Hello, I'm not really sure where to post this and this felt like the best place. In the past I've had bands get rejected because their first release wasn't out yet and I was too early with submitting. I've been waiting until after the US release time (since I am 6 hours ahead), but what I've seen happening is that other people do submit the same bands (but before the US release time and do get away with it. Why is this? I'm missing out on submitted bands like this and I don't think it's fair to tell one person to wait until the album is out and then tell someone else it's fine if it's submitted before release time. Can someone shine a light on this for me? Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Can you give an example of an unfairly/incorrectly approved band submission?

To be fair I can't add the moment because it has been a while since it last happened and I've already deleted the submission at the time, but I do have the example of the band Carl Wheezer. Their first album came out today (the 25th of November) and I waited patiently before the release date and time (since I am in Europe I have to wait until 12pm my time before submitting), since I had this band in my drafts for weeks/months. Now I submitted them today at 6:01 am Pacific Time (which is a minute after release) only to find out someone else submitted the same band almost 24 hours prior to the release date. This has happened before as well and then my submission would be rejected because "it was already present in the queue". I'm gonna try and see if I can find an example of this happening in the past.

Okay I looked through my rejected and draft bands and I am unable to find an example sadly. I'm also trying to remember what bands this has happened with but to no avail. So what I mentioned above is the only "clear" example that I have, even though neither band has been approved yet. That instance made me write this post since it has happened before and I always just accepted it, but now I was really starting to wonder why this happens. I guess without a clear example there isn't much you guys can do.

You don't really need to wait for the US release date, I am not sure how you got this information but it's not accurate. As long as the album is purchasable and not in pre-order or streamable on Spotify for example, then you can submit the band. It was always the case and apparently many users are confused regarding the matter. Usually albums are released earlier on Spotify and other music platforms in comparison with Bandcamp, so you probably need to double check those platforms also to verify if the album was out already.

The point is, that the "rule" worked like that: if the album's release date is 25th of November, you had to wait while the time-stamp of MA website is 25th of Nobermber 00:00 (24:00), no mater that, for example, in Europe it's already out (and available on digital platform). But I have also noticed that it does not work that way anymore - can't give particular examples right now, but know that some users submitted several bands as soon as the album is available on digital platform, and bands were succesfully accepted.

No, that's pretty much a wrong interpretation of the rule. It never worked like that. As long as the album is out i.e. as long as the album is available for purchase and not in pre-order or available for streaming on an acceptable streaming platform like Spotify for example, regardless the date, then you can submit the band. If that was the case and still the band got rejected then that was a moderator error.

Can't agree on that. There were (still is?) a lot of "racing" at 00:00 time-stamp between users, to add particular bands based on this rule. But as said - seems that no longer matters.

Yes, if the album is getting a physical release at the specified release date and the digital album is not available yet. Although these cases are diminishing progressively since most albums are getting digital releases prior to physical ones nowadays. It's not that the rule has changed or anything.
To sum it up, if the album is available in any format then the band is ready for submission, regardless the mentioned release date. You can add the "proper" release date for the corresponding format yourself.

Okay so if I get this straight I can submit the band as soon as the album is out of pre-order? If that's the case, what should I do if I submit a band with the album fully on bandcamp, but before release date, and it gets rejected? That has also happened to me in the past. At least thank you for shining a light on the matter because I was quite confused about this (as are other users apparently) and I have a clearer image of how it works.

You can submit the band as soon as the album is fully available for purchase in any format or fully available on an acceptable streaming platforms like Spotify for example, regardless the mentioned release date. That's pretty much how it works, but still wait for a moderator's confirmation.
If the album is fully available on Bandcamp this does not necessarily mean that the album is out. If it's available for purchase then you are fine to submit the band, otherwise you need to wait until the album is available for purchase.
Again, you probably need to wait for a moderator's confirmation but this is pretty much how it works based on my experience.

If the album is available for downloading on Bandcamp, how can it not be out yet?

Sometimes the album is fully available for streaming on Bandcamp and yet it is still in pre-order or fully available due to a "listening party" held on Bandcamp, then you can't submit the band and must wait. If the album is available for download i.e. if you can purchase it, then you are fine for submitting the band.

This has happened to me before too. Sometimes an artist/band will make the album fully listenable before the actual release date

If the album is "fully listenable" on Bandcamp, then you can't submit the band at that point. The album must be available for purchase.

Okay, thank you!

Well, both bands are still pending, no decision has been made (and probably no mod has yet got around to deal with either). We can't prevent people from submitting bands early, obviously. In the case of someone submitting the band early and someone else waiting for the date, but the subs not getting checked until after the release date, we try to choose the one that originally abided by the rules.


Anyway, let's set the record straight:

The way things work was announced here and was codified in the rules:


This still holds true and always has since the announcement was made. If you have observed mod behaviour to the contrary (and again, specific examples would be welcome), it can pretty much only mean one of two things:

1) The mod made a mistake.
2) The release was actually already available at an earlier date despite what the official release date says. This is an annoying grey area, but if there is clear evidence that for all intents and purposes something is already out and about, we ignore the faux-release date (and also adjust the release date of the album entry accordingly). Admittedly, the exact degree to which this is followed can vary from mod to mod, though. Not to mention the manifold exact circumstances of the band and release in question. For instance, a band might announce something for one date, but we have clear proof that copies were already distributed at a gig a week earlier. In that case the release date was, factually, a week earlier. On the other hand, if evidence for an earlier release date is lacking, we will probably default to the officially announced date.

I gotta say, I have little patience left these days for this whole discussion, as it is always such a tedious exercise in technicalities, as if unravelling the mystery of who rightfully crossed the finish line first is an end in itself, and I feel like it's taking up an unreasonable amount of our time. The purpose of the Archives is to be comprehensive and accurate, not to litigate who gets to be first (but I suppose as a user-based database it is kind of inevitable). The reason the rule about using "MA time" was implemented in the first place was to enforce consistency and have a clear measure stick for whenever those ridiculous submission races happen. Not sure it has helped a whole lot... I don't mean to sound dismissive of you guys researching bands and assembling submissions on your own time (and I do get the frustration when you think you're following the rules and someone else who seemingly doesn't gets the credit), but I'm simply quite tired of it.

I can totally understand you being tired of this. Thanks again for shining a light on this and now I know how this works in the future. I hope this will get easier for the mods as well since I know how much time it takes you guys to moderate this website and just like us you're doing this in your free time. I also discussed the matter with Obesyx in a report under the submission and were both absolutely cool about it. Hope this won't happen again in the future!