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Diesel 11
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:25 am
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:49 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Killers rules, the fact that people would choose post-1990s Harris shite over the golden era just further proves that they're deaf.

This is what I think of people who say Killers is great. I’m sorry, I don’t get it. What you consider “shite” is some of the band’s most personal, mature work and I love it.

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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 493
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:12 pm 
 

I mean I agree, I think it rules too, but it's still one of my least favorites.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:45 pm 
 

Diesel 11 wrote:
Acrobat wrote:
Killers rules, the fact that people would choose post-1990s Harris shite over the golden era just further proves that they're deaf.

This is what I think of people who say Killers is great. I’m sorry, I don’t get it. What you consider “shite” is some of the band’s most personal, mature work and I love it.

Surely, The Angel and the Gambler is the peak of musical maturity in Maiden.
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Diesel 11
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:25 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:15 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Diesel 11 wrote:
This is what I think of people who say Killers is great. I’m sorry, I don’t get it. What you consider “shite” is some of the band’s most personal, mature work and I love it.

Surely, The Angel and the Gambler is the peak of musical maturity in Maiden.

It’s definitely not, but it’s got more ideas that it succeeds in pulling off than most of Killers. I would rather be asked by Blaze if I know he’s a savior than be told by Paul how he lays here, lyin’ on the bed.

It’s an unpopular opinion, certainly.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:39 pm 
 

Not sure if repeating a chorus ad nauseam counts as pulling off lots of successful ideas :-P Oi, just kiddin', man. But yeah, I definitely don't share that position.

The raw grime of Killers is definitely a lot of its appeal, and even though Maiden would become a much more refined machine later, I think that there's no questioning how the punk roots of the sophomore only heighten its budding metallic glory. It's fast, it's barbaric, and it's vulgar, but it's got a certain class to it as well, like a Cockney thug who'll stab you in an alley and go listen to Mozart later. I think that there's a lot to love there.
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Diesel 11
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:12 pm 
 

Believe me, if I would love to love Killers, but I just don’t hear the same things most others seem to. While it’s got some good stuff, most of the songs feel half-baked and could have used more time in the oven. Which actually makes sense, given that most of the songs were leftovers from earlier sessions, from what I hear. Really, I think the album just demonstrates that the band needed a little more time to truly become the masters they are. Please don’t tell me that “All my love’s inside of you!” is a great line from the band. :P

I think it’s interesting to note that as of late, the more hardcore Maiden fans are coming around to my point of view. There was a time when Virtual XI was considered the absolute worst, but nowadays Killers has also become a contender. Perhaps not so much on sites like this one, but among deeper sects of the fan base.

Now as for The Angel and the Gambler, I do like it for a few reasons. Firstly, it’s simply a fun song. Yes, the repetition is insane, but I’m not too fussed by it because it’s very fun to sing along to. It’s the kinda song you play during a road trip. And secondly, the stuff mixed in among the repetition actually tell an interesting story. One of the reasons I love Maiden so much is their ability to project images from the lyrics to my mind. When I hear TAATG, I can see the Gambler, down on his luck, wasting away his life, the Angel, coming down to save him, the inner strife, the metaphorical crossroads that the man has come to...

With Killers, I don’t get much of that, which is why I just don’t care for the album too much.

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TrooperEd
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:21 am 
 

Angel & The Gambler is such a sorry ripoff of Won't Get Fooled Again its not even funny.


I admit, as awful as the Blaze albums are, they each have a song or two that I still love. Sign of the Cross, Futureal, Man on The Edge, Edge of Darkness, Lightning Strikes Twice and Clansman are all solid tunes.
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Napalm_Satan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:32 am 
 

Killers is not my favourite of the first 7 for sure, but I can't fathom how it's anything close to the crap on Virtual XI.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:19 am 
 

Diesel 11 wrote:
Acrobat wrote:
Killers rules, the fact that people would choose post-1990s Harris shite over the golden era just further proves that they're deaf.

This is what I think of people who say Killers is great. I’m sorry, I don’t get it. What you consider “shite” is some of the band’s most personal, mature work and I love it.


