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SatanicPotato
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 2165
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:12 am 
 

i completed the surge, storyline wise i am not saying its fantastic but its much better than most people are saying, most people seem to think there isnt a story, there is one and it does have some decent moments but its not dark souls or prey, i enjoyed the game i had 2 issues with the game i kept getting lost because in some sections everything looks the same and some parts of the game are frustratingly difficult but it did feel great to get past those sections

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11421
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:00 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Yeah, I haven't played that game specifically but it's always been better to keep the nerfs small and the buffs big. Give the weaker classes something flashy and exciting, don't give the stronger ones too much to complain about.


Yeah, plus to keep the game challenging and prevent power creep, you can then just make the enemies harder to compensate. Like, the average damage-focused life-based build often had around 5000 life, which is susceptible to one-shots. An energy shield build with similar damage output might have double the amount of "life" as pure energy shield, making it much more one-shot resistant. So to me, the answer is just keep energy shield the same, buff life so that similar numbers are achievable, then just make monsters stronger. It would be *especially* easy to do since they're adding so much content to the game; just give some of the new monsters attacks that do more than 10,000 damage, and there you go. No nerfs visible to the players, same end result of balancing things, those who like life-based builds would get a big, actual buff.

It just doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Nerf a huge chunk of the player bases' preferred playstyle into the ground, and of course they're gonna be pissed and stop playing the game.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11193
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:11 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Morrigan wrote:

It does. The aesthetic seems like a cool spin on the whole "sinister Christian imagery" deal, and the gameplay looks fairly tight. Pretty hot stuff.

I had to think about it for a little while, but it finally came to me what some of the monster designs and the twisted malevolent vibe + retro pixel art reminded me of.
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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:45 am 
 

Yooooooo, we got a teaser trailer for the animated Castlevania series that'll be on Netflix. Animation looks tight:


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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 7721
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:09 pm 
 

Looks like a Studio 4C production. Hopefully there's not a lot of godawful intrusive CGI like they like to use.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 10857
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:22 pm 
 

Just chiming in to say that I'm still (veeeeery slowly) working through Persona 5. I only just finally finished the third palace and I'm like 37 hours or so in because I have so much Real Life Shit to do, but I want to say it's still on pace to be one of the best games I've played in a decade and anybody who doesn't care about Pope Joan being represented by a nuclear powered motorcycle is somebody I don't want to meet.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 7721
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:36 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
and anybody who doesn't care about Pope Joan being represented by a nuclear powered motorcycle is somebody I don't want to meet.

I know, right? It's just yet another reason why Makoto is, in fact, best girl.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:04 pm 
 

We all know my taste (non-white women that could beat me up), and Makoto is absolutely the new Chie. I don't care if she turns out to be the least helpful member in the long run or something (this wasn't the case with Chie thankfully, since Galactic Punt was the best skill in the game), she's never leaving my party.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10527
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:10 pm 
 

Some good gaming news recently:

- Ys VIII has a release date for North America/EU: September 12th/15 2017, respectively. Wee!

- Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen is getting a port on PS4/X1 (only $30). I already have the PC version so I probably won't get it a 3rd time, but it's good for those who missed out on it last-gen and don't have a gaming PC.

- Rime is finally coming out soon, and has been getting mostly positive reviews. Fans of Team ICO games might want to check that one out.

And last but not least....





- MONSTER HUNTER ON SWITCH
Image

A new console MH, finally. This had better get localized, dammit!
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Talented Juli
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:36 pm
Posts: 86
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:22 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
- Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen is getting a port on PS4/X1 (only $30)


stop

just fucking release DD2 already Capcom holy shit
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10527
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:27 pm 
 

Haha, I knooooooooooooooooow. I want it too.

But hey, if this sells well maybe they'll finally make it? >_>
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Talented Juli
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:36 pm
Posts: 86
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:39 pm 
 

if it sells well in the West we get DDO localization
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 7721
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:09 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
We all know my taste (non-white women that could beat me up), and Makoto is absolutely the new Chie. I don't care if she turns out to be the least helpful member in the long run or something (this wasn't the case with Chie thankfully, since Galactic Punt was the best skill in the game), she's never leaving my party.

Party Defense buff + Mediarahan + nuclear attacks which basically nothing ever resists = all-around badass.
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It's also going to be the first part of a trilogy!
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yentass
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:28 am
Posts: 927
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:43 pm 
 

SatanicPotato wrote:
i completed the surge, storyline wise i am not saying its fantastic but its much better than most people are saying, most people seem to think there isnt a story, there is one and it does have some decent moments but its not dark souls or prey, i enjoyed the game i had 2 issues with the game i kept getting lost because in some sections everything looks the same and some parts of the game are frustratingly difficult but it did feel great to get past those sections

I'm about midway in NG++ and I'm still kinda trying to piece the story out; it seems mostly fleshed out pretty well, but with a rather big emphasis on mostly (the ending - or an ending, still remains to be seen - was pretty shit to be honest, but at least we get one, unlike with LotF, so... baby steps, I guess?). Great job with the world-building though, gotta give them that. All in all, The Surge pretty much usurped the lead for GOTY 2017 from Hollow Knight for me, and we're still only halfway in.

