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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:47 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
They wouldn't have had the votes if they had evidence of financial illegality

loooooooool
Like that matters to these crooks? Are you for real?
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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darkhness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 30
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:23 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
They wouldn't have had the votes if they had evidence of financial illegality

loooooooool
Like that matters to these crooks? Are you for real?


Umm it does because they wouldn't have the votes? Do you actually think the Republicans have some sort of shadow government that bends and nullifies rules?

Cause I was about to say...

EDIT:
We clearly witnessed Jeff Flake get easily swayed by some protesters to call for an investigation. What on earth do you think credible, financial records and accusations would do?

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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:04 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
They wouldn't have had the votes if they had evidence of financial illegality

loooooooool
Like that matters to these crooks? Are you for real?


Are you for real? It matters to the IRS, the FBI, the DOJ, and state prosecutors, which the Senate can't do anything about. It would have near-instantly triggered a flood of injunctions making their way through the court system. And it would have mattered to a handful of senators (which is all they needed) in a way that unverifiable decades-old s/he-said allegations will never matter to these people.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:44 pm 
 

darkhness wrote:
Umm it does because they wouldn't have the votes? Do you actually think the Republicans have some sort of shadow government that bends and nullifies rules?

Merrick Garland says hi.

Quote:
Cause I was about to say...

EDIT:
We clearly witnessed Jeff Flake get easily swayed by some protesters to call for an investigation. What on earth do you think credible, financial records and accusations would do?

He wasn't swayed at all, it was just posturing. The investigation was a sham, deliberately limited in scope, and used as cover just so he can say "oh look they didn't find anything (nevermind that they didn't interview Kavanaugh or Ford themselves) so I'm totally cool and justified with voting yes now plz leave me alone".

Earthcubed wrote:
Are you for real? It matters to the IRS, the FBI, the DOJ, and state prosecutors, which the Senate can't do anything about. It would have near-instantly triggered a flood of injunctions making their way through the court system. And it would have mattered to a handful of senators (which is all they needed) in a way that unverifiable decades-old s/he-said allegations will never matter to these people.

Trump is a criminal and they still support him, so no, I don't see how it'd matter because rule of law doesn't matter to these people. Anyway, unlike the President, SCOTUS judges can be indicted/arrested, right? So if criminal charges are actually brought against Kavanaugh and he got convicted, then wouldn't him being confirmed change nothing and he'd have to be removed?
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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darkhness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 30
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:12 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Merrick Garland says hi.

What the hell does this mean? You aren't making any sense. How is Merrick Garland an indicator of what I said? The Republicans had a Senate majority since 2014. OF COURSE they will block the nomination and won't hold a vote. Bud, come on.

Morrigan wrote:
He wasn't swayed at all, it was just posturing. The investigation was a sham, deliberately limited in scope, and used as cover just so he can say "oh look they didn't find anything (nevermind that they didn't interview Kavanaugh or Ford themselves) so I'm totally cool and justified with voting yes now plz leave me alone".

That's dumb. He's not running for his seat. Let's say he was just posturing, again, don't you think he would find it more compelling to posture had it been Kavanaugh's financial records? If it was so easy for him to posture because a woman cried in front of him, it would be even easier if they had that financial evidence against Kavanaugh.

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5998
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:22 pm 
 

While money crimes do get more criminal attention and tend to face more severity in the US, I'm rather doubtful that it would make a difference here. Almost every US Senator has some financial dirt on them, and probably every Supreme Court judge too, so making revelations about that would have surprised nobody. Admittedly, it also doesn't tend to get the public's blood boiling, either. In the public mindset all these politicians and judges are corrupt anyway, so what difference does it make that we know yet another is corrupt? Maybe it was a lost opportunity for the Democrats, but I don't doubt he would have been confirmed anyway - this allegation or that allegation.

That said, continuing on about "what ifs" as far as Kavanaugh's confirmation are concerned is no longer really all that useful. The damage is done, and he's now a Supreme Court judge. The next challenge for the Democrats will be the midterm elections, and convincing people to come out and vote instead of deciding to sit home and wallow in despair.
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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:00 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Trump is a criminal and they still support him, so no, I don't see how it'd matter because rule of law doesn't matter to these people. Anyway, unlike the President, SCOTUS judges can be indicted/arrested, right? So if criminal charges are actually brought against Kavanaugh and he got convicted, then wouldn't him being confirmed change nothing and he'd have to be removed?


