We live in terrifying times, don't we? Terrible news is always at the front of people's minds and it seems like worse news is always on the horizon, and this seems to be pushing almost everyone to a breaking point. It'd be nice to talk about this on here.

I have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and the drastic reduction in social interactions and restrictions on everyday life that this pandemic has made it way worse. Unlike in pop culture, I'm not at all neat, my room is a mess, but I certainly am constantly subjected to obsessive, intrusive thoughts. The thoughts I get are really weird and almost all of them have something to do with me somehow being forced to be something I don't want to be. Recently I had the idea that something in my life could potentially cause me to become a born-again Christian, which really bothered me and I couldn't shake it for days. The funniest part is that I consciously tried avoiding looking at religious subject matter in my album collection or Spotify so I could distract myself.

How is everyone else holding up?

I wish I could help you, but I'm no expert nor I have any relatable personal experience to share as I've always been mentally stable. Try posting here https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95623 and see if it's possible to make an appointment with psychologist, despite of the pandemic and American health system being slightly off-function anyway.

I have a psychiatrist already, but I appreciate your concern. I intended this more just for the discussion of the subject matter.

I'm an introverted hermit so the lifestyle of staying home and practically never going out or being near anyone is perfect. Self-employed before the pandemic sitting on my computer, so nothing really changed in my personal life. The only thing giving me anxiety is every damn Seahawks game. I feel you, though, Ink. Seattle been through a bunch this past year.

I'm pretty much with you there. I do want to cultivate healthier habits in terms of forming friendships/relationships, being less lazy, and doing some digital detox (not to mention the physical benefits of getting outside), and I've often gotten down on myself for "failing to be caught up" in that regard. But pandemic life does allow me to put a lot of those aspirations on pause, and realize that practically everyone is in limbo, which is honestly kind of a relief psychologically.



Although I don't have OCD, I did definitely find it a relief to learn that intrusive thoughts are a thing!

Wikipedia:


It's interesting that some of these thoughts are religiously charged. I've definitely had occasion to wonder about the role played by religion and its dark underbelly in people's thought-life. E.g., I've had a drug-induced panic attack (just pot!) in which I genuinely believed I might be in Hell - it was impossible for me not to walk away from that thinking I had some unresolved spiritual issues.

More significantly, I know someone who at one point was struggling for months on end with a severe thought-disorder of some kind, eventually treated with psychiatry (which made a large difference); this person was agonizing every day over the certainty of damnation on account of committing some unspecified "mortal sin" in the distant past. This sort of thing must've been more common in Puritan times or whatever; for all I know, in hardcore fundamentalist circles, it might still be.

Sadly, the most I was able to offer this person was to say something along these lines:

Thoughts, for all you know, are "just thoughts." They aren't (necessarily) faithful and factually accurate insights into reality, though they do tend to present themselves in that light to the person who has them.

In theory, there are two opposing-extreme positions available to us in understanding just what thoughts are: One extreme is to say they are meaningless electrical activity in the brain. The other extreme is to treat them as infallible, undistorted renderings of The Truth. In practice, we normally muddle around somewhere in the middle, oscillating in the direction of one extreme and the other, as it suits our interests. But we normally do pretty well (though it helps to have other people as sounding boards) in distinguishing between thoughts that helpfully alert us to real threats in our environment, and thoughts that burden us with pointless anxiety and neurosis.

Anyway, I figure that just reflecting on that ambiguity - realizing that we can't conclusively refute either extreme - can help a person emotionally neutralize the more bothersome thoughts, and be placed in a better position to challenge them. (This thought admittedly seems circular and self-serving - but I want to say that's kind of the point!) The ideal would be to relate to difficult and unhelpful thoughts in much the same way as we normally relate to indigestion and gas. "There's that annoying thing that's happening again," versus, "Shit, I really am going to Hell, my life really is over..."

I don't know firsthand how mental-health professionals actually treat a person with a thought-disorder, but I can't help suspecting that part of it involves reiterating that message from many different angles. What have you found in your case to be helpful?

There's a bit of linguistic ambiguity that makes discussing exactly what an intrusive thought is difficult.

"I thought about it" can either mean
A) "It occurred to me" or B) "I seriously considered it"

Plenty of thoughts aren't true, and there's so much about the mind we don't know.



