are so valuable to the economy? Their cheap labor wasn't around 30-40 years ago and California seemed to be doing very well. I see their current ''necessity'' as being something on the grounds of ''hey now we've got some illegals who'll work for next to nothing so let's be lazy and exploit them''. It wasn't always essential to those regions' economies, and the crime/poverty brought by those people negate any ''economic benefits'' they might bring.

Times change. There is greater prosperity for more of the average citizen now and hence more complacency to take the less desirable jobs and besides, why hire an American for the minimum wage when you can hire an illegal to pick your fields for 4.00/hr?. Of course, paying below minimum is off the books and that is how the migrant work force economy works. But you are wrong about 30-40 years ago. The migrant work force was still very much a factor in the economy in those places.

America has prospered because of immigrants. Look at when the Irsih immigrated here so long ago, w/o them the nation wouldn't be half of what it is today, same w/ Chinese immigrants who helped build the railroad. Americans have just grown fat/lazy/retarded and don't want to do anything for themselves, but when somebody else comes along who'll do it for less pay and longer hours they get pissed if they lose their job. It's just Darwinism, those who can't adapt will die out (good riddance) and those who aren't ignorant and oppresive will eventually prosper w/ those who broke their backs for a better life. Break down the borders, quit hiding behind how the immigrants don't pay taxes (which don't even get spent on what our government tells us they're suppose to spent on) and get a fucking backbone. If you're scared of lossing your job to someone, maybe it's cause you're fat/lazy and useless. Adapt/evolve or place yourself in front of an oncoming train and quit wasting MY tax dollars on your frivolous needs. Like banning books in school, and other bullshit. Maybe it's time that these opposers step-up and instead of blaming others for their problems actually look at themselves, cause they're usually the problem. Our country ranks 46th in education and believe me it shows. Read a book and quit going off of what the government/FOX/NBC/CSPN/CBS/ABC/Disney/Viacom and all those other fucked and bought out "information" resources tell you. Open your eyes to how shitty our country has become before you go blaming people who are just trying to make a decent living for themselves, for why the economy sucks (Federal Reserve), why our education system sucks (Americans are LAZY/FAT/STUPID). It makes me sick to hear how we just need to erect a wall between us and Mexico, go slit your wrists if you believe that. That's not what this country was founded on, read the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution before you open your stupid/ignorant/no-responsibility accepting ass mouth.

Immigration is not the topic, ILLEGAL immigration is, stop talking about the world 100 years ago and come back to the present.



And how would you know that? Certainly you don't have access to government spending documents.



Or it could be because some bloke who jumped the border will do the same work for half the price because they know no better?




One word: Paragraphs



You yourself seem to be ignorant to such wonderful facts like the large amount of drugs smuggled over the border, among other things (including people of course). It's the government's responsibility to ensure the safety of its people, if a giant fucking wall is needed for that, then so be it.

marktheviktor is pretty much in line with me, on one hand, illegal immigration is certainly problematic in places yet on the other hand, there's somewhere around 10 million (correct me if I'm wrong) illegal immigrants residing in the United States who work a hell of a lot for very little pay and keep many businesses alive. Perhaps a compromise is required, making the issuing of temporary working visas easier and the like easier for Mexican citizens. I think, as an outsider to this situation, one of the main problems is the simple lack of communication and subsequent agreement between the United States and Mexican governments.

Bear in mind that the topic is about illegal immigrants, not just any old immigrants.

Edit: Bleh, Berzerko got there first.

Here are just some statistics of the problems of illegal immigration

http://minnsirproject.blogspot.com/2007 ... liens.html

Might be a bit biased, like most surveys, but I'm just throwing it out there.


