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Necroticism174
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 pm 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
dystopia4 wrote:
Anyone into Russian literature? If so, recommendations of some good books would be appreciated.


You can't go wrong with Dostoyevsky (ignore the naysayers...I'm looking at you, failsafe...). He can be a bit dry at times, but he's very psychological. So, if you're into that stuff, go for him. "Crime and Punishment" and "The Brothers Karamazov" are my favorites. Gogol is another really good one. Check out "Dead Souls". And, although he spent a lot of time in America, I would count Nabokov. "Lolita" is a noteworthy, and controversial, pick. My guy Ivan Turgenev is one of my favorites; check "Fathers and Sons" and "First Love". Hope this helps.


I've been thinking of trying to get into Dostoyevsky,mainly cause Bukowski jizzed over him constantly,but I never really knew where to start so this was helpful. Cheers man!
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Aeonblade
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:11 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:48 pm 
 

Hyperion was awesome. I'll probably read Fall of Hyperion eventually just to get the rest of the story, but I hear mixed things so I'm not in any rush.

Started on the Elric omnibus I have tonight. Only got a few chapters in, so not much is happening, but already it seems like it could be pretty good.
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TheAntagonist
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:55 am
Posts: 728
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:17 am 
 

Currently about half way through Latro in the Mist by Gene Wolfe. It's a combo of two novels Soldier of Sidon and Soldier of the Mist. After i read the Book of the New Sun books i was hooked. The worlds that he creates are beyond comprehension and the story lines are sprawling and epic. I started Latro a couple months ago but put it down cause it started to drag. Luckily it is starting to pick up quite a bit towards the end of the first book. There are just so many characters that Latro encounters they have to include an index to who each character is. Other Wolfe novels i have read are: Urth of the New Sun (not so good though), Fifth Head of Cerberus and Pirate Freedom. Nothing has really managed to come close to Book of the New Sun.
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~Guest 282118
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:20 am 
 

I didn't like Poe. Found his writing too bloated and not-to-the-point for my taste. Some of the stories I read from the compilation were cool, but overall I didn't like his writing. I'll just go back to Lovecraft.....

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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:21 pm 
 

I would think you could bring up some of the same stylistic grievances with Lovecraft as with Poe. They're both a bit stale and wordy and "bloated." I do think Lovecraft's concepts are so interesting that he transcends his own inadequacies though...and I probably think the same with Poe, but not to the same degree.
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~Guest 282118
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:36 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
I would think you could bring up some of the same stylistic grievances with Lovecraft as with Poe. They're both a bit stale and wordy and "bloated." I do think Lovecraft's concepts are so interesting that he transcends his own inadequacies though...and I probably think the same with Poe, but not to the same degree.

Sure, Lovecraft is also very wordy and "bloated" like you say, but in his stories shit actually HAPPENS. I don't know, I just find him much more interesting and digestible than Poe. I'm pretty sure he'd slap me for saying that if he were alive, though.

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FromADistance
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:40 pm 
 

I'm currently re-reading Shakespeare's plays.

I think we think of Shakespeare as being a genius the way we think of space as big. We just...generally accept it's so. We have a rough estimation in our minds of how far away the sun and stars are, but we rarely stop to truly think about the distances and scales involved; and when we do, we're overcome with it. It's the same feeling I get when I really get into one of his plays; the breadth of the man's genius is just too much for me to take sometimes.

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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:03 pm 
 

Haha

I hadn't read much Shakespeare when I took a class on him (required for English majors at my Uni...the ONLY required class devoted to a single person). I was converted, but I'm not sure I'd go to such metaphoric lengths to describe his brilliance. :P
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FromADistance
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:06 pm 
 

Never use one word where ten will do, it's the pretentious person's creed.

I'm also a huge fan of Romantic poetry, especially Byron, though Keats and Shelley are a close second and third.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:05 am 
 

I'm in a Shakespeare class at my college and we just got done with two of the ones I hadn't read yet - Measure for Measure and Much Ado About Nothing. Both were pretty decent, but not really his strongest work. I really want to re-read A Midsummer Night's Dream; always fucking loved that one. And soon I'll finally get to dig into the hard hitters like Othello and King Lear which are the huge gaping holes in my Shakespeare education.
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PhilosophicalFrog
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:42 am 
 

Keats is an absolute favorite of mine, one of the most dynamic and beautiful writers.