OCD is an anxiety disorder, so medications that treat that can be helpful, though in my own case the mileage I get out of them varies greatly depending on the day.

Being told that one's OCD obsession is imaginary provides momentary relief, but in the long run it's like picking at a scab - People with OCD will seek reassurance over and over and over again until the end of time, because no proof is enough that the upsetting thought topic is false. What's necessary is therapy to train the mind to recognize that intrusive thoughts are irrelevant to day-to-day life, and to focus on other things when they occur. Instead of reading for the third/fourth/fifth time the same article or forum post that's pertinent to what's bothering you, instead practice guitar or a fun video game or socialize with friends.


They're getting rid of the damn pink elephant sign!

What are decent "natural" ways of dealing with depression and mood swings?
Medication is good and all, but it's a bit expensive and I can't always have it because I can't consistently get a prescription (which makes the unstable days feel pretty tiresome), I know some plants and food have good effects that help with that, which I might try to consume more, but what else can I do?

Speaking as a hypomanic bipolar, with touches of OCD, anorexic tendencies and some extreme, intense, life-controlling phobia problems, I can tell you for myself, personally, CBT and DBT have done more for me than any medication, other therapy or counselling or therapy has.

I've been through the wringer. Psychologists, Psychiatrists, EMDR, CBT, Thrive Program, Trauma-based therapy, Hypnotherapy. I've spent thousands of dollars, and travelled for treatments. I've been on probably close to a dozen different medications in the last 20-25 years.

It's ridiculous, and when I first started doing it, I thought it was the most trivial and elementary stuff ever, but I was told to start with some absolutely basic and simple things, which started to snowball into full lifestyle and thought pattern changes.

You obviously can't re-route your brain to not be bipolar or OCD, but you can change the pathways in your brain of how you react and deal with those things. It takes a tremendous about of time and work, but luckily, the work is relatively easy to do, it's just hard to stick to it.

My hatred of the job I've had for the last year and a half supersedes any concerns I've had with this election.

I've been applying to jobs, but the feeling of being trapped due to Corona while the work at this shit hole, life sucking job continues to ramp up is pretty terrible.

I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder many years ago. I have been lucky enough to have it be generally under control the last few years. I still get flare-ups every now and again, so I guess it'll never truly go away.


Best of luck, mate. Being stuck in a job you hate can certainly be terrible.

Interesting. Could you possibly go into a bit more detail on this if possible? What were the simple things you started with?

Absolutely.

It will totally sound useless, trivial and insignificant at first, but the first step was literally watching how you answer questions like "how are you?" Many of us use the term "not bad". Just trying changing that to "I'm alright" or "I'm okay", even if you feel the exact opposite. Bad is a negative word, and I've come to learn Negative words, even used in double-negative NOT/BAD, still have the same effect on the brain.

One of the other first steps was watching your "but" or "also" statements, and flipping them. Example:

"Yeah, work went by super fast but tomorrow is going to be a shitshow". Not only does this statement already make tomorrow seem unpleasant (which we don't know with certainty, anyway), but it leaves you on the negative, which can unknowingly create anxiety about tomorrow. Try switching that statement around and swapping one single word:

"Yeah, tomorrow MIGHT be a shitshow, but today went by super fast".

This stuff all seems really, really elementary and silly. It's basically the "fake it till you make it" game. However, we as humans are very negative people. Being upbeat or positive isn't cool. Many memes you see are negative.

This doesn't mean you need to walk around like life is all sunshine and rainbows and flowers. These are just very basic, simple stepping stones to gently introduce your brain into changing the woven neurological (negative) pathways.

That's all for today's lesson! Tomorrow I will get into French Philosopher Émile Coué, and how his very early ideas of 'fake it till you make it" can start changing your pathways today! Lessons are free!

(all joking aside, I am fully prepared to get flamed about this. I was - and still am - a very ill individual. But I promise you, I've made vast improvements in my life with my cognitive and dialectal behaviour changes. If you think this sounds cult-y or brainwash-y, just remember, we've been programmed by everything around us for the opposite. Being positive can be fun!)

Thanks, much appreciated. Will take that onboard and see if I can apply it.

Not silly at all. Taking small steps to tame or challenge or reprogram the jerk-brain is important, and positivity is vital.

