I'm going to ask about mayhem and euro and varg...blah blah blah, but hear me out first.

Everywhere, death metal fans are chanting "RIP Chuck" or exclaiming how "Roger Patterson's death was a loss" etc...they revere their heroes, it seems. However, as it is with poor Euronymous, I hear joke after joke. I know this is the internet...but still, on a video once, one person was commenting on how Euro was a bit eccentric, etc, and then someone replied, "It's good Varg took care of him." I hear a bit of it here too.

Now, I won't deny I find this whole light-humored treating of the virtual death of old-school black as so fucking hilarious, but I'm curious, what do you guys see it as? A tragedy? Something funny?

I know it seems I'm trying to damn you poor folk for being "irreverent"...but really, I'm just fucking curious as to what you think of it. Was it anything special? Did it matter? Thanks.

Well, Euronymous seemed like quite an idiotic dickhead, and I personally have a lot more respect for Varg. He may be an idealist and a flip-flopper...but Euronymous was simply retarded.

Other than his guitar playing and innovation in black metal, he seemed like a worthless individual.

I couldn't agree with this more. His guitar playing, songwriting, and even some of his ideals were detrimental to the second wave of black metal (in my opinion), and black metal would be very different without him. Overall, however, he just seemed like a real idiot...like the immature teenager that he was.

Even so, I'd never advocate murder. I do have to wonder though, what would black metal sound like today without Euronymous? We'd obviously have early recordings like Bathory, Sepultura, and other heavy material (before there was a clear difference between black and death metal), but how would the whole second wave be affected? Would it have existed at all? This kind of thinking can consume me at times.

Without Mayhem and Euronymous, you'd still have bands like Beherit, Profanatica, Sepultura's first EP and full length, Necrovore, Archgoat, and countless other bands that influenced a different style of black metal, so black metal wouldn't take as big of a hit as people always assume if Euronymous never existed. Even so, it would be very different.

This is a cool topic because I never really thought of it, but now that you mention it I totally know what you're talking about.

I think every subgenre of metal has its own general attitude towards its own music and musicians. I'm not a black metalhead, but for about a year hung out with one, and he seemed to care more about the music than making emotional connections with band members. He didn't idolize them, only cared for the music, and would indeed joke about their deaths.

But, I think it also has to do with the personalities of the people who died. I think black metal had a lot of distasteful characters in it that many fans wouldn't want to connect to. The average metalhead can connect with Chuck Schuldiner, Dimebag Darrel, Randy Rhoads, etc. presuming they already like the bands those guys are in.

Wow ... you must have been really close to him to give such a statement.

To declare someone as a 'worthless' individual clearly shows your mental state of mind. Actually, no, it clearly coheres with the NS ideology of Varg. When there is one worthless thing, then it is your post and attitude.

The Romans had a phrase for this: si tacuisses philosophus mansisses... sometimes it is better to say nothing.

oneyoudontknow, stop trying to give the board a lesson on political morality in every thread. theheinouskilling667 is clearly basing his view on what both individuals have said in interviews throughout their time in their bands and has made a judgement, which is fair enough for him to do.

EDIT: Fixed retard typing.

if you have a problem with it, why do you read it, hm?

Probably because it's the latest post in a thread I am following? Perhaps because you are responding to a previous post and I might be interested in what you might be adding to the discussion (which is of course nothing)?

so you do not have a problem with the statement that Euronymous is described as a 'worthless individual'? So, you support NS-ideology?

No I have no problem with that statement, and no I do not support NS-ideology. Stop trying to pidgeonhole people who do not fit your wonderful, everybody being friendly worldview.

Learn to separate music and politics mate, it'll do you a world of good.

False dichotomy.

It's entirely possible to consider Euronymous worthless without being a goddamn Nazi.

So, do you not perceive this as a bit strange that you follow the codex of the NS-scene, while attempting to distance yourself from them in the same breath? You do not see the inconsistency on your side?

Where do I say that I follow a friendly worldview; pavlovian reflex on your side or a Manichaean worldview?

Really, who is pushing the politics into the metal scene, then, hm? Whose part is it to

Music as well as politics are both parts of society and as such interrelated, whether you like it or not. Music always had an impact on the culture and on the political status quo and your statement merely shows how ignorant you are of your own history and that of other countries...

this topic is just full of fail. All the oneyoudontknow is doing is generalising people, and trying to look as intelligent as possible in his writing (even if you have a PHD in latin please don't try and rub it in peoples faces)

I think I'll point out here that this thread was made to discuss the metal world's reactions to the death of Euronymous. It was not made for the purpose of accusing others of being Nazis. This shit is completely off topic, not to mention just plain lame.

Nice attempt of putting things out of context. It IS possible to give such a statement, but only when further explanations are provided, which would give hints on how this phrase is to be understood; such were not given. The intention of the OP, to which I had replied, suggested that this person had an ideology;which you can clearly see/read. So, by removing the rest of his statement, you make it unable to a neutral person to really grasp what this person wanted to express. This is not a valid attempt.

All I can say is .

Really, who is pushing the politics into the metal scene, then, hm? Whose part is it to

Music as well as politics are both parts of society and as such interrelated, whether you like it or not. Music always had an impact on the culture and on the political status quo and your statement merely shows how ignorant you are of your own history and that of other countries...[/quote]

Of course music and politics are interrelated, it's the reason why there's political music in the first place. However much I disagree with the ideology behind a piece I can still appreciate the music talent behind it. Your inability to do this (as evidenced by a number of threads on these boards) is quite sad really.

But, clearly, because I like a few different notes arranged in a particular order played in a certain way, I MUST be a National Socialist. Pull your head out of your arse.

EDIT: I'm stepping out of this. It's derailed the thread too much (sorry guys) and it's a worthless (gasp, there's that word again) discussion/argument in the first place. oneyoudontknow, if you wish to discuss anything further feel free to pm me, but let's let this thread continue, for the sake of the thread AND our arses which the mods will destroy.

A good post gone so quickly...

Personally, the suicide of Dead is more of an effect then Euronymous' death. While I wouldn't say he was a "worthless individual", he certainly wasn't the best of the characters. As for the scene.. it wasn't a tragedy. It was needed, due to the peak of controversy and recognization. It could have gotten way out of hand, and it would of ultimately hurt metal for the worse.

Not a tragedy nor funny. Just.. something that needed to happen.

Euronymous is as liable to be treated as a saint as a 'worthless individual' in any given situation. You will learn nothing here, other than that there is no longer anything resembling a consensus, if there ever was to begin with. Some will say his death was good, others will say that Vikerness is a murdering Nazi and should suffer eternally for depriving the world of the boy prince of anti-Camelot. Still others will tell you that Mayhem (and, by extension, the 'heart' of this or that movement) died with Dead, not Euronymous.

In all cases, you are unlikely to find much in the way of real substantiation. And, inevitably, the thread will probably combust over something not even strictly relevant to the topic, such as someone pointing out that Schuldiner had at least as many character flaws as the personalities aforementioned, or perhaps something dimly related to Dimebag Darrell, or, hell....just look at the last half-dozen or so posts.

Edit: Case in point--Necropleasurist wrote his post while I was writing mine; I did not see it beforehand. So it goes.