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Neowulf
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:12 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:43 am 
 

Black shriek (Varg Vikernes, Burzum)
Black growl, unless you cover that in some other category. What I mean is the classic, rather highpitched growl of black metal.
Inhale (unfamiliar with performers)
Deranged/random screaming maybe? Like Lifelover.

Edit: First on the page... I was answering the previous post.

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:21 pm 
 

Thanks mate, I forgot to write down the black metal vocals... I wrote that just ahead of me going to sleep, haha.

To recap from my last post - I'm doing a video on youtube on metal screaming and how to do it - techniques, care for your cords, etc and need some help on a bit of info. Right now I'm asking for help with the styles of metal singing/screaming.

thus far, we have:

Death Scream (Chuck Schuldiner, Death)
Brutal Death (Karl Sanders, Nile)
Pig Squeals (unfamiliar with artists)
Burping (Antti Boman, Demilich)
Thrash Scream (Tom Araya, Slayer)
Standard Clean Singing (Ozzy Osbounre, Black Sabbath)
Black Metal Shriek (Varg Vikernes, Burzum)
Black Metal growl (can't think of a decent well-known example - would Mayhem count in the Varg era? Those vocals were fucked)
Inhale (unfamiliar with performers)
Deranged/random screaming maybe? Like Lifelover.

Thanks all for any help you can give :)

cheers,
--N

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:47 pm 
 

i think id be easier to understand if you said like low inhale for nile and high inhale for "pig sqeels" waking the cadaver, fuck im dead

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:23 am 
 

crustcorestenchhead9 wrote:
i think id be easier to understand if you said like low inhale for nile and high inhale for "pig sqeels" waking the cadaver, fuck im dead
I don't think Nile does inhaled - can anyone back or dismiss this statement?

cheers,
--N

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:55 am 
 

Nile does death metal exhale, that I know for sure :)

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:04 am 
 

Nyaricus wrote:
Thanks mate, I forgot to write down the black metal vocals... I wrote that just ahead of me going to sleep, haha.

To recap from my last post - I'm doing a video on youtube on metal screaming and how to do it - techniques, care for your cords, etc and need some help on a bit of info. Right now I'm asking for help with the styles of metal singing/screaming.

thus far, we have:

Death Scream (Chuck Schuldiner, Death)
Brutal Death (Karl Sanders, Nile)
Pig Squeals (unfamiliar with artists)
Burping (Antti Boman, Demilich)
Thrash Scream (Tom Araya, Slayer)
Standard Clean Singing (Ozzy Osbounre, Black Sabbath)
Black Metal Shriek (Varg Vikernes, Burzum)
Black Metal growl (can't think of a decent well-known example - would Mayhem count in the Varg era? Those vocals were fucked)
Inhale (unfamiliar with performers)
Deranged/random screaming maybe? Like Lifelover.

Thanks all for any help you can give :)

cheers,
--N


Mayhem may count, but in the Dead or Maniac eras (listen to Live in Leipzig if you haven't). I think a more traditional Black Metal vocal would be something like early Emperor. Try Negator's Old Black for a good example. Don't discount Darkthrone though, so many bands have copied them, they may as well be counted as the standard for all black metal.

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Neowulf
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:12 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:26 am 
 

Falsetto singing if you want to include that separately. An example would be King Diamond.

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:00 pm 
 

SpiralLoiter wrote:
Nile does death metal exhale, that I know for sure :)
Yeah, I listened to my albums I have of them, an NO fucking way is that inhaled. Way too br00tal, haha.

Neowulf, I suppose falsetto should count. There are a couple of power metalheads which got kicked in the crotch too many times s a kid to forget about falsetto :D

cheers,
--N

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:12 pm 
 

damn not this debate again... im sorry but they inhale, its a very deep inhale and i can do mine like that. if you listen closely to it you can hear the "dying down" effect you get when inhale a bit less harder which would make sence since they are ending what there are saying. but watever thinkw at ya want

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deviant_messiah
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:23 am
Posts: 218
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:32 pm 
 

Would Devil Doll's Mr. Doctor help, for the "completely deranged psychopathic prophet" vocal style? :D
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SCMugen
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:26 am 
 

crustcorestenchhead9 wrote:
damn not this debate again... im sorry but they inhale, its a very deep inhale and i can do mine like that. if you listen closely to it you can hear the "dying down" effect you get when inhale a bit less harder which would make sence since they are ending what there are saying. but watever thinkw at ya want