Hey, if I can use my experience to help anyone even a fraction of a percent, I would be happy. One more little note/tip for now. Watch yourself even when do what I call "hoping negatively." Example, upon making plans for something outside. We are much more programmed to say the sentence "I hope it isn't shitty" instead of "I hope it's a nice day".

Apply that to more stuff. They've literally done numerous tests where they've give people big pieces of glass and told half of them "DON’T DROP IT" and the other half "HOLD ON TO IT". I can't remember the percentages, but you can imagine the people told "Don't Drop It", in fact dropped it more times than the people told "hold on to it." We can apply this to any pressure situation. I think I remember reading somewhere that athletes, performers, musicians that end up programming their brain into "don't mess up" or "don't drop the pop-fly" or "don't forget your line" are more likely to fail than those who focus on "execute your task", "catch this ball", "remember your lines".

This is really great. Even neurotypical people can learn this.

And yes, I have heard this, too. I have heard it in the context of being late. Say you're late to a meeting or something. Instead of saying "sorry for being late," say "thank you for waiting." This helps with building confidence and not starting on a low note.

I will try this next time I am late for a business meeting. I will let you know how it goes.

I don't think it's a guaranteed win.

My go-to is "I'm sorry to keep you waiting." I guess that's halfway there!

More on-topic: The more I think of my therapist, and therapists in general, the more amazed I am with what they do for a living. It's kind of mind-blowing; if you're in the profession, you definitely have my admiration. A good therapist (if mine is any indication) treats their patients with "unconditional positive regard" - enough said, right? To lend a more-or-less arbitrarily selected person your attention, caring, and emotional support, no matter what; "I can't really deal with this person and their problems today" - never an option! I can't begin to imagine how emotionally challenging and exhausting that must be, how deeply I'd have to dig.

And it's not just a matter of emotional labor. I'm often amazed at the practical wisdom it must take to advise a person in their struggles, to have a good idea what you're talking about in such a wide variety of challenging situations. You have to be quite good at life!

I also have OCD, as well as generalized anxiety disorder and depression, so I know a lot about intrusive thoughts as well.

It pisses me off that the common perception of OCD is that it means that people are neat freaks when really that's just one small part of it and oftentimes just a stereotype. I mean sure, that is true for some, and I am generally a neat person and have particular places that I like certain things to be and a way I like to keep certain rooms in my house, but that's really only a very small part of it and not one that bothers me.

Like you, I have thoughts that drive me nuts, different from the one in particular that you described, but that only makes sense since no two people would ever experience any kind of mental issue in the exact same way.

I can't say that the pandemic has made mine worse though as like some others in this thread I am also a complete introvert and hermit, so honestly I haven't found it that difficult being by myself as i always have spent a lot of time alone. Really it just forces me to be a more extreme version of how I already was, but I still have been effected by the whole thing in my own way of course.

I generally hide my issues from others and only tell them to very close friends and family unless others are forthcoming with theirs or my name is anonymous, both of which are true here lol.

I like that mental health issues are becoming more acceptable as a thing people can be more open about in society, but i still don't trust your average person not to be a dick when they confront someone different than themselves. Some people will get it, some people won't, and others may not get it at first but later come to understand.

I can definitely say that listening to metal helps me with my intrusive thoughts, that's for sure.

I'm no expert on this shit, nor do I suffer from any serious mental illness (that I'm aware of), but like anyone, I have my down moments/self defeatist streaks and have a few methods of working through them which you may find helpful. Given my upbringing and whatnot I've been blessed (or cursed?) with a boomer mindset in a lot of ways, so I hope this stuff doesn't come off as naively simplistic or trite. Anyway, here goes:

1. Journal - for negative and repetitive thoughts, venting can certainly help but a lot of people don't have others who will sit down and seriously listen to them, unfortunately. That's where journaling comes in. Get out all those negative thoughts, and then (even if it seems contrary to everything in your life/head), write positive stuff. Things you're thankful for, things you hope to achieve, and reflect on what you did that day and what you'll do to make tomorrow better. In my experience, consistent efforts at this help quite a bit in cultivating a good mentality/outlook, especially in our present times.

2. Get outside - Yes, I know this is kind of a meme response, but I don't meme (haha) it like that. Going on walks with or without metal can get you out of your head as you take in the scenery and what is hopefully some fresh air.

3. Exercise - Another memed to hell response, but I mean this one seriously too. Even a walk can do wonders. Don't underestimate the power of your mind to kick itself back into gear at least temporarily after some exercise. Cause, you know... endorphins and shit.

