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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
Posts: 4364
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:12 pm 
 

For those in Illinois, you may be interested in knowing that you have a Nazi running for Congress. The kicker is that he doesn't even have a primary challenger against him.

Quote:
In a section called “Holocaust?” Jones describes the atrocities as a “racket” and “the biggest, blackest, lie in history.” Under another tab titled “Flags of Conflict,” he lists the Confederate flag first and describes it as “a symbol of White pride and White resistance” and “the flag of a White counter revolution.”

And in his most recent blog post — dated Aug. 24, 2017 — Jones railed against “Radical Leftists” and blamed them for starting racial violence in Charlottesville about two weeks before. Heather Heyer, 32, who had been there to protest white supremacists, died after a self-professed neo-Nazi drove a car into a crowd of demonstrators. He was charged with second-degree murder. Jones painted the death as an accident.

Despite his views, Jones is all but certain to become the GOP nominee for one of Illinois’s most prominent congressional districts, one that includes parts of Chicago and several suburbs to the west and southwest. Jones is running unopposed in the Republican primary — and the deadline to file to run against him was in early December.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=UP97DHP
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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 pm 
 

There hasn't been a GOP congressman from that district in almost 50 years. Nobody in the GOP is running against him because nobody who isn't a Democrat can possibly win that seat.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:03 am 
 

AboveTheThrone wrote:
I just hate how neo-cons have taken over the Republican party. Real conservatives don't support the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror". The state of politics in this country is a fucking joke. Literally half of the population is too lazy to Google simple political issues and are devoid of critical thinking skills.

Rand Paul is a Republican and I quite like him.


Rand Paul is a line-towing Republican and is more likely to simply go along with the party than stand by his "principles." He's had a couple of fairly impressive moments a few years ago, but lately, nothing. Essentially, any Republican not actively working against Trump is instead actively working against the American people.
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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 pm
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Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:02 am 
 

You may be right. I'm admittedly out-of-the-loop regarding his recent activities. But he always seemed decent to me. I also like his father, minus his anti-choice stance.

Edit: Yeah, he's apparently against gay marriage. Fuck him :lol:

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Nagilum1984
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:49 am
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:13 pm 
 

AboveTheThrone wrote:
Here is Richard Spencer getting punched in the face. Enjoy.
Youtube: show


So you think it's totally fine to use violence against people you disagree with? Nice..

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:28 pm 
 

AboveTheThrone wrote:
You may be right. I'm admittedly out-of-the-loop regarding his recent activities. But he always seemed decent to me. I also like his father, minus his anti-choice stance.

Edit: Yeah, he's apparently against gay marriage. Fuck him :lol:


I was more Libertarian-leaning a couple years ago, and started following Ron Paul and Rand Paul, like a lot of people, because he was Ron Paul's kid. I find both of them to be poor representations for Libertarians, and in the younger's case, he was far more likely to "just do what the other Republicans were doing." I gradually grew tired of his bullshit, and then found myself somewhat less libertarian and more left-leaning. A rather big change from being a righty several years back.

But the more I loved science and reason, the less I could support Republicans and their anti-science bullshit.

The more I loved rationality and facts, the less I could support Libertarians who are often all too quick to cling to conspiracy theories (they are arguably the most conspiracy-theory-addled of all political leanings, Trump himself notwithstanding). That, and many libertarians don't seem to understand that they are dancing around with anarchism, not libertarianism.
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Nagilum1984
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:49 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:36 pm 
 

Its time that someone defends Trump, I see. Can't let this turn into an echochamber. I think he has done a quite descent job. Mostly because he doesn't care about political correctness and he is building the wall, hence trying to actually do something with the immigration problem.

Yes he isn't perfect. He clearly isn't a rhetorical genius and he has adapted too much to the mainstream Republican narrative, but he is the best option and I surely hope we will get our Trumps here in Europe.

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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:03 pm 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
AboveTheThrone wrote:
You may be right. I'm admittedly out-of-the-loop regarding his recent activities. But he always seemed decent to me. I also like his father, minus his anti-choice stance.

Edit: Yeah, he's apparently against gay marriage. Fuck him :lol:


I was more Libertarian-leaning a couple years ago, and started following Ron Paul and Rand Paul, like a lot of people, because he was Ron Paul's kid. I find both of them to be poor representations for Libertarians, and in the younger's case, he was far more likely to "just do what the other Republicans were doing." I gradually grew tired of his bullshit, and then found myself somewhat less libertarian and more left-leaning. A rather big change from being a righty several years back.