...and as I already said, Kavanaugh isn't the president. He is not the leader of the party.

If the GOP was so blase about hard evidence of wrongdoing they wouldn't have been so terrified of the 90% of Kavanaugh's White House records that were shielded. Consider how different the response was to that compared to their frequent, open, loud calls for Ford to testify. Consider also that Ford's name was leaked to the media from the White House. They wanted an enemy to rally around and destroy, and people fell for it. You can't destroy documents that can be entered into a court case.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make at the end of that paragraph. You can't have criminal charges if you can't produce evidence. They didn't even seek to produce evidence.

Derigin wrote:
*stuff*


Yes, the midterms are the immediate cause for concern, but that doesn't excuse the committee dems in the long term. This was more than just a "lost opportunity," it was political, policy, procedural, and moral malpractice. They knowingly chose fan-service to the #MeToo movement for their own electoral purposes rather than actually try to deliver something tangible to the movement.

Getting "the public's blood boiling" at the expense of actually delivering anything worthwhile on policy is precisely one of the party's biggest problems.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:52 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
...and as I already said, Kavanaugh isn't the president. He is not the leader of the party.

Doesn't stop partisan hacks from ignoring rule of law to protect their own.

Quote:
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make at the end of that paragraph. You can't have criminal charges if you can't produce evidence. They didn't even seek to produce evidence.

My point is if that financial wrongdoing is real and they decided to produce the evidence later, it doesn't matter if it gets brought up after he's confirmed. Couldn't they still bring it up, independently of this confirmation shenanigans? And then if he's convicted he'd have to be removed from the court.

Quote:
Yes, the midterms are the immediate cause for concern, but that doesn't excuse the committee dems in the long term. This was more than just a "lost opportunity," it was political, policy, procedural, and moral malpractice. They knowingly chose fan-service to the #MeToo movement for their own electoral purposes rather than actually try to deliver something tangible to the movement.

"Fan service to the #metoo movement"? That's how you describe their support of Dr. Ford? Get the fuck out of here with this garbage.

Or maybe they just wanted justice for the victims and wanted a sexual predator to be held accountable, and foolishly dared to hope it would go better 30 years after Anita Hill? The horror of people actually caring about women because it's not the flawless political strategy that you have apparently all figured out.

Quote:
Getting "the public's blood boiling" at the expense of actually delivering anything worthwhile on policy is precisely one of the party's biggest problems.

*snorts* That strategy works perfectly well on the Republican side, mind.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 2905
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:42 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
...and as I already said, Kavanaugh isn't the president. He is not the leader of the party.

Doesn't stop partisan hacks from ignoring rule of law to protect their own.



Republicans, because they are staunchly Christian, are very much of the mindset that "one bad apple spoils the bunch." In the same way all of the Bible is the perfect word of god, to even admit one thing means the rest is flawed. Republicans will rally around their bad apples, keeping them in the basket until the rot spreads, instead of simply removing the rotten one from the mix.

This is their mindset--and it works on a lot of voters because it gives them the impression of being "team players" who all have their shit together. Even if it's terrible, it's a united front. Sadly, the current Republican party is effectively nothing but terrible now, making all older stereotypes of the party look downright naive. Instead of picking quality candidates, they pick whack-jobs, lunatics, and sociopaths, and then instead of realizing that was a mistake, they fucking double-down and defend the mistake. Adding one more rotten apple to the basket increasingly filled with rot.

It's sad and pathetic that people on the right have become so devoid of integrity that they just continue to go along with this.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:09 am 
 

I found it hilarious when McConnell was asked if the GOP would ease the reigns on campaigning against Joe Manchin in West Virginia and he just pulled his human tortoise smirk and said, "well, he's still a democrat."

If dems had half the tribalist allegiance of the Republicans they'd be running the show. Instead, all they want to do is compromise and meet them halfway, even though time and time again they've been shown that Repubs won't accept the compromise or return the favor later. Why the hell are Warren and Sanders the only dems who actually seem to give a damn?
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:26 pm 
 

Because New England blues are surrounded by vocal minorities of common sense reds. The sides actually balance out more often than not up here.
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darkhness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:57 pm
Posts: 30
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:33 pm 
 

Now to address the elephant in the room, will Roe v. Wade get overturned?