In any case, I'd recommend giving NG+ a shot.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10527
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:45 pm 
 

yentass wrote:
All in all, The Surge pretty much usurped the lead for GOTY 2017 from Hollow Knight for me, and we're still only halfway in.

Wha... really? The Surge is that good? Are you saying it's better than even Nioh?
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:49 pm 
 

*raises eyebrow curiously*

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yentass
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:28 am
Posts: 927
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:21 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
yentass wrote:
All in all, The Surge pretty much usurped the lead for GOTY 2017 from Hollow Knight for me, and we're still only halfway in.

Wha... really? The Surge is that good? Are you saying it's better than even Nioh?

Yeah, massive grain of salt there - I don't own (nor intend to own) any consoles, so no Nioh for me (or Horizon: Zero Dawn), sadly. Even so, I can't stress enough - even though it's supposed to be obvious - the highly subjective nature of my statement; "objectively" speaking - NieR: Automata should edge it out pretty handily, but to me - it doesn't. The fact that my tastes seem to brush against the concensus a good portion of the time in both directions shouldn't lend it any authority on taste beyond my own, so to speak.

With all that being said, I assume you brought up Nioh because you want to know how The Surge fares as a souls-like? If so, I need you to elaborate on what attributes do a good souls-like (or a good action game, good hack and slash, whatever you see fit) make for you, and I'll try to describe how The Surge fares against them.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10527
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:25 pm 
 

Um, OK:

- Good, methodical, non-button-mashy combat requiring good timing, spacing and observation, with responsive controls, weighty animations and precise hitboxes
- RPG mechanics that are not overly complicated, but deep enough to favour experimentation and customization (particularly weapon/build diversity that really change your playstyle and how you approach different situations)
- Intricate level design that reward exploration, worthwhile secrets to find, good loot
- Good art direction with striking visuals, especially in terms of monster/enemy design, and environments (memorable architecture, beautiful or grotesque landscapes, etc.)
- Engrossing atmosphere, preferably dark and morbid and creepy, or hauntingly beautiful (e.g. Ash Lake)
- Challenge: punishing on sloppiness and mistakes, but extremely rewarding upon success
- Non-intrusive, non-"cinematic" storytelling
- Minimal hand-holding (e.g. this clever photoshop my worst nightmare xD)
- Possibility of coop/PvP a big plus

As for Nioh vs Souls, Nioh only fails at the character creation aspect, but there are at least different skins you can obtain in-game and the armour designs look great for the most part. Its level design and art direction aren't as great as Souls games, and there are a few forgettable (but still always pretty fun) bosses compared to the iconic Souls bosses, but they're not bad by any means, and still pretty damn good. Its combat mechanics are arguably superior to Souls. Overall I give the nod to Souls series/Bloodborne but Nioh is easily my GOTY right now, with maybe Horizon very close behind (for completely different reasons). Nioh's story is also more "traditional" (cut scenes between levels), though forgettable and just kinda there, but it's minimally intrusive and can be easily skipped/ignored.

FWIW, for other Souls-likes, I also played Salt and Sanctuary and Lords of the Fallen, and found the former to be fantastic (and succeeding at every point above), and LotF to be largely failing, being okay at best (level design, environmental art), bad at worst (no customization, lack of depth in its RPG mechanics, terrible character designs, piss-poor and overly intrusive story, not very challenging, no real atmosphere or sense of dread and/or wonder) and generally just mediocre (everything else), on the above points. I played LotF once and have no desire to revisit it, but I replayed S&S several times trying different builds.

Watching videos of The Surge, especially knowing it's made by the LotF devs, didn't fill me with confidence. Sounds like LotF with better combat but worse art design.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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SatanicPotato
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 2165
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:34 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Um, OK:

- Good, methodical, non-button-mashy combat requiring good timing, spacing and observation, with responsive controls, weighty animations and precise hitboxes
- RPG mechanics that are not overly complicated, but deep enough to favour experimentation and customization (particularly weapon/build diversity that really change your playstyle and how you approach different situations)
- Intricate level design that reward exploration, worthwhile secrets to find, good loot
- Good art direction with striking visuals, especially in terms of monster/enemy design, and environments (memorable architecture, beautiful or grotesque landscapes, etc.)
- Engrossing atmosphere, preferably dark and morbid and creepy, or hauntingly beautiful (e.g. Ash Lake)
- Challenge: punishing on sloppiness and mistakes, but extremely rewarding upon success
- Non-intrusive, non-"cinematic" storytelling
- Minimal hand-holding (e.g. this clever photoshop my worst nightmare xD)
- Possibility of coop/PvP a big plus

As for Nioh vs Souls, Nioh only fails at the character creation aspect, but there are at least different skins you can obtain in-game and the armour designs look great for the most part. Its level design and art direction aren't as great as Souls games, and there are a few forgettable (but still always pretty fun) bosses compared to the iconic Souls bosses, but they're not bad by any means, and still pretty damn good. Its combat mechanics are arguably superior to Souls. Overall I give the nod to Souls series/Bloodborne but Nioh is easily my GOTY right now, with maybe Horizon very close behind (for completely different reasons). Nioh's story is also more "traditional" (cut scenes between levels), though forgettable and just kinda there, but it's minimally intrusive and can be easily skipped/ignored.

