It's true, libertarians sucker people in with promises of legal weed, then as soon as you elect them all they do is cut medicare and replace PTAs with hedge fund managers.


You can be whatever you want, but I don't know why you bother making such a big show of taking on a particular political label while also declaring you believe in things which are contrary to its principles. *shrugs*

I hope I don't get too much flak from my fellow lefties, but I don't think calling Trump a white supremacist is particularly helpful. Dogwistle racist? Yeah. Islamophobe? HELL yeah. Tacitly supports actual white supremacists by blatantly refusing to condemn them directly? Inarguably. But he's still FAR from a Jared Taylor or a Richard Spencer, and also far from the worst humanity has to offer. If you genuinely believe the Trump administration is the absolute worst an American administration could ever be and that life for minorities and disadvantaged people couldn't possibly be more bleak than right now... well, you live in a utopia nearly on par with your AnCap opponents.

This is why I'm only slightly less angry at the people "who just don't care anymore" or the "Trump is literally a Nazi" folks than the actual people who elected this baffoon into office. Things can get so much worse for the people you purportedly care about, so rather than fighting for them by trying to build bridges with the politically apathetic and fence-sitters, you stick to calling our president a nazi and a fascist and everyone who voted for him a deplorable?
You are actively making life worse for people, and if you don't think so, go volunteer at a govt. subsidized homeless shelter (particularly in an area with a high concentration of minorities) and find out how much worse life was there under a Reagan presidency.

As far as I understand it, libertarians have the right basic idea, of everyone being able to do what they want, etc. But the political party as done by people like Gary Johnson is vapid and politics are more complicated than just that.

And if you want to say Trump isn't a literal white supremacist like Richard Spencer, sure. He's a racist and an embarrassment though. Things could definitely get worse and that's why comments like yesterday's are disgusting. And I am trying to help whenever I can and have been for a while.

If people who voted for him aren't supporting him anymore that's great. But I'm pretty much out of patience with anybody still trying to support him; it doesn't make sense any longer.

For the record let's not forget that Hillary's 'deplorables' comment was dead on the mark. One of the few times she just cut the shit and said something brutally true - a lot of people supporting him are just doing so out of racism and bigotry; that much was true.

Saying that half of a rival's voter base, comprised of tens of millions of thinking feeling people, is "deplorable" probably isn't going to win you a democratic election. I know several people who refused to vote in this election simply because of the rude, unprofessional demagoguery on both sides. Did Trump push her into it? Yes. Should that matter? Yes. But is politics fair? No. Trump is worse in every way, but for a woman who predicated her campaign on unity and acceptance and "going high when they go low" she didn't exactly do a good job of it.
Watch this famous interview with Jon Stewart, who does an excellent job of summarizing what I'm talking about at the 3:40 mark:

They are thinking, feeling people. But at some point you do have to call a spade a spade and admit that a lot of them were motivated by base-level, hateful reasoning in voting for Trump. It isn't to say they are irredeemable or worthless as humans, but to dance around the racism and the bigotry is as irresponsible as painting people in a one dimensional way. And it isn't the responsibility of the minorities and others they hate and demonize to coddle them and try to appease them. That is on them. We're all adults here.

Yeah, of course equating Trump with Hitler and the Nazis seems ridiculous right now, but what's really terrifying is that this is how fascism, and radical, nationalist, extreme right populist rhetoric starts, gaining power with a racist, misogynistic, imbecilic, narcisstic, deranged, manchild asshole excuse of a President with his orange small-handed, cult of personality, and terrible combover, that's free to say whatever the fuck he wants without any repercussions, stoking the fears of the middle class and the poor who've been systematically disenfranchised to vote against their own interests in a dying capitalist shitshow scam of a democracy, which has honestly really been replaced by a corporatist oligarchy for decades now. Seriously, would somebody just fucking assassinate this guy already? Take out Pence too if you can, and kill two birds with one stone. #travisbickle

NBC has a really interesting article today on a blue collar worker who voted for Trump but lost her job:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ca ... ob-n836261

I'm sorry but as an Indianapolis resident who does have friends and family in warehouse/factory work, I've stopped feeling bad for these people. Anyone who had heard his name before (which is to say a vast majority of this country) should've known that he's been actively screwing over American workers for longer than I've been alive. They chose to hear what they wanted to hear when the evidence kept coming up time and time again that it just wasn't going to happen. I'd say that these people got what they deserved but I'm a little more pissed that they dragged the rest of us down with them.

