In particular, Psyopus. I personally think they're metal, but based on the established rules of the site, I don't see a reason that they or a number of bands like them should be on the Archives. I've heard a substantial amount of material from their first and second full-length albums and find them to be completely devoid of metallic riffing or metal song structures, and as a whole it resembles technical post-hardcore/grind in the vein of a band like Daughters much more than it does anything in death metal. Is there any reason they should be here?

On that note, what of extremely similar bands such as Iwrestledabearonce? I fail to see how that band even approximates deathcore, and they, along with many other bands like them, seem to be much closer to the hardcore/white belt grind scene than they do anything related to metal. And what of bands like As The Sun Sets? A mixture of non-metal grind and non-metal sludge which makes me think of Today Is The Day before anything in the metal scene.

Really, all these bands mentioned and numerous others on the Archives don't seem even seem close to the tangential metal relation of bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan or Ion Dissonance; can we get some clarification on exactly where these sorts of bands belong or do they need to be removed?

I'll agree on that. While certainly not my personal taste, bands like Psyopus or Iwrestledabearonce etc. are far from metal. Deathcore or not, they simply lack the structure and substance to be categorized as metal. That goes for a whole shitload of other silly bands out there that are on the archives.

Iwrestledabearonce is a funny one. I can't even fathom why anyone would consider them metal (especially by this site's standards) besides the most borderline of sources (kerrang, blabbermouth), and that's coming from an open-minded faggot like myself. The only reason I can think is 'Hey, you have Psyopus! Why not Iwrestledabearonce!?'

Could some mods please weigh in on this?

Post the names of all those bands, along with their myspace.

Psyopus
http://www.myspace.com/psyopus

Iwrestledabearonce
http://www.myspace.com/iwrestledabearonce

As The Sun Sets has no Myspace, but here's the page of Daughters, the band they later turned into:

http://www.myspace.com/daughters1

Iwrestledabearonce's music contain, real, discernable metal riffs, it is not as dissonant as Psyopus. Especially in the the slower parts of their music. The hysteria around the band is absurd.

Psyopus songs on myspace do not contain any metal riffs, only jazzy grindcore breaks. Problematic bands.


As The Sun Sets - deleted, not metal at all.

The Archives page states that Psyopus is technical death/grind, but I've heard absolutely zero death metal on any of their releases. I'm acquainted with material from Ideas Of Reference and Our Puzzling Encounters Considered, where there's no death metal at all, and I seriously doubt that Odd Senses does anything to change that pattern. I can see how they're conceivably part of the 'metal scene', but that's never been a reason to include technical grind bands before, and allowing them in either requires a massive re-evaluation of the standards of this sort of music's inclusion, meaning the allowance of more borderline bands such as Ion Dissonance or The Dillinger Escape Plan, or the deletion of Psyopus and other bands like it (such as the recently deleted Orthrelm).

Anyone else?

My first impression is that Psyopus belongs. Grindcore is all about noise, speed and punkish power chord strumming. But there are very discernible riffs here, that sound closer to Spastic Ink than to Napalm Death.

Edit: the other songs on Myspace do show a more grindish side, but I'm still under the impression it's acceptable.

Ion Dissonance is a different debate, it's groovy jumpdafuckup metalcore, not chaotic math grind. From what I heard on their myspace, it's not the worst offender ever, but Metal-Archives doesn't need it either.

Yes, but are they the predominant element? To me it seems like they are just a little decoration thrown on top.

I'd agree that there are discernable riffs, but I don't really agree that they're very metallic in any way. Most of the riffs in Psyopus' music that I've heard are nothing but extremely technical sweeps with almost no power chords used (the guitarist uses tapping only, no pick), and the few instances where chords are employed, the riffs are, to me at least, closer to white belt post-hardcore/grind rather than metal. Just my opinion, of course.

What's a metallic riff?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFx-AxlpDlQ

Hm, Transilvanian Hunger doesn't sound like that I guess that's not very metal.

I'm not sure what constitutes a metal riff, but I think that a complete absence of power chords goes pretty far to making a riff not metal.

This. There's no way that Iwrestledabearonce's music is predominantly metal, even if there are metallic elements every now and then.

If this is true, then they should be deleted. Have any other mod listened to them thoroughly enough?

I don't know about Psyopsus, but if it's anything like Orthrelm, then I say light the pyre. IWaBO and a slew of its Adult Swim-watching ilk could surely go, as well, but I had been under the impression that standards had been relaxed in this area, given past backsteps.

No doubt there are plenty of other post-modern polystylistic hybrid bands and bands related to styles that are dubiously metal in themselves (drone doom, etc.) lurking about, but the prospect of getting them all out and keeping them all out is frankly rather unrealistic as things stand. Every little bit helps, though, I suppose.

Here's a track off of the band's first album. It's in no way cherry-picked to not sound metal; I think this is a track that certainly defines the bands typical sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbNunyoICfE

Yowsa, that sounds like System Of A Down meets Orthrelm.

If this is true, it definitely should be deleted. That's not metal.

One click further:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJHhUpV4 ... re=related

I just spent a few minutes checking the Myspace tracks for IWrestledABearOnce. How these worthless faux-ironic fucktards ever got accepted is beyond me, but they are nuked out of orbit now, and I want those few minutes of my life back.

I've never particularly considered Psyopus a metal band in any way, at least until I saw them here as "Technical Metal." They are definitely grindcore for the most part, at least in my humble opinion.

I'm a little worried about the precedent that it might set if the rules insisted on metal riffs for a band to be accepted here. I agree with the nuking of IWrestledABearOnce and other bands who are, IMO, far too -core to be here. However, I think that bands like Spastic Ink, Behold... the Arctopus and similarly tech groups should stay; however, they don't really depend on standard metal riffs. There are a lot of musical characteristics that make metal what it is, so I don't think that it's easy to set any hard and fast rules without excluding bands that are a part of the scene and exhibit many, if not all, of the characteristics of metal.

Go ahead and cull bands that are unrelated to metal, by all means, but let's not get too carried away.

I brought up Behold a while back and others determined that they do have a fair amount of actual riffing between the shredding, which I didn't know. Spastic Ink type groups, which are essentially an extension of the prog metal scene, I don't really have an issue with. I'm really localizing my questions to this particular breed of ultra-technical grind/shred stuff out there.

If this is the case, then I think Psyopus should stay, too.

Where does Psyopus have any metal riffing?

Wait, what?

What I mean is that I think that there are other musical characteristics that define metal aside from merely the guitar parts. If a band conforms to all except for that one characteristic, I would argue that it's metal; however, Noktorn addressed my concern. That's really all I was saying.

So what's going on with this?

Looks like As The Sun Sets and Iwrestledabearonce have been nuked.

I'm sure Psyopus will be next.