Ok, fair enough.

I don't know the context where that was said, but I would disagree with it, even if you dug up a video where Iommi, Butler and Dio all three say it.

It's the opposite of being accurate, although if you squint really hard and your vision blurs enough, it might seem to have hit the mark... Somewhat. Thus, reductionism.


Dio sounds like Dio, but other than that, I don't hear it, sorry - I'm not going to get the fuck out with that. More than some people would admit? I don't know, because I don't know who those people you're referring to are, nor how much are they willing to "admit" anything.

I take particular issue with this remark. Sabbath requires a certain standard of heaviness/seriousness? Ever heard of Planet Caravan, man?

No.




Last time I checked most people hated that song, and most of the other ballads (lack of a better term to describe Changes, Solitude, etc.).

Always found those mellower moments pretty integral to early Sabbath's sound myself. It's not like we're talking about freaking Feels Good to Me or something.

Whoa whoa whoa, let's not talk crazy now. I feel like most people either like Planet Caravan for what it is or are rather indifferent to it. I used to hate it but that's because I was a thrash dullard who didn't like anything that wasn't riffs.

The part I actually take issue with is comparing it to Changes. Planet Caravan is an odd, bizarre, and spacey little interlude. Changes is hot fucking garbage in every conceivable way.


Also back up, I just noticed this part:



The hell are people not wanting to admit? Is Rainbow suddenly uncool or something?

Oddly enough I actually find Changes the most listenable due to its depressing atmosphere which fits Sabbath nicely.

Sabbath literally didn't have "one sound". After Vol. 4, they didn't take the doom approach at almost every turn like before. Yes, Dio's albums changed the feel to a more positive sounding one, but seeing that this is now 37 years after the release, that shouldn't matter, seeing that they got heavier and muddier with "Born Again", "Seventh Star" was basically a glam metal album, and all of the Tony Martin records just blended in with other typical '80s metal records. There is no one Sabbath sound; it's not like this is the ONE exception or anything, and even on the early doomy ones, there were still ballads, there were still "happier" sounding ones, etc.

Yeah, people don't say it often, but Sabbath have always been a very eclectic and experimental kind of band. Their core sound always remained intact, mostly due to Iommi's instantly recognizable riffing style, but if you were to put, say, Master of Reality, Dehumanizer and Headless Cross side by side, it'd be easy to see that they're very distinct from each other, stylistically and aesthetically speaking.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, including TrooperEd who's opinion on this topic I don't share at all, but he pretty much summed up in that review the reason why I've hated MTV with a passion ever since the mid 1990s. Seeing the early Dio albums as being "Rainbow" sounding, let alone "A Rainbow album" is a highly reductionist view of the transitional character of late 70s psychedelic rock/metal and how it differed from the NWOBHM, which was closer to where Sabbath's sound was when Dio entered the picture. There are certain similarities that existed between the soloing styles of Iommi and Blackmore just by virtue of both guitarists essentially coming out of the same era, and some of this bled into their songwriting to an extent. However, when you closely examine the riffing approach of each guitarist, there is a significant distance in how they approach constructing a riff, with Iommi being more minimalist and concerned with impact, whereas most of Blackmore's material with Rainbow during the Dio period had a bit more range and would often blend with the keyboards and bass (something he brought with him from Deep Purple).

Getting past the guitarists, Geezer's bass playing was far more prominent and prone to competing with the guitars for prominence, Roger Glover never came off that way. By the same token, Bill Ward's drumming on Heaven & Hell was far more restrained than what Cozy Powell brought to Rainbow, whereas there is maybe a case to be made that Vinnie Appice got a little closer to sounding like Powell on "The Mob Rules", but this also coincided with a darker sound that was less similar to Rainbow in most other respects.

Again, I'm not looking to start a flame war here, but as far as metal from the 80s and before goes, Iann Robinson was and still is an absolute fucking moron who would piss me off whenever he gave an opinion on metal music. His way of viewing metal history was not all that uncommon at the time when he was on MTV, and was part and parcel of why I've generally hated a lot of the mainstream American metal albums that were put out between 1992 and 2003, because that same mindset tended to be bound up in the music itself. Oversimplify the history of metal, separate out the 10-15% of it that you liked prior to 1992, and then take a massive shit on the rest of it, you know, because "unique generational identity" or some other stupid, edge-lord bullshit.

You guys aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

Also, Roger Glover didn't join Rainbow til after Dio was gone.

Blackmore's writing was definitely more in the classic vein where chord progressions, melodies and solos build the framework of a song, whereas Iommi's energetic, quickly looping riffing propelled the songs forward with more intensity. This left a fairly different role for Dio to fill. His vocals in Rainbow merely complement the songs that were almost perfectly complete even without vocals. In Sabbath, his role was much more crucial, especially in driving songs like Neon Knights and Turn Up the Night, as his melodies had a far greater impact on the overall melodic character of the song, and at times, the whole melodic narrative of the song was entirely up for him to create.

Not to mention the sound and production. Blackmore's tone was definitely more an oldschool crunch, with great clarity and note separation, but much less sustain and heaviness. Iommi (with the assistance of Butler) pushed the boundaries of heavy rhythm guitar sound since Sabbath's first record, and during the Dio era, he was still in the vanguard of contemporary heavy metal sound. When discussing Iommi's guitar tone, Butler's role in that should never be underestimated, and I reckon Blackmore didn't even quite have anyone like that. I mean, did anyone, except Tony Iommi?

Yeah, I kind of threw him in unintentionally because I was focused on how Blackmore's playing was heavily informed by his time with Glover and Lord in Deep Purple prior to forming Rainbow. However, I would state that both Bob Daisley and Jimmy Bain's approach to bass playing on those records was more comparable to Glover's than Butler's. In fact, I think there would be a stronger case that Dio's first two solo albums were closer to Rainbow than the two Sabbath albums in question if you focus on the rhythm section and discount Vivian Campbell's sound.

I would argue that the problem isn't seeing the forest for the trees, but rather how we are categorizing the forest. A forest comprised primarily of oak and hickory trees looks a lot different than one comprised predominantly of pines. Again, I'm not trying to start a flame war here and there is some degree of commonality between Rainbow and Sabbath due to both being made up of members coming out of the same era of music. My principle problem with MTV's token rock/metal personnel historically is that they always tended to push an "Ozzy-centered" view of Black Sabbath, and that tendency is in your review to a certain extent. I understand why MTV did this, they were more concerned with visual presentation than music, which goes with the territory of being a television channel. The problem is that everyone got to be so obsessed with visuals that they tend to either forget there is a band behind the singer doing all the theatrics or they downplay the significance of the rest of the band.



Yes, there were massive differences in production and songwriting, which were fairly massive. To this day Blackmore tends towards more of a mellow, classic rock guitar tone, even through his riffing style is heavier than most actual classic rock. I also concur that Butler's role is probably the most significant divergence between Sabbath and every other band from that era, and there was an equally dramatic change in Sabbath's sound following Geezer leaving as there was when Ozzy left, though I'd still argue that Iommi largely kept the signature Sabbath sound going on most of the Tony Martin era to a sufficient degree, particularly on Headless Cross and Cross Purposes.

Great Protestant review, bayern.

Suffocation, "gratuitously gory lyrics"? Nope.

"I proceeded to hack, several more times. A pile of flesh, now lies before me"- Thrones of Blood from Pierced from Within

"Cartilage reaching gelency"- Synthetically Revived, I watch this every day in my life and this person somehow still speaks as she wastes away, refusing to eat, barely moving, and nearly unable to make it to a bathroom.

"I began to remove her intestines, stopping to take a nibble"- Marital Decimation from Breeding the Spawn

"A maggot infested corpse stares dismal"- Infecting the Crypts from Human Waste

"Your flesh is warm upon my face, impaled with a collection of sickness"- Surgery of Impalement from Souls to Deny

Sure, they're not Cannibal Corpse, but I'll defend this point at least. If you've lived in blood and shit as I have with a 96 year old matriarch day after day, you'll understand that these things are pretty gorey to me, especially since last week I saw my grandmother open half her forehead and gush all over the floor. Blood thinners on a person not long for this world lead to a huge mess, especially when skin splits so that the skull is easily visible.

You know, I was hoping that maybe I wrote a review worthy of some kind of appreciation, even with all the stress that has been going on at home lately, but instead I see this comment that couldn't get past the first paragraph of a long, and hopefully good, homage and analysis of the evolution of a band that has gotten me through some very tough times, and still does even as today gets tougher than yesterday.

Thanks for bursting my bubble bud.

Edit: Oh, I completely forgot about this fantastic refrain: "You are so beautiful; I bathe myself in the entrails of you, submerge myself in your blood, and wear your flesh, you are so fucking beautiful". 2006 Self-titled album. He didn't tip that dead whore so I guess there was no gratuity in that gore.

Not that it's worth saying, exactly, but demonomania isn't historically the most thoughtful poster. One liner dismissals are essentially the most one can reasonably expect.


Good work maintaining a sense of humor through all that. Fuckin hell. I lived with my grandmother while she slid into the dismal well of dimentia, it wasn't exactly gorey like your situation (which sounds truly horrible), but seeing an otherwise kind personality erode into spiteful, hateful, and disfunctional/disorganized behavior (rubbing shit on the wall of the bathroom, etc) is its own kind of extremity. She was on bloodthinners, too, to avoid stroke, and it made it impossible to help her move around without badly bruising her. It was really really hard to watch her go like that. So .. just wanted to reach out a bit and say I'm sorry you're having to go through that.

For my own part, I thought the review was pretty damn good. There's a lot of .. words, I suppose, and some editing and reorganization could have streamlined it, but that didn't make it bad so much as just distract from the substantial and good parts like this: "Rather than shove its every fluctuation down the listener's throat, there is a nuance to this album that can easily go unnoticed in the first listens, something that shows its fury as one that burns for longer, not to be taken lightly, for each assault is coldly calculated, premeditated." I think the panultimate paragraph is quite good, and the whole review shows a lot of deep thought and emotional connection to the work.

Feel free to put future work in the Workshop and I'll see about helping polish an already sturdy ability.

That new Mastercastle review made me laugh. I love ultra positive reviews that are thinly veiled response posts to ultra negative reviews.

Thanks Grave_Wyrm for your kind words, I did get rambly and off track on that post and with the review, need to tone that back a bit.

That review actually makes the album sound somewhat interesting, except I already know that the "atmosphere" is one shitty Pagan's Mind riff repeated for ten songs. At least he's honest about it not being exciting or adventurous in any way.

That new Six Feet Under review is pretty funny, especially this part:



It's as if no matter how hard Barnes desperately tries to emulate those two masters, all he can muster is growls. It's the only voice he has, the vocal chords of a bear.

Yeah, it's textbook missing the forest for the trees kinda drivel right there. Complaining about growls not having emotional range is like whining about how your blender doesn't bake bread.

It looks much worse out of context, it actually sorta makes sense considering the review is for one of their Priest/Maiden cover album.

Still funny though.

Since when did Paul Di'Anno have an air raid siren?

Great review by gasmask_colostomy of Satyricon's "Nemesis Divina". "Mother North" is and will always be a defining moment in that band's history and he gave that song a great paragraph within such a well-rounded and well-written review.

Also, he did so well on that Primordial review that my tabled one is altogether gone. He put into words just how hollow most of "Redemption at the Puritan's Hand" seemed compared to the earlier Primordial albums. Even though the drinking song, "Bloodied Yet Unbowed" can keep you raising a cup, the rest of the album seems like it lost its way, as though the band still had the old blueprint but not the passion for their craft. Plus, for me at least, the clean singing showed how weak the lyrics were while the most memorable scream is "oh death, where are your claws?"

https://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/ ... nts/411594

Call me crazy, but I think most bands are thankful to not be in school anymore and don't really appreciate having their albums treated like 8th grade term papers. Reminds me way too much of my own reviews back in 2005 when I first started.



There is that one scream that Di'Anno did on Wrathchild that kinda sounds like a reverse air raid siren, but that's about it.

On top of that, I have no idea as to where he's coming up with the exact percentages for that, anyway. Where's the fucking rubric?

The rubric is so complex and multi-faceted and intricate that none of you, or me, could understand it ever.

I'll be damned if I ever give arbitrary points for "technical skill". God forbid this dude ever reviews doom metal.

I just bake "basic competency" into the score by default. :I

My scoring system is based entirely on whether or not I think I could beat the band in a pie eating contest.

This is why Babymetal would get a straight up 0%.

I completely rewrote two of my previously rejected reviews, hopefully the changes will be sufficient for addition here.

This makes Haggard the best metal band ever

Pffft, that'd be Fear Factory. Try and beat THOSE guys in a pie eating contest.

Really I'm just lucky the guitarist of Bowling for Soup doesn't play in a metal band.

They aren't recent, but Metantoine's reviews for several Ningen-Isu albums introduced me to a band I'd put in my top 10 any day of the week. The reviews do a good job of illustrating how eclectic they are as a group, but I don't think it gets stated enough how fucking weird Kenichi Suzuki really is. You can hear it in the music, but I'd recommend watching some of their music videos, because he is one of the most creepily entertaining performers I've ever seen in any group. They're one band I'd love to see live but probably never will

Poison Idea would annihilate everyone in that scenario.

I knew absolutely nothing about metal in 1992, but I just can't imagine that there is any truth to this statement.

@ thrashmaniac87

You are absolutely right. F&J died a sudden death as soon as "When the Storm Comes down" was released. Nobody took notice of "Cuatro", at least in Germany.