Nile does like 7 different types of growls and shrieks, they use three vocalists! (Sanders, that ugly greek guitarist dude and the bass player) Some of the vocals they use are inhaled and some are definitely exhaled (Sander's normal growl for example, the most dominant type of growl they use)

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ViolentIllusion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 pm 
 

Slayer isn't reallt using a Trash scream. They're actually using a nearly clean vocal style. I guess you better call it 'Trash Heat Vocals' or whatever.
Trash screams are more like Machine Head and stuff like that.
I could be wrong, but ok ... :d

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 2903
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:13 pm 
 

Trash :lol:

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:04 pm 
 

Trash can vocals? Fo' sure. :P
Just joking...

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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:01 pm 
 

ViolentIllusion wrote:
Slayer isn't reallt using a Trash scream. They're actually using a nearly clean vocal style. I guess you better call it 'Trash Heat Vocals' or whatever.
Trash screams are more like Machine Head and stuff like that.
I could be wrong, but ok ... :d

Considering Slayer is one of the founding fathers of thrash metal, I'm fairly certain that he's using a thrash scream ;)

cheers,
--N

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Only_Inhuman
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:17 am
Posts: 1
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:25 am 
 

I was wondering how to make the melodeath screams like Anders Fridén (In Flames) or Alexi Laiho (Children Of Bodom) or like Richard Sjunnesson (Sonic Syndicate)... I mean i don't wanna scream like them because imitating someone is totally useless but making those kind of screams interests me very much. Can somebody teach me ?

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ziel
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 8
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:50 pm 
 

Lately, I've been wanting to practice some guttural/deathmetal vocals (as a hobby not for a band) and I've been scanning through the thread and I've found some bits of info to get me started. Right now I can't for the life of me even figure out how to make a low sound WITHOUT using my throat :(

Few questions:
You're not supposed to use your throat for death vocals right?
If so, how do you use your diaphragm?

Also, what do you guys think of Robbe Kok from Disavowed?
He's my favorite vocalist right now and I like how low he can get and he can change his vocal style a lot. From very low growls to the guttural "screeches".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqejzsOw7ok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbL8yeoAY44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igziu1qMdSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbTISbHVdy0

I'd definitely like to be able to do vocals such as these someday. :)

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:25 am 
 

You use your throat, but you don't tense it. By pushing air using your dump, while relaxing your throat, your two chords will vibrate without hitting each other (too much), thus producing the noise.
However, this is not the style explained by Melissa Cross. She says that you do it using the muscles above your chords (which I have no idea how to do). Anyway, the stuff explained by Cross is for hardcore-style bands (metalcore etc).

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:59 pm 
 

SpiralLoiter wrote:
You use your throat, but you don't tense it. By pushing air using your dump, while relaxing your throat, your two chords will vibrate without hitting each other (too much), thus producing the noise.
However, this is not the style explained by Melissa Cross. She says that you do it using the muscles above your chords (which I have no idea how to do). Anyway, the stuff explained by Cross is for hardcore-style bands (metalcore etc).

Correct me if I'm wrong.


yeah the way i explain is it just get your pitch and stay the same pitch and just get louder, and your using your diahgram, your abs tense up a bit

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:55 am 
 

Yeah, just sing a pitch quietly with your chest voice, hum if needed, and raise the volume using your dump, you'll get the growl automatically.

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Dragos_Darkstar
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:54 pm 
 

I am starting a band and can do basically any form of harsh vocals, except the inhaled stuff (which I'm not really interested in doing so I'm not looking for advice on that) and the really high pitched stuff like Dani Filth in Cradle of Filth, and stuff like Black Label by Lamb of God (I can do screams, just not to that pitch. My voice blanks out when I try :puppy:). I was wondering if anybody could give me some pointers on that. I'm also more than willing to give any tips or advice that I can think of for other forms of harsh vocals if anybody wants some advice. Sorry if my advice isn't the best though, I more or less just 'do' the vocals, I haven't ever really thought about 'how' I do them. But I'll think about it if anybody asks a question.