I'm totally against illegal immigration. The counter argument is that most of these illegals come here to do the jobs American don't want to do. Well, I'll say this - there's no shame in doing any type of hard, dirty labor if it pays the bills. I've been there, it might suck at first, but at the end of the day you feel pretty accomplished. It's not like you'd be working 12-14 hour days with no break and wages below minimum either. I guess the media, TV, movies, etc glorify white collar jobs nowadays and really portray most blue collar jobs as worthless, so Americans, especially the snobby ones feel entitled to some high paying white collar job where they never have to do a day of hard labor ever in their life.

I understand what you're saying about this being about "illegal" immigrants, but they're weren't many immigration laws of the times I spoke of. Also w/ the whole issue of drugs being smuggled across the border, that's bound to happen. Yeah drugs can make things horrible, but that's life. Human trafficking, also horrible, but you can't stop every person out there who's going to do something for illegal gain.

What I want to know is why America has finally decided that "we" as citizens need passports to go to Mexico. Is it cause they realized they looked like hypocrites? Telling millions of less fortunate, impoverished people that they can't come to "our" country unless they fill out some legit paperwork and filed it for recording.

America has just grown scared of the fact that we can't keep attacks on our home land from happening, so they decided to push the illegal immigrant situation. The gornement isn't concerned about your/mine/anyones safety. They just want another way to make a few billion dollars.

How about we do an experiment? Let's all move to Mexico and see how absolutely corrupted and impoverished it is. Then lets try to get the right forms and documents gathered in order to come to America. After we submit the paperwork lets see how long the American government takes to process and finalize it. Then, after an un-godly amount of time they'll call you before a board of people to ask you some questions. Of course you don't know english very well cause it's not taught in your schools. So after fumbling the interview, you finally are told you're not accepted to come to america. Damn, that sucked. What a waste of time.

Please don't think that the process of coming here is easy. Our government drags it feet when it comes to this process. I feel that our country has started lossing its grip as a super-power and it's looking for a thing to blame. So it has decided that it's gonna attack illegal immigrants, and wht-not. They're not the reason we're in a damn depression (cause let's face it, that's what we're in). It's because of greedy, lying, swindling Americans who take advantage of these people.

It's our own fault our country is in shambles. Quit blaming and start accepting responsibility for the problems we've created. Don't sink so low that you have to blame somebody willing/looking for work. These immigrants shit like you do, they're no different. Somebody cut you some slack so why don't you return the favor.

I'm not saying that we need to abolish the paper process for immigration, but the government needs to do a massive overhaul. It's too slow, too in-effective and ultimately useless. Building a giant, reinforced wall only presents an image of careless, un-wanting, ignorant people. Do we really want the nations around the world to see that when they turn on the news? Do we really want people to sit out on their porches and shoot anybody coming across the border? No, we don't. If you want to actually make a difference, think of ways to help both sides positively.

You're quick to answer for the rest of us who do not agree with you.

I for one have dealt with illegals trespassing through MY LAND!

You don't know what it's like to have them hiding outside your house
as they wait for their fucking ride! You haven't spent hours waiting for
a doctor to see you while THEY get assistance right away because THEY
have no PAPERS! You haven't applied for a job and gotten rejected while
stuttering crack heads get employed because THEY have NO EXPERIENCE!

When I notice them in my land I grab a machete and go to work. You
should see their shitless faces as I creep up and give them a warning
swing or hit bone. They leave all their trash behind for me to clean up.

I used to feel sorry for them and actually gave them water as they
waited but they started taking my clothes off the clothesline...so no
more...start running as soon as you see me coming!

I live on the border so I've seen this problem grow bigger and bigger.
And it's not just the illegals it's the Mexican Nationals, the rich snobs
who are moving into our regions who in return, hire the illegal immigrants
at their shitty ass businesses.

I'm not gonna sit here and read some bleeding heart liberal or listen
to his crying jags about how he feels sorry for them, and how they go
through alot to get here. THIS IS NOT THEIR COUNTRY! STAY THE
FUCK OUT! TAKE UP ARMS AND TAKE BACK YOUR OWN COUNTRY
IF YOU HAVE TO. DEMAND THEY GIVE YOU JOBS BACK THERE!

