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Ill-Starred Son
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:45 pm 
 

So I know I could google it but I think I'd get a better answer here.

I'm getting more interested in learning about more electronic music genres but there seems to be just so many.

I'm interested most of all in dark, heavy and evil music from these genres, but I'm also open to just catchy shit.

Here's the one's I know:

1) Industrial (I'm shaky on the industrial which ISN'T also metal, I've heard of bands like Throbbing Gristle, Legendary Pink Dots, Nocturnal Emissions, Chrome, Portion Control, Cabaret Voltaire etc as those that started the genre
2) Industrial Metal (I guess maybe Ministry is industrial metal but say, Throbbing Gristle and Legendary Pink Dots aren't?)
3) Power Electronics
4) Ambient
5) Dark Ambient (I really like some of these bands like Psyclon Nine and X-Fusion
6) Jungle
7) Drum and Bass
8) Dub-Step
9) Dub (are Dub and Dub-Step different?
10) Techno
11) Mashup
12) Electronica
13) Electro (I'm shaky on the differences
14) Break-Core
15) Power Noise
16) House
17) Neu Deutsche Harte (I have NO clue what this is, it just came up on a search)
18) Breakbeat
19) Industrial Dance
20) Future Pop (no clue what this is either)
21) Hi-NRG (no clue what this is
23) Eurodance
24) Freestyle
25) Industrial Hip Hop
26) 8 Bit (this is basically like video game music right? I have some like "I Shot the Duck Hunt Dog" on my Ipod
27) Hardcore
28) Trance
29) Trip Hop
30) UK garage (no clue here either)
31) Grebo (no clue what this is)
32) IDM
33) Japanoise
24) Noise
25) Noisecore (is this different from Noise?)
26) New Beat
27) Witch House (had never heard of this before a search
28) Death Industrial (what is this and is it related to metal?)
29) Martial Industrial
30) Neofolk
31) Electric Body music



I mean I don't now the next thing about almost ANY of these genres other than Industria and Industrial Metal.

Are there any I'm missing and how different are all these genres?

I mean I know that's a loaded question, cause many are VERY different, but I'm kind of intimidated in a way by just how many there are and wouldn't have ever known there were this many till I looked it up.

I've heard some Electro, Electronica, Dub and Jungle before and liked them, but it's just crazy how many styles count as "electronic music".

I guess when I ask "how different are they all" I'm more asking for if EVERY one of these is so distinct it NEEDS its own category and how one can really even begin to get into discovering these styles when there are so many different genres.

I have never liked the mindless techno I've heard, heard a little Dubstep and wasn't sure if I really liked it, but it's crazy how much shit there is out there.

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rexxz
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:34 pm 
 

You could... listen to them? And figure out the differences on your own? Not to sound like a jerk but you just gave a massive list and asked everyone to give you a run down on all of them. It's a huge chore and no one wants to do that. It would be different if you were more specific and asked about one or two genres.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:03 pm 
 

This is an interesting interactive map of electronic music styles.

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:23 pm 
 

I noticed that progressive electronic wasn't on the list, but here's a very helpful page for that. Scroll down for a "top albums" section based on hundreds of ratings. And there's of course all the band-specific pages to move on to. Both the genre page and band pages have quite informative biographies.

http://progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=33

I'm not so knowledgeable about it myself though, since I think I've only checked out Tangerine Dream and Brian Eno.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:21 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
This is an interesting interactive map of electronic music styles.

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/


Thanks that's actually really cool so I'm gonna give that a look.

Someone tried to do a map of metal years back, not nearly so effective and pretty incomplete, but kind of a nice attempt at least.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 328
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:23 am 
 

rexxz wrote:
You could... listen to them? And figure out the differences on your own? Not to sound like a jerk but you just gave a massive list and asked everyone to give you a run down on all of them. It's a huge chore and no one wants to do that. It would be different if you were more specific and asked about one or two genres.


Yeah sorry, I didn't exactly have a clear aim, I was kind of just trying to give a stab at the topic and the ended up making a long list in the process of looking shit up. I wasn't exactly shooting for a clear aim, just kind of trying to learn more about these genres but Zodijackly's map is helpful.

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:14 am 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Zodijackyl wrote:
This is an interesting interactive map of electronic music styles.

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/


Thanks that's actually really cool so I'm gonna give that a look.

