Hey, just figured I'd post this here to raise awareness because this is really problematic. the user Sebwinters' edits are just completely inane. He changes the description for every single slam band, usually to give them this descriptive meaning, even if some of the meanings don't even make any sense. Two examples of this are "Embryectomy" or "Syphilectomy" (even if there is no actual defined medical terminology for these words at all and are just made up by the band for a band name)

Example here: https://www.metal-archives.com/history/ ... ilter/data
And here: https://www.metal-archives.com/history/ ... 3540382539

No idea why he feels like he needs to edit the notes on every single slam band on the site to explain the medical defined meaning of every single band that has one. That's beyond me.

He's also edited the description for Agonal Breathing giving them a "Chinese name" when no member of the band is or speaks Chiense, never has been promoted in anything Chinese and thus has absolutely no reason at all for having a "Chinese name" other than a logo artist that had made a logo for them written in Chinese, which I guess gave him some weird justified reason to do this. Still doesn't explain why just because the band have an illegible alternative logo in Chinese makes any sense why that was okay. It's very highly doubtful that the band will ever be found or listed anywhere in the world under this supposed "Chinese name" considering neither member speaks of Chinese or are anywhere near China.

And speaking of logos, he most recently changed the logo for Decimated Humans here to a logo that the band EVEN SAID ON THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE THAT THEY'RE NOT OFFICIALLY USING.

Can someone really tell this guy that he needs to cut this shit out? 9 times out of 10, his edits are disruptive, unnecessary and nonsensical. I'm sure you can see how constant unnecessary edits like this which alter things that don't need to be altered (and in some cases are altered to something that they shouldn't be altered to) can be frustrating. In many cases, I've had to revert his really disruptive ones (like the logo for Decimated Humans or this situation over here that he caused before for a musician profile https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/624972)

If there's any way to summon Antioch and Diamhea to this thread, please do it because I believe that they should both take a look at this thread because I'm sure they're the best people who can make this clear to him that this type of stuff needs to stop

First, to address the entirety of these items, the reason I make changes of the smaller and seemingly less important type is for site consistency. I know that formatting is of utmost importance on the Metal Archives, so any place that I see an entry which is a deviation from the standard formatting of the rest of the website, I try my best to correct that.

The first item you mentioned is definitions of band's names. The reason I have made this addition on a few bands (probably no less than ten) is because I had seen on several other band's pages a similar definition of their name; for example, I believe Cephalotripsy and Epicardiectomy had such definitions in their descriptions, and a few others, as well (not added by me). I added similar definitions to no more than ten other bands which use similarly medical-related terms as their band names for the purpose stated above; that is, site consistency. If these types of edits are not welcome, then I will no longer make them.

The second item you mentioned is my addition of Agonal Breathing's Chinese name and logo. As you stated, the reasoning for this was that a logo artist had made them a logo for their name in Chinese. I added the logo and the Chinese name to Agonal Breathing's entry in order to maintain the site's purpose of being an encyclopedia which retains as much neutral information about metal bands as possible.

In terms of Decimated Humans' logo, I didn't realize the fact that it not being the band's official logo was a dealbreaker for having it listed on this site. I added it because the official DH Facebook page posted it and said they may use it on future merch; yes, you're right that they did not say that the logo was official, but as I said before, I wasn't aware that this was information that should cause the logo not to be added.

To conclude, I'll reiterate what the overarching theme of the vast majority of my edits here on the website are. They are, generally speaking, consistency edits, and by that I mean that I strive to ensure that every band I come across has a similarly-formatted appearance to all the rest. I do add new bands and new releases when I need to, but that doesn't make up the large part of my edits on the Metal Archives.

I'll say now that I'm terribly sorry for being a nuisance and causing problems for all of those involved. I'm a fair amount less confident that I'll make it out of this situation without an infraction of some kind, or perhaps a ban for the nature of certain edits, but I'd at least like whoever is reading this to know that I have never and will never have any malicious or disruptive intentions toward this site. I am here to help with the upkeep of a site that documents much of the music that I listen to on a daily basis, and nothing more.