This country seriously needs to be split up. Let the group pander to their bases and see what can actually get done because this party loyalist bullshit isn't just holding us back anymore, it is seriously regressing.

Just a helpful, friendly reminder that the side of compassion and "reasoning" are actively calling for the assassination/suicide of the President, and the active, swift disenfranchisement of 62,000,000 people in the United States. The irony and the idiocy is fucking astounding.

Was I literally and seriously calling for it or making a clearly hyperbolic statement not really part of any real argument I was making? Try actually coming up with an argument of your own instead of jerking off how to much you can see the "hypocrisy" in everything we say.

Compassion and reasoning only go so far in the face of self-destructive idiocy. If you keep trying to stick your tongue into an electric outlet, no matter how much I try to stop you or explain to you why it's bad, at some point, I'm just gonna let you do it.

It's like kids who gotta get a face tattoo just to spite their parents. I wonder how a lot of those young guys who went to the nazi rally are feeling now. I strongly suspect many of them got out of the movement after they realized shit had gotten real and they were on track to being "the nazi guy" for the rest of their lives.

So, why do those on the left continue to stick their tongue in the electrical outlet? At some point, people on the other side are going to start hitting back for real. You can't advocate for disenfranchisement, calling large swaths of people (and let's be real, these people you don't actually know) racists, bigots, homophobes, etc. on a continual basis and expect nothing will happen in return. Imagine if I called everybody on the left communists, and meant it and never stopped. One of y'all would break eventually.


They'll probably regret it, and they deserve to lose jobs for openly displaying that bullshit in marches, rallies and protests. Expose the scum for what they are, let the natural course of condemning racism alter their lives for the worse.

The left do get called communists by people who mean it and never stop. Maybe you're not familiar with American culture, but this is common. This has gone on for ages in addition to the racism and etc that does exist and little reprisal comes of it unless you consider people being rude on the internet a mortal offense. On the other hand, those alt right guys have one rally to get together and bitch about being called a spade and they kill someone.

It goes to show that it really is the right who are perpetually offended. I still hear Trump fans complaining about the one politically incorrect statement about Trump supporters Hillary made. At least people who never stop complaining about things Trump says have a regular stream of new things to get huffy about.

"The Left said something mean about Trump today" is the headline story on every Fox News show each and every day. There's a whole cottage industry of right wing bloggers, streamers, etc who pick out some twitter post or rap song to bitch about and get offended over. Always fanning the flame of the right wing victim complex. What a bunch of whiners... That complex goes so far that you logged onto this forum to say that if people don't stop being meanies there's gonna be trouble. What a lame threat!

I guess you're not counting all the damage AntiFa does? They're really striking against the enemy! If people remembered peaceful protest is a right, maybe everybody could fucking chill out instead of imposing their will on everybody else in a public space, regardless of what side they're on. The asshole who ran over that group of protestors is to blame for that bullshit, and AntiFa, in some instances are to blame for that bullshit as well.

Not really. They spoil some things they shouldn't, like metal concerts, but their violence is severely overrated. I mean, there's been lots of anti-fa events, and only one big nazi event lately, and the nazis currently have the higher body count. Street fighting is, and has always been, a part of politics. Sometimes it's good to let the hotheads on all sides throw down a bit, and sometimes they do good by defending the innocent, such as the ones who went to the nazi rally and helped ensure the nazis didn't feel comfortable enough to threaten the locals (intimidating the local people and local government into not removing the statue they wanted to remove was the whole reason for the rally, after all). The main threat anti-fa poses is to give the police state phony grounds to repress everyone else.