But the more I loved science and reason, the less I could support Republicans and their anti-science bullshit.

The more I loved rationality and facts, the less I could support Libertarians who are often all too quick to cling to conspiracy theories (they are arguably the most conspiracy-theory-addled of all political leanings, Trump himself notwithstanding). That, and many libertarians don't seem to understand that they are dancing around with anarchism, not libertarianism.

Yeah, libertarianism is unfortunately affiliated with morons like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones. Penn Jillette, Andrew Napolitano, and Joe Rogan are much better representatives of the movement. I feel like Henry Rollins is also a libertarian, but I could be wrong on that.

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:41 pm 
 

Nagilum1984 wrote:
Its time that someone defends Trump, I see. Can't let this turn into an echochamber. I think he has done a quite descent job. Mostly because he doesn't care about political correctness and he is building the wall, hence trying to actually do something with the immigration problem.

Yes he isn't perfect. He clearly isn't a rhetorical genius and he has adapted too much to the mainstream Republican narrative, but he is the best option and I surely hope we will get our Trumps here in Europe.


Please state what the "problem" is with immigration. What is this "problem"? How does building a wall stop the problem? For instance, if the problem is "too many brown people coming to America," please explain how a wall will stop airplanes, as the vast majority of immigrants to the US simply fly here.

By decent job, please explain to all of us what he has done that has been decent? Please pick one of the following "decent deeds" performed by Trump thus far and defend them:

1. Wasted considerable time trying to steal health care from 30 million Americans.
2. Failed three times to steal health care from 30 million Americans.
3. Lowered taxes for the wealthiest 1% while gutting and raising taxes for the Middle Class.
4. Attempted to bring wholesale discrimination to the military by banning Trans people.
5. Failed to bring wholesale discrimination to the military when this was overturned.
6. Played more golf one one year than Obama did in 8. As a reminder, he publicly criticized Obama for this.
7. Failed to release his tax returns after promising repeatedly to release his tax returns.
8. Blamed Obama and Hillary for his failures.
9. Caused a government shut-down. As a reminder, he previously stated publicly that when the government shuts down, the President (then Obama) is totally to blame.
10. Still at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. GITMO still open.
11. Regularly embarrassed the United States on the world stage.
12. Pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord, a move which accomplished nothing but making the US look moronic.
13. Every single person he's appointed to a government position has been ill-suited for the position, hostile to the department he put them in, or frankly incompetent.
14. He's WAY behind on actually filling government seats.
15. Mocked veterans.
16. Started a war of Republicans vs Law Enforcement, particularly against the FBI and CIA.
17. Signed more Executive Orders than pretty much any other President. Reminder: Mocked and criticized Obama for signing Executive Orders.
18. Regularly added fuel to the fire that he and his Administration are under the ownership of Russia.
19. Led an assault on America's national parks and natural resources.
20. Supported Nazis.

I'll stop there. Anyone else want to add "good deed" summaries I missed?
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:45 pm 
 

AboveTheThrone wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:

Spoiler: show
I was more Libertarian-leaning a couple years ago, and started following Ron Paul and Rand Paul, like a lot of people, because he was Ron Paul's kid. I find both of them to be poor representations for Libertarians, and in the younger's case, he was far more likely to "just do what the other Republicans were doing." I gradually grew tired of his bullshit, and then found myself somewhat less libertarian and more left-leaning. A rather big change from being a righty several years back.

But the more I loved science and reason, the less I could support Republicans and their anti-science bullshit.

The more I loved rationality and facts, the less I could support Libertarians who are often all too quick to cling to conspiracy theories (they are arguably the most conspiracy-theory-addled of all political leanings, Trump himself notwithstanding). That, and many libertarians don't seem to understand that they are dancing around with anarchism, not libertarianism.

Yeah, libertarianism is unfortunately affiliated with morons like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones. Penn Jillette, Andrew Napolitano, and Joe Rogan are much better representatives of the movement. I feel like Henry Rollins is also a libertarian, but I could be wrong on that.