Since I live on the border I have access to their tv stations who actually
promote illegal border crossing. The Mexican government, if it can
be called a government, have actually set up rest stops along the way
to the border before they cross. Can you believe the gall of these
invaders?! And our own government continues to send them our hard
earned tax money to help them fight the drug war. FUUUUCKKK!

What we need to do is ABOLISH immigration, both illegal and legal and
start kicking these moochs off the country.

I don't need the media to tell me to hate these people...shit nowadays
they're more likely to be on their side. I see the corruption every day
as our sheriffs and police allow their criminal activity to go unnoticed.

I have a personal family relative who suffered at the hands of a
brutal sick fuck who simply ran back to the shit-hole that is mexico.
No need to worry, we caught up to him.

Do we really want people to sit out on their porches and shoot anybody
coming across the border? MY family already does that. My family
remembers who won the Mexican-American War and we're not about
to let them take back what they lost.

I have a better idea mother Russia used to do. Lets put land mines all
over the border and watch the limbs rain. I DON'T MIND YOU USING
MY TAX DOLLARS FOR THAT.

On this issue there is no debate. I don't have time for these sick
people supporting these slaves.

I don't believe that the state or arbitrary geographic boundaries hold any value, and so borders are of no concern to me. That some Mexican immigrants migrate without bothering at all to adapt is worrisome, but other than that, I have little problem with them as a broad collective.

A machete huh? Well that's just another reason why other countries hate us and want to attack us. Cause you think that because you pay taxes on a piece of land that was stolen to begin with, you own it? Have to protect it at all costs?

I'm sorry for your relative, and for the things you have gone through because of where you live, but it's not a personal thing that they're doing by coming across your land. It's not like they sit around thinking of ways to fuck up your or anyone elses life.

Like I said before, not all of them are great people. Is every American who resides in this country great, NELL NO!!! Most of us will do whatever it takes to get ahead. The majority of immigrants are good,honest, hard workers. Can let a few of them ruin for the rest can we?

Maybe we should just start using internment (concentration) camps like back during WWII. Lock up all the the Arabs, Muslims, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, anybody not 100% full-blooded American right? Gas em all and be done w/ it. This is the exact sort of thing we try to tell other countries not to do and yet here we are, one step from falling into a genocidal, tyrannical, dictatorship.

Let's just ship out anybody who doesn't have American roots going back 200 years. That'll settle it then. Of course most of us wouldn't be here, since our ancestors immigrated illegally. I'm sorry for the things you've experienced, but that's no reason to start taking up arms to eradicate another person looking for a BETTER life.

Right, you have on one hand the white middle class American who is nothing but a greedy, stupid, capitalist while on the other you've got the lower class immigrant who just happens to be sincere and diligent. You have a pretty good talent for generalizing an entire demographic my friend.




Don't be so foolish. Do you honestly believe that the majority of Americans out there think like jeanjacket? That's a highly unrealistic scenario taking place, atleast in this day and age it is. I believe you should get to know the people living in your own country better before you start judging like that.

Bobby_Typhoon, I must say that, judging from your posts, you're one of the most ignorant douchebag liberals I've seen in a long time. Your near-marxist forms of generalization are disgusting and stupid.

First of all, you bitch about (white) Americans stealing Indians' land but those same Indians came from Asia and took it, so in the end it ''belongs'' to nobody from the very beginning of history. Whites owned Indians. It's called natural selection, live with it.

The American government is too feeble, corrupt and indecisive to do anything about Illegals. A real governement would defend ITS OWN borders, not those of Israel and occupied Irak and Afghanistan. Oh, and yes, your illegal immigrants are almost 100% honest people who just happen to make crime rates soar and infest the US with drugs from the south.