I can't speak to the statues incident as I'm just not on the up-and-up with that event.

I really haven't been paying attention to rallies beyond the last one where that asshole hit that group of protestors. And preemptive bullshit is AnitaFa's entire M.O. They bring violence where it wasn't originally in the calling of some "something might happen!" And then it turns out they're just waiting for some hapless asshole to toss a rock in their general vicinity and then they explode in a violent rage. If anything, I see more plainclothes citizens telling AntiFa to get fucking lost than I do AntiFa battling actual white supremacy.

I still maintain President Trump not publicly condemning white supremacist organizations is extremely alarming. A bunch of politicians (Mitt Romney was one of them, Paul Ryan was another and I think John McCain is another one) on the right came out and publicly condemned white supremacist organization because they're not as idiotic and braindead as Trump is in most regards.

Obviously I was being hyperbolic about calling for an assassination. Well, two thirds joking, to be honest. Kidding on the square. At the very least, I'd like to personally punch that motherfucker in the face. I'm not sure what you mean by the disenfranchisement of 62,000,000 people. They were obviously suckered into thinking this guy was the answer, and certainly when you considered the alternative, Hillary Clinton wasn't really worthy either. (That's why I voted for Jill Stein, btw.) I'm sure there are millions of people who voted for Trump that are face palming themselves right now in light of his first year in office, saying "I can't believe I voted for that guy." It's only gone downhill from the start. Everyday/week is a new low for the American populace. This guy has no moral compass, no actual stance on anything other than what will make him look most favorable in the eyes of the public and his supporters, all in order to please his ridiculous ego. He's a grifter to the extreme. Calling him a liar doesn't even begin to describe it. And then you factor in knowing that he actively doesn't read books, speaks at a fourth grade level intelligence, and is becoming more and more compulsively unhinged, as well as starting to deteriorate in his old age on top of all that. It's sheer lunacy that we're all just going about our lives like everything is okay. Nothing to see here folks. The President must be "a very stable genius," you know. "Believe it!" But feel free to keep defending him and what's left of his idiotic supporters, the alt-right movement, Nazis, white nationalists, and the ku klux klan. I'm sure the fucking astounding "irony and idiocy" of this is not lost on you either.

First, I never defended Donald Trump, so strike one on that. I said rallying for the disenfranchisement of 62,000,000 people under the auspice of "they're all racists!" is a fucking boneheaded view to take.

Secondly, The Ku Klux Klan has members between 5,000 and 8,000 members nationwide. The National Alliance has 2,500 members nationwide. The National Socialist Movement has 400 members. So just to round that up and give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say there's 11,000 organized members of white supremacist groups currently in the United States. [stats source] There are 323,000,000 people in the United States.

You're really, honestly, truly concerned about 0.00340% of the population being a part of white supremacist groups? This tiny fucking number is what you're so afraid of? That you're so concerned this percent of the population is going to somehow rise to wield power under President Trump in any decent capacity? Your fears is the literal equivalent of being scared of those "the south will rise again!" assholes down in Alabama. The name of your band is the exact representation of what you've displayed here: a complete fucking separation from reality. Strike two.


Yeah, no shit. He's a fucking idiot. The complete upending of his cabinet every three months points to complete fucking bedlam in the White House. He drinks an ungodly amount of soda a day and watches like five hours of Fox News a day or some shit, it's fucking insanity. And as I've stated before, time and time again, because y'all just don't get it:

You're being intellectually dishonest there. "Holding white supremacist views" and "organized members of white supremacist groups" are not one and the same thing. You're giving the numbers of the latter, calculate a percentage of the population of the USA based on those and ascribe that number to the former.

An unintended mistake that has been corrected. My numbers were based on the reported numbers from the BBC article I mentioned that were calculating numbers of members of organized groups, specifically.