One bit of advice I do have for people who can do growls but want to do screams: What I did to start doing screams was, just work your way up in pitch a little bit at a given set of time. Don't try and do a big change in pitch. Just do your growls, but a little higher. After about a week or so of letting your throat (sp?) get used to that, go up a little bit higher. It took me about a month to go from growls to being able to scream, so yes, it can take a while. But if you do it this way, you'll have a bit of a growl sounding background noise to your screams. After a while though, you should be able to just push straight into the scream without the growl background noise in the back of your throat.

And the best advice that can be given has been said many times in this thread. If it hurts, STOP.

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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:44 pm 
 

I've got a question for people how have their own PA system etc..
I sort of play guitar a bit too, and I am working on doing vocals (growls).

The only way I can get my voice (because my growls are not very loud) to be heard is by turning my guitar volume to 25-40% and having my vocals on at least 75%. Does anyone know what settings the "professionals" use? Do they have to vocals the same volume as guitar or what?

ziel wrote:
... Few questions:
You're not supposed to use your throat for death vocals right?
If so, how do you use your diaphragm?


I don't have much experience, but when you breathe use that to help belt out some sounds, sort of open up your throat more. You should feel more sound\power coming from your chest.

ziel wrote:
Also, what do you guys think of Robbe Kok from Disavowed?
...


He is pretty good (I only watched the first video). Nothing extraordinary, but he is good at what he does. I find at least trying to changing pitch (if you can) can actually warm you up more for growls. Like I said I'm no pro, I'm just sharing my vocal experiment results.

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Blake2
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 10:17 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:53 pm 
 

I do a fairly braod range of screaming style vocals. Im working on my black metal sound. It takes a hell of a lot more throat power. I can do anything from The Agony Scene to moderately low styled stuff. I cant go Deicide low or anything, but I can reach some growls.

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:42 am 
 

Black Metal and throat power? :S
You don't have to use your throat at all when doing black metal...

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Blake2
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 10:17 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:47 pm 
 

SpiralLoiter wrote:
Black Metal and throat power? :S
You don't have to use your throat at all when doing black metal...


...you may not have to but you certainly can. I think it sounds better than a chest scream. I can hit higher notes through my throat.

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:04 am 
 

It hurts though...

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Drake_Miriel
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:45 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:00 am 
 

I have a decent scream going, but I have a feq questions
1) How can I take this scream and achieve something more like old-school black metal (like Bathory, Immortal) meets melodeath (like Dark Tranquillity, the guy from Tristania)?
2) Are there any things I can do to help prolong my endurance? I'm able to do a decently long verse, but I need water in between them. Problem is, several of the songs I do have long, climactic parts to them that require more intense vocals than normal, faster, and without time in between them to drink some water.
3) I'm asking only because I'm apprehensive of trying, but if I were to arch my back one way or the other, position my shoulders a certain way, or hand my neck a certain direction, what impact would that have on what comes out, and would it be hazardous?

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Blake2
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 10:17 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:30 pm 
 

From my experience, to answer part one, old school black type stuff relies on rhasp and force. If you already have the chug chug style scream, the kind used in say Unearth, you can develope it from there. I started out with vocals like that. You have to push them from your stomach then through your throat, while using your throat to make the rhasp sound. Or you could pull a Shagrath just use pissed off robot vocals.

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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1714
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:50 pm 
 

I think for "Deranged/random screaming" you could put down the vocals on Deathcult for Eternity.

I can do a wicked Suffocation imitation, it's mostly in the stomach but the shape of your mouth/jaw is also important.
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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:16 pm 
 

Last night I was mucking around with some vocals. I usually try to do fills when listening to song. Anyways, I was going for about 20+ minutes just doing growls or w\e and then I put on some Vader and I though I sounded OK, like I though I could do a "scale" Vader vocal. By scale I just mean that obviously my voice wont be the exact same, but the have same style\method. Just thought I'd share the fact that warming up did seem to help quite a bit when doing growls and such. Also, I was drinking Irish creme so maybe I wasn't as good as I thought I sounded hahah.

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demiphoenix
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 11:31 pm
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:31 pm 
 

i have a problem, when i sing regularly, it hurts my throat, and when i do too much harsh at once, it hurts my throat

are there any exercises or drinks or anything that someone suggests i do/take before singing practice

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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:44 pm 
 

demiphoenix wrote:
i have a problem, when i sing regularly, it hurts my throat, and when i do too much harsh at once, it hurts my throat

are there any exercises or drinks or anything that someone suggests i do/take before singing practice


Avoid drinking anything very cold, actually warmer is better. Make sure you keep your throat moist. Read some of the previous posts on this thread...

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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1390
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:54 pm 
 

I never thought I'd post in this thread but so far my harsh vocals are very limited, I can only do kind of 'mid-range' stuff from Forefather to SYL style, probably more but I don't really growl that much cos I have shitall privacy. I want to be able to do black metal cackly Immortal style or Burzum shrieks, just to start with.

Also I'm super in love with Lembetu of Loits' growl style http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HyvY_UVOzt8
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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:53 pm 
 

I cannot maintain vocals like Immortal , but I did have a similar tone(?) going for a minute once. It seemed like I was using a more "nasal" sound. Never was able to pull off anything like Burzum... but I just have to keep trying things.

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AliveAndEnraged
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:45 pm 
 

Just out of curiosity, maybe we could somehow get that melissa cross vocal DVD uploaded and post it on here? I'm sure that would help a bunch of people out.

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Stormalv
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 720
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:09 am 
 

A guy I know has some really good extreme vocals, both low and high pitched, I think he has been practising for years, and he's found a very perfect technique to do it, I think he uses his tongue in some sort of way, rolling it, and he uses very little air, so he can sustain the screams very long. But I don't think he could explain it any more detailed than that, does anyone know what technique he could be using? What are you supposed to do with your tongue?

You can hear him here, he's the vocalist of this band: http://www11.nrk.no/urort/user/?id=36534
(press "Lytt" to listen, right above where it says "relaterte prosjekter")
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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:43 am 
 

AliveAndEnraged wrote:
Just out of curiosity, maybe we could somehow get that melissa cross vocal DVD uploaded and post it on here? I'm sure that would help a bunch of people out.


That's a crappy DVD. I have seen it. Doesn't help at all.
Plus, melissa cross trains punk (hardcore) screamers. Growling is different.

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mORUe
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:33 am
Posts: 1
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:36 am 
 

Hi there, nice topic

I think u can refine Death vocals !
At first, even being a Death fan (the band) I cant consider Chuck's vocals as typical death vocals !
Typical is the classic old-school growl, as Corpsegrinder from Cannibal to mention the most popular. So...

DEATH vocals :

- so Chuck's vocals from Death, dunno how to say :\...
maybe I can say high pitched death vocals ?
(there even might be something "heavy" in his vocals)

- regular growl à la Corpsegrinder

- "blackened" high pitched death vocals (also Corspegrinder, Chris Barnes, Julien from Benighted in some parts)

- looow guttural, Devourment-like, Internal Suffering, Artery Eruption, Soils of Fate also in a more old-school way

Special "case" for some of Ruben Rosas (from Devourment) vocals, for example in the featuring for Soils of Fate, Despondency's vocalist does it too from time to time

- new school death growl, often said "pig shriek" (and I DONT MEAN reverse / inhaled) as Rob in first Disavowed album, high screams of both former & actual Skinless vocalists, Goratory too

For me, I mean in the way I do it, this is just the "same moves" as Devourment style vocals, I just contract more or less throat's muscles to pitch it to the tone I want. Of course it also gets influence on the power of the growl

(still the same technique in mid range tones, can give another render making it almost another style, getting a bit lower makes it sounding less piggy, and as guttural as Devourment, maybe Shawn from Insidious Decrepancy/Viral Load, etc can be an illustration...)

- regular inhaled, mmmh dunno much... lets have as an example fisrt scream from new Babykiller version from Devourment (I think)

- low inhaled, Voracious Gangrene, Myopia (1st one, Dancing on landmines)

Thats all I see by now. Hard work as every vocalist (ok not EVERY hehe) gives personality to his growls, so there might as much styles as vocalists

Maybe I forgot some, maybe my examples aint the best... complete if you feel it wrong or too short.

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PrinceofEmptiness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:10 pm
Posts: 162
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:20 am 
 

It's damn easy to do inhaled vocals. I pretty much got it down pact.
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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:58 pm 
 

My latest update :O
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IiWpEhjoaGg

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