I don't think he's generalizing, there's some people who think immagrants aren't worth a shit, all of them and that all white americans are the best people in the world. It's like racists pointing out every bad things a non-white people do and say: "see how they are all inferiors?" There a good "native" americans as greedy ones same for illegal immigrants who are from shitty countries like mexico. Some are just honest people who just try to live the best they can from their situation and others are the ones who makes all the shit. In a corrupted country like mexico it's not everyone who "take advantage of the situation" as all americans are not fat greedy people, and that's how people look at them:"ah those fucking americans". There's two sides of a coin.

Also, the us system has massive problems. Problems made by illegal immigration, crime rates (with firearms) and any other, the us media and all always try to give the fault to the first thing that comes across their minds. Why so many crimes with firearms? Ah it's the video-games, Marylin Manson, "heavy metal". They just can't look at themselves to see the real problem (2nd ammendement). They see the false reasons and try to make solutions that could almost make things worse ( the wall).

This is an interesting debate. I am a non-immigrant student in the US myself and as an outsider, I may be able to provide a fresh outlook to the whole issue. The original poster has made some very good observations about the various consequences, some good and others not so much, of having excess illegal immigrations.

The mail arguments against illegal immigrants being given official residency status are (a) some of them have bee involved in crime (b) it sets a dangerous precedent.

My idea for solving this problem would require the US government to do the following:
(i) Take all adequate steps to stop cross-border illegal immigration.
(ii) Initiate a program by which illegal immigrants within the borders can obtain a work permit or residency status. The way it needs to be done is to set a deadline before which everyone guilty should report to the authorities about their undocumented presence. These individuals must be properly vetted before being providing legal status (this will be difficult and the background verification may fall short).
(iii) Beyond the deadline, all illegal immigrants must be treated as criminals and dealt with accordingly.

If this system is implemented successfully the country will make use of the already existing workforce that gained entry without due approval but at the same time, purge the criminal elements and strongly discourage further immigration.

Not exactly, as it won't be the same super-cheap labor that it was when they were illegal.

Stolen? It's how humans do things mate, every single political border on Earth has been created by, or at least influenced by war.



Tell that to the courts who convict idiot drivers who kill people on the roads due to their lack of attention. "Oh, I didn't mean to do it!"



Because we want to deal with people who break the laws of the countries we live in?

Let's just ship out anybody who doesn't have American roots going back 200 years. That'll settle it then. Of course most of us wouldn't be here, since our ancestors immigrated illegally. I'm sorry for the things you've experienced, but that's no reason to start taking up arms to eradicate another person looking for a BETTER life.[/quote]

So every war is an illegal act now? As terrible as an invasion/settlement is, back then, and probably now as well, it would have never been considered illegal.

The problem isn't with people looking for a better life, the problem is for people looking for better lives without following the laws. Plenty of people apply to immigrate, why can't these people? Because they want to start making money faster?

Ah, you found a loophole there. I have no immediate answers as to what can be done to resolve that issue in a way that wold not hurt the economy and at the same time not set a bad precedent of lower wages.
Can you think of a good compromise?

I'm not really sure why people seem to think that illegal immigrants do jobs that nobody else will do. Last time I looked, there were millions of legal teenage citizens who would love to do that kind of work for the last couple of years, since they couldn't get any jobs at all do to illegal immigrants getting all the backbreaking work in one sector and an influx of older married women working for the first time in years in the other sector. Seriously, no unemployed person my age or younger that I know was able to find a job this summer because all the construction, warehouse, factory and landscaping jobs were taken up by illegal immigrants, and all the retail/customer service jobs were taken by longtime younger employees or new employees in an older age bracket (who's going to want to employ a teen or early-20's person when they could employ someone in their 40's with more work experience?).

Get rid of the illegals and you won't have a black hole of unemployment, there's plenty of legal citizens willing to grit their teeth and take the tough jobs.

Truthfully, no, I can't. Then again, I'm far from an economist, actually pretty unknowlegable on the subject, but possibly someone else could address the issue, hint hint.