Hey man it's cool. I was just being spiteful, trying to get a reaction. I realize you don't actual support Trump and "those" people. I also get what you're saying about those hate groups being a very small percentage of the population. I never equated that everyone who voted for Trump was racist, bigoted or misogynistic, and if it came across that way, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. There were a lot of factors that went into people voting for him in the last election. I was just trying to point out that they were ones that have been blinded, and bought into a fraudulent campaign, because they were already feeling disenfranchised. Also, the idea of what I was talking about, about signs that history may be starting to repeat itself, that this leading to fascism and/or hate groups gaining more power isn't that unrealistic to me. We've already seen a huge rise in hate crimes and attacks since Trump has been elected. Despicable people feeling emboldened to exercise their ignorant "free" hate speech and lash out compulsively in order to prove something I guess. That doesn't even begin to account for other horrible things going on within the country, with us seemingly moving closer and closer to a police state, based on the unrestricted mass surveillance of the NSA on any and every citizen, and the militarized police promoting "shoot first, ask questions later" policies, losing sight of their duty to protect and serve the people, in order to keep themselves alive no matter what the cost, as well as supporting these horrible policies and laws across the country without question. I don't know man, these are scary times we're living in. Maybe you wouldn't believe it, but I'm actually pretty optimistic that things are going to start changing this year. It's got to right? Right?! RIGHT?!?!?! mmmhuuhahahahahhahhahahahhhahah (*maniacal laughter as he's taken away in a straitjacket).

For as much shit as I give concepts like political correctness and safe spaces and shit, I still believe in my heart it's moving in the right direction. It's currently an overcorrection that will slowly work back to the "center" and be accepted on all sides. These concepts weren't an answer to Trump, Trump was the answer to these concepts by pulling them in the opposite direction. Much like the left, hopefully the most sensible people on the right will learn to meet in the middle.

Haven't caught up with all the posts here, but I would say no, because antifa =/= "the left." It's a group that isn't even organized, doesn't have leadership, so it just seems like a red herring to me when people keep bringing them up, no matter what they do. I think maybe the right's constant repetition of this stuff may make it seem relevant to them, though.

Compare it with the fact that a lot of the stuff the left complains about comes directly from the POTUS or members of congress, etc. which *are* the people in power, the people with influence, etc.


Yes, and you can add to that how offended many of them are about things like gay people getting equal rights under the law, how much they cheer when bakeries openly discriminate against gay people because "religion," all the arguments about transpeople in the military or using bathrooms when they have to pee, and so on. They also seem to say a lot of bullshit about how hard it is to be a white person/man/heterosexual/Christian in America today, which is just about the eye-rollingest shit I've heard this century.

Also the whole bullshit if you complain about Trump, they tell you to "just leave the country." Addressing problems with your country doesn't mean you want to leave it, it means you recognize that improvements can be made. I would argue if you love your country, you'd want the best for it and would try to improve things instead of abandoning it. (Not to mention that many people don't have the financial means or the ability to actually leave the country.) But they can't accept that, they just don't want people to talk shit about Trump/republicans because it hurts their feelings.

The ranks of both antifa and neo-Nazis share an awful lot of the same people. Not at the same time of course, but there are a lot of overlaps because they both appeal to the aggressive, anti-establishment mentality as well as both have a likely case of undiagnosed bipolar disorder. Remember the straight-edge guys you went to high school with and now they're all heroin addicts? Same model.

Anyway, my point is that collectively dismissing huge swathes of the voting public in a representative democracy will likely only further hurt the very people you're trying to assist. What's more important: you remaining steadfast to your personal code of ethics or the lives of the minority, gender non-binary or lower-class people that will actively get worse as long as the Republicans are in power?

EDIT: I not speel so gut.

