Looking at his FM, you're probably right on this. Either way, he didn't mean to sound like a dick (even though he did :/), so I'd rather just drop it.

Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
The pop-funk masterpiece with an amazing album title and lyrical themes. Reality check. This one really put them on the map and made them the almighty funky space adventurers from above that they are.

Pink Floyd - Piper At the Gates of Dawn (syd barrett is a god) and to say what the rest of Floyd with the addition of Gilmour did on Saucerful of Secrets is nothing short of a masterpiece as well, both 100%.

Someone else mentioned this earlier, Stevie Wonder - Songs In the Key of Life. Provocative and inspiring lyrics, groovy, funky, passionate, and dabbling in a mixture of sounds (like using unique bleeps bloops and blops for percussion) and an amazing sense of style using R&B, funk, and pop in only a way this man could.

of Montreal - Coquelicot Asleep in the Poppies: A Variety of Whimsical Verse
Possibly my favorite album of the past ten years. The way Kevin Barnes arranged the songs to flow into eachother so seamlessly and create the perfect album dynamic experience from beginning-middle-to end. Fun and humorous imagery and also creating an imaginary (real) world of true psychadelic playful, symbolic, and ultimately wonderous record. 23 tracks that end and are summed up with one of my favorite instrumentals and piano recordings ever the magnifiscent and infinite: The Hopeless Opus.

Olivia Tremor Control - Black Foliage
Just the name alone brings you to a place buried within deep within yourself that make you who you are and also give you the ability to decide on everything and make it what it is. This is truly the ultimate Psychadelic Experience. These guys are the perfect band primarily focused on noise with a pop approach. Using tapes and using 4 and 8 tracks to record with the mastermind Robert Schneider handling recording duties. The perfect production with the combination of Hi-Fi and Lo-Fi recording. This one takes you on an adventure to the deepest abyss and unfolds like no other. Prepare to come down with them. Makes you think they made headphones just for this album ;}


Just a few that came to mind but there are a few more. If anyone checks out one of these, make it Black Foliage. You WILL thank me later.

Led Zeppelin II - The most pioneering hard rock album ever.

Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here. I just love the sort of melancholy but very mellow feel the whole album has.

Pink Floyd - Animals. Again, pretty unique mood. Mostly rant filled, but awesome songs.

KMFDM - What Do You Know Deutschland? The most perfect blend of dance beats and guitars.

Juno Reactor - Beyond the Infinite. You'll die if you try to dance to this from start to finish.

Massive Attack - Mezzanine. Imagine yourself in a drug fuelled haze (not a stimulant), smoke and beautiful people all around you. And this album plays in the background.

Pretty sure there are a few I'm leaving out, but those albums are awesome. Check them out if the music is to your taste.

Ahhhh! I completely forgot this one. I would give this a 100% too, possibly the best hard rock album ever. Not many hard rock albums can flow like this bad boy.

Double Post.

Brad Sucks - both first albums. This is kind of a living proof that I don't dislike music with positive vibes in it, I just hate the way everybody in the mainstream does it. This is a simple, vanilla Rock one-man project with a very honest feeling about it and the kind of positive vibes that can appeal to anyone who likes mainstream music, and yet he sounds completely removed from the mainstream scene. It's kind of like he is familiar with the genre, but he never heard how everybody else does it, so he just makes up his own ideas. Good rhythm, good diversity, and good example of effective minimalism.
Rammstein - Mutter, Reise Reise, and Rosenrot. Again, great use of minimalism, and Til's voice is really fantastic. The albums before these are good too, but kinda dry in comparison to when they started being more creative with the keyboards and moved to a more Rock sound.
scarling. - So Long Scarecrow. I heard them being described as Noise Pop, which is not a real genre as far as I can tell, but does describe their music well. Very dense and dissonant sounding guitars and hollow sounding acoustic parts contrasted by melodic female vocals.
Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals. Their most complex and multilayered album to date.

Yesd, maggot Brain is fantastic. I'm not sure if it's one of those 100% albums for me but I always get such a great feeling from playing it. Also, yes, they were a rock band back then; it seems that people easily forget that. Still need to get my hands on Cosmic Slop, but I actually enjoy just about all the FUnkadelic stuff.

Think I'll have to investigate this Black Foliage.

You seem to have misunderstood. I'm not singling out metal as being incapable of "genius". I said, more than once actually, that for me (remember, everyone has different standards) perfection cannot be achieved without ample variety. No album that comfortably sits in any genre (metal, punk, reggae, etc.) would be perfect to me. Maybe that's not the view that a "true" metalhead would hold, but I never professed to be one.

And for the record, I like metal just fine. In fact, it's one of my most listened to genres (even if my Last.fm page doesn't show it, which one of you was quick to point out). Some of you just seem unwilling to accept the fact that not every metalhead worships the genre on their hands and knees.