Emp, I've never been the biggest fan, but always, always loved King Lear, my favorite by far though is still The Tempest. I feel that Much Ado is better seen than read, there's so much body language and witty back and forths that should be seen rather than read.
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Aeonblade
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:45 am 
 

Just finished the first Elric book. Haven't been that into a book in awhile, awesome stuff. Got the two Tale of the Eternal Champion omnibuses, so I have all the main Elric stuff. Looks like I got some good readin' ahead of me.
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SmithMetal84
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:58 am 
 

Halfway through The Road by Cormac M. Strange prose. Interesting book, if you can get past the pretty overt Christian overtones.
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HumanWaste5150
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:21 am 
 

I'm a big fan of Byron and Shelley but I do need to read some Keats... I only read Yeats and always confused them for the same person when discussions arise. I think, as a student of political science and international relations; I have always loved Othello and Julius Caesar. Such a great treatise on power politics and irrationality those two works are.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:32 am 
 

My mom just read The Road, I let her borrow it, never read it myself. She seemed to enjoy it. She is a Christian though.
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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:29 am 
 

SmithMetal84 wrote:
Halfway through The Road by Cormac M. Strange prose. Interesting book, if you can get past the pretty overt Christian overtones.


Christian overtones? Did we read the same book?

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0kill
Patron Saint of Burglary

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:26 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:34 am 
 

I always liked Titus Andronicus as far as Shakespeare's plays go. It's pretty much the depth of Shakespeare meeting the body count of 70's rape and revenge films.
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hakarl
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:48 am 
 

Aeonblade wrote:
Just finished the first Elric book. Haven't been that into a book in awhile, awesome stuff. Got the two Tale of the Eternal Champion omnibuses, so I have all the main Elric stuff. Looks like I got some good readin' ahead of me.

I didn't think much of Elric, mainly because even more than in any other Eternal Champion book a decent beginning was followed by an incredibly lame middle part and stupid ending. I read the Fantasy masterworks omnibus edition thingy, which starts with Elric leading the raiders to Melnibóne and ends with stupid fucking shit about chaos vs order.
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matras
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:03 am 
 

SmithMetal84 wrote:
Halfway through The Road by Cormac M. Strange prose. Interesting book, if you can get past the pretty overt Christian overtones.


Second Razakel's post with a o_O

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SmithMetal84
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:02 pm
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Location: Bolivia
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:22 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
SmithMetal84 wrote:
Halfway through The Road by Cormac M. Strange prose. Interesting book, if you can get past the pretty overt Christian overtones.


Christian overtones? Did we read the same book?


That's what it comes off like to me. Granted, in few places, but still. :P
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newp
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:29 pm 
 

Are you talking about the bearer of the light thing? I saw that as a symbol of the humanity and morality that many people had shed in the post-apocalyptic world rather than anything particularly Christian.

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:23 pm 
 

Christianity definitely doesn't have a monopoly on light vs darkness.
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sortalikeadream
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:30 pm 
 

Someone, perhaps Nabokov himself, said Lolita "gives full treatment to a character Dostoevsky only nervously circled." [paraphrased]

Reading Lolita with this in mind is quite interesting. Nabokov seems to relatively obviously engage Notes From Underground and Crime and Punishment. Perhaps Poor Folk. And probably much that I didn't notice.

And regarding the above, Dostoevsky was a devout Christian most of his life, and this much is evident in his writings. So was Tolstoy. There's no reason a worth reading work of literature can't address religious ideas.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:45 pm 
 

Meh, it's Dostoevsky's preachiness that really put me off of the Bros. Karamazov. If he kept his religion in the background I'd be able to stomach it, many of my favorite authors are/were Christians, but the way he kind of rubs it in your face by having the different brothers represent the various paths in life and having the obviously religious one succeed while the others suffer various crappy fates was just too much. Sorry, but religion is bullshit, and books that preach it as a central theme are bullshit too.
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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:16 pm 
 

Re-reading Stephen King's It for the gazillionth time. What a great novel. My favoirte of all time.

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sortalikeadream
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:02 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Meh, it's Dostoevsky's preachiness that really put me off of the Bros. Karamazov. If he kept his religion in the background I'd be able to stomach it, many of my favorite authors are/were Christians, but the way he kind of rubs it in your face by having the different brothers represent the various paths in life and having the obviously religious one succeed while the others suffer various crappy fates was just too much. Sorry, but religion is bullshit, and books that preach it as a central theme are bullshit too.


I disagree with the dismissal of the text, and find the religious aspects to be easily glossed over as it offers plenty of other angles from which to read it. I doubt very much that I can change your mind about it, but you should at least read some of his other books if you haven't.

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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:06 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
I would think you could bring up some of the same stylistic grievances with Lovecraft as with Poe. They're both a bit stale and wordy and "bloated." I do think Lovecraft's concepts are so interesting that he transcends his own inadequacies though...and I probably think the same with Poe, but not to the same degree.



Again, I really don't think the two are that similar, stylistically. Also, Poe has a lot of something I never see in Lovecraft's writing...humour, and loads of it. While he can be pedantic it's always for a greater cause (often at the reader's expense) and his prose flows much better. I don't dislike Lovecraft at all despite all that...

Re: Russian Discussion. I love Gogol very much but that's based only on his extraordinary short stories. I haven't read Dead Souls because, well, it's unfinished, and thus even though peple say it's his defining work I just don't see how anybody can really understand it as he intended. The story of how he finished the novel and then burned almost the entire manuscript, claiming that the devil had made him write it, is intriguing.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:33 pm 
 

well I wasn't saying they're all that similar, they just have the antiquated language and style of prose in common.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:39 pm 
 

TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Re-reading Stephen King's It for the gazillionth time. What a great novel. My favoirte of all time.


Same here bro. I love king,but he transcended everything with that novel. I've read it like 7 times. I don't think I know another book that has such developed characters that you grow to care for.
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newp
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:59 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
I don't think I know another book that has such developed characters that you grow to care for.


Read more books yo!

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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:53 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Re-reading Stephen King's It for the gazillionth time. What a great novel. My favoirte of all time.


Same here bro. I love king,but he transcended everything with that novel. I've read it like 7 times. I don't think I know another book that has such developed characters that you grow to care for.


Yeah, honestly It kinda ruined books for me for a while. It makes most other novels look stale and childish in comparison. I'll be reading Dan Simmons and be like "NAH BRO I WANNA KNOW ABOUT WHAT KINDA LUNCH HE PACKED IN 1958 FUCK PROPULSIVE PLOT DEVELOPMENT"

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~Guest 282118
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:58 pm 
 

Any praise being given to Stephen King's It is something I can support without a shadow of a doubt.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:59 pm 
 

CorpseFister wrote:
Necroticism174 wrote:
I don't think I know another book that has such developed characters that you grow to care for.


Read more books yo!


Gotta say, as much as I love King, this is true. I like King for how big and fun his stories are, and he's written some awesome books but there are lots of ones with better developed characters and more intricate writing.
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Abominatrix
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:09 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Gotta say, as much as I love King, this is true. I like King for how big and fun his stories are, and he's written some awesome books but there are lots of ones with better developed characters and more intricate writing.


Not a big fan of his but, as I've said before here, I always kind of respected/admired him, and i have to agree with you. The book just went on, and on, in the usual "I'm going to stretch a pulp story to epic length proportions and give all the characters gigantic backstories with some juicy events to keep people hooked" fashion. Also, the way he kept hinting that there was another force behind everything was almost funny...I think someone said something like "and then there was The Turtle" on page 40, and I thought something like "the..turtle? all rightythen!"...and then you didnt' see a reference to a turtle again until page 500. And when you finally did, it was, "TOO BAD, FELLAS, THE TURTLE'S DEAD!! MUAHAHAHA!"
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:11 pm 
 

I quite enjoy IT, it's a very entertaining book. That whole giving the characters incredibly detailed backstories thing is a lot of fun. But I just meant that in general, King isn't the pinnacle of making great characters, and even he knows it. Read some of the classics, guys.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:17 pm 
 

Oh, I admit it's entertaining, and it's probably a good half of what keeps people reading his books. I mean, there was that twelve-year-old freak who killed animals and such, who was only actually involved in the action for a few pages, but you still got to read all about his life story and all the sick shit he thought of, and it was obviously done to keep you turning the pages. It even worked on me, so it's not like I'm exactly complaining..it's just a form of exploitation, is all.
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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:31 pm 
 

I fancy myself pretty well read (though I guess that is subjective), and still considering King in the higher echelon of character-developers. What classics in your guys' eyes have the most well-developed characters? Outsides of Kings work, I've gotta say Faulkner's Sanctuary has some of the best developed and most memorable characters I've ever read in it.

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hakarl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:00 pm 
 

Gormenghast has some of the most memorable characters. After reading it, it feels like I've met and talked with Dr. Prunesquallor. Flay seems like someone from a recurring dream. When I read Tad Williams' The Dragonbone Chair, I can't help but think of Morgenes as Prunesquallor. Peake had the ability to make some of those characters truly live and breathe in my imagination. The character development is quite peculiar and some characters are hard to follow (Swelter, Titus himself), however.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:54 pm 
 

Some Stephen King discussion here. Good. I'm a big fan although his work after Tommyknockers became alot less interesting.

I got done reading The Dead Zone this morning. I think this is one of the the author's favorites but I found it a little overall disappointing and slow. I disagree about his character writing ability. I think SK is brilliant in that department but Greg Stillson was not a very well written nor plausible antagonist for the story and that is another big flaw of the novel. I didn't even Johnny Smith was very defined either. And I thought the political undertones were a failing too.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:34 am 
 

CorpseFister wrote:
Necroticism174 wrote:
I don't think I know another book that has such developed characters that you grow to care for.


Read more books yo!


Why would you assume I'm not well read because of that statement? There are a bunch of other books that have pretty developed characters,but I usually don't give a shit about them. They don't make me care in the way that book did.
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