FWIW, for other Souls-likes, I also played Salt and Sanctuary and Lords of the Fallen, and found the former to be fantastic (and succeeding at every point above), and LotF to be largely failing, being okay at best (level design, environmental art), bad at worst (no customization, lack of depth in its RPG mechanics, terrible character designs, piss-poor and overly intrusive story, not very challenging, no real atmosphere or sense of dread and/or wonder) and generally just mediocre (everything else), on the above points. I played LotF once and have no desire to revisit it, but I replayed S&S several times trying different builds.

Watching videos of The Surge, especially knowing it's made by the LotF devs, didn't fill me with confidence. Sounds like LotF with better combat but worse art design.

the surge covers about half of what you like imo, i will copy and paste from your quote what it covers

- Good, methodical, non-button-mashy combat requiring good timing, spacing and observation, with responsive controls, weighty animations and precise hitboxes
- RPG mechanics that are not overly complicated, but deep enough to favour experimentation and customization (particularly weapon/build diversity that really change your playstyle and how you approach different situations)
- Intricate level design that reward exploration, worthwhile secrets to find, good loot
- Engrossing atmosphere, preferably dark and morbid and creepy, or hauntingly beautiful (e.g. Ash Lake)
- Challenge: punishing on sloppiness and mistakes, but extremely rewarding upon success
- Non-intrusive, non-"cinematic" storytelling
- Minimal hand-holding (e.g. this clever photoshop my worst nightmare xD)

i mean i still dont think you will like it at all but it does tick a couple of boxes for you but considering how much you do not like the environment i would not recommend it to you

yentass wrote:
SatanicPotato wrote:
i completed the surge, storyline wise i am not saying its fantastic but its much better than most people are saying, most people seem to think there isnt a story, there is one and it does have some decent moments but its not dark souls or prey, i enjoyed the game i had 2 issues with the game i kept getting lost because in some sections everything looks the same and some parts of the game are frustratingly difficult but it did feel great to get past those sections

I'm about midway in NG++ and I'm still kinda trying to piece the story out; it seems mostly fleshed out pretty well, but with a rather big emphasis on mostly (the ending - or an ending, still remains to be seen - was pretty shit to be honest, but at least we get one, unlike with LotF, so... baby steps, I guess?). Great job with the world-building though, gotta give them that. All in all, The Surge pretty much usurped the lead for GOTY 2017 from Hollow Knight for me, and we're still only halfway in.

In any case, I'd recommend giving NG+ a shot.


i have gotten to the 2nd medbay in NG+ and it is very fun still imo i love one of the single rigged weapons you get late in the game but i am trying a new character who is extremely speed based which i suck at right now but i'll improve, i cant think of a game i have enjoyed more released this year so far so it would be up there for me, i still wish there was more variety but the variety there is i do not like(screw those robot dogs), its a really weird game in terms of difficulty in terms of it has a couple of massive spikes which need to be overcome but i like that.

so i am about to play overwatch...this will not go well

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yentass
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:28 am
Posts: 927
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:31 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Um, OK:
- Good, methodical, non-button-mashy combat requiring good timing, spacing and observation, with responsive controls, weighty animations and precise hitboxes

Check, with an emphasis on good timing: the key new mechanic (executions) requires you to actually hold the key for some time (which varies with the limb you're trying to cut: heads come off the fastest, bodies - the slowest), meaning that enemies can easily retaliate in the process. Also, timing consecutive attacks in a combo just right allegedly costs you less stamina to perform them, Lords of the Fallen style, but there's no visual feedback to what's considered perfect timing this time, so I can't really say how significant a role it plays in reality. Can't attest to hitboxes though; I never experienced being hit when I felt I shouldn't have in Dark Souls II and people were complaining about the hitboxes there all the time, and the same goes for The Surge. YMMV.
Morrigan wrote:
- RPG mechanics that are not overly complicated, but deep enough to favour experimentation and customization (particularly weapon/build diversity that really change your playstyle and how you approach different situations)