Allow us to examine the root of the problem: Mexico. Contrary to (mostly American) popular belief, it is NOT a third world country by any stretch.

It has a 2007 parity GDP of 1.34 trillion dollars, with a reported growth of 4.6% on that year as well making it among the world's wealthiest. A major exporter with an emphasis on free trade, it's oil reserves are second or third in the western hemisphere which basically means they have more purchasing power than about three Eastern European countries combined.
So, Mexico on paper at least is or should be an economic titan but right now it is an underperforming country that could otherwise easily be one of the G leaders.

Ok then, so what's the problem you ask? The problem lies in that country's uneven dispersion and disparity of wealth among some of its states. It's not that there are no jobs for them over there. There are plenty. The problem is that wages for labor in those states are grossly uncompetitive compared to the United States.
This also has much to do with how fucking corrupt the government officials there are. Hence, the rich are always very wealthy and the poor in a lot of states are really poor in a much more unhealthier fashion than other countries. But that model does not classify as a class or caste system found in third world nations.

The sooner Mexico can implement economic reforms and upgrade its infrastructure, the sooner the immigration problem will subside to at least manageable levels.
But therein lies the problem for the western US economy; that much of the labor sector has already been so reliant on cheap immigrant labor. However, I believe that the political and diplomatic implications will work itself out naturally since foreign remittances also contribute to the Mexican economy.

But there is something else too that is the scourge of Mexico that alarms me and might possibly spill over into this immigration debate. It is the proliferation of kidnaps and murders due to the war against the drug cartels and other enterprising criminal motives that seem almost as brutal as terrorism. Please read the news link below for more information.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... n1-22.html

Do you know anything about the history of that poem? Even the most cursory of investigations should tip you off to the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with the founding of the U.S. It really is a shame that this particular myth has become so ingrained in the minds (though that might be too strong a word) of average Americans.

Just out of curiosity, I would be interested in hearing some support for this idea that tight control on immigration, legal or illegal, necessarily equates to some form of totalitarianism. It seems to be bandied about a lot these days, although it has never really made sense to me nor have I seen it properly defended. Although I suppose that could have something to do with a person's ideas on the nature of a state; the very idea of national boundaries and the existence of apparatus to enforce them is profoundly authoritarian to some. Still, unless you subscribe to some shade of anarchism which, given your army service, would be at best ironic, I don't see how closing the borders could automatically usher in a "genocidal, tyrannical, dictatorship."

The entire situation is laughable, in my humble opinion at least. Though I am not exactly a huge fan of Hobbes I can go along with the idea that the state's main responsibility is the protection of its citizens. From that one could assume that the U.S. government should devote a large share of its resources to safeguarding the sanctity of its borders. Not all invaders carry weapons. The porous nature of the southern border is a huge blow to American sovereignty. Of course since we are apparently living in the "decline of the state system" maybe that is not such a bad thing; although some nostalgic folks, such as myself, might prefer to keep it.

My personal view on the matter is that the borders need to be controlled for the time being because the faltering economy combined with all of the undocumented workers taking others' jobs will eventually result in civil unrest. Resentment towards these workers is unfortunate because many of them are honest and good workers, but it is inevitable given the circumstances. If the United States had a healthier economy and didn't have a binge spending government that is essentially furthering our economic destruction, I'd argue to quadruple legal immigration quotas from Mexico, particularly if we had full employment and still a demand for work. Increasing the number of work Visas would be another option to help stave off undocumented workers, along with the elimination of income taxes in order to encourage productivity from all citizens, immigrant or natural born.

I think the best way to get the borders under control in the South is to eliminate the INS all together, and send all of the manpower and money currently utilized for that department to border state governments so that they can handle their own borders. This would eliminate redundancy in the chain of command insofar as the INS goes, and also alleviate concerns of Constitutional violations by the Federal Government in the name of National Security.