First off, subcultures of any kind are complete and utter garbage, existing only as a place for those unable to think for themselves to fall in line and become a mindless proponent of a single viewpoint. That you assume I would strive to be a part of one is somewhat offensive, at least relatively.

Second, are you suggesting that one must belong to a subculture in order to enjoy the music associated with it? Because that's what your statement implies.

Music = subculture brohemian rhapsody.

What the fuck are you even talking about? Since when does thinking for yourself prohibit belonging to a subculture? Since when do members of a subculture all share a single viewpoint? You sound like you're in high school.

Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die. Perhaps the greatest hip-hop album ever recorded. I would give it 100% without a moment's hesitation.

Nice, I'd probably give Snoop Dogg's Doggystyle and Dr. Dre's The Chronic a perfect score, or close to it. Biggie didn't fuck around, either, and I'd definitely consider Juicy one of the best, most recognizable, hip hop songs ever.

Maybe I should have been more specific and said "musical subcultures of any kind", but I still stand by what I said. If you really think you need to be a part of a subculture to enjoy a specific type of music, you're delusional. Anyone that dresses in all black every day, wears spike bracelets and chains, and does whatever else is required to be a metalhead is, quite honestly, a moron. If I sound like I'm in high school for being a proponent of individual thinking then you must not be from America, because a high school (or any public education building) in this country is the last place you'd hear spoken what I'm saying.

You sound like a moron because you're alternating between making (baseless) sweeping generalizations and desperately trying to show us all what a "free-thinker" you are. This may surprise you but people who try so hard not to be a part of "group-think" end up parroting each other more than any supposed subculture.

If this place alone isn't enough of an example of all the difference in opinions that can be held by people who are part of the same subculture I don't know what else would do it...

This isn't about me. I never said that I was a "free-thinker", just that those willing to succumb to stereotypes and trends aren't thinking for themselves.

And it's likely we're basing our arguments off of two different definitions for the same word, because the word subculture, for me, conjures up images of metalheads and mods and goths and what have you, whereas you seem to be implying that anyone who likes metal automatically belongs to the "metal subculture". I might very well be wrong in my definition, but that's the standpoint I was coming from. There's nothing wrong with a group of people liking the same music, but it's honestly frightening when they feel the need to act, dress, talk, and think exactly like one another.

I'll write this off as a misunderstanding on my part, simply because I don't feel the need to argue with people who are already so concrete in their views.

It wasn't that particular part I was referring too; I agree that it's silly to say you MUST be a part of a subculture to enjoy a specific type of music. However, you go way too far by saying that anyone who is a part of a subculture is stupid.


Sure, it's dumb to do things like that purely to fit in. But what's wrong with someone liking the metalhead image, and deciding to adopt it? Individual thinking is great, but what if that individual thinking leads to many of the same general beliefs/ideals that a certain subculture espouses? Should someone in that situation disown their own conclusions, simply because they happen to coincide with those of a certain subculture? Say someone likes and primarily listens to metal, thinks the "denim & leather" look is cool, agrees with the general bent of the lyrics, enjoys going to shows, and has a group of similar friends, what, exactly, is wrong with that?


You seem to think that the metalhead subculture is full of people who ruthlessly police each other's image, musical taste, and "scene cred," and only the most ardently orthodox metal fans are inducted into the subculture proper. That's fucking ridiculous. There is no such policing, nobody cares much whether or not anyone else dresses particularly metal, and there is no "orthodox" taste. There are relatively respected members of the site here who dislike Ozzy-era Black Sabbath for fuck's sake, which is about as "sacred" as any sort of metal gets. The groupthink, hive-mind cloning you describe doesn't happen outside of high school.


No, I was born and raised in America and I know from first-hand experience that high schools are full of kids who each claim they're unique and espouse a bull-headed, ignorant individuality, virulently rebelling against any sort of perceived "pigeonholing", all without any clear identity of their own. If you lack any sort of cultural affinity, fine; but don't pretend like it inherently makes you or anyone else superior.

To clear up what I think I didn't adequetely express, I found it strange that you would have enough involved interest in the metal genre to participate on this metal oriented forum and listen seriously to metal music when you believe that a metal album is incapable of reaching the heights of excellence without another genre propping it up. It seemed to indicate metal might not be "all that" for you and you could possibly benefit from looking elsewhere. I was only positting it as a possiblilty, I didn't mean to make any kind of declaration that you are untrue and need to leave the hall.