Here's something I can't stress enough for the general populace - The Surge is a hack'n'slash/action adventure game. It's NOT an RPG (not in a conventional sense, at least). It was never advertised as such, it's just something that caught on by proxy out of the numerous (some might say inevitably so, but I can't say the response by the Souls community to these types of games doesn't irk me a great deal to be honest) comparisons to Dark Souls. That's not to say it doesn't feature the things you've mentioned, but still worth pointing out. There's no sci-fi equivalent of a mage class, or a massive sheet of attributes you need to spend your limited pool of skill points on to define your playstyle - something that one might argue is actually more conductive to experimentation and customization than a traditional RPG setup. The various criteria you've mention actually require a detailed coverage of how leveling and other RPG aspects in this game work, so I will put this a spoiler tag for the sake of brevity (or if an hypothetical interested party would rather discover these on their own), feel free to skim through and see if it contains the answers you seek (good luck with that though):
Spoiler: show
The leveling-up system in this game boils down only to your increasing your "core level", i.e. the energy capacity of your rig. The energy capacity of your rig, in turn, basicaly determines how are you going to experience the game - they determine your level of access to certain areas in the game, what armor you can wear and the sort of implants you could equip. Level of access is probably the most straight forward to cover: throughout the game you'll run into circuits you could overcharge if you meet the core level criteron for them. These can be sorted into three groups - base core level (core level 10 - the game's equivalent of SL1 - is required to unlock all main quest related stuff as well as all the shortcuts to a given area's Ops Station, which serves as a mini-Firelink Shrine. And yes, I said "level" and a singular Ops Station, more on these later), low core level (up to 20-25 I think is required to access some optional stuff) and high core level (reserved to special crates, won't disclose their purpose though).

The armor in this game serves a twofold purpose - the obvious one (defences against different types of damage as well as stability - poise, if you will), and as a mean to alter some of your stats: each extremity has a set of attributes tied to it, to which each particular armor piece responds; your leg armor, for instance, might incur a bonus or a penalty on the stamina consumption while dodging or running, your body armor affects stamina regen, your arm pieces determine attack speed et cetera, with the expected balancing act to match (heavier armor means better defences and higher stability versus higher stamina consumption, that sort of thing). The fact that you can assign armor to each extremity independently (so you have head gear, body armor, two separate arms and two separate legs) gives you more room to control and balance these parameters (or just neglect them entirely and fashion your custom Optimus Prime), as well as more mileage out of an admittedly limited selection of armor sets (12-15 I think, can't check for sure right now). All armor pieces come in sets, and equipping a full set incurs a buff (like health regen, damage bonus at high health, that sort of things) as some sort of consolation prize for being boring. The armor pieces come at a price though - there's no encumberment limitation, however it's replaced with energy limitation, with each armor piece (as well as most implants) having an energy cost attached to it, and total sum of your armor and implants can not exceed the energy level your rig can provide. Seems like a good enough segue...

Implants. This is what dictates the bulk of your experience with The Surge, and are treated accordingly, often being your reward for exploring off the beaten path or completing side quests. These cover a large chunk of applications and often stack and synergize with others, and I don't want to prolong this wall of text fad infinitum and I still have some shit to cover, so I'll just summarize by say that we're looking at something that ranges from conveniences like seeing enemies health bars, through healing items, implants that increase each of your three pools (HP, stamina and energy, the latter is filled by successful strikes against an enemy, depletes outside of combat and is used to perform ancillary functions like executions, drone operation and healing - if the appropriate implant is equipped of course) that scale with your core power up to a stated limit, weapon buffs, and up to leftfield stuff like "bullet time". There's a great variety there (as well as upgraded versions of each implant that warrants it), there are synergies, there are benefits to stacking (equipping duplicates) - all of it has to contend over the limited amount of implant slots as well as the current energy capacity of your rig (your armor also takes up energy, mind).

Briefly on the subject of build diversity as it pertains to weapons - there are five subtypes of weapons in the game. Using a weapon from a certain subtype effectively (by hitting enemies, that is) increases your proficiency with that subtype. There are no other limitations to what weapons could you use (like strength/dexterity requirements) other than those inherent to each weapon type, so you're basically free to use whatever you like in theory. In practice, there's a balancing act involved - maining one weapon guarantees maximum increase in the weapon type's proficiency, but it also means you're limited to one tool, and there are certainly situations where a different weapon type would provide better results; if you're using several, you're better equipped to adapt but that also means that your proficiency gains are divided between more types rather than one.

Morrigan wrote:
- Intricate level design that reward exploration, worthwhile secrets to find, good loot

Check. Triple check on the first part if you like yourself some shortcut porn (remember the single Ops station part? There's one per area close to its entrance, and each area is designed with that in mind - they're mostly compact but packed, often borderline claustrophobic, but there always would be multiple shortcuts to unlock that somehow loop back to that single Ops station).
Morrigan wrote:
- Good art direction with striking visuals, especially in terms of monster/enemy design, and environments (memorable architecture, beautiful or grotesque landscapes, etc.)