Someone tried to do a map of metal years back, not nearly so effective and pretty incomplete, but kind of a nice attempt at least.

Yeah it's a pretty good find. Well done, Zodi!

And I vaguely remember a similar thing for metal sub-genres many years ago as well but can't remember how I found it.
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iAm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:47 am 
 

Spoiler: show
Image


There's this. Each of those styles can be researched more in depth on http://www.rateyourmusic.com, which is a great source combined with last.fm for finding Electronic artists. Electronic music is huge, even that giant .jpg only begins to cover it.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:50 am 
 

I don't see a giant .jpg, just a tiny one.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:52 am 
 

I'm hijacking the thread a little in the search of something I heard several years ago. There is not much to go on but if I would guess it was a mix of jungle and ragga with aggressive male vocals (with a deep voice). Most definitely reggae inspired but with a heavy electronic bend in regards to the beat. And the song is at least 5 years old by this point.

Anyone got any ideas as to what this can be?

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iAm
Wastelander

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:40 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
I don't see a giant .jpg, just a tiny one.

It looks big too me *shrug*
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Festivus
Metalhead

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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:41 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
I don't see a giant .jpg, just a tiny one.

x2
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iAm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:48 pm 
 

Does it really look tiny? I don't know how to fix that. It looks huge to me. Here's the url anyways.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... _Guide.jpg
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Festivus
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:48 pm 
 

Still tiny to me.
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iAm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:53 pm 
 

I don't know what to say then :???:
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Dembo
Dumbo

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:55 pm 
 

http://i.imgur.com/dFnQDIz.jpg

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Festivus
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:37 pm 
 

Now it's big. Thanks.
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:30 am 
 

Re "its crazy how many styles count as electronic music". Consider this - do you say to yourself "its crazy how many styles count as guitar music"?

Most of that list has little in common other than using synthesizers, no more than (say) Oasis, Emperor and James Brown have for using electric guitars.

Additionally, much of that list is symptomatic of the kind of borderline autistic desire to create micro genres that Metal suffers from. Much of it is used interchangably - Jungle vs Drum n Bass - or at least the differences between them are so small and subtle as to be irrelevent unless you are really deeply invested (much the same way as the speed metal vs thrash thing).

Perhaps the best way to look at it is to make a taxonimical division into dance music and noise. They dont have a lot in common beyond some of the equipment they use.

Within that you have variations based on (in dance) BPM count, tone, aesthetics etc. On the other side based on does it have vocals, are the synth noises harsh/high pitched or low and drony, that sort of thing.

Its also about ancestry. If I had to try and nail it down I would offer that:

Some derives from Disco and just gradually added more electronic elements. But its still music to dance to in nightclubs.

Some derives from 80s synthpop (pet shop boys, human league etc). Somewhat dark songs with a dancable beat.

Some derives from experimental music and is more about tones/atmospheres.

You have some really strange red herrings in that list though:

Dub is much more closely related to Reggae than it is to either dance or experimental music. Essentially instrumental versions of reggae tracks with lots of spacey effects instead of vocals. Only peripherally related to Dubstep.

Grebo was a marketing term for northern English rock bands with some additional electronic elements. Not in use since 1988 or so.

Nue Deutsch Harte is another one of those bullshit terms music journalists make up, in this case to describe Rammstein. Never heard it used outside Germany.

EBM/Aggrotech/Future-pop and probably a few others in the list are best thought of as dance music for Goth clubs.

Death Industrial has nothing to do with Metal. It's perhaps best thought of as a harsher offshoot of Dark Ambient.

Power Electronics is (with tongue firmly in cheek) a wall of feedback with men in ski masks screaming about sexual violence. Notoriously confrontational and extreme.
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:59 am 
 

IDM - "intelligent dance music". Make of that what you will as far as how instrumental music can be more or less intelligent than others. Closely associated with Warp records and acts like Aurechere and Boards of Canada. Largely interchangable with Electronica, which was a term thrown around in the 90s to describe similar acts
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:06 am 
 

Neofolk is barely relevent to this discussion except that some acts incorporate a few samples. Contextually dense accoustic folk music descended from 70s acid folk music.

Martial Industrial is, as the name suggests, bombastic music made out of orchestral samples, snippets of Ww2 news broadcasts, kettledrums and other military style precussion.