If 'mature' is a synonym for boring then this works. The writing on Killers is more sophisticated, more refined and just damn exciting especially when compared to their "2 week old pint of bitter" recent efforts. In comparison to Harris's past 25+ years of "pick the power chord, whistle along guitar melodies and song title heavy choruses", Killers is a really progressive piece of work. As a stand-alone piece, I'd take it over Number... and Somewhere in Time for 80's Maiden, too.
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Diesel 11
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:25 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:56 am 
 

See, I just really don’t agree with that at all. Killers feels like stale leftover material, whereas the newer stuff really feels like heart and soul has been poured into the work. I wish you could hear what I hear, I guess.

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SweetLeaf95
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:35 am 
 

Well, I'll say this. I like Killers better than the Blaze albums but I appreciate the open mind. I personally like Fear and No Prayer better than Killers, which most usually hate.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am 
 

Killers isn't my favorite old Maiden album but it's definitely a good one and unique for them. It was a younger, primitive band figuring shit out and people who like it think that type of thing is exciting. It's an anomaly because it's actually a bit more retro than even the self titled - it's got a bit of a Thin Lizzy vibe more than their other material does. I feel like a review critiquing it for not being as polished as they got later is sort of missing the point.

This is coming from me and I love their last three albums, by the way. Not a fan of the Blaze albums though. Weak stuff...
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:54 am 
 

No Prayer: The recent review was kinda interesting in that it framed it as a throwback to Killers (which oddly enough I don't think I'd ever heard before) but even with that new perspective it's still just the album with Tailgunner, Holy Smoke, and a shitload of filler for me.

Killers: Probably my #6 or #7 album when it comes to their first seven but that's not really a knock on it since Maiden's original streak is unrivaled in metal history. When you put out seven genre defining classics in a row, one of them has to be seen as the least great one, and that's Killers for me. Still probably an 85+% on its worst day though.

Post-Bruce Maiden: I've said it a million times so I'll just run through it all really quickly. Blaze is a bad singer. Not "bad for Maiden", just bad, and I hate the two albums with him, and it's only partially his fault, because musically they're all drawn out and repetitive and lame as well and I'll probably always be stunned at the positive reception The X Factor has gotten in recent years. I have this conspiracy theory that Harris was really butthurt that the album was a flop and he was convinced that it would've been a huge hit if Bruce sang on it, so he's made up for it by spending the last 20ish years since Bruce came back rewriting it over and over again just to shove it in our faces. "Mature" is indeed a codeword for "boring", and the song-title choruses are beyond incessant at this point. Whenever I complain about it people always bring up Caught Somewhere in Time or Hallowed Be Thy Name as a counterpoint, but what was once an almost unnoticeable quirk that happened like three times in a decade became like 90% of everything they've written in the 30 years afterwards. Maiden are legends and I'll always love them but their best years ended before most people in this conversation were even born.

Futureal is a badass song though, I'll always go to bat for that one.
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:52 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I have this conspiracy theory that Harris was really butthurt that the album was a flop and he was convinced that it would've been a huge hit if Bruce sang on it, so he's made up for it by spending the last 20ish years since Bruce came back rewriting it over and over again just to shove it in our faces. "Mature" is indeed a codeword for "boring", and the song-title choruses are beyond incessant at this point.


Oh my God what are you doing in my head? GET OUT! GETOUT!!!

Seriously I couldn't have said it any better myself. It's also interesting that you think Blaze is a bad singer yet love Running Wild, because the period of Port Royal on, Rolf's vocals sound like a much more skilled Blaze Bayley and what he could have done for Maiden.

Plus, I've definitely had the "No Prayer sounds like trying to recapture Killers" notion in my head, I've just been too lazy to write the review, so when it does come out people are gonna think I'm ripping him off. :lol:

Addendum: I've never considered "song-title choruses" to be a negative in Maiden's court, mainly because lots of bands do that, sometimes with successful results (Breaking The Law, Ace of Spades and You Shook Me All Night Long come to mind)
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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:25 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
No Prayer: The recent review was kinda interesting in that it framed it as a throwback to Killers (which oddly enough I don't think I'd ever heard before) but even with that new perspective it's still just the album with Tailgunner, Holy Smoke, and a shitload of filler for me.

Where does Mother Russia sit if you were to rank the songs? That's always been the highlight of the album for me.