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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
Posts: 1376
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:41 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I found it hilarious when McConnell was asked if the GOP would ease the reigns on campaigning against Joe Manchin in West Virginia and he just pulled his human tortoise smirk and said, "well, he's still a democrat."

If dems had half the tribalist allegiance of the Republicans they'd be running the show. Instead, all they want to do is compromise and meet them halfway, even though time and time again they've been shown that Repubs won't accept the compromise or return the favor later. Why the hell are Warren and Sanders the only dems who actually seem to give a damn?

Republicans only care about "compromise" and "bi-partisianship" when they want to demand something and Dems aren't immediately ready to cave to them. Otherwise it's "stop your obstructionist tactics!! We won, get over it!!"

Every time I pick up the Washington Post and I read some trite shit piece whining about how there isn't bi-partisanship, I want to roll my eyes out of my skull.

The GOP are arsonists and they're asking for permission to slowly burn the country down. They are the party that allies with Nazis (either openly or passively), hate women, hate minorities, and hate the poor. WHAT THE FUCK IS THERE TO COMPROMISE WITH?!
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Meditari
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:12 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm 
 

Is there any light at the end of this tunnel/societal shift? We seem to be going nowhere good very fast for the last few years and honestly it's looking like everything that I took for granted, basic human decency I suppose, is out of the window now. Being in Texas it seems pretty rare to not run into people that isn't caught up in at least one of the crazes (alt-right, anti-pc/sjw/feminists, etc...) that's been very popular lately, and it leaves me feeling pretty hopeless. Maybe I'm just seeing too much gloom and doom, and there's actually some light in all of this...

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~Guest 322837
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:03 pm 
 

There will be no light so long as nobody is willing to be patient. Everything has become so polarized, everybody is divided, and there's a constant 'us vs them' mentality going in every little corner of political thought. I think for the most part, people will tend not to be "radically" right OR left. Because I take 'radical' to mean that you would sacrifice everything you have, your place in the social world, and your own safety for the sake of your political cause. That is not most of us: most people are moderates. But we're all afraid to be wrong, it makes us suffer from shame headaches. And we all want to be right. So when someone commits the crime of making a mistake, there will be people at their throats saying 'fuck you, you're wrong you piece of shit!' And on the other hand, if someone makes an error, rather than owning up to it, it's far more likely that we get a 'fuck you, I'm not wrong, you're ruining America!' And nobody's going to get better because nobody is willing to be patient with anybody. Those are just my very broad and general reflections on your very warranted pessimism, Meditari.

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hakarl
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 pm 
 

Normally I'd agree, but the politics in US have become so evil, so corrupt, and so perverse, that it simply beggars belief.
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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:07 pm 
 

wraithlike wrote:
There will be no light so long as nobody is willing to be patient. Everything has become so polarized, everybody is divided, and there's a constant 'us vs them' mentality going in every little corner of political thought. I think for the most part, people will tend not to be "radically" right OR left. Because I take 'radical' to mean that you would sacrifice everything you have, your place in the social world, and your own safety for the sake of your political cause. That is not most of us: most people are moderates. But we're all afraid to be wrong, it makes us suffer from shame headaches. And we all want to be right. So when someone commits the crime of making a mistake, there will be people at their throats saying 'fuck you, you're wrong you piece of shit!' And on the other hand, if someone makes an error, rather than owning up to it, it's far more likely that we get a 'fuck you, I'm not wrong, you're ruining America!' And nobody's going to get better because nobody is willing to be patient with anybody. Those are just my very broad and general reflections on your very warranted pessimism, Meditari.


There is no time to be patient anymore. We are witnessing the return of extremely painful, deep-seated, even lethal issues with the most fundamental aspects of how modern societies operate. Our way of life doesn't work anymore and, far from finding a better one, we can't even keep its flaws from getting worse and worse. Politics is not a bunch of well-read, well-bred, well-dressed scholarly types sitting around calmly discussing abstract principles. It is life and death. It is violence. It is in many ways a less direct form of war. The left vs. right divide isn't some new thing. It is a reckoning our society has been putting off, again and again, for 300 years by always finding more stuff to turn into money. Well now we're about out of new things to turn into money, and the rich are hoarding what's left. We're not going to have a nice peaceful compromise like we had with social democracy after World War II. The problem is not some fear of being Wrong on the Internet, it's the sort of fundamental disagreements on how human beings ought to live and organize themselves that almost always end in war.