That's definitely true in my experience. I know quite a few people who have veered from one extreme to the another over the years. If you are the kind of person who deeply believes the system is fundamentally wrong or broken, when you fall out with one extreme ideology it's not all that difficult to fall into another that shares that basic viewpoint even if it is otherwise very different from what you professed before.

No, I do not think Trump is a white supremacist. Far from the people you mention. But clean as snow white? No.

Won't someone think of those poor 62 millions of fucktards who ruined their own country?

Actually nah. They can all get fucked. They're all adults who went out of their way to vote for a narcissistic bigoted man-child. It's just too bad they're dragging the rest of the world down with them thanks to their infuriatingly stupid decision.

We need some of those 62 million people to make sure this doesn't happen again... or get even worse. As long as we have a representative democracy, blanketly insulting tens of millions of citizens--no matter how deserved of being insulted they may be--simply isn't going to help reverse the damage caused by this administration. Trump is a major setback for this country and he could very well put us in the track for a totalitarian corporatocracy, but he doesn't have to be more than a bump in the road to progress if we don't let him.

There's no false dichotomy about it: if you care about the free world and the lives of disadvantaged people everywhere, you won't further stoke the flames of dissent by pissing off millions upon millions of US voters nationwide.

That's for the DNC to figure out. It's not my job as a random Canadian posting online to coddle these morons and I will never not roll my eyes at sanctimonious people moralizing me otherwise.

Replace the word "Canadian" with "Argentinian" in Morrigan's post and that's pretty much exactly what I was about to write.

If you voted for Trump, fuck you, you're a stupid asshole, and you're partly responsible for dragging the world into this. It's not my job to educate idiots who can't recognize obvious danger when they see it.

Luckily for me I didn't vote for Trump so I am in the clear with that.

Time and again, Trump fans have proven to me to be the most retarded people on the face of the planet. It's like talking to a fucking carrot. Better yet, it's like filling a hat with pieces of paper containing the following phrases and randomly selecting one:

1) "CUCK!"
2) "SNOWFLAKE!"
3) "LIBTARD!"
4) "hurrr durrr another socialist whining because they aren't getting free handouts!"
5) "MAGA!"

Seriously, just pick one of the above next time you think about engaging with one of those pieces of shit. There is absolutely no excuse for anyone with access to the internet to have voted for Trump. I would leave this country in a heartbeat if I had the money to do so. Maybe I will troll Trumpets so hard that they will start a crowdfunding campaign to pay for my moving expenses so I can leave.

Not counting MA's discord since I've never used it, but I feel like I've seen all of these used in chats for years now. Most of which by Europeans in the chat, not even Americans (there not being many in the online circles I'm in).

Anyway, how's Trump fared since the year started? Book drops outlying alleged behind the scenes shitflinging, Trump mental health questioned, and a shithole bomb. First two weeks of the year.

We don't actually have a representative democracy though.

Also, I don't agree with this last part of your post in the slightest. We should absolutely be vocal in voicing our dissect and protesting this. That's what freedom of press/speech/protest and petitioning the government is all about. We're trying to change the opinion of and influence those brainwashed masses anyway.

You don't change opinions and influence people by pulling a Morrigan and calling everyone you don't like a Nazi and that they deserve what happens to them.

You're dead wrong in your characterization of Morrigan, but I will say if you care about Trump getting out of office as quickly as possible, it's maybe not particularly helpful to just ad hom and make a monolith out of everyone who happened to tick a certain box on a ballet. We need people to change their minds in order to fix this, and you'll never change anyone's mind with insults.

I never made those sweeping generalizations about all Trump supporters, and I thought I already clarified this above. Also I don't think that was Morrigan's viewpoint either. I don't see, however, what's wrong with reacting against an on-record, vocal nazi/white nationalist/klan sympathizer in the white house.

There's literally a post above mine somewhere where she says they can get fucked. She's literally the worst person to be having this conversation with, sorry.

There's nothing wrong with pointing that out. There IS something wrong with calling Trump supporters idiots though, when they had nothing to do with that decision.