4. Personify - Give mental form to the various currents inside your mind. Thoughts come with many emotions attached to them, but oftentimes I've found thoughts fundamentally stem from a place of negativity or positivity. Personify those poles, and then whenever you find negativity trying to feed you self defeatist/nihilistic streams of thought, beat that piece of shit back. Seriously, it sounds dumb but if you need to mentally yell at it to shut the fuck up, do it. The negative voice is like a dog that hasn't been trained. If you've failed to train it, it runs around the house making a mess and eating all your food. But it's your dog and more importantly, your house. It may have grown so big and mean via neglect that it seems untamable, but with time you will be able to control it.

5. Eat healthy - Pretty self explanatory.

6. Read - I'm a big proponent of philosophy and its ability to help us in our lives. Tech and norms have changed, but the basic elements of the psyche and insanity of life certainly haven't. It's obviously not going to cure whatever ailment you suffer from, but it can help you keep a leveler head on the day to day.

7. Socialize - In real life. With real people. I know that not everyone can, and these times don't make it any easier, but make a point of trying to do this as soon as you have a chance. Online interaction is cool and all, but face to face interaction helps a TON.

Like I said, I'm some moron from the internet letting you know what's worked for me, so if this all amounted to useless drivel, so be it.

These occurred to me while I was out:

8. Follow through - In building up a positive worldview and self belief, following through on your goals is a must. Pretty obvious, sure, most of us still struggle with it. Start small and work your way up.

9. Reflect - look back on your interactions with people (especially if socializing is not your strong suit or the interaction left you feeling bad for whatever reason). I think I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread, but certain verbal and non verbal habits can signal to the outside world low self esteem. Sadly, these cues can leave you stuck in a negative feedback loop. Analyze your habits and change them if need be.

Ok, enough pseudo guru bullshit from me for now.

I agree with everything in the post above me. #1-3 and #5 have been the biggest changes in my life. It also helped me get off an SSRI and go from over 300 lbs to 165. I literally shed half of my body and a lot of my negativity.

Part of what is so difficult about 2020 is that for many people it is impossible, (and in many cases, outright illegal,) to socialize, in real life, with real people. "Were all in this together," they say, over and over- but when your only interaction with other people is through a phone screen or computer screen, or six feet apart wearing face coverings... we are not in this together. Rather, it is more like five billion people apart on five billion desert islands. I mean, they are saying now that people should't even get together with their families for the holidays- how fucking grim is that? During the darkest time of the darkest year in recent history, that is the one thing people most desperately WANT to do right now.

I have been doing most of everything else in "The Sign of Metal'"S post, though. Although, it being November, and it's cold and dark out all the time, exercise and getting outside are near impossible- gyms are closed, and it's always too dark, snowy and cold out for most outdoor activities. I am a big believer in being outdoors and in nature, however. Also, Keeping busy with various art and writing projects has helped with the isolation, somewhat.

I'm very fortunate to still have a (well-paying) job that survived the COVID wave, and to be in a country that took it seriously and has little amount of cases. It's still been a really tough year for a lot of people, including people I personally know, so I'm really hoping 2021 is a lot better for everyone.

The stuff in my post is a "best case scenario" list for sure. These coming months of winter are going to be brutal, and not seeing family is for the holidays of all fucking seasons is despair inducing. That said, now's a perfect time to get used to isolation and make a friend with yourself. Oh, and, if you ever wanted to jump on the one-man-black-metal-project train, now's the time.

The "getting used to isolation and making a friend with yourself" comment is true, and metal actually plays a big part for me.

Like I've said before in the "how do you listen to metal thread", I workout when listening to metal and lift weights and go for long walks with my headphones on, so I just kind of channel that inner badass, even when it's cold outside.

I just bundle up and go out and walk even in the dark with headphones on listening to bleak death and black metal and just walk and lift weights with a scowl on my face LOL.

If the music is grim and frosty like black metal or especially Finnish melo-death bands like Insomnium or Wolfheart who revel in the "I'm completely alone and desolate in this world" kind of feeling then all the better, and I embody that character of desolation becoming a "grim solitary warrior" as I lift weights and walk around in the dark and cold until I'm exhausted from all the exercise. Then I'm usually feeling a lot better.

If you can't beat it, join it.

I know this feeling well. If you get a chance this winter, go on a walk in the snow and listen to something like "Land of Snow and Sorrow" or that one Summoning piece "Land of the Dead." You'll feel like a metal winter ghost wandering the wilderness. It's super cool.

I'll try to remember that.

For me, Tales From the Thousand Lakes has always been my number one winter album.

Just something about it has always made me think of snow and winter.

What are people's warning signs for when their mental health is spiralling? Interested to know, really, as it can vary.

Mine are as follows:

1) lessening of engagement. I don't normally withdraw totally, but I just don't want to contribute to discussions etc. I just can't be bothered to.

2) buying lots of junk food all the time (it depends on what your crutch is, really. For some it's intoxicants of one nature or another, but for me it's takeaways and fast food).

3) not bothering to go out anywhere

4) loss of interest in music - I know that some people find catharsis in listening to music at low points, but with a very few exceptions this just doesn't seem to be how I function. I just don't bother listening to music full stop when low.

5) loss of libido - and I mean an almost total lack of interest in this area. This is one I recently noticed. I've got a pretty strong drive, but if I'm feeling down then anything involving it is just the last thing I want to do.

When I'm headed for a manic episode, mine are extreme restlessness (sometimes to the point of walking 25-30km a day without tiring at all), weird communication problems (something as simple as texting without punctuation or sending one word answers) and absolutely no appetite, or appetite, but with no drive to prepare food or cleanup afterwords. Which means I will sometimes go days with just eating granola bars, a handful of almonds here and there, or slices of toast.

These are common effects of depression. Are you starting to spiral?

Number 5 for me is different to you. I have a low libido but this totally disappears. Like, if libido could be at -1, that's where I would be.

I think I may be. I actually get worried/anxious more than depressed, but I've been having problems with the latter. My depressive moods are not endogenous however. Getting out and fishing usually helps but winter means that conditions aren't ideal for catching much when I do go, which is a bit of a drag. Obviously this year it's been difficult to meet people and socialise (to take me out of my own head), but my social life was already pretty sparse anyway beforehand.

Ugh yeah, we ain't got ideal fishing weather at the moment, for sure.

"Thankfully" I don't need to look for any subtle signs, I have a single sign that's so glaringly obvious even half the internet knows about it.

What's pissing me off about this year is that every previous mental health crisis in my life has been almost entirely by my own doing. Not on purpose of course because who wants to have a mental health crisis, but by negligence. This year however, being screwed over by my employer wasn't anything I had any hand in, being driven into instant bankruptcy by the insane debt collection agency system as a result wasn't any of my doing, the virus restrictions on everything of course, completely out of my control, the baseball sized tumour that was growing on my dog (was removed last month finally and is healing well), came out of nowhere. It's really, really fucking frustrating because it's one thing to feel like "I got myself into this mess, I can get myself out of it", it's another to actually be doing completely fine like I was and then someone completely fucks you over and pushes you off the edge. Still even if I didn't get myself into this mess only I can get myself out of it, really nice. Not expecting any help from a population that believes Bill Gates is going to inject them with microchips to control their brains anyway. I actually think he already did and they bluescreened.

Microchips? What are you stuck in 2010?

We live in the age of nanotech in 2020. Bill Gates is putting nanochips in the covid vaccines and then the satan worshiping jewish pedophiles will conquer the world!

I'm from a country where the leader referred to the internet as "terra incognita", I can be glad I have electricity and running water.

Fair enough.

Let me use my handheld tracking device to complain about being injected with tracking devices.

Right now I'm getting to the point where I am disgusted by my mother. The resentment has been building in me for probably at least a year and I know that very little I do will get her to stop being the sad sack that she currently is. It's at the point where I avoid talking to her because it feels pointless and it usually just ends up frustrating me. I mean, it's not like she listens to anything I have to say anyway. She's not a bad person but good god she's just in this permanent rut that she refuses to work on getting herself out of. A depressed alcoholic (among other things) who refuses to do anything to better herself and uses every conversation possible to try to make it about her and whatever unresolved issues she has. Constantly says she's going to do X, Y, Z, and then immediately finds excuses roadblock herself. I understand people go through rough patches - everyone does - but I would like to at least see some honest attempt at making her own situation better, even if its slowly. I honestly don't even know how my father stands her right now. Just a pit of negativity.