What was specifically odd was the notion that a metal album is inherently hollisitically inferior if every song can be categorized as belonging to the same genre. You didn't make that stipulation regarding albums from other genres of music (though you sidestepped the issue when pressed by saying that albums from other genres probobly would have suffeciently diverse songs to break the perfection threshold, which may or may not be true but the implication that metal albums are uniformly metal is demonstrably untrue considering all the ambient intros and outros out there as well as the large variety of other influences besides metal many metal bands introduce on their releases). To test this view, I would like to ask if you believe that a random album we all know and love, like, say "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" who's songs are uniformly metal (and thus prevented from forming a perfect album together) would be necesarilly improved by adding a non metal song anywhere in it (beginning, middle, end, whichever you like) from a random genre (since you didn't make any stipulations in this regard) like, say, gangsta rap. Is it perfect (or as close as possible) now?

I like what you've done here, but you've left him a very interesting loop-hole with your album choice. I mean with so MUCH prog rock influence he may actually be allowed to give Seventh Son a perfect score. I think he'd probably have to check with the other Free Thinkers first, though.

Yea and relatively heavy too. They were psychadelic hard rock but with a funk feel to it all. Simple and incredibly solid songs with amazing dynamics. Its no wonder they are the most sampled for hip hop and rap music.

I've heard hundreds of non-metal albums that are near perfect to my ears. I'll name a few of them:

Boards Of Canada - The Campfire Headphase
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire
Mission Of Burma - Vs.
The Velvet Underground and Nico
T. Rex - Electric Warrior
Coven - Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls
Gary Numan - The Pleasure Principal
The Vibrators - Pure Mania
Bastard Noise - Mutant
Halflings - Self Esteem

In fact, I did make that stipulation regarding albums from other genres and I addressed it quite specifically and explicitly. You must have sidestepped my comment.

That's pretty clever, I'll have to use that one at a party some time.

You addressed it by saying that an album from another genre would have enough songs from genres other than itself to be eligable for perfect. This doesn't imply that you meant that if the album didn't have such songs that it would be barred from perfection, so my point completely stands. You must have sidestepped my comment.

You accused me of saying that albums in non-metal genres are capable of being "perfect" whereas metal albums aren't. I stated quite clearly that I wouldn't consider an album that exists entirely within the realm of any single genre perfect, specifically mentioning punk and reggae as other arbitrary examples. And yet, somehow, you claim again that I'm avoiding your point. Forget sidestepping, you're sprinting around my comments now.

Thinking about it. That is a dumb criteria for perfection.

Ok, I missed that.

The next question is what prevents songs in the same genre being different enough from eachother to make them capable of forming a perfect whole? What in particular is the additional benefit confered to the song (in the context of being on an album composed mostly of songs of another genre) by being another genre as opposed to it being in the same genre as the other songs but overall sounding very different?

so a progressive experimental symphonic traditionnal old school blackened death metal band woul be his definition of perfection...

i think a band could create a perfect album within their genre. For me, Immortal's At the heart of winter is a perfect black metal album, it's not less perfect even if it doesn't include other elements within their genre

perfection is a concept totally arbitory too

He never said that an album with a lot of variety would automatically be perfect, only that an album lacking at least one song from a genre other than that of the other songs can't be perfect.

I also don't understand why it is necesary that the song be from another genre and why the songs having variety within a given genre can't sate his variety requirement, he'll have to fill that one in.

Yeah, I think we're getting way too deep into something that doesn't really matter here. I'll reiterate my original post or two in here by saying that there are plenty of albums I'd consider perfect metal albums or perfect pop albums (etc.) but to consider an album a perfect album, irrespective of genre, it would have to have more variety than just a single, specific genre.

That said, this is simply my own personal arbitrary and meaningless method of ranking albums in my own head. I do not for a moment suggest or expect any of you to subscribe to the exact same thought process as me, because it would be ridiculous to do so. We all have different ways of thinking about things, and if I should prefer some variety to my music then why should that be held against me or anyone else? It shouldn't.

This little argument seems to have arisen out of a simple misunderstanding where someone thought I was insulting metal. I wasn't. To me, there are more "perfect" albums that don't fall under the category of metal than there are that do. Believe it or not, there are far more albums out there that can't be considered metal than albums that can. That my preferences somewhat reflect that ratio shouldn't seem all that illogical. But if I'm not allowed to have that opinion, then I apologize and I'll try to adapt the exact same views as everyone else from now on so as not to offend anyone.

Having established this, the question on everyone's mind is what the reasoning behind this view? You have stated that it is your way of thinking, but have not explained either what led you to feel this way or what internal arguments you use to justify this kind of policy at least internally to yourself. Saying "It's just how I feel!" rings hollow. Everyone has feelings and we all have reasons for our feelings. An inability to articulate these causes doesn't let us off the hook for explaining them.



Nobody thought you were insulting metal, and nobody was upset. I've read the last couple pages and nobody has said anything that demonstrates any significant emotional investment in the conversation.



Playing the victim like this in regards to matters of taste and feelings of ostricization and oppresion by malevolent groupthink tend to raise the ire of some of the more trigger happy mods around here and makes you sound like petty child. Word to the wise. You should seriously consider why you feel so victimized when we are simply trying to get you to explain the reasoning behind what appear to be rather unusual and illogical views.