As someone with some tribal ancestry who has some extreme views on Native American politics, I would kindly like to inform you that this sort of talk is precisely why these issues don't get solved. Lecturing people about how they don't deserve the land that they are on is counter-productive and, quite frankly, idiotic. Most of the lands that were stolen from the tribes are currently held by either the US government or certain well-to-do corporations. Private citizens owning either 1/2 acre or a few dozen acres are chump change compared to the government holding onto sacred lands like The Black Hills for the purpose of tourist attractions.

Instead of going on and on about how evil individual Americans are for owning some land that may or may not have been a small scrap of hunting ground for indigenous peoples, you might consider many of the National Parks that everyone insists that no human should be allowed to live on are also Indian lands, and they far exceed the small plots owned by a few red blooded, good old fellow Americans.

I don't see how people can ever trust intellectuals like Hobbes considering the fact that he was hired by - guess who - the state, to provide enlightenment-era quasi-secular justification for its existence. He and his ilk have no credulity whatsoever.


And there would be virtually zero unemployment if not for the oligopoly-praising barriers to entry which are quite vigorously enforced, much to the peoples' ironic glee.

There will always be plenty of work available to the low wagers. I don't see the 2007-08 recession damaging their workforce too much. If anything, there might be more of them coming up across because the crisis has hit Mexico too.

I am Mexican (and no, I don't have a "dish-washing cousin" up there) and many mojados have came back to Mexico because (they say) there isn't any more jobs due to the recession. Acording to these guys all the areas they used to work on are paralized.

first point - I do think maybe we should learn from what was wrought upon the Injuns - they had no immigration policy and look what happened to their culture, their values, their way-of-life, hell, look at what happed to them!!!
I do not want the same to happen to us
each race brings with it their morals, what they value, so when they are numerically dominant in any geographical area, they are able to turn their environment into one with which they are most comfortable - with which they most identify - just look at the vast changes in the SW because of the MASSIVE influx of Mestizos - or go to any Chinatown

second point - that 'poem' was written by a proto-Zionist with an agenda - it has nothing to do with the foundations of America
does not the irony baffle anyone else? she supports a homogeneous homeland for her own kind, but for everyone else diversity is her answer??!!?


but it truly wasn't until the 1965 Immigration Act when the Congress ignored a strong majority of the American population's wishes and began a policy that discriminated against those wishing to immigrate from Europe, and instead encouraged massive non-European immigration


that is what is being reported here as well

Perhaps some problems could be solved if there was more regulation of employment. If employers were forced to pay illegals the same amount as any other worker, then that'd eliminate the reason for hiring them in the first place.

But then again, maybe us Aussies have the right idea by simply saying "Fuck off! We're full!"

They are called illegals because they are in the country illegally. Employers aren't supposed to be hiring them in the first place...it's ILLEGAL. So, how can they force employers to pay them the same amount as any other worker when they aren't supposed to be on the work force to begin with?

Companies face large fines if found hiring illegal workers.

Yes, that's why there needs to be more regulation.

Perhaps you're confusing yourself.

What would more regulation do? These people are here ILLEGALLY. That means they came across the border ILLEGALLY or came here through legal means and let their legal means expire. Either way, they aren't supposed to be here. What would more regulation do? And by regulation, can you be less vague? What, specifically, is your solution and what regulation do you think would work?

Remember, these people aren't exactly making their presence known in the community...BECAUSE they are illegal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/immigr ... index.html

Read that...a sad but funny story about an illegal immigrant who tried to leave the country with 59K. Paid no taxes and was stopped, suspected of dealing drugs.

Well, I'm really just spitballing here, I don't know what exactly could be done. But my thoughts were that if there was more time and effort devoted to rooting out illegal immigrant workers it might remove what attracts the immigrants in the first place. Perhaps it would be better than building a lot of shoddy walls, because those aren't doing squat.