History doesn't give a goddamn about your moderation. We're approaching an era of radical, violent change to how we live our lives, for better or (more likely) worse, and such eras do not leave room for a "middle" on the political spectrum. Over the coming years, we will only see more radicalization and polarization as the lives of ordinary people are put under greater and greater pressure by this anti-human death cult we call "the economy". Once a critical mass of people feel like they are doomed and have nothing to lose by engaging in mass unrest, daily life as we know it will end, and suddenly. Have you ever thought about all the things that happen in the background of our lives, all the work that makes the social machinery of industrial civilization keep turning. Think about how food gets to the grocery store, any grocery store in an affluent country, by truck, via a gigantic worldwide logistical system. What if those deliveries to the stores stopped coming? People have to eat, no matter what? What will they eat? Whom will they turn to to get something to eat? What will they be willing to do to get it?

People in poor countries, and the vast majority of the history of civilization in which most residents of civilization were desperately poor, always had to deal with these problems. Most people in the West have been insulated from the violence that sustains and reproduces our civilization every day since the late 19th century, and our educational system and culture direct us to look away from them. But we can't look away anymore. Those problems are ours now. The left and the right (excluding liberals on both sides, so socialists, anarchists, and communists on the left and fascists and other reactionaries on the right) have always offered alternatives to liberalism. Liberal democracy no longer functions, because it was always a compromise dependent on economic growth to try to appease both labor and capital, and we're probably never going to see significant growth again within our lifetimes because we ran out of planet, so we must consider one of these alternatives. People will kill each other over these alternatives, even for ones that unlike, say, fascism or Stalinism, don't endorse killing as a good thing under any circumstances, even if it's just because the people they killed were trying to kill them first.

Congratulations on being in a really shitty time to be alive. It's only going to get worse!
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Bates
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 11:28 pm
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Location: South Sound, WA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:31 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
... because we ran out of planet,


In a nutshell, indeed.
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~Guest 322837
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:28 am 
 

I see that things are getting really bad. I wasn't necessarily advocating for centrism, I'm just saying that most of the people you are going to run into aren't radicals, and I don't think that's going to change either. To be a radical is to be ready to die for a cause, and that is almost nobody in your country, especially in this 'post-truth' era. By 'moderate', I guess what I meant was that we really can't be so ready to incinerate anyone who might disagree with us in one way or another, because that's really how the dialogue has become (and I think that really is just a symptom of being hyperconnected across vast distances). Maybe I'm completely off the mark with all that, but you'll have to forgive me in that case for being drunk and Canadian.

I do share a lot of your sentiments Woolie, and if you see a violent uprising, then allow me to cross the border into your then war-torn self destructed mess of a nation and get you a couple beers as we wait for fire to rain down from the sky.

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Meditari
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:12 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:05 pm 
 

This doesn't feel like a phase, and I think I know the difference by now. It rather feels like something that's been unspoken for a long time has been awakened in people and won't be lulled to sleep so easily this time around. Someone above mentioned feeling like it is worthless to hold progressive views as they feel it never lasts in the face of our more tribalistic tendencies. I don't know if I'm that cynical, but I think their fear hits on the fear I have, that these problems run a lot deeper than the kind of trends that come and go.

I'm reminded that it was not THAT long ago when the most violent and obnoxious forms of hate against the races and sexes and etc in this country was normal and very widespread. I don't think it ever went away, and moments in history such as the last few years hammer this home to me and reminds me that whatever progress we made can flip with a coin toss. In the face of this reality I wonder if any progress was ever made in the first place.

Again, perhaps too gloom and doom. I don't know.

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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 pm 
 

The rules of the game have changed entirely. Trump has essentially opened a can of worms and invited the worst kind of behavior by appealing to people's fears of those who aren't like us, because he has managed to sell the idea that these "others" are responsible for stealing from them - whether its their jobs, their money, or even their culture itself. This isn't something that is going to go away when Trump does. You have an administration that is essentially threatening to unravel progress that has taken decades to build and they have built a series of false narratives around why they're justified in doing it. Calm, open dialogue works when both parties act in good faith - not when one is intent on undermining even the most basic principles of law and justice.