Apologies in advance for only addressing parts of the subject at the moment.

We still have a number of things were no real standard has been agreed upon. Band name descriptions are, as far as I know, one of the things we are still dealing with on a case to case and subjective basis. As a result of that, users trying to maintain a perceived standard is bound to happen regularly. Hell, I've had it happen to me a few times since I started here..

From my point of view an explanation of a bands name might be a nice addendum to a relatively fleshed out biography - at least if the band themselves have spoken on the meaning - but there is certainly no need to systematically go through the database and define or translate every name on it. I think everyone should try to keep in mind that we are trying to archive information on bands and music, not to compile a dictionary of medical terms or norse mythology.

So, yeah, on this point at least I don't see any reason for any reaction beyond saying "please don't junk up profiles with dictionary definitions".

I've attempted to adhere to a standard band description format that looks like this:



Other items that I have seen around the site but haven't added to this "standardized" band description format would be "Additional discography" and "Compilation appearances".

There is "something" of a standard regarding certain minutiae of band biography sections, but the order they go in is absolutely nothing worth screwing with at this time. There are far more important things that need attention. Don't go on little editing crusades like this in regard to such pedantic changes without at least checking with myself or Azmodes first.

Kind of reminds me of the user "dantes" who (in good faith) decided to add the description for Norse terms used in band names in like mid 2014-ish. He was asked to stop, and I'm STILL coming across stragglers from that. It's more cleanup we don't need or want.

And this really belonged in this thread: https://www.metal-archives.com/board/vi ... =3&t=64976

There is nothing wrong with prettying up a messy bio and your preferred way of presenting the data seems fine by me, but again - there is no agreed upon standard for the presentation and I advice everyone to not get too anal about it.

As a side-note, "not to be confused with" should be used sparingly and only where there is a realistic chance of or a history of confusion...

I'm generally fine with stuff like that, but it's a matter of relevance and common sense. If the name is really made-up and not actually an established medical term and/or it's pretty transparent to the layman in its meaning already (which I would argue Embryectomy is), adding such a note isn't necessary (and would actually be misleading, if not properly phrased).


We're generally parsimonious when it comes to multiple logos. Collages should be avoided unless the logos are quite different and correspond to consistent, long-term use. I'm not familiar with this particular case, but if it's just a one-time gimmick... As for the note, you have to consider all the implications the addition of "The band's Chinese name is 濒死呼吸." carries. There's an assumption of relevance, so this sounds like the band uses/used -for some reason- a Chinese form of their name, for touring, on releases or in some other tangible capacity. What it doesn't convey to the reader is "an artist once translated their name and made a logo out of it". If they're added at all, these things need to be put into context.


Honestly, while I appreciate you explaining yourself in-depth, that first sentence is a weird thing to say. I'd have thought it goes without saying that only official and, well, used logos should be added. Apparently not?


Nobody's getting banned or anything, especially since you're actually addressing these concerns in a rational manner. (and they're hardly bannable offenses in the first place)


Disambiguation: That's fine. Personally I also mention the genre of the other band(s). Keep in mind to only add this note to bands from the same country. Kjetter mentioned to only use it sparingly, but actually it's fine to add it whenever there are bands with identical (or very similar) names from the same country.
Photo description: Don't shorten the names to the given name only (where'd you get that idea from?). It's fine to just refer to them the way they're credited in the band's lineup.

Now, I'm not sure if you're also emphasising the order of these items in your template, but there isn't any standard there, apart from the disambiguation ideally being the first thing in the bio.

Yeah, this is essentially what I expected. In the cases of Embryectomy of Syphilectomy, I suppose I was just being overzealous, and I'll be careful to avoid such behavior in the future.


Okay, very good. I'll keep this in mind in the future.


After re-reading it myself, I see what you mean. This is what I meant: I thought that since the band posted the logo to their Facebook page, that alone was reason enough to add it. I see now that that's not the case.


Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if you guys had strict a no-tolerance policy for offenses like this.


Okay, will do.


I shortened the names to only given names for just for aesthetic purposes; to my eye, it looks more organized and uniform if you have a list of single-word names separated by commas and spaces as opposed to multiple-word names. I have made this particular modification (adding the image lineup description with only given names) to quite a lot of bands (perhaps around 30, just as rough estimate), so if you'd like, I can attempt to change those to the way they're credited in the band lineup.


I have some idea of emphasis in the template, but it's not really perfect. I see the logo's creator as the generally least important item, so I placed it at the bottom; likewise, I see image lineup descriptions as very high priority, so I placed it at the top, but not before the disambiguation section (if applicable). The other items are just placed according to visual preference.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention that I've done in image lineup descriptions is this: if there are two members with the same first name, I list them like so:



An example of this can be seen on Fvrlvrn's page.

The band is NOT Chinese, why is that necessary? Just because they had a logo made in Chinese? I just dont see the point at all!



The main problem here is your edits are sort of ridiculous and never address bigger issues. I've even seen you edit pages just to add a period. Why do you have to do that?

As Azmodes said, no banning is needed here. It's just the stuff you constantly have edited is a little annoying at this point. Also I want to make an apology for not posting this issue in the point whores thread, I forgot about that thread. I'll keep it in mind in the future.

Sebwinters, it's best to just not mess with the logo sections anymore, don't add anymore band name meanings (unless the band have actually address that "our band name means this" in some special area). It's completely unnesesary to give dictionary definitions to every single band on the site as Kjetter said. And also, don't edit notes just to add a period. The scheme of editing for the Archives as far as I've been on here has been to edit only when necessary. Adding a period is just so trivial. You don't need to modify every page you see on here. And also, changing musician's pictures (as I've also seen you do a lot) isn't really necessary to do unless the artist has actually changed their appearance since then. If they look the same or if the pic is like within like 3 years of recency, I'd say just leave it. Thanks for listening to us.

Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah, let's take a step back here.

It is perfectly, 100% fine to fix errors - even small ones. Fixing periods, correcting spelling, even adjusting formatting is absolutely OK.

Point-whoring is not just an action, it is an action with an ethos. People who point-whore specifically do so to acquire points, and their actions are therefore geared to be as pointless and as expansive as possible. That is their end goal. However, that is different than a person who wants to fix errors and contribute to the Archive. Sometimes people can be misguided, which is understandable since admittedly a lot of our policy is unwritten convention, but that does not mean those contributors have malicious or obnoxious intent. We must keep that in mind. Sebwinters obviously doesn't fall into the category of a contributor who means to be malicious or obnoxious, and his desire to add periods and correct issues of format is OK and acceptable. We prefer if contributors focus on adding new information or updating information before making any other often aesthetic changes, however, that's only a preference. There are, of course, other ways users can help and contribute to the Archive, and that does involve aesthetic changes. The best contributors are usually those who can balance both - add information, but make sure it is aesthetically consistent and accurate. Sometimes it is necessary for the cleaners to come in and do the latter.

You both mean very well, and we really hope that you both continue to actively contribute. You both are what makes MA great. But let's not get hung up on something that really isn't that big of a deal.

Apologies for not responding to everything said, but this specific quote stood out to me, and I wanted to address it.


This is exactly what I have always attempted to do. Any time I have information to add, I do my best to ensure that it is aesthetically consistent and accurate, as you said; and any time I don't have any new information to add and have some extra time on my hands, I attempt to ensure that information others have added is aesthetically consistent and accurate (which it very often isn't).

Thanks to all of you (GuardAwakening, Kjetter, Diamhea, Azmodes and Derigin) for your insights and recommendations. I'll do my best to make improvements in the ways you described in the future.

Glad to hear that. I consider this thread resolved.

Just a reminder for anyone reading, in the future please use the designated thread for inquiries like this.