Both have heavy duty far-right undertones on occasion
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:13 am 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
Power Electronics is (with tongue firmly in cheek) a wall of feedback with men in ski masks screaming about sexual violence. Notoriously confrontational and extreme.

Not just a wall of feedback (well, some of the early UK bands are), but when someone once asked me about what the difference between noise and power electronics is, my number one defining factor for power electronics was that it usually is a lot more rhythmic than "regular" noise, because it usually involves part of the noise being looped.

An example, Genocide Organ - Klaus Barbie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdAhNRp6dO0
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:34 pm 
 

That techno.org guide to electronic music is useful in the sense that it's helpful, and it's been a popular go-to guide for many many years, but it is not gospel, and it gets a few things wrong. The placement of dark ambient in the downtempo section, for example, leaves one with the impression that dark ambient is a direct descendant of ethereal and stuff like Dead Can Dance. This is almost totally wrong; the influence of those types of artists on dark ambient came later, after it had already existed for some years. Dark ambient is in fact a direct descendant of early industrial music typified by artists like Throbbing Gristle and Coil. Coil in particular could be said to have written the first dark ambient record (How to Destroy Angels). Back when Coil and Lustmord were first putting out music like this the preferred terms for it was actually "ambient industrial" or "industrial ambient." They were essentially using the same writing & recording techniques as industrial, but used it to make quiet music.

Eventually, after dark ambient/ambient industrial had existed for some time, you started seeing artists make dark-sounding ambient music purely with synthesizers rather than the found sound/analog manipulation essential to industrial. That's where the influence from what Ishkur calls ethereal came in. But as I said, that was later.


The author(s?) is also highly opinionated, as should be obvious.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:53 pm 
 

As a side note, the term "industrial metal" should have never existed. It implies something which is inherently impossible. Metal is comprised of riffs which follow predictable, repeatable patterns; and which require a certain degree of planning, composition, and melody (even if harsh). Industrial is composed of found sounds, accidental sounds, and straight up noise manipulated in a recording studio; where "real" instruments are actually used, they are used in an intentionally non-musical manner, such as (for example) "playing" drums offbeat or using a guitar solely to create feedback for an entire song. If this sounds like noise, that's because it is. Throbbing Gristle in their early days were very specific in stating that the sounds they made were not music, they were anti-music. Industrial started off as soundtracks for stage performances, not as a band people wanted to listen to.

There really isn't any way of reconciling these two genres. I understand it's about 35 years too late to rename "industrial metal" something more sensible, but personally I don't use the term. It's as nonsensical as talking about atonal music in the key of B minor.
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Sepulchrave
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:29 pm 
 

^...You have listened to Godflesh, though, right? There's an awful lot of highly non-musical elements in it like feedback, etc. on Streetcleaner, as far as I can remember. Plus, I'm pretty sure most people either talk about that later, more structured style of industrial that bands like Skinny Puppy, Front 242, or Die Krupps played + metal riffs, or simply a Godflesh-inspired style when they mean industrial metal, not a Throbbing Gristle/Nurse With Wound/Premature Ejaculation/etc.-inspired band with metal riffs.
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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:34 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
Power Electronics is (with tongue firmly in cheek) a wall of feedback with men in ski masks screaming about sexual violence. Notoriously confrontational and extreme.

Not just a wall of feedback (well, some of the early UK bands are), but when someone once asked me about what the difference between noise and power electronics is, my number one defining factor for power electronics was that it usually is a lot more rhythmic than "regular" noise, because it usually involves part of the noise being looped.

An example, Genocide Organ - Klaus Barbie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdAhNRp6dO0


I was thinking more in terms of very early PE records along the lines of Whitehouse and Sutcliffe Jugend made entirely with those old Wasp synths before looping technology was affordable/common. I would characterise them the opposite way in fact - all those Ant-Zen label releases characterising themselves as "rhythmic noise" are quite distinct in sound from say Freak Animal stuff...aside from not having a heavy emphasis on lyricsl/graphic content.

If you are interested in this stuff I highly reccomend picking up a copy of the book my friend recently edited: "fight your own war - power electronics and noise culture"
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The Red Snifit
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:33 am 
 

My really unhelpful guide to the ones I know:

Spoiler: show
Quote:
1) Industrial


Depending on the context:

- A specific brand of experimental music revolving around Industrial Records. Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire.
- An umbrella genre containing a bunch of largely electronic subgenres (like EBM) whose bands' influences can ultimately be traced to the above definition. Some people refer to this as "post-industrial," most don't.