I read a post from someone a little while back, and it was essentially a response to moderates who were complaining that there isn't enough polite decorum with opposition anymore.

"When someone is stepping on your neck, you don't ask them nicely to stop."
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darkhness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:57 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:27 pm 
 

stickyshooZ wrote:
...even the most basic principles of law and justice.


Oh, sort of like when they tried to throw due process out of the window when it came to Kavanaugh?

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theposega
Mezla

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:42 pm
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Location: Neo-Allegheny City
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:34 pm 
 

lol
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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:35 pm 
 

Nobody tried to throw out due process; even if the lack of investigation regarding the Ford situation wasn't sketchy as fuck (and it is), Kavanaugh still proved himself to be a belligerent, childish, partisan egomaniac, completely unfit for the position of power that's been granted to him. Not wanting him to have a seat in the Supreme Court is only logical.

Have any Democrat-backed judge rant about beer and cry like a child about unfairness and conspiracies during his hearing and see how quickly they kick his ass out of the building.

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darkhness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:57 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:46 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Nobody tried to throw out due process; even if the lack of investigation regarding the Ford situation wasn't sketchy as fuck (and it is), Kavanaugh still proved himself to be a belligerent, childish, partisan egomaniac, completely unfit for the position of power that's been granted to him. Not wanting him to have a seat in the Supreme Court is only logical.
Have any Democrat-backed judge rant about beer and cry like a child about unfairness and conspiracies during his hearing and see how quickly they kick his ass out of the building.


There clearly was an investigation, and it was the Dems' fault they haven't asked for one earlier. You can thank Feinstein for that one.

If anyone is accused of rape/sexual assault publicly as he was, they have every right to be angered and a bit nervous when they defend themselves. Especially when the accusation seemed like a carefully calculated last minute attack to stop his nomination. Also the people that keep pushing this idea that all judges are some stoic, soft spoken individuals have not been around many judges. Just my two cents friend.

Xlxlx wrote:
Have any Democrat-backed judge rant about beer and cry like a child about unfairness and conspiracies during his hearing and see how quickly they kick his ass out of the building.

Interesting, where is the Democratic base calling for Keith Ellison to suspend his campaign for MN Attorney General? I thought we believe all women?

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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
Posts: 1376
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:44 am 
 

darkhness wrote:
stickyshooZ wrote:
...even the most basic principles of law and justice.


Oh, sort of like when they tried to throw due process out of the window when it came to Kavanaugh?

Except Kavanaugh wasn't the subject of a court trial, nor was he under any criminal investigation due to the allegations against him. The testimony given by Dr. Ford was nothing more than a formal hearing. Not an actual legal proceeding. Try again.

And to act as if the FBI "investigation" was anything other than lip service so that Republicans can act as if they did their due diligence is comical. The FBI didn't interview Ford, nor did they interview Kavanaugh, nor did they interview many other potential key witnesses. Guess why? Because Trump ultimately is the one who tells them who they can and cannot investigate.
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darkhness
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:18 am 
 

All of the witnesses that Ford named could not corroborate her story. One witness even said she didn't know Kavanaugh at that time. How can the FBI investigate something when there is nothing to investigate? The Dems wanted an investigation that would go well past the elections in hopes that they win back the senate.

Yes, Kavanaugh wasn't subject to a court trial. However, the way the Democrats treated him, and the way he was portrayed in the media was far from fair.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:38 am 
 

just read this article dude: https://theintercept.com/2018/10/04/bre ... park-five/
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:09 am 
 

darkhness wrote:
All of the witnesses that Ford named could not corroborate her story. One witness even said she didn't know Kavanaugh at that time. How can the FBI investigate something when there is nothing to investigate? The Dems wanted an investigation that would go well past the elections in hopes that they win back the senate.

Yes, Kavanaugh wasn't subject to a court trial. However, the way the Democrats treated him, and the way he was portrayed in the media was far from fair.


Even if his treatment wasn't fair, Kavanaugh went above and beyond demonstrating that he lacks the unbiased nature, the emotional control, or the maturity or temperament to be a judge in any court, let alone the highest court in the country. The man is an uncontrolled pile of emotional baggage, and only someone firmly locked into the Cult of Trump would ever think he should've gotten that job. Indeed, he was approved by a vote representing a stark minority of the American public. Republicans aren't doing what's good for the country.