Yeah, as SatanicPotato said, this is where we probably lose you :lol:. I'll say this - the way the world is realized is extremely cohesive thematically, with everything "making sense" in look, purpose and placement in relation to the time period (we're talking around 50 years from now one, give or take), for better and for worse. Let's not muck around and focus on the "worse" here - while there's some variety in the locales - the sleek look of an R&D department doesn't look anything like the nitty-gritty of the production floor, for example, if the general setting coupled with the aforementioned cohesiveness sounds like a poor breeding ground for memorable architecture - that's because it probably is. Expect plenty of indoor environments and poorly lit corridors and service shafts. Pretty landscapes? I think I saw a glimpse of what I believe is the Nevada desert that one time, is that what you had in mind? :-P
Morrigan wrote:
- Engrossing atmosphere, preferably dark and morbid and creepy, or hauntingly beautiful (e.g. Ash Lake)

I'd say yeah to atmospheric, but in a way that's not dissimilar to Doom 3, which I guess is not your thing. The NPC interactions deliver the morbid and creepy rather reliably though, which is a good thing they cared to take from Dark Souls' book but not relevant to the point really.
Morrigan wrote:
- Challenge: punishing on sloppiness and mistakes, but extremely rewarding upon success

Check.
Morrigan wrote:
- Non-intrusive, non-"cinematic" storytelling

Check.
Morrigan wrote:
- Minimal hand-holding (e.g. this clever photoshop my worst nightmare xD)

"Minimal hand-holding" is rather apt. It feels like a good moment to disclose that the game is not a seamless open world, but rather an array of about 5 separate areas, with one serving as a hub to which the rest connect. The progression is also semi-linear/Metroidvania-very-lite, in that there's only one way you should be going to progress and are gently funneled through, but actually finding that way is on you, your observation skills and will to explore. You're always free to revisit previous areas though, and even encouraged to do so (the game gives very subtle hints about it that also rely on your observation skills, as well as a small hint when it would be a good idea to do so, because it's considerate like that)
Morrigan wrote:
- Possibility of coop/PvP a big plus

U-uh. Single player only.

Morrigan wrote:
FWIW, for other Souls-likes, I also played Salt and Sanctuary and Lords of the Fallen, and found the former to be fantastic (and succeeding at every point above), and LotF to be largely failing, being okay at best (level design, environmental art), bad at worst (no customization, lack of depth in its RPG mechanics, terrible character designs, piss-poor and overly intrusive story, not very challenging, no real atmosphere or sense of dread and/or wonder) and generally just mediocre (everything else), on the above points. I played LotF once and have no desire to revisit it, but I replayed S&S several times trying different builds.

Watching videos of The Surge, especially knowing it's made by the LotF devs, didn't fill me with confidence. Sounds like LotF with better combat but worse art design.

Don't think I've mentioned it before, but my GOTY list for 2016 pretty much consist of Doom (obviously) and S&S as a runner up. DS3 is nowhere near it, mind. Not relevant to anythng, just something I felt like mentioning.

What is relevant though, is to stress out yet again that Lords of the Fallen was co-developed by Deck13, along with CI Games, with a former The Witcher dev directing it or something to that extent. No, I'm not being anally retentive for the lolz, because it might be worth noting that CI Games went on to make stellar smash hits like Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 (back to the usual selves, in other words), The Witcher dude fucked off back to making Souls/BB/etc. gameplay videos for all I care, and Deck13? Well, they made The Surge. I admit that going in, I was pretty much of the same mindset - these are some of LotF devs, so at worst it would be another enjoyable yet unremarkable romp. Going out though? I played, and still play, a game by a development team that actually understand what made the Souls games special (stuff like intricate level design, attention care to tiny details just to appease the, like, two people who would actually notice this stuff, "show, don't tell"/storytelling by deliberate design, everything serves as a worldbuilding device, as well as the approach to challenge and general feel), then went ahead and made their own game out of it, which about sums up what I want out of my souls-likes. At worst and "objectively" speaking, it renders LotF moot as far as quality of gameplay is concerned. The setting is up to one's tastes, and I can respect that, however.


A little P.S: lately I've seen a bunch of videos about The Surge myself, and if the ones made by ParagonDS and Downward Thrust are some of the ones you've seen - do bear in mind that both of these are prone to the type of asshattery that a "let's get a video out as close to release as possible for viewz, integrity of content be damned" kind of mentality usually brings out as a byproduct.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:47 pm 
 

Thanks for the detailed post, though I admit my eyes glazed over the stuff in the spoiler tag :P Since I probably won't play it soon I'm not interested in the nitty gritty detail of the skill tree or whatever.

I'd be a bit more interested now, even if the art direction sucks; I might get it for cheap at some point during a "drought" period, much like I did with LotF (had just gotten a PS4 during a sale, had played TLoU Left Behind, and Bloodborne wasn't out yet :P), but I'm in no hurry, I guess. However, I'm concerned that you are gushing over this game and seem to be dismissive of Dark Souls III. That doesn't seem right at all. While I loved S&S too, it was still #2 behind DS3 for GOTY 2016.

And yes, arriving in places like Irithyll of the Boreal Valley for the first time was a factor in my enjoyment, among others (to go back again on art and atmosphere). Moments like this are gaming treasures.
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SatanicPotato
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:35 pm 
 

i am seriously addicted to overwatch right now

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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:38 am 
 

I really hope Divinity: Original Sin 2 is a smoother, less buggy experience.

And also some kind of hint/reminder/location system for quests would be nice. Like, "push button to show next quest location on map" would be nice.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:41 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
I really hope Divinity: Original Sin 2 is a smoother, less buggy experience.