For one, if they were not considered illegal, they could vouch for their rights. There would not be such abuse of these illegal workers, and they couldn't undercut American laborers unfairly due to this.

As one of the previous posters stated my country (Mexico) is NOT a third-world country. There is rich and poor like everywhere else. With the amount of resources we have we should be doing really well but the problem is the amount of corruption that exists in the government.

I'll give an example: Say I run a red light or a stopsign and/or I'm speeding and get pulled over. I can pay off the cop with 100-150 usually (give or take 8 to 10 USD) The politicians here especially the dumb fuck of the president we have (Felipe Claderon) doesn't do shit and just steals our tax money.

On the other hand we have the drug cartels which have a very big hold over the country. People in my city get kidnapped and killed quit a bit. On a sarcastic note it doe shelp deal with overpopulation. What io don't like is americans complaining about people taking all their jobs when they are NOT willing to do them in the first place. I have an aunt who went there illegally 15 years ago. She worked her ass off for those fifteen years and now is an american citizen and has a nice little apartment in a nice neighbourhood.

II lived in canada for a couple years during high school and everybody said that mexicans were lazy thieving slobs. What I don't understand is if us mexicans are so fucking lazy how come we hold most of the jobs in the U.S.? Is it because were so lazty or that if in an economical situation dire enough we are willing to work our fucking asses off for a wage under minnimum at swatshop type hours? I was frequently called a wetback and an illegal usually jokingly but I have relatives that at some point were illegal and I don't take kindly to those sort of jokes.

I was born in the U.S. so ergo I'm an American citizen. My mother is Canadian so she got me a canadian passport when I was young and thats what I've used since I was younger. Quite simply for one reason. People have a terrible view on Americans and as such will treat them like shit in places like airports and borders. But not Canadians. So if anybody asks I'm Canadian. I am also a mexicancitizen so I can live anywhere in North America.

Think about it, if conditions were so shitty in your home country would you risk everything just for a chance for better life in another country such as the U.S? I would.

Our state does have regulations. Any employer will be fined and audited if they hire undocumented workers. It's a way to deter the illegal immigration but so far it needs alot of time and revisions to work.

Yeah, there are quite a few 1/16ths and 1/8ths and 1/4ths out there having 'spiritual awakenings' and 'getting in touch with their Native roots'. Typical confused American heterogeneity. Every race and ethnicity since the dawn of human civilization has been enslaved, invaded, or obliterated at the hands of another. Why do we only pity the most recent victims? I guess everyone needs to feel 'oppressed'.

Anyway, this topic has nothing to do with the present discussion. Consider, instead, the NAFTA provisions that re-wrote the Mexican constitution. There was a clause that provided for land distribution to the public, and it had to be repealed in order to guarantee NAFTA's passing. US agri-business came in, the farmers were kicked out and had to move to the cities, where there were too many of them and wages plummeted. Then, we wonder why they come over here in droves. I'm not saying this alone is the reason for our out-of-control immigration issue, just that it's a hell of a lot more germane to the discussion than the Indian thing.

In the purest sense, we do not need immigration from south of the border. That is, the country would operate well without 15 million immigrants if we were used to doing so. We have become so dependent on this population, however, that we would, indeed, be 'kaput' without it. Many sectors of the economy would be ruined if someone were to up and tell these employers that everyone has to get minimum wage, now.

The simple reason is why we need to stop illegal immigration is because a majority of the money isnt being pumped back into our economy. It's being sent back to mexico. It's leeching our economy.


Also the fact that these people come into our country and are tax free and have us provide their children with school with none of the tax money coming from the parents is utter crap.

This is why we need to use the system. Let's not make this about "fighting the man" and being peaceful. If we said you can come stay in our country without papers and money Everyone would come here. Guess who we Americans would be working for? All those Illegal Immigrants.

I say wetaxpayers have the right to say who stays on our land and on what terms... "free" isnt one of them, atleast not for me.