Indeed, they seem to be taking more notes from Nicolas Maduro's "stay in power at any cost" playbook.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:27 am 
 

darkhness wrote:

Xlxlx wrote:
Have any Democrat-backed judge rant about beer and cry like a child about unfairness and conspiracies during his hearing and see how quickly they kick his ass out of the building.

Interesting, where is the Democratic base calling for Keith Ellison to suspend his campaign for MN Attorney General? I thought we believe all women?



Keith Ellison himself supported the investigation and the DFL looked into it. The initial investigation found the claim unsubstantiated, but forwarded what they found to local law enforcement in the event they are to perform any further investigation. There is a colossal difference here between Ellison and Kavanaugh. Ellison did not explode into an emotionally unstable man-child. Ellison did not spin conspiracy theories about the right trying to destroy him. Ellison cooperated with the investigation. Ellison did not try to play the victim.

Republicans are a bunch of fucking cowards, hiding behind their protection of the Wealthy White Boys Club. Democrats are adults, who more often seem to own up to their mistakes. Al Franken apologized, noted remorse, and resigned. Kavanaugh yelled a lot, talked about how much he loved beer, and will be taking away women's rights. Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women. I think it's fair to say that Republicans just want to be able to do whatever they want to women without being called out for being horrible shitbags. No, this is not 100% accurate in any regard. There are the occasional Democrats who behaved incorrectly when called out. The point is that Republicans behave incorrectly on almost all fronts, bullying their way through it while pretending their privileged asses are victims. Especially under this administration.

You are deliberately confusing "believe all women" with "all men are guilty." Be smarter. It's not difficult to understand.

Women want to be taken seriously when they make a claim like this. Not mistreated, not ignored, not harassed, and not to have their lives further upended. Trump openly mocked Ford, which is a monstrous thing to do, and supporting a monster makes you a monster. Pretending the Ellison and Kavanaugh issues are even remotely similar just makes you a fucking moron. So I sincerely hope you aren't trying for that play. I'm sure you can do better.
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darkhness
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 am 
 

Good on Keith Ellison.

I can not take you seriously when you use shit like "Wealthy White Boys Club." Stop being a man-child. Act like an adult. This isn't a Buzzfeed opinion piece written by a failed 30 year old feminist who only talks about how white people are bad for the country. I think you're better than that.

There was photographic evidence of Franken acting inappropriately, yet it still took months of pressure for him to rightfully resign, all while being supported by his fellow Democrats. Sounds like a nasty, vile party to me.

If you're going to claim Ford wasn't believed, you're a moron. The fact that the vote kept on being delayed, the FBI investigation taking place, the Committee catering to Ford's almost every demand even though later on she was found to be a liar (Her fear of flying was a delaying tactic.) Ford was believed by everyone from the get go. The difference between the Dems and Republicans was, that due to political reasons the Democrats viewed Kavanaugh guilty before proven innocent. That's not how justice works. First, Kavanaugh was accused of being too conservative. Then he was accused of sexual misconduct. Whenever that didn't stick and it proved to be false, then he was accused of being angry and ill tempered. I'm willing to be that if he wouldn't get emotional during the hearing he would be accused of being guilty due to not having passion in his denial of the allegations.

As for your last paragraph, Ford was not mistreated, she was catered to almost every way. She definitely was not ignored. As for harassed, you're probably talking about Susan Collins being harassed by all those angry callers and protesters. Other than that, you can cry me a river.


Last edited by Morrigan on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:40 am 
 

Yes, poor Kavanaugh, he truly was the victim here. Only got the cushiest job in the land. Meanwhile Dr. Ford, that spoiled "catered" brat, can't even go home due to all the death threats she's facing.

Cry me a fucking river indeed. You misogynistic conservative assholes really are all the same. Go fuck right off back to /r/the_donald where they might actually buy your breathtakingly obvious fucking lies.
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~Guest 322837
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:40 pm 
 

Okay maybe that was some vain Canadian optimism with that whole patience shit I was spouting. I genuinely believe that would be healthy for everyone but honestly fuck everybody in your country. I sometimes forget that there are actually countless people who would eat up the kind of shit some dumbass like Stephen Crowder would spout and here we all are now.