Can't it simply be that I enjoy albums with variety more than those that lack any? Music is perhaps the most abstract and challenging art form (or at least it can be) and trying to define exactly why we enjoy it as we do seems unnecessary to me.

I'm not trying to play the victim here, but it seems odd that everyone is so keen as to my own personal musical politics when they really don't affect anyone but myself. I can't tell you exactly why I like what I like, but sitting through hour long albums by the same musician/band that traverse all sorts of musical terrain excites me. Being varied doesn't make an album good, but when I find that rare album that incorporates all sorts of unrelated and unorthodox elements into a single, cohesive piece of music, the experience is simply incomparable.

No one expects you to nail it scientifically, but its fair to ask for something backing it up. The answers will ultimately be subjective, naturally, so nobody is going to (seriously) bust you for that.



You expressed a view unusual enough to get peoples' interest raised enough to press you for details on the matter.



I feel the same kind of excitement for bands that incorporate lots of things into coherent music in many instances as well, but it still begs the question why a band couldn't necesarilly do this with all the songs ultimately belonging to the same genre. A death metal song can have an accoustic break or electronic stuff in it and still be death metal. All the songs on a DM album could have such things with a variety of additional influences and they still be all death metal at their core.

I suppose that's understandable then. I'd like to apologize if I've offended anyone and hopefully no hard feelings have stemmed from this.

Also, since I never actually answered the thread, the only non-metal album I've listened to recently that I might consider a perfect album would be Swans' Soundtracks For The Blind. As raw and imperfect as it sounds, that's what gives it its perfection for me.

Well, isn't that sweet. Long-suffering and ever the humanist, Master Phillips extends the hand of friendship to Bennelong yet again, despite the latter's patently uncivilized behavior. One could just about up and cry. That is, if the strictures of one's social template did not expressly forbid such things, of course.

Do remember, though, that the reality of your situation is that you are surrounded by deepest, darkest jungles of self-conceptual prehistory on all sides. Though you have quite clearly (and quite wisely) taken pains to avoid the worst savagery via remaining largely in one of the region's few isolated pockets of semi-civilization, the fact of the matter is that you will occasionally run afoul of indigenous peoples, which is, of course, the lot of any and all with the courage (or simple misfortune) to dare to be different within any given milieu. If/when such eventualities come to pass, do try to remember that most of the natives mean you no particular harm. They are merely (and naturally) curious, and they express this curiosity primarily through displays of baser aggression, in unquestioned accordance with the traditional mandate of their simpler culture. In such situations, it is important to carefully consider one's words and actions, for not only your own safety and well-being may depend upon them, but also that of your trans-neolithic hosts, as well.

-Terrorfakt - Teethgrinder
One of the best Rhythmic Noise CD's I've heard.

-David Bowie - Aladdin Sane
My favourite Bowie CD.

-David Bowie - Scary Monsters
My 2nd Favourite Bowie CD.

-Schwarz Stein - New Vogue Children
-VNV Nation - Empires
-Greenhaus - You're Not Alone
-Portishead - Dummy
-Missy Elliott - Miss E....So Addictive

<b>Whitesnake - Slip of the Tongue and Slide it In</b>
Whitesnake is as far into glam as I get, but my god, these two albums are so good. Their Greatest Hits also has my favorite redo of Here I Go Again, as well as Sweet Lady Luck (one of my favorite Whitesnake songs).

<b>George Strait - For the Last Time: Live from the Astrodome</b>
Hands down, my absolute favorite live album, <u>ever</u>.

Cream - Wheels of Fire

Released in 1968 . Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce.
includes - White room (influenced by waiting at a railway station), Sitting on Top of the World (very bluesy).
Produced by Felix Pappalardi.

Classic imo, along with Disrali Gears;

I wouldn't give it 100%, but Gillan's "Glory Road" is an absolute masterpiece of hard rock / metal. Ian Gillan's voice is in perfect form on that album. The "disco" elements that frighten most people away from solo Ian Gillan Band/Gillan albums is mostly absent.

There isn't a bad song in the bunch. "Running, White Faced, City Boy", "Are You Sure", "Unchain Your Brain" and especially "No Easy Way" are all sweet, fast rocking tunes. "On the Rocks" is similar to any Purple proto-metal epic track. "If You Believe Me" is a bluesy workout for Gillan's superb voice and his sense of dark humor. "Your Mother Was Right" again showcases Gillan's dark humor.

I'd rank "Glory Road" equal (if not better) than Deep Purple's 80's output. Purple edges it out because of higher-quality musicianship of course, but if you consider yourself a fan of Ian Gillan's talents you must own this album.

Off the top of my head...

Daniel Johnston - Songs of Pain
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica