This is a childish provocation. The Islands are in dispute, so for you are Falklands and for us Malvinas. The fact here is that the Islads are in Argentinan sea, and were invaded by the brithish in 1883, and diplaced Argentinian authorities and population. So yes, they are Argentinian and are occupied by the British

British people defending the empire of the XIX century really amaze me. They are the only country proud of their genocidal campaigns.

?
Incorrect. Britain first claimed and settled the islands in 1765. Argentina became a country in 1816. Spain never mentioned the 'Malvinas' when ceding territory to Argentina, Argentina just assumed Spain still disputed them at the time and they were therefore included. Argentina never had any notable presence on the islands other than sneakily trying to occupy them in the 1820s when British attention was elsewhere. 99.8% of the population voted to remain British in the 2013 referendum, which they have peacefully lived on for nearly 200 years. The matter is closed. It can only be re-opened if you take the matter to the UN Supreme Court of Resolution (which the UK is more than happy to do, but Argentina has frequently walked away from in the past because they know they'll lose) or if you get a president stupid enough to attempt another invasion.



Interesting you'd actually claim that, when:

(a) The British Empire is largely viewed negatively in the UK these days.
(b) There was never an indigenous population on the Falklands to begin with.
(c) Why is it that, compared to other South American countries, Argentinians look so European? Because your ancestors committed one of the most horrendous genocides against the indigenous population of what is now Argentina. You likely have little to no indigenous blood in you. If you stop and think, it's incredibly hypocritical to bring up genocides committed in the British Empire. Unless you're of considerable indigenous Argentine descent (in which case you may disregard this point), you're no more indigenous to Argentina than the Falkland Islanders are to the Falklands.
(d) If it came to it, you would support the displacement of thousands of innocent people just to satisfy your blind patriotism. 99.8% of Falkland Islanders voted to remain a British territory. That's democracy, something you have been vouching for throughout the entire thread.

It's no wonder right wing leaders get elected in Argentina. They mess the country up, but all they have to do is cry 'Malvinas!' and the people are won over by bloody-minded patriotism.Argentinians seem to get so riled up at the mere mention of it. Over here, we don't, we just roll our eyes and think 'here they go again...' or 'are they really still going on about that?'. Conquering the islands seems much more important as a perceived 'moral victory', than what you'd actually do once you theoretically have them (stick up a few victory monuments and...then what?).

Before you comment further on imperialism or my apparent support for the British Empire, I don't support it at all. I'm Welsh, was born in Wales and have lived here all my life, and am a staunch supporter of Welsh independence (and greater Celtic independence). In effect, Wales was the very first colony of what became the British Empire, and Westminister has spent the best part of 750 years treating us like crap, which they continue to do to this day (Westminster and their media lapdogs love the Union, but that's so they can keep exploiting the Celts). I also genuinely have nothing against Argentina or Argentines in general.

Chill out about it, guys. You'll live longer.

This thread is not about Malvinas, but still the Question of the Malvinas has been defined by the United Nations as a special and unique case of decolonization with an underlying sovereignty dispute; therefore, unlike in most colonial cases, the principle of self-determination is not applicable.
As I stated before, the islands are in dispute, wether you like it or not. About what you said Argentinians killing natives, I guess that the UK has waaaaaaay more sins than us (Africa, India, the opium war in China). So, you may say whatever you want, the fact is that the islands are in Argentinian territory. We have yo carry the cross of the war initiated in 1982 duing a militar dictatorship here, it wasnt a "democratic" war (if such thing exists)

That is a black legend invented by the British to promote anti-Hispanism... The "real" Argentines are the mestizos (or "mixed race", as you guys say), and they always existed before Argentina existed as a country in 1816. The wave of European immigrants started in 1870 and slowed down since 1940, and they always mixed up with local people. And Argentines are not so European-looking either, the further you get from the Rio de la Plata area, the less white the people are such as Sergio Agüero, La Mona Jimenez, Carlos Tévez, La Bomba Tucumana, Mercedes Sosa, etc. The majority of the white population is concentrated in the south and center of the country but they are like half of the population in general terms.

But what was said above does not refute your statement, so I will continue. Argentina never had great indigenous civilizations like Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala or Mexico, it was only a semi-depopulated territory where nomadic indigenous people lived and they were a very small number. In 1810, during the wars of independence, Argentina with a huge territory ranged from 700,000 people, while Bolivia had 1 million and Paraguay, being smaller, had 500,000 people. So now you have an idea. European immigration was used to populate the country. If some crimes against the indigenous people occurred, they were in the viceroyalty era, being Spain responsible for those crimes. Then you have the Conquest of the Desert, an expansionist event of Argentines who had the complicity of indigenous people to defeat their enemies, who were other tribes.


That is a very banal view. I am one of those who think that not everything must have to be black or white. Politics is full of nuances. When Milei won, the international media called him the Argentine Trump, but in reality, Milei and Trump are opposites in some aspects. Trump is a protectionist, Milei is a libertarian...

Yes, it's certainly still disputed in that sense, but both sides' positions are unmoving and the islanders voted overwhelmingly to remain British. The matter is effectively closed is there's nothing further that can realistically be done to resolve it. The Falklanders aren't going to change their minds any time soon, and neither the UK nor Argentina want to waste more lives in another war. The genocide thing, it was more of a response to San Peron. I'm not denying what the British did in their colonies, and yes it was to a greater degree. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of San Peron's statement.



Even so, in the viceroyalty era under colonial Spain, if it occurred it occurred. The British Empire no longer exists bar odd remnants almost exclusively limited to islands such as the Falklands. I'm aware that the indigenous Argentines were more similar to native North Americans (excluding Mexico, which is technically NA). I'm mainly using the looks comparison with your football team. Say, compared to Chilean footballers, Argentines look much more European. If the wave of immigrants came in the 1870s and 1940s (wasn't it the 1940s when a wave of Italians migrated there?), then many Argentines arrived in Argentina after the British had already significally settled the Falklands.

Regarding the Conquest of the Desert, it's a similar tactic that the British used. In the Medieval times, the English used the same tactic to conquer Wales and Ireland. I have read about a major genocide to the indigenous people in the far south of Argentina, though. Again, as I said to the chap above, it was to point out that there is an air of hypocrisy to San Peron's statement about British people defending the British Empire and the genocides committed (even though no such thing ever happened in the Falklands, so it was hardly a relevant point).

As for the right wing comment, that's a fair point. The main point I was trying to make is that a political leader bringing up the Malvinas seems to work extraordinarily well as a rallying cry, to the point where it seems easily exploitable.

I don't know why the british guys on the forum started to talk about the Malvinas in a thread that was about the political actuality of our country. It seemed like a useless provocation againts our territorial sovereignty.

And for all the acusations againts our people. Really guys? The British Empire sons are critizing Argentina for their past? Come on man, be fair. You guys conquered and slaved almost all the countries in the world, is not serious to talk about Argentina's past with indigeneous people. Which are part of our nation since the start of our history.

Okay, 3 things I have heard from Argentina these days and let's see if my Argentinean friends can confirm if they are hoaxes and exaggerations.

1º Milei has authorised companies to pay their workers with milk and meat. It is supposed to be a smart thing to do because the currency is worthless etc, but I would find it funny if it were true after the anti-communists have said so many times that people in communism were paid in bowls of rice.

2nd There is a new law that guarantees not to go to jail for killing in self-defence. This in theory I would see it as good, nobody deserves to go to jail for self-defence, sadly and more for the context of Latin America, what I read is "You can kill a poor person if he tries to violently rob you".

3º A gathering and manifestation is understood to be a meeting of more than 3 people in a public space, and the police will be able to act against them. If this is true, it is not funny. This law was in my country many years ago, when it was a dictatorship.

Greetings Argentinian friends, I await your response.

Yeah man, is all true. It's a dramatic situation here, this will end badly, I don't see how this won't end with lots of dead people on the street fighting police brutality. I don't know why people support this dystopian reality that we are living in right now, but it's a lot man, it's a lot to take in. In the meantime, we are trying to survive as we are getting demolished by inflation and this authoritarian demagogue.

That sounds very convenient if you don't say everything. Everything must be mentioned. Now people can also negotiate employment contracts in any currency such as dollars and cryptocurrencies. And I save in cryptocurrencies because in case you didn't know, there have been absurd restrictions on the purchase of dollars for a long time and the average Argentine had to save in pesos watching their savings devalue, or ultimately, make a "plazo fijo" to supposedly make the money work (which still lost value and was surpassed by inflation anyway)...

After the dollar value was actualized, the prices were fixed and smuggling was stopped. At least here in Córdoba, the price of meat doubled but in some businesses I saw the price decrease by 25% once the holidays passed. This is how the free market works. The way things are going, I hope that in a few months the market will regulate itself for other products.

Don't get me wrong, if I ask people here from Argentina it is to know how things are there, obviously I don't have all the data, but nothing of what I ask is in bad faith.

Hi there.
1º That is not true. You can negotiate with the employer how you want to get your salary, if you want it in milk and meat, is your deal. But most people will preffer some kind on money
2º Self defence, the law says nothing about rich or poor. Self deffence, like in most countries.
3º The police will act against any gathering that violates the law, like cutting streets or destroys public or private property. You can congregate and protest if you want, just dont tread on others wrigts and properties
So there you go, all three are inacurarte.

On the second point, you know perfectly well what I'm talking about, I didn't say anything about the law, but about the problem in the social context where it is used.
And on the third point, yes, the police can act if they break the law, the problem is if the law is used as a form of repression, and that is what is in doubt about Milei's policies, the laws of repression of public assembly are something that exists and has existed in various dictatorships, and in the article I read it identified a grouping of 3 people in a public place as one where the police can intervene with authority if it is an illegal protest.

I'm asking good faith questions, don't answer me condescendingly or obviating the points of my queries or I'll have to take you for just another fucking brainless right winger who is capable of defending a dictatorship happening in front of him just because he won't accept he is wrong.



I don't think I need to explain that the mere fact that this exists gives free rein to the police power to interfere and harass citizens for the simple fact that they are in the public space.

First of all, if you feel mistreated by my comments, that is your problem, I have no intentions to insult or attack you. If you want to assume that I condone a dictatorship just to justify myself, is your oppinion, is wrong, but still your oppinion ande you are free to have it.
On the second issue, I was telling you that most countries in the world have the Self deffence figure in their laws, but here until now we had a "garantista" model, were the victim become guilty, and the criminal bacame a victim.
I dont get what you mean in the third case. It says that if there are 3 or more people and use intimidation or force against a public servant, these 3 people are going to jail, like in every other counrty.
Look, I dont know where you are from, but in most countries this is common sense, if you break the law, you go in jail. That is it.

You know perfectly well what I am saying, your first response was in bad faith, I commented that the law seemed fine to me in principle but due to the context of Latin America and its social problem of poverty and delinquency I could not help but see this law as one that will bring negative consequences for poor people, who are the most vulnerable and most likely to be involved in altercations. You respond by saying that the law doesn't say anything about rich or poor, mixing my comment about the law with the law itself, showing that either you didn't understand what I wrote or that you wanted to make me look stupid.

And I hate to burst your bubble of the Argentinean exception for everything, but there are more countries where homicides in self-defence are also handled like this, you are not the only ones where this happens.

And again, in the third case it is clearly specified there, a gathering of 3 people in a public environment can be considered an illegal protest, so if you are with two friends in a square, the police have the right to get in the way, harass you, arrest you or send each of you home. That is a law of a repressive police state. And I find it so naive of you to say "if you break the law, you go to jail" as if that wasn't the basic mechanism of any dictatorship, what would happen if tomorrow in your country they outlawed a political party and it was illegal to be a member of it and everyone went to jail for it, would you agree with all that because "of course, they broke the law, it's their fault"?.

That's quite funny because that also happened in the previous government just a few years ago. They used the quarantine as a pretext to forcibly disappear people like Franco Maranguello, Facundo Astudillo, Florencia Morales, and others to name a few, and only because they were "common people", while on the other hand, to give you an example, the government did allow privileges for people close to Maradona which allowed them to gather massively when Maradona died (that is, for the same reason they persecuted other people who end up arrested). In this case, the pandemic was fine for some and illegal for others.

I understood what you said and I didnt want to make you look stupid, but I want to live in a place where if you commit a crime, you go in jail. Not a dictatorship, but a democratic place with clear rules. If you steal something, and you get cought, you pay for it. Simple as that. I know in Latin America we have an issue with poverty, but in order to solve our poblems we have to set clear rules and stick to them.
I never said we were the only ones, that is why i wrote "in most countries". And I described how things are here because I dont know where you are from, just that.
And the third case, you misunderstood the law, it doesnt say that 3 people gather together are considered illegal protesters, you csan protestr all that you want, alone or with a bunch of people, as long as you dont invade the street not allowing peoples free circulation (wich is guaranteed in our constitution) or attack or intimidate a public server or destroy public or private property.
Look, at this point I think you just want to pick a fight just for the sake of it. I ve been respectfull and pacient explaining things that are pure common sense. If you want to think that the Milei administration is a dictatorship go ahead, as I stated befre, is your oppinion. Good luck and stay metal

I think it's great that you want that, but you're not responding to the fact that laws can be used in favour of a dictatorship, so that mentality of "if you break the law you should go to jail" is not telling me anything, it's a phrase for a 5 year old to understand the basics, but laws should be to maintain the safety and equality of all, so the moment laws are used to promote inequality or take away rights I don't give a shit about them being laws, they can't be justified, they are made by people not divine entities. Besides, you yourself have given the perfect example with the law of legitimate defence, in your own words if someone murders someone they should go to jail, but now if there has been legitimate defence, even though there is a murderer and a victim there is no jail for the first one. Don't you see that the laws are full of grey areas to debate? It is totally innocuous to just say "if you commit a crime you go to jail" because, what is considered a crime? In some countries infedility and homosexuality are banned by law, is it ok for those people to go to jail or be executed for breaking the law? There is no "simple as that" in that matter, sorry.


I never said that, I said that with this law, from a police point of view, the fact that you are in any public space with two friends is reason enough for the police to intervene, interrogate you, arrest you, kick you out and whatever. And that is a violation of rights and a law where a police state is reinforced because from the moment you are in a square with a group of friends all together you are already a suspect and you are at risk of police brutality if the agent of the state decides so. And that kind of laws are common in dictatorships, I am from Spain, we had a military dictatorship for 40 years and there was a law of repression against masonery and communism where it was illegal to hold public or private meetings of more than 5 people, that's why I say that this law and this power given to the police is dangerous.

I have not said that Milei's administration is a dictatorship, yet, what I have said and what I maintain is that some of his measures are absolutely dictatorial, maybe he does not make any more of this style, but the ones already made are there. And make no mistake, I am not looking for a fight, I have asked you in a good way, but it is true that it is frustrating me that you answer me things that have nothing to do with what I say, I don't know if it is you who doesn't understand me or me that I am explaining myself very badly.

Ah and lastly, what you call common sense does not exist, if you study a little sociology you will realise that this is nothing more than what you assume to be normal due to the circumstances of your life, but that does not mean that it is the reality, it is only your interpretation.

Man, you wrote all that again when in the previous comment I said that the government of Alberto Fernández used dictatorial measures and police abuse to forcibly disappear people, taking repressive actions against common people and favoring those close to the government. Do you want to come and give us lessons on something we already went through recently? Abuse of authority has always existed regardless of whether it is left-wing or right-wing (and I emphasize this point because we didn't see you fervently comment here when Fernández's government did the same thing that worries you now). And regarding your point about self-defense, "even though there is a murderer and a victim there is no jail for the first one", it's something that changes nothing and rather seems that you described an everyday reality. How many cases of motochorros are there that assault, kill and go unpunished? Either it's them or it's us.

1º I didn't see your comment before writing that one
2º What the fuck are you coming to recriminate me about Alberto Fernandez if this post only exists since 2023, I am not even argentinian, I am interested in Milei because he is an anarcho-capitalist, although he seems to be more and more in words than in deeds, and I was interested to see how he was going to govern the country. And every time the anarcho-capitalist guy, the "Libertad Carajo" guy, who advocates abolishing the state but is using the state as a method of repression I will say it, because I can and because it is funny.
3º I have not pronounced myself either for or against the law of legitimate self-defence, I have only mentioned that it is a nuanced issue that cannot be reduced to a simple "you break the law, you go to jail".

Guys, first of all, happy new year to all!

I think Milei is a dangerous guy, I don't think inflation, unemployment, low salaries, and our economic problems justify the insanity of this guy who kind of wants to demolish our democratic institutions, the president should govern for all the population, not only for his voters. I think he is doing a pretty similar thing to the one Trump and Bolsonaro did in their respective countries. He is eroding the power of Congress and in a very populistic and demagogic way, he is dictating "urgency" decrees that repeal or add hundreds of laws without anyone having the power to say a thing about that, and if the rest of the opposition politics say something, they are accused of being against the change of the situation and putting sticks on the road to the new administration. If that behavior isn't authoritarian, then I don't know what it is.

I hope peace can be brought to the home of the Argentine families, but the neoliberal government's precedent in the country really left me without any hope for the near future. I hope 2024 to be a better year than 2023 with less political violence.

I don't have much experience with Argentinians, but that hasn't been my perception of them at all, to be honest. So I do wonder where the stereotype comes from. And even the Argentinians I see on the media here(football players) generally don't come across as arrogant or bad professionals.

Unrelated, but anyone reads Mafalda here?

I love Mafalda.

But I also love soup.

That character quirk of hers always amused me. Because I really liked soup when I was a kid and don't remember any other kid I knew not liking soup either.

I had a small red football with art of the Mafalda characters when I was a kid back in 90s.

I've tried to do some research a long time ago, but few of its strips seem to have been translated into English. The rest of the world needs to know of Mafalda.

To my older trans-Andean brothers, what was the general opinion of the Argentinian metal/rock community about the Beagle conflict with Chile?

(For those interested, here's the Wikipedia link)

As far as I know this conflic has been solved in the 80s, and I guess we both are happy with the result of the negotiation. But I live pretty far from there so you shoud ask to the people from Santa Cruz and Tierra del Fuego (badass name for a province!!!) in the far south of the country

turns out january was the first month in 12 years where argentina had a budget surplus. pretty incredible i'd say, i hope the people there will feel it themselves as soon as possible

Argentina's poverty rate skyrocketed by about 12% as a result of Milei's drastic cuts to get that surplus. It sounds like people are feeling it in a pretty bad way.

I don't think I've seen Mafalda translated either. I read a lot of those comics when I was first learning Spanish. And yes, the rest of the world is missing out.