I really don't agree with any of that. I love the "thrashy death metal" subset more than the slower doomy sound of Incantation, Immolation etc. Any day I'd take the former.

Vehemence is great for melodeath. And early Arsis. Heartwork may be the best melodeath album ever though, but then again I am no expert.

I really couldn't get into The Gallery, even though I own it. The only track I really enjoy is "The Dividing Line".

By your lights, what are the leading bands in this category (thrashy death metal)?

I'd guess Destruction, Kreator, Rigor Mortis, Deicide, etc. but beyond that, no clue. Maybe Vio-Lence and Exhorder.

I guess I'm the opposite......

I need my doom & gloom. That's why on average I prefer black or doom over death metal, but there's a lot of great gloomy old school death metal as well.
Bolt Thrower, early Entombed, and early Amorphis seem to sum up my taste in death metal perfectly.

For "thrashy death metal", maybe Master, Massacra, Merciless or early Sepultura.

The early shit. Possessed, Death, Morbid Angel's debut, Dismember's first couple, et cetera. I don't need a huge thrash influence, just enough of that loose, classic riffing style that sounds so unhinged and mad. I like some darkness and gloom too, just not the suffocating technicality of a lot of the bands that get commonly touted by metalheads. I have to be in a specific mood for that, and it doesn't happen often.

Already gone through those, The Somberlain, the first 2 Necrophobic albums, and most of Sacramentum's discography being classics.

I would have put Dismember more into my gloomy death metal category

By "Morbid Angel's debut" do you mean Abominations of Desolation or Altars of Madness?

Abominations is definitely the thrashier of the two, but I always considered Morbid Angel's seminal material to be more of innovative toward the "swirling twisted chaotic death metal" sound of Atrocity, etc.

Interesting. Dismember and Morbid Angel weren't expected for me. Is "thrashy" a riff-type, compositional type, or general outlook, or something else, in your view?

Agreed on the darkness and gloom. Save-the-world bands of any stripe strike me as naive at this point.

You should definitely try Projector if you're going through Dark Tranquillity's back catalogue. It's actually my favorite melo death album (and generally my favorite album) of all time. Be forewarned though it's not your typical melo death.

If they can work that in a tasteful manner into their lyrics I guess it works, as Immolation always claim their lyrics to have positive/affirmative messages.

Darkness and gloom is more my musical taste though. I don't relate it to being "negative".

A certain feeling of supernatural horror is generally what I can relate to, in all artistic mediums.
It strikes a chord with me that no sort of "upbeat melody" can.

With all respect due, that's nonsense. Besides, Dark Tranquillity was pretty much contemporaneous with those original entities. Not that Dissection/Sacramentum don't have their share of obvious imitators, but they're a rather different style I would say.

I really enjoy Dark Tranquillity's The Gallery; it's a one of a kind album for sure. The debut is also pretty interesting but I think when Mikael took over on vocals and they honed their melodic craft a bit they became quite a force. The thing about that album is that the guitar and basswork are so intertwined and often play hardly any chords, so it's just streams of intricate melody rushing by at speed, with some doomier tracks to spice things up. Anyway, I find it highly emotional and superior to most of the band's other output. Sadly I think much of their stuff is rather mediocre, especially since the experimental Projector.

And I don't really like Subterranean...c'mon, it practically sounds like Keepers era helloween with raspy vocals. Stromblad was a great guitarist though. They were a bit of a gateway band for me back then, too, I have to admit. I was just getting into the somewhat underground side of metal when Subterranean materialised.

Edit:
Back to Dissection et al for a moment, it's something I've heard before that that band itself changed their sound to be more like Sacramentum. personally I'm not terribly interested in such things; for all we know they could have shared a rehearsal space or something and just been influenced by each others' ideas. Same goes for Varathron and Rotting Christ. I mean which band really started the trademark Greek black metal sound? Most would agree I think that Varathron basically got their first but that doesn't negate the quality of the other band's classic work.

It's the aesthetic of metal taken to the next level, that kind of "none more extreme" mentality that those bands had back then. Taking classic riffing and dirtying it up to the point where it was as violent as a pack of hyenas. That's what's cool about old DM to me. Plus the over the top image, satanic horror movie stuff, etc. None of the NSBM or misogynistic crap we get now - shame metal went in that sort of direction.

heh, I never thought that metal went in any one direction in particular. It's more of a maze with all sorts of branchings and turnoffs.

Yeah, sure. But what I said was just one direction it went in, is all. I like most directions it went in, to some degree or other.

Agreed, but we still have plenty of bands carrying the old-school torch. There's something for everyone, basically. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you, I guess. Personally I'm not really bothered, I just try not to listen to stuff that sucks.

Yeah. It always makes me happy to see something like the new Satan around, which harkens back so well to the old days. But there's good modern stuff as well.

Speaking of new modern stuff, the new Funeral Circle album is a great fresh take on doom metal, but it's still got that classic style. Highly recommended by this guy over here with the thumbs!

Haven't heard that yet but I can't imagine it being less than great. They're fine fellows, too.

Best listen of the day so far. Best of 2013 for me up there with Uncle Acid, Darkthrone, Integrity, Cauchemar...