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Diesel 11
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:25 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:11 pm 
 

I’m just not of the same mindset as most people, I guess. I disagree completely that Blaze is a bad singer. I love him in Maiden, but he sounds superhuman in his solo work. If you’ve not heard Silicon Messiah yet, you really should.

By “mature” I don’t mean boring. You may think so, I don’t. Much of their recent material speak to me in ways no other songs have... “The Legacy”, “For The Greater Good Of God”, “Empire of the Clouds”, “Paschendale”... I think some people aren’t willing to accept that the band is a different beast (no pun intended) now than they were in the ‘80s. That’s fine, you can listen to the debut for the umpteenth time, no skin off my back. I just choose to appreciate the band in all their eras as best I can because if they had stayed the same throughout the years, it would have gotten boring fast.

Killers, though, is the hardest to appreciate, because most of the songs suck. But that’s just my opinion, and I wouldn’t want anyone to take it as fact. If there’s one thing that my review brought it’s a decent discussion about Maiden’s periods and how different people appreciate different things, and it’s been interesting stuff thus far.

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Cat III
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:44 am
Posts: 202
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:17 pm 
 

Oh look, I scored my first eight-pointer. :-D

Is Derigin the only admin minding the queue? Only seen his name on approvals for awhile now. If so, good job keeping things timely.
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PaganiusI
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:20 am 
 

Feels like there is a conspiracy going on in these halls. I proof-read my reviews three times, but as soon as it gets accepted by a mod and I go over it one final time, I start noticing every single mistake I previously missed. I bet Derigin puts them in to mock me. Or I am too used to the white on black of MA so my eyes don't work in a black on white environment anymore... :scratch:
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:00 am 
 

The review queue mods tend to ebb and flow depending on who has the time/drive to focus on it. Deri and Nappy used to own it, then Metantoine/Gunther, then I added into the trifecta, then Zodi came and blew all of us out of the water, then TUA joined in, then Dia came and just kept it so clean for so long that pretty much everybody else fell back to just sniping every once in a while. Ever since D passed away it's mostly been Derigin running the show again. I help when I can and I do go in rather large bursts at times, but it's been a hectic few months personally so yeah it's mostly been Stupid Sexy Derigin holding down the fort in recent months.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:05 am 
 

I have another Harris theory: he sustained a terrible head injury some time in late 1989 and he’s never been the same since.
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Felix 1666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 pm
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:34 am 
 

@PaganiusI, you are not alone in this, I also know this phenomenon very well...

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CHAIRTHROWER
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:25 am 
 

Aha! I'm back, albeit lately...so,the verdict regarding Megadeth's Endgame?...Friggin' A, it might very well top Rust In Peace as far as consistency goes (however, the latter still takes the palm, what can I say, other than "in the eye of the Tor-na-Doh!", rabidly at that?!

I can't get enough of that vitriolic yet mildly jocular "what?! you brought a pocket knife to a firefight?!" That track is killer, simply killer, along with most of the others. In fact, there are no weak tracks, unlike on Rust, which suffers from 5 Magics and that squirrel-y chirping going on in Dawn Patrol...It also detains a vehemently rock-ish undertone akin to Hidden Treasures i.e. tracks like 99 ways to fly and Cranky again...oh, and I forget where but there's this slamming drum beat introducing a shrapnel-wrapped solo section which reminds me so much of Nick Menza's frantic over-playing at the end of their Paranoid cover. Suffice to say, I always enjoyed that little jocose snippet and with recent developments, I've finally had a chance to experience said drumming doohickey taken to its full conclusion!

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CHAIRTHROWER
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:29 am 
 

full...logical conclusion!

and regarding Thirteen, I dunno yet, I've only heard it once but frankly, am a little nonplussed and tend to side with Leaf's 60 something score (I'd probably give it a 70% tops. Endgame though? Easily 90-91%.

Oh, and TP! Great job on the Haunt write-up...Awesome how William T. Church joined forces with fellow musicians and have taken the group/idea to the next level! Have only heard a couple tracks but yeah man, totally on the money when describing them as the perfect combination of melody and grit. I dare say, Ezra Brooks is real chill too in this regards - perhaps the Albertan should follow in the Californians' footsteps?