I really hope we're watching a Fall of Rome. This should not be sustainable anymore.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm 
 

bUt MuH fReEzE pEaCh

Dear god, that darkhness guy, what an absolute nitwit.
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Last edited by darkeningday on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Meditari
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 pm 
 

That was a pretty good example of what I meant earlier. I know these people have always existed but I'm seeing these kinds of talking points a lot more than usual, and that one specifically from more women than might be expected as well. It's very frustrating for me to even try entertaining that kind of argument because what they're saying doesn't even seem to matter to them more than the underlining feeling or intentions they have when they say it. It's like they're speaking a language only they and the others like them understand and relying on information from some alternative world. I guess some of these are called dog-whistles, and they are the most frustrating things for me to encounter in people because they ALWAYS "win" a discussion just by the amount of people willing to play along with them against the one, maybe two people who call it out. I guess that is not the case here, though. So there is some hope lol.

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:22 am 
 

Got a bunch of musicians on my Facebook feed acting like the Music Modernization Act would actually affect them. I imagine it's the same sort of people that still think trickle down economics work.

The only real impressive about this bill is that it was a unanimous vote among Democrats and Republicans. Just makes me wish we could get this sort of cooperation on things that actually matter...
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~Guest 21181
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:17 pm 
 

so how do we all feel now that we know America's leader will tolerate Americans getting dismembered on NATO soil so long as the butchers buy things from him

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:23 pm 
 

That's really stretching it, man. Embassies enjoy extraterritorial status. As shitty as this is, what happens in a Saudi embassy in Turkey is the fault entirely of the Saudis and not the Turks. This could have happened anywhere in the world, and the host nation still would have not interfered since the way diplomacy works mandates that what happens in an embassy is the business of its sovereign nation. It's only when host nations break this diplomatic protocol, and thus end up proving to the world that they can't be trusted to respect extraterritoriality, that they end up invading on that sovereignty. I highly doubt the Turks would have wanted to do that as it's a huge international faux pas. This isn't their fault.

It is the fault of the Saudis, and while America loves to support them despite shit like this, so it seems is the case with the rest of the Western world, too. We just can't seem to escape our willingness to let Saudi Arabia get away with things like this. They also love it when we fight and blame each other, by the way; they know full well that host nations won't be inclined to infringe on their extraterritorial sovereignty, but that it is also advantageous for them to see the rest of us scapegoat that nation for some part of the blame for letting it happen. Turkey didn't just let it happen. It was only after the fact that they even learned that this happened, in large part because they - like any other country - trust that the nations who have embassies in their country don't murder people.

So to more accurately reflect your post:
"so how do we all feel now that we know Western leaders will tolerate people getting murdered and dismembered by wealthy barbaric backwards butchers so long as the butchers buy things from them"

My response: Disturbed, but sadly unsurprised by it all. In fact, when worded that way, it almost feels like capitalism at work.
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~Guest 21181
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am 
 

Where exactly in my post did you get the impression I blame Turkey of all countries for this? Where exactly did you get the impression I expected anyone to invade the embassy? The White House had an opportunity to warn him ahead of time and they couldn't even bring themselves to do that.

And no, this isn't "business as usual with Saudi Arabia." Elaborately luring an ally's residents into an embassy so you can murder them is not a normal part of relations with Saudi Arabia. POTUS dissembling, defending, and standing up for a foreign country murdering people he has a responsibility to protect is not normal. Setting a standard of "well he was a resident, not a citizen, so it doesn't count" is not normal.

Trump's response to this is nearly as damaging as what transpired in Helsinki this summer. No other American president's reaction to this would have been even in the same ballpark. They would have at a minimum condemned the action and recalled the American ambassador in Riyadh, not strongly defend them and then grace the Saudi's presence with a smiling secretary of state.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:52 am 
 

The Saudi government has killed and maimed more than 35,000 civilians in Yemen with primarily American weapons, yet only now that they murder a journalist is it finally worth getting (if you'll pardon the pun) up in arms about?

Relatedly, Pat Robertson says God wants us to keep selling weapons to the Saudis because Kashoggi could like totally be okay and the real threat is scary scary Iran (and also a billion dollars could buy lots of bibles). :lol:

The cognitive dissonance of despising every and all things Muslim while singing the praises of the Saudi and Syrian regimes must be pretty intense.
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