Quote:
2) Industrial Metal


Guitar-driven industrial. Nine Inch Nails, Fear Factory, and White Zombie are obvious ones.

Quote:
6) Jungle
7) Drum and Bass


Same thing really, DnB was called jungle before it was called DnB. If you want to differentiate, jungle has political themes and DnB has higher production values.

Quote:
10) Techno


This
Quote:
17) Neu Deutsche Harte (I have NO clue what this is, it just came up on a search)


Rammstein and bands that sound like Rammstein.

Quote:
Industrial Dance
EBM


Same thing: Dance-oriented industrial. Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, KMFDM, Skinny Puppy, and Frontline Assembly. Some people divide this further with "electro-industrial" to describe bands with a more "layered" sound (like Skinny Puppy) with EBM being more minimalist (like Nitzer Ebb).

Quote:
20) Future Pop (no clue what this is either)


Synthpop with elements of industrial dance. VNV Nation, Covenant

Quote:
28) Trance


This

[url=31) Electric Body music[/quote]Industrial dance but with a less "layered" sound. Front 242.


Earthcubed wrote:
As a side note, the term "industrial metal" should have never existed. It implies something which is inherently impossible. Metal is comprised of riffs which follow predictable, repeatable patterns; and which require a certain degree of planning, composition, and melody (even if harsh). Industrial is composed of found sounds, accidental sounds, and straight up noise manipulated in a recording studio; where "real" instruments are actually used, they are used in an intentionally non-musical manner, such as (for example) "playing" drums offbeat or using a guitar solely to create feedback for an entire song. If this sounds like noise, that's because it is. Throbbing Gristle in their early days were very specific in stating that the sounds they made were not music, they were anti-music. Industrial started off as soundtracks for stage performances, not as a band people wanted to listen to.

There really isn't any way of reconciling these two genres. I understand it's about 35 years too late to rename "industrial metal" something more sensible, but personally I don't use the term. It's as nonsensical as talking about atonal music in the key of B minor.


This is accurate for the Throbbing Gristle variety, but Suicide (though maybe they're more proto-industrial), [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-IixtxKETU]Cabaret Voltaire[/url], and Einstürzende Neubauten, while still heavily influenced by da da, were still fairly structured. I guess you could argue that TG is the only "true" industrial band, but I don't think many people subscribe to that definition.

At any rate, Godflesh had a strong emphasis on non-musical elements, as did Ministry's The Land of Rape and Honey, and KMFDM was originally a straight-up, Throbbing Gristle-style performance art group. It's pretty easy to see where the name came from.
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Odovacar
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
26) 8 Bit (this is basically like video game music right? I have some like "I Shot the Duck Hunt Dog" on my Ipod



This is better known as chiptune and it is usually meant to emulate old video game sounds (Commodore 64, NES, Game Boy, etc.) and typically music is composed on the actual hardware.

I'd check out Danimal Cannon, Chipzel, Big Giant Circles, Jake Kaufman, Disasterpeace, Prof.Sakamoto, Joshua Morse, etc.

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Yahko
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:32 pm 
 

I had been listening to a lot of electronic music since 2008. Usually listening to the Essential Mix on BBC Radio 1. I still wont be able to tell you how house and techno are different, technically, from one another. All I can say is that one was born in Chicago the other in Detroit. Each genre has its own beat, we might say. 4/4 or 4/5, etc. A alot of them have to do with the RPM. 128 for house, 160 for techno, 96 for dubstep, UK Garage 140. I might be wrong but that's what I somewhat remember from reading some where. UK/US Garage has a main element which is a syncopation. So everything is built on that.

For my personal taste I can say that I like anything funky, groovy, mashup, french, house. Anything that is consistent and melodic. Small club sound. Something you will dance too in a 200 capacity place rather than a 1000 one.
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thefacilitator
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:26 am 
 

Power Electronics is preferred! - Check out Blue Sabbath Black Cheer local to my area (Seattle, WA, U.S.) = https://bluesabbathblackcheer.bandcamp.com/
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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:00 pm 
 

Odovacar wrote:
chiptune


there's also this amazing 8bit cover version of de mysteriis dom. sathanas. check it out if you're into either (chiptune or the album)

edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwV3_LrbQQ
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Odovacar
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:25 pm 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
Odovacar wrote:
chiptune


there's also this amazing 8bit cover version of de mysteriis dom. sathanas. check it out if you're into either (chiptune or the album)

edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwV3_LrbQQ


There's a large amount of metal (and not metal) chiptune covers out there. I like the idea of it but I don't really like the execution since most of them are just pulling a MIDI file and swapping out sounds for chip sounds. It doesn't play to the strengths and weaknesses of chiptunes.