Funeral Circle is pretty good. Not great, but they will be with a few more albums maybe. They remind me of Atlantean Kodex or Solstice.

I guess I should try and put the new Summoning down and check out some other newer bands.

Cauchemar is another band that has yet to fulfill their full potential I think. Their riffs are absolutely top grade and the production on their record is amazing. But I really wish François would solo or something. Their music is pretty unadorned. One day though I think they might be as good as Hour of 13. I think the two bands are quite similar, aesthetically; both are just as much Judas Priest-inspired as they are by the standard doomsters, with Cauchemar even having some really nice speed metal moments.

Have you heard Hands of Orlac? They take it to the next level. Very complex, very stimulating music. From Italy too!!

Hm, no; oddly enough I'm actually "friends" with a couple of the members on facebook but never ended up checking out the band. heh..thanks for reminding me.

You're missing out! One of my favorite recent finds.

Well, I've decided to skip the Mammifer/Alcest/Anathema show tonight, due to the fact that until I start working full-time again next month, my income is limited, and seeing as I now live in Vancouver, there's a gig pretty much every weekend, so I think I'll save the cash for the Diamond Head, Raven, Saxon, Gwar, Tribulation, Watain, and Goblin shows next month, though I probably won't make it to all of them.

You should go to that seriously, Alcest was worth the $25 for sure. In fact knowing how good they were I would've paid more than that. Mammifer was fucking terrible though so if you decide to go do your ears a favor and be fashionably late.

Annick said they'll become more progressive on the new album! And judging by their Temple of Syrinx cover at Wings of Metal, they'll be excellent at it! The Mic Ruler, I enjoy seeing your excitement about doom but it would be cool if you could talk about it in the doom help thread, I've been trying to make it more alive And yes, Hands of Orlac is pretty cool, kind of an Italian Blood Ceremony. I'm planning an Italian doom review series as my next series, great scene. Check out Stake-Off the Witch, cool female fronted Italian stoner. Also, I recently featured The Black on the Metal Archives' Facebook page!

And woooo, the privilege thread is now locked! Riffs will be able to stop making a total fool of himself.

I'm actually the last person to post in that thread! I spoke with someone from my hometown in it about the local underground record store, oddly enough.

EDIT: The doom/stoner/sludge thread, not the other one. I can go to the other one though! I'll make some posts about my love for Asunder and the like

I'll hold you personally responsible for this statement if the Alcest gig in January sucks, then.

I saw Swallow the Sun yesterday, and I was positively surprised. I'm not very familiar with their albums, but the live gig was a professional fare, with very good mixing and stuff. And I had good company, which always helps.

Being dark ambient, I was actually curious about Mamiffer. I also wanted to see what all the bees knees is about Alcest. I find them utterly boring on record, so maybe they're different live.

I also loved Anathema up to Eternity, as they were one of my first doom bands along with My Dying Bride and Tiamat, and even liked a couple songs on Judgement, but I heard they almost never play early stuff live

Their new alternative rock stuff just isn't my thing.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/g ... 25033.html

The shirt o.O
The article is about the right-extremist party Golden Dawn being classified as a criminal organization by Greek authorities and the leading members being arrested.
They're being accused of homicide, assault, blackmailing and money laundering.

That was the party NSBM nutjobs Der Sturmer and Wolfnacht were both part of.

Apparently that's the biggest NS-oriented party nowadays, and one time even had the law enforcement on their side.

The best way I can describe Mammifer is headache inducing. It was basically a bunch of noises that never should've been put together all smashed up and way to fucking loud. Ask Smoking_Gnu he described it pretty well but I forgot what he said. Alcest's sound live was fucking great, completely encompassing basically and what they did with the vocals was amazing. We left when Anathema came on so I can't tell you what that was like.


Edit: Just saw this on t.v. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqe3OHhL-Y8. I can only hope some power metal band finds a way to put this into their live show...

Even if RC was older as a metal band, Varathron started as a straight up black metal band, whereas RC was still in the grind/death side. From the 3 originators (Varathron, RC and Necromantia) Varathron was always the most 'hellenic' sounding of them and to this day, they are the most consistent in terms of style and atmosphere.

Regarding Morbid Angel, no matter how shitty they are in studio nowadays, their early stuff was crucial in the development of extreme metal, effectively influencing black and death, using a good share of thrash and even some speed metal elements. Altars is an essential album which opened too many doors for bands to explore and expand. I would rank them in terms of overall influence to metal just after Celtic Frost and Bathory.

I seem to remember people remarking on Surgical Steel in here. I think it happens to be pretty a-okay. I'm unsure why some of you rectal pirates seem to be so intensely disliking of it. Nothing about it sounds egregious.

I enjoyed your choice of vocabulary in that post.

Yeah, I listened to it again today, it's a solid album. I enjoyed it and it had some kick ass riffing. It's about as good a comeback as you'll get.

Surgical Steel could definitely be better, but I like it, and even if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to see what's so actively repellent about it. There's definitely much more offensive stuff out there.

Surgical Steel is pretty good, but there's a lack of chunky riffs that Carcass is known for. IIRC, those riffs were present even in Swansong. If it wasn't for the vocals and guitar tone, you wouldn't be able to tell it was a Carcass album.