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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 493
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 am 
 

Man, I fucking love all of you guys, haha. This entire thread made my morning!
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PaganiusI
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am 
 

Felix 1666 wrote:
@PaganiusI, you are not alone in this, I also know this phenomenon very well...

Interesting :scratch: Well...at least I'm not alone :D
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Cat III
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:44 am
Posts: 202
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:46 am 
 

PaganiusI wrote:
Feels like there is a conspiracy going on in these halls. I proof-read my reviews three times, but as soon as it gets accepted by a mod and I go over it one final time, I start noticing every single mistake I previously missed. I bet Derigin puts them in to mock me. Or I am too used to the white on black of MA so my eyes don't work in a black on white environment anymore... :scratch:

Didn't notice until recently, that I spelled Martin Schirenc's name wrong in my first two Pungent Stench reviews which probably doesn't help my credibility. This phenomenon is common.

BastardHead wrote:
The review queue mods tend to ebb and flow depending on who has the time/drive to focus on it. Deri and Nappy used to own it, then Metantoine/Gunther, then I added into the trifecta, then Zodi came and blew all of us out of the water, then TUA joined in, then Dia came and just kept it so clean for so long that pretty much everybody else fell back to just sniping every once in a while. Ever since D passed away it's mostly been Derigin running the show again. I help when I can and I do go in rather large bursts at times, but it's been a hectic few months personally so yeah it's mostly been Stupid Sexy Derigin holding down the fort in recent months.

Thanks for the info. Interesting to know the behind the scenes stuff. Again, good on Derigin keeping things running smoothly.
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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 493
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:50 pm 
 

The newest Killers review.... I think I need a break from the internet. And the insult to "Stained Class" at the end only made me angrier.
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Diesel 11
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:25 am
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:41 pm 
 

Well I’ll be damned, someone more in line with my way of thinking pops his head up just after I send in my Killers review. I’m glad that score is going down.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:42 pm 
 

So is DonutBoy secretly Dennis Stratton or what? I have literally never heard anyone prefer him over Adrian Smith. That just seems objectively wrong.
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:21 pm 
 

The two latest Killers reviews are not only objectively wrong, but the newest one borderlines on troll droppings. Looks like the younger generation wants to be more like ANUS. :ugh:
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Diesel 11
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:38 pm 
 

Maybe the younger generation has better taste.... ;)

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Liquid_Braino
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:25 am
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:57 pm 
 

Well, at least DonutBoy liked those awesome vocals during "Genghis Khan" even though the guitar playing doesn't back them up. :|

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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:44 pm 
 

Diesel 11 wrote:
Maybe the younger generation has better taste.... ;)


Yeah, and maybe my ass is a banjo. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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SweetLeaf95
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:14 pm 
 

My problem isn't so much the low scores, it's the fact that the descriptions are horrible and the Donut one was EXTREMELY poorly written.
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DesecratorJ
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:07 am
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:12 pm 
 

Dunno what's the point of hating a classic album such as Killers, I can barely find something wrong on it tbh. Well, 80s Maiden stuff altogether.
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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:43 pm 
 

All I saw was "most overrated album after Stained ASS."


Well fuck you very much and have a glass of hemorrhoids.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:52 pm 
 

Diesel 11 wrote:
I’m glad that score is going down.


What a weird thing to have any emotional investment in.
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gasmask_colostomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:17 am 
 

Liquid_Braino wrote:
Well, at least DonutBoy liked those awesome vocals during "Genghis Khan" even though the guitar playing doesn't back them up. :|


Came here to say exactly this. Can we please make him correct the fact that he's said an instrumental track has great vocals.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:38 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Diesel 11 wrote:
I’m glad that score is going down.

What a weird thing to have any emotional investment in.

I wish to echo this.
Diesel 11 wrote:
Maybe the younger generation has better taste.... ;)

Definitely not this though.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:38 am 
 

Diesel 11 wrote:
I wish you could hear what I hear, I guess.

I do hear what you hear, I just interpret the sound differently.

In my experience, consumption of art is the most satisfying when you do what comes naturally. I would have to force myself to dislike Killers just as much as I would have to somehow force myself to enjoy The Angel and the Gambler. In both cases I would fail.

My plea to all vocalists is "You don't have to be the best. Please don't be a liability to the riffs."

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