And also some kind of hint/reminder/location system for quests would be nice. Like, "push button to show next quest location on map" would be nice.

D:OS was the second best game of 2014. The first was, unsurprisingly, Shadowrun: Dragonfall. Absolutely masterpiece, both of them. Especially Dragonfall! Risen 3 strongly held the rear at number 3.


Gah, 2014 was such a great year for video games!
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:59 pm 
 

Friday the 13th: the Game is out. It's fun (when the servers work properly). Think Evolve meets H1Z1, so it'll be clunky and glitchy at times...but it's still fun as fucking hell. I'd advise to either wait for a deal (be it a good-sized discount) or part of the "free for this month" bundles that PSN/XBL offer), but if you're really into the F13 series? Just get it. Now.
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yentass
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:28 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:40 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Thanks for the detailed post, though I admit my eyes glazed over the stuff in the spoiler tag :P Since I probably won't play it soon I'm not interested in the nitty gritty detail of the skill tree or whatever.

I'd be a bit more interested now, even if the art direction sucks; I might get it for cheap at some point during a "drought" period, much like I did with LotF (had just gotten a PS4 during a sale, had played TLoU Left Behind, and Bloodborne wasn't out yet :P), but I'm in no hurry, I guess. However, I'm concerned that you are gushing over this game and seem to be dismissive of Dark Souls III. That doesn't seem right at all. While I loved S&S too, it was still #2 behind DS3 for GOTY 2016.

And yes, arriving in places like Irithyll of the Boreal Valley for the first time was a factor in my enjoyment, among others (to go back again on art and atmosphere). Moments like this are gaming treasures.

Yeah, well, in retrospective I could've saved me a shit-ton of time and supplant the entirety of that piece of text with "kinda like Nier: Automata mechanics-wise, but without the ability to change your implant loadout on the fly and weapons getting better the more you use them", but that might defeat the purpose a bit since you're not exactly a fan of N:A if I recall correctly.

As far as my dismissal of DS3? Well, ask a hundred people what do they like about the Souls series, and you might get a hundred different answers. My answer would center around the little things more than anything else; we're talking about a series that provided you with, say, bosses that made you feel like an asshole by fighting them - through wordless design only, mind, without a constant textual guilt trip over loading screens lesser games like Spec Ops: The Line would resort to - like Dark Souls, or used geography (like light beaming through a crevice in some twisted parable on child birth) to guide player in an industry obsessed with quest marks like Dark Souls II... The best that Dark Souls III has to come with is... Irithyll (I know you've mentioned it "among others", so there's probably more, but it's a good example for me to make a point around)?

Irithyll sure is pretty as fuck to look at, and if you're a sucker for Gothic architecture I can obviously see why you would consider it a gaming treasure. Someone cares less about architecture and art direction and more about the nitty-gritty, though, like me, will see Irithyll as a castle/cathedral/whichever-piece-of-Gothic-architecture with a fancy color filter that stood out of an endless run of castles/cathedrals/whichever bla bla with different color filters. Because that's what my takeaway from DS III was - endless castles with different camera filters, and fan-service. The core tenets of sitting on ones laurels at its must cynical form (Gothic architecture is about as much of a comfort zone for From as it gets at this point, considering their main output over the last 7 years or so was centered around it. No mean feat to do right, mind, which they do, but context tend to matter in this thing, since no game is judged in a vacuum). Where's the, ahem, soul in that? Where are the Siegwards, the Lucatiels, the NPCs with offbeat yet interesting/emotionally engaging arcs (S&S had that, which is why it gets the nod over DS III; The Surge delivers on these rather consistently)? Where's the "between-the-lines" storytelling through design, found in bosses like Sif and Ceaseless Discharge, or Vendrick (which The Surge delivers on in its own way, rewarding the curious and observant; no ingeniously designed bosses though)? OK, one might mention Soul of Cinder and/or Aldritch, however - both rely heavily on fan service/knowledge of past games for the impact to really work, and in the former's case apparently the designers were so proud of themselves, they actually had to spell their intent out in the armor description, as if they forgot what kind of community they're dealing with.

P.S: To set things straight: Dark Souls III was by no means a bad game, and it easily contained some of the series' bests, like bosses (bosses that talk to you mid fight? more of that please, and even those who weren't were quite a sight to see in motion. Almost a fair trade-off for being killed by as often), the visuals and arguably - soundtrack (boss themes that evolve in sync to the progression of the fight? more of that please). It was a great game actually, just a rather crappy Souls game according to my subjective and tentative standards (even though from what I've seen, the DLCs is where the really interesting bits are). I can still rag on elements of the Soulsborne community if I admit I'm a hypocrite, right?
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:00 pm 
 

I'm not gonna address every bit of that because... well frankly a lot of it is confusing and meandering :P but I'll just say these things jumped out at me:

yentass wrote:
we're talking about a series that provided you with, say, bosses that made you feel like an asshole by fighting them - through wordless design only, mind, without a constant textual guilt trip over loading screens lesser games like Spec Ops: The Line would resort to

Other than Sif and Maiden Astraea, I don't think that's really such a big staple of the series...

Quote:
- like Dark Souls, or used geography (like light beaming through a crevice in some twisted parable on child birth) to guide player in an industry obsessed with quest marks like Dark Souls II... The best that Dark Souls III has to come with is... Irithyll (I know you've mentioned it "among others", so there's probably more, but it's a good example for me to make a point around)?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You want some sort of emotional moment or something? I thought DS3 had plenty of those but it's not really a big deal to me regardless.

Quote:
Irithyll sure is pretty as fuck to look at, and if you're a sucker for Gothic architecture I can obviously see why you would consider it a gaming treasure. Someone cares less about architecture and art direction and more about the nitty-gritty, though, like me, will see Irithyll as a castle/cathedral/whichever-piece-of-Gothic-architecture with a fancy color filter that stood out of an endless run of castles/cathedrals/whichever bla bla with different color filters. Because that's what my takeaway from DS III was - endless castles with different camera filters, and fan-service. The core tenets of sitting on ones laurels at its must cynical form (Gothic architecture is about as much of a comfort zone for From as it gets at this point, considering their main output over the last 7 years or so was centered around it. No mean feat to do right, mind, which they do, but context tend to matter in this thing, since no game is judged in a vacuum). Where's the, ahem, soul in that?

Yes, Souls games have a strong visual identity and gothic architecture and bleak abandoned castles are part of that. As are poison swamps (usually with rickety tribal shacks), lava-filled undergrounds tunnels, creepy forests, skeleton-filled catacombs, etc. If that's not your thing then fine, but I fail to see the problem... it wasn't just Irithyll that was memorable, I really liked the Untended Graves, Archdragon Peak, Irithyll Dungeon (ok, total throwback to Demon's Souls, so what, I love it), Smouldering Lake, and the Undead Settlement.

Quote:
Where are the Siegwards

Um... for the Siegwards, there was... Siegward? :P

Quote:
, the Lucatiels, the NPCs with offbeat yet interesting/emotionally engaging arcs

Anri? I mean, Anri's arc, if you go the Yuria route, is arguably more developed than any other NPC in the series. It has multiple resolutions too.
Spoiler: show
You get married hahahaha, can't beat that!


And Siegward's arc > Siegmeyer's, honestly.
Spoiler: show
The moment he faces his old friend Yhorm with the Stormruler is more epic than anything Siegmeyer does.


Greirat is a true bro. I liked him more than most Souls NPCs.

I didn't care about Sirris' or Eygon/Irina's arc, but there were those, too, if you care about that sort of thing. I mean they weren't great, but still probably more fleshed out than whatever was in S&S...

Quote:
Where's the "between-the-lines" storytelling through design, found in bosses like Sif and Ceaseless Discharge, or Vendrick

Uhhh Nameless King?
Spoiler: show
Only Gwyn's firstborn and all that... if you discount that because "you need to know the previous games" or "fanservice" well I don't know what to tell you, it IS a sequel after all

Also:
Abyss Watchers, Pontiff Sulyvahn (+ Dancer), Oceiros, and if you count Vendrick as being "between-the-lines" (not sure how, he's talked about the entire game through), then surely we can add L&L, Yhorm, the Crystal Sage... c'mon it has that in spades.

Anyway, it seems that the stuff you care the most about Dark Souls is lore and story stuff, which is the total opposite for me, I mean it's kinda neat, and I like some of the obscure details, but it's completely secondary in terms of priority for me. So I guess we won't really see eye to eye on this. I take it The Surge is deep in lore and stuff? But I couldn't care less about that if the atmosphere fails to grab me or the combat and enemy design bores me.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:04 am 
 

Dragonfall was indeed great. I played a bit of D:OS with my long distance gf, that was cool, but we both got kinda tired of it after a while. Woulda been nice if the lore was more interesting.

Can't remember if I've mentioned it in here but I'm playing Underrail and it's awesome, modern day isometric classic not to be missed by Fallout 1/2 fans. Super well made.
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MetallicaTrueFan
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:48 am 
 

Have some amazing Nostalgia for Legend Of Zelda: The Wind Waker and Majora's Mask. Majora's Mask creeped me out as a child and it still kinda does even with my knowledge of the game front to back. The anxiety of getting as much done as possible and having to play the song at the right time. Every passing day in that game becomes increasingly nightmarish and those last 6 hours always get to me. I have never let the moon fall but I have seen others do it so I really don't feel the need to even try.

Majora's Mask had some of my favorite dungeons and bosses. The last two dungeons were challenging but fun and I always had a ball for the Goht and Gyorg boss fights. I guess the games apocalyptic feel has always gotten to me. Its HP Lovecraft influence with such a mysterious and morally confused villain was always interesting. The David Lynch levels of weird always caught me off guard in the past. Majora's Mask is a technical masterpiece with everything in the correct place and at the correct time.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:13 pm 
 

Why does the Surge have such mediocre reviews? I haven't turned on my PS4 in awhile, and I wonder if I should be playing this? Is anyone else looking forward to Sundered and Pyre? I think they are both going to be on all platforms.


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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:02 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
I've been playing N64 a lot lately at my friends place, and I seriously think it puts any video game console out there today to shame. Mario Cart, Super Smash Bros, Perfect Dark, Legend of Zelda and of course Super Mario are some of the best video games ever.


It doesn't have Diablo III, so it loses.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 9:56 pm 
 

I'm enjoying Prey but its design makes little mechanical sense. What's the point of upgrading your inventory space when you can just beeline back to the recycler whenever you want? Why even bother with food and healthkits when you can just run back to a droid to get your health/suit/psi recharged at any time? Why are so many passwords right next to the computer they unlock?

On the plus, the complete lack of respawns and sheer open-endedness is great... but that of course makes it even easier to retreat to your "home bases" whenever you like.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 11:49 pm 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
iAm wrote:
I've been playing N64 a lot lately at my friends place, and I seriously think it puts any video game console out there today to shame. Mario Cart, Super Smash Bros, Perfect Dark, Legend of Zelda and of course Super Mario are some of the best video games ever.


It doesn't have Diablo III, so it loses.

It's funny because the graphics in Diablo 3 are so bare-bones and practically-nonexistent that it probably could have come out on the N64.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:04 am 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
It's funny because the graphics in Diablo 3 are so bare-bones and practically-nonexistent that it probably could have come out on the N64.

....Oh look, another idiot post from Zelkiro
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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:30 am 
 

...dude, Diablo III looks fucking metal. Just all grim and gritty as shit, full of dilapidated crypts and desolate locales filled to the brim with vile monsters. You can almost feel the heat blistering your skin in the desert or the humidity of the jungle by the way those areas are rendered. Top fucking notch aesthetics right there.

EDIT: My brain glitched and thought we were talking about Diablo II for some reason :durr: Still, Diablo III looks nowhere near that bad.

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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:34 am 
 

^ Um, what? That's not really right either. Not as mega-wrong as Zelkiro's post, but its colour palette is vibrant and flashy and everything is very cartoony and non-threatening. I never liked Diablo's clickspam gameplay, but I really miss the actual grimdark look it had. Fuck off nowadays WoW-like cartoony Blizzard! [Edit: hah, missed your edit! But even Diablo 2 still looked too cartoony to me :D]

But yeah calling it bare-boned and non-existent is beyond dumb. The game has very detailed graphics, looks and runs very smooth, and has a gazillion monsters + spell/ability effects flying all over the place and the framerate never drops. An N64 version would have no details, run at 640x480 at the most, look pixellated with muddy textures, jaggies everywhere, stiff animations, no draw distance, and would start stuttering every time more than 3 mobs show up on the screen.
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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~Guest 282118
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:43 am 
 

Ooooh, come on! There ain't nothing cartoony about Diablo II. I even remember it being somewhat scary when I was younger, particularly when you were in underground areas, low on health and healing potions, barely able to see what's around you, and sorrounded by monsters which had an awful tendency to make themselves heard before being seen. In fact, I wouldn't say it's too dissimilar in atmosphere to, say, the first Blood Omen game.

Hopefully, my mind isn't embellishing those memories too much. I haven't played that game since I was, like, 15.

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The Red Snifit
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:31 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:48 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I'm enjoying Prey but its design makes little mechanical sense. What's the point of upgrading your inventory space when you can just beeline back to the recycler whenever you want? Why even bother with food and healthkits when you can just run back to a droid to get your health/suit/psi recharged at any time? Why are so many passwords right next to the computer they unlock?

On the plus, the complete lack of respawns and sheer open-endedness is great... but that of course makes it even easier to retreat to your "home bases" whenever you like.


So you don't have to backtrack every time you pick up an item or take damage?
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:47 am 
 

The Red Snifit wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
I'm enjoying Prey but its design makes little mechanical sense. What's the point of upgrading your inventory space when you can just beeline back to the recycler whenever you want? Why even bother with food and healthkits when you can just run back to a droid to get your health/suit/psi recharged at any time? Why are so many passwords right next to the computer they unlock?

On the plus, the complete lack of respawns and sheer open-endedness is great... but that of course makes it even easier to retreat to your "home bases" whenever you like.


So you don't have to backtrack every time you pick up an item or take damage?

Why dump valuable neuromods into inventory expansion or medical abilities when you can just obnoxiously walk back and forth without penalty? 'Inconvenience' as an obstacle isn't good game design, especially when there are actual obstacles that you need the right neuromods to overcome.
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The Red Snifit
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:31 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:52 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
The Red Snifit wrote:
Why dump valuable neuromods into inventory expansion or medical abilities when you can just obnoxiously walk back and forth without penalty? 'Inconvenience' as an obstacle isn't good game design, especially when there are actual obstacles that you need the right neuromods to overcome.


There aren't any obstacles you need neuromods to overcome (there's even an achievement for not getting any upgrades at all). The opportunity cost for everything is convenience and efficiency.

I'm imagining you right now playing System Shock and backtracking to the first level every time you take damage.
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