Compare this Raining Blood cover which was basically composed by hand to [urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRzVr5xSBBU]this one[/url] which just had the MIDI sounds swapped out.

The one that was composed sounds like it could have been in an actual NES game while the other one doesn't, it doesn't capture the spirit of the song nor does it take advantage of what chiptunes can do.

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Belastbar
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:22 pm 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
Its also about ancestry. If I had to try and nail it down I would offer that:

Some derives from Disco and just gradually added more electronic elements. But its still music to dance to in nightclubs.

Some derives from 80s synthpop (pet shop boys, human league etc). Somewhat dark songs with a dancable beat.

Some derives from experimental music and is more about tones/atmospheres.


This is in general a really useful concept. I will add some things to it.

One thing that sets different genres of electronic music apart is wether they are more influenced by the afro-american music tradition ("black music", Blues, Jazz, Funk, Soul, Reggae, or if you go to a little bit younger music, Hip Hop) or the European music tradition ("white music", classical European music, also stuff like Rock, Metal or Country which has its root in Blues music etc., but has stripped most of the "black" aspects away).

"Afro-american music tradition" mostly means that the music's rythm is focused on "grooving", and the offbeat/even times of the metrum are stressed(one AND two AND) or (one TWO three FOUR). Also, the relationship the lead instruments/vocals have with the metrum is perhaps a bit more playful, the metrum is not so strict and the solo voice can lag a little bit behind (this is called "laid back").

An example would be drum'n'base/jungle, which is very much influenced by funk. Drum'n'base/jungle (at least the more "classical" stuff) mostly consists of playing this or similar funk drum breaks at a faster tempo and adding some synths to it. Just check out a random jungle mix like this, it has beats like the amen break all over.

Another example would be dubstep (I know that there is dubstep which is not about base wobble madness, but it doesn't change the point), which is rooted in Reggae. Reggae is the most extremest "black music" in the sense that it has the strongest focus on the offbeat. Check out a song like Bufallo Soldier by Bob Marley and the Wailers, it has a guitar playing the chords on the "ands" if you count it in 2/4 ("one AND two AND"). Even more extreme is I shot the sheriff, which does not even have a basedrum on the one. Now compare this for example to First of the Year (Equinox) by Skrillex, which has the same kind of guitar on the "ands". He also at least sometimes drops the base drum on the one in the crazy bass breaks. Skrillex has other dubstep songs which are are bit less "black music" influenced, like Bangarang, which shows that "black music" influenced and "white music" influenced is always a gradual thing and not one or the other. And there is quite a lot modern dubstep music that drops the reggae influence almost completely.

Now on the other hand, there is the electronic music that is more rooted in the "European music tradition". That mostly means that you have a very rigid metrum that is stressed on the 1, and everyone has to adhere to it, there are not many rythmic surprises or playfully being a bit of the metrum.

For example, check out Autobahn, a very classical electronic music group. For a long time the song just has a base synth on the one and a beat and some ambienty synths in the background, the beat is not pushing you ahead in the next bar, it's more flowing and hypnotic. Also check out The Robots, which already hints a little bit of techno. And you should see that Kraftwerk are related to concept art and performance art, with the high-tech/modern times theme in their songs and their robot-like appearance. The concept/performance stuff was a much bigger thing in Industrial music later.

Other things that I would say are more in the European music tradition is stuff like gothic-related electronic music and synth pop like Depeche Mode. It's really hard though to find obvious examples, as everyone is at least influenced by rock music, which gives you at least a bit black music influence. Especially if you are talking about classic rock and not Nickelback.

Then you get things like Detroit Techno, which is like funk but played in a way that's extremely Kraftwerk-influenced. It just sounds so cold, even though you could imagine everything played by a funk band and grooving extremely. I googled this mix, I think you will get the idea.

What you probably also could take away from this post is that Soul and Funk play a really big role in the history of pop music, which gets often overlooked, especially if your musical background is metal or rock.

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