As much as I love Penn, he was a Global Warming denialist for way too long. Joe Rogan only adds to the idea that libertarians are awash in conspiracy theorists, as he is one. His character on Newsradio was pretty much completely the real him. Supposedly he's finally come around and stopped pretending we didn't land on the moon, but he still clung by that for way too fucking long. He may still be a 9/11 "truther."
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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:04 pm 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:

By decent job, please explain to all of us what he has done that has been decent? Please pick one of the following "decent deeds" performed by Trump thus far and defend them:

1. Wasted considerable time trying to steal health care from 30 million Americans.
2. Failed three times to steal health care from 30 million Americans.
3. Lowered taxes for the wealthiest 1% while gutting and raising taxes for the Middle Class.
4. Attempted to bring wholesale discrimination to the military by banning Trans people.
5. Failed to bring wholesale discrimination to the military when this was overturned.
6. Played more golf one one year than Obama did in 8. As a reminder, he publicly criticized Obama for this.
7. Failed to release his tax returns after promising repeatedly to release his tax returns.
8. Blamed Obama and Hillary for his failures.
9. Caused a government shut-down. As a reminder, he previously stated publicly that when the government shuts down, the President (then Obama) is totally to blame.
10. Still at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. GITMO still open.
11. Regularly embarrassed the United States on the world stage.
12. Pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord, a move which accomplished nothing but making the US look moronic.
13. Every single person he's appointed to a government position has been ill-suited for the position, hostile to the department he put them in, or frankly incompetent.
14. He's WAY behind on actually filling government seats.
15. Mocked veterans.
16. Started a war of Republicans vs Law Enforcement, particularly against the FBI and CIA.
17. Signed more Executive Orders than pretty much any other President. Reminder: Mocked and criticized Obama for signing Executive Orders.
18. Regularly added fuel to the fire that he and his Administration are under the ownership of Russia.
19. Led an assault on America's national parks and natural resources.
20. Supported Nazis.

I'll stop there. Anyone else want to add "good deed" summaries I missed?


21. Bombed a Syrian air field when he ran on a campaign of non intervention
22. His "fire and fury" comments towards North Korea and repeated threats of war, after he ran on a campaign of non-intervention. This also includes his idiotic "rocket man" comments that he made at the United Nations.
23. Repeated threats to terminate the Iran nuclear deal
24. Pardoned Joe Arpaio, a man who had been found repeatedly to have violated prisoners constitutional rights, engaged in racial profiling, and ran prisons in a way that has been compared to "concentration camps."
25. Supported Roy Moore, a man who is a known pedophile, in the race for the Alabama Senate seat.
26. Has encouraged the police to use violence against suspects
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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:09 pm 
 

27. Threatened to start riots in Cleveland during the RNC
28. "John McCain is a war hero because he was captured, I like people who weren't captured"
29. Supports an online sales tax while boasting about "tax cuts"
30. Re-enacted the FISA bill to continue to allow intelligence agencies to spy on Americans without a warrant

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:07 pm 
 

Nagilum1984 wrote:
AboveTheThrone wrote:
Here is Richard Spencer getting punched in the face. Enjoy.
Youtube: show

So you think it's totally fine to use violence against people you disagree with? Nice..

Nazis stand for violence against people based on their skin colour. So yes, they do deserve everything bad that ever happens to them. I shed no tears whatsoever whenever a Nazi gets locked in jail, beaten to a pulp, or killed. Fuck each and every single one of them. I hope they all lead miserable, worthless lives until their last disgusting breath.
Nagilum1984 wrote:
Its time that someone defends Trump, I see. Can't let this turn into an echochamber. I think he has done a quite descent job. Mostly because he doesn't care about political correctness and he is building the wall, hence trying to actually do something with the immigration problem.

Yes he isn't perfect. He clearly isn't a rhetorical genius and he has adapted too much to the mainstream Republican narrative, but he is the best option and I surely hope we will get our Trumps here in Europe.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised that a Trump supporter would defend Nazis. We've seen that time and time again.

Damn, I miss the times when everyone could universally agree that Nazis were bad, regardless of political allegiance.
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awheio
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:30 pm 
 

Righteous indignation, pro-violence, revenge fetishism... The impulse to revenge is literally a result of weakness and confusion.

If someone is a Nazi/Nazi sympathizer, they are a confused, weak person trying to feel tough. But if someone doesn't have compassion for the fact that these people are suffering under their weakness and confusion, they too are manifesting weakness and confusion. It is super gross to wish to add senseless suffering to the world. You should hope that Nazis can find repentance, understanding, and peace.

I dunno. A lot could be said here, but I doubt many people would care to hear a reasoned argument about it. But when you relish in thoughts of other humans suffering, you are just a Nazi with a different ideology. Every Nazi, every racist, has a story that led them to be the way they are. It is highly unfortunate, but you shouldn't relish in taking vengeance on someone who was born into a life that brought them into evil. Have some humility. Have some compassion. Have some understanding.

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:42 pm 
 

I'm willing to hear out any Nazis who renounce their views and work toward repentance, but those seem to be one in a million. "Some men you just can't reach."
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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:47 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I'm willing to hear out any Nazis who renounce their views and work toward repentance, but those seem to be one in a million. "Some men you just can't reach."

Most people aren't actually trying to reach them. That's part of the issue. All wishing ill upon them does is fuel them more into the "us vs them" mentality.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm 
 

awheio wrote:
Righteous indignation, pro-violence, revenge fetishism... The impulse to revenge is literally a result of weakness and confusion.

If someone is a Nazi/Nazi sympathizer, they are a confused, weak person trying to feel tough. But if someone doesn't have compassion for the fact that these people are suffering under their weakness and confusion, they too are manifesting weakness and confusion. It is super gross to wish to add senseless suffering to the world. You should hope that Nazis can find repentance, understanding, and peace.

I dunno. A lot could be said here, but I doubt many people would care to hear a reasoned argument about it. But when you relish in thoughts of other humans suffering, you are just a Nazi with a different ideology. Every Nazi, every racist, has a story that led them to be the way they are. It is highly unfortunate, but you shouldn't relish in taking vengeance on someone who was born into a life that brought them into evil. Have some humility. Have some compassion. Have some understanding.

I'm sorry Gandhi, but my compassion and understanding are reserved for people who aren't, you know, fucking Nazis. Plenty of people with difficult lives out there who don't choose to blame their problems on other ethnic groups and decide that their systematic oppresion and/or extermination is the right thing to do.

Also, you can fuck off with comparing my hatred of Nazis to their vile, repugnant ideologies. I don't want to opress, torment and murder anyone because of what they were born as, they do. So fuck them. It's not my responsability to teach supposedly mature, sane adults that hating people based on their race, sexuality, or whatever is the wrong thing to do. That falls squarely on them.
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I'm willing to hear out any Nazis who renounce their views and work toward repentance, but those seem to be one in a million. "Some men you just can't reach."

If you're stupid enough to fall into that hole, then you're probably also too stupid to try and get out.
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awheio
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:16 pm 
 

We are born into environments. Our DNA and our environments determine who we become. Take any Nazi from the moment of their birth and replay the universe from that moment, and every time, they will turn into a Nazi. It's just causality. Hating a Nazi is also hating someone for what they were born as: a person who would inevitably become a Nazi. Hate the sin, not the sinner. It is a tragedy that anyone should become a Nazi. It is a tragedy that befalls the Nazi. It's cute that you admittedly withhold understanding. Indeed.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:42 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
If you're stupid enough to fall into that hole, then you're probably also too stupid to try and get out.

So what will we do with the stupids? :)
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:23 pm 
 

awheio wrote:
We are born into environments. Our DNA and our environments determine who we become. Take any Nazi from the moment of their birth and replay the universe from that moment, and every time, they will turn into a Nazi. It's just causality. Hating a Nazi is also hating someone for what they were born as: a person who would inevitably become a Nazi. Hate the sin, not the sinner. It is a tragedy that anyone should become a Nazi. It is a tragedy that befalls the Nazi. It's cute that you admittedly withhold understanding. Indeed.


It seems you're comparing German, 1930-40's Nazis and modern day Nazis, and I think both cases cannot be compared, the first were born in a scenario where they had little to no choice to live their lives otherwise; the latter are adults who willingly and freely choose to be racists. I do agree with you though that wishing ill on somebody because of their political stance (or any stance, for that matter) is wrong, but you also need to understand that some people just won't understand reasons, and their ideologies are harmful and dangerous to society.
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awheio
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:35 pm 
 

There are relevant differences between Nazi Germany Nazis and modern day so-called Nazis/Nazi sympathizers, etc. But if you look at these individuals who "willingly and freely choose to be racists", you will find again that from their birth they were locked into a causal trajectory that determined what they would become. They encountered bad influences, compromising circumstances... there is always an explanation for how we become what we are. If there weren't an explanation, then it would be truly random. And we can't be held accountable for truly random occurrences either. Either way, we are just locked into predetermination and/or randomness, and we can always give physical explanation for why we are what we are. Even modern day Nazis -- it's just the result of physical processes. To think otherwise would be magical thinking. And what, should we blame physics?

For what it's worth, it was this desire to call people evil and to vent our resentment on them that Nietzsche criticized in Christianity. That doesn't defend the criticism, but it does invite us to think about the extent to which we are just meekly mimicking Christian moralism.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:41 am 
 

awheio wrote:
We are born into environments. Our DNA and our environments determine who we become.

Well, actually, you're 50% wrong there. And only partially right on the other half, because...
awheio wrote:
Take any Nazi from the moment of their birth and replay the universe from that moment, and every time, they will turn into a Nazi. It's just causality.

...in life, you have these things called "choices". Plenty of times during my life, I've had the chance to do things that would've benefitted me at the cost of someone else, or that would've hurt another being for no good reason. Most of the time, I chose the harmless option, and I deeply regret the times I did otherwise. I'd take a wager and say it's the same case with you and most people in this board. This is called a "moral compass", something your average Nazi lacks.
awheio wrote:
Hating a Nazi is also hating someone for what they were born as: a person who would inevitably become a Nazi.

Now just give me a fucking break here :lol: So hating Nazis is now the same as being a racist cunt because of some bullshit made up fate stuff you pulled out of your ass? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can't make this shit up, I swear.
awheio wrote:
Hate the sin, not the sinner.

You can take your wishy washy, empty Christian rhetoric elsewhere. It's not gonna work here.
awheio wrote:
It is a tragedy that anyone should become a Nazi. It is a tragedy that befalls the Nazi.

A tragedy is something that happens to someone, with no choice in the matter whatsoever. No one ever wakes up one day and just goes "shit, I'm a Nazi now, how tragic!". That's a choice you make. I doubt any modern day Nazis had their own lives or those of their families threatened to join the group, as Thexhumed said. Those guys truly got a shit hand in life.
awheio wrote:
It's cute that you admittedly withhold understanding. Indeed.

Do not mistake my lack of sympathy for a lack of understanding. I perfectly comprehend how someone becomes a Nazi. I just think they're repellent idiots for doing so.
darkeningday wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
If you're stupid enough to fall into that hole, then you're probably also too stupid to try and get out.

So what will we do with the stupids? :)

I say supress them wherever they pop up. Their very ideology stands for violence and brutality against others, so they don't deserve any platforms where they can spout their crap. Don't humanize them, or empathize with them, or even debate them. Show them that their shit is unacceptable in a civilized world. And if instead of fizzling out they respond with genuine acts of bloodshed, then answer them in kind. I can't believe we're showing the slightest hint of pity for these people. It's not like they'd do otherwise for anyone if they could afford it.
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circleofdestruction
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:55 am 
 

I take it awheio doesn't believe in free will? I did read Sam Harris' book on that topic, but I am not convinced. For example, I feel like I choose not to be a Nazi. Certainly, circumstances shape an individual to some extent, but I still think you can choose to NOT be a Nazi, especially since we're not in 1940s Germany. (Hell, even during WWII, there were Germans who secretly were against Hitler!)

Also, there is the "paradox of tolerance" when it comes to Nazis. Being tolerant usually seems well and good, but to what extent should be tolerate intolerance?

I'm mostly convinced these people just have nothing of their own to be proud of, are full of hate and envy, and decide they want to be proud of what color their skin is and to pretend all other skin colors are inferior. I don't support literally punching Nazis, but I can understand the sentiment.

I keep seeing people (mainly elsewhere) saying Trump's doing a decent job. At what? Dividing the country? If there was a drinking game where you drank every time he demonized the other party, we'd all be dead of alcohol poisoning. Most other presidents leave that shit out after winning the election, so that they can attempt to be president of ALL Americans.

And I'm still also running into people who think trickle-down economics works, and that the poor are going to benefit greatly from the rich getting tax cuts.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:48 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
If you're stupid enough to fall into that hole, then you're probably also too stupid to try and get out.


This assumes that people cannot recognize their mistakes and learn from them. Or realize how they were manipulated.

Nazis work the exact same way as the Men's Rights movement, which is why they tend to share many of the same assholes. Essentially, they pretend to be an understanding shoulder, in the crudest sense, that "understands you, you poor, down-trodden, left-out white people" when everyone else is leaving you behind. They play a propaganda game of "we stand with you while everyone else is against you."

For instance, instead of saying "hey, look, we're getting more equality for women!" they spin it as "they're taking away your rights as a white male!" With, of course, slight nuanced differences from MRAs to Nazis. They also blame others for your mistakes, your failures, or your short-comings. You aren't failing to pay your debts, the crooked bank-owning Jews are ripping you off. You aren't having trouble finding a job, they just make it so minorities get picked over you because you're white.

Like religion, they target people who are beaten down, in a rough place, at their lowest point, and offer them strength, unity, and friendship. That is how these groups work. They target those living in darkness and offer a flashlight. And when life beats you down, people get desperate--they won't care who's offering that light, just so long as someone is.

This is why blanket cynicism towards Nazis, or MRAs, or losers, or Trump supporters simply does not work. If we continue to marginalize or target people for making these mistakes, they double-down. They feel they were right to side with the monsters who offered them faux friendship. This is exactly the playbook Trump used to get elected. He played on people's fears and pretended to be the friend of the Middle Class and the "downtrodden" and poor white people. He played the "us vs them" mentality, and Hillary failed to properly counter it. Trump painted a picture of an America that had abandoned "True (white) Americans." Hillary should have reminded them how great things were, played a similar friendship game, and not only offered them more, but reminded them how much better things had gotten.

Everyone goes through shit in their lives. And while risking a pseudo-intellectual hippie mantra here, compassion reaches people better than malice. No one is helping Nazis get free of their bullshit by pointing out their errors and forcing them to double-down on it. People reach extremes for extreme reasons, and another extreme is not necessarily going to free them of that, particularly when it feeds into the narrative the Nazis use: That it's "us vs them."

It's the mentality of Trump. The mentality of Hitler. The mentality of MRAs. The mentality of Nazis.

No, this doesn't work for everyone. No it is not a blanket solution. But people make mistakes. Everyone has believed something they regret believing or saying. Even rational people follow stupid ideas. Look at the otherwise rational and skeptics community, which has had it's own bullshit proponents as it was infested with MRA assholes and anti-feminists who couldn't handle women having equal rights. Are they beyond redemption? Can they not learn the difference?

I've been in those dark places. I've seen the draw. I used to believe in ridiculous ideas, which I now completely dismiss (I was a big UFO nut for a long time). I also used to consider myself more Republican--a political party I absolutely loathe now for their anti-science, anti-American, anti-humanist activities and focus.

If I can learn from my errors, mistakes, and wrongs, anyone can.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:36 pm 
 

Resident, you're clearly a very smart man and I have an appreciation for the depth your posts usually have, but I think we're just never gonna agree on this one. Where you see someone being manipulated and falling into the wrong crowd, I see a gullible, arrogant dimwit. Like circleofdestruction said, these people are basically just losers with nothing going for them save the priviliges their skin colour provides them, and they choose to use that as an excuse to attack people who have done them no harm. My heart is very hardened when it comes to their plights and problems, because victims only deserve pity until they become victimaries themselves.

You say you've been in very similar places in life as they have been, and yet here you are; not a Nazi. In fact, quite a reasonable fellow. Yes, people can learn and change, but not nearly as much as I'd like. Far too many of them are too idiotic or stubborn, clinging to their ridiculous ideas out of mere pride and fear. My country mirrors the USA in many ways, and after years of seeing similar things here, I've just given up on trying to educate people like this. Better focus on the newer generations, who aren't as down the drain as their predecessors.
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demonomania
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:26 pm 
 

The Allies pretty successfully helped the Nazis learn from their mistakes.
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AddWittyUsername
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:14 pm 
 

People can learn and change, but barring circumstances that force a realization on them (and even then, many, many people are capable to hold onto beliefs even in the full view of reality showing those views cannot be right), it takes a certain willingness to learn and change or at least a willingness to be open to the possibility of changing one's mind.

When the belief in question is centered around a matter of identity and a superior/inferior division/us-versus-them mentality, it will by default consider the opinions of those "inferior" as inferior opinions. When it comes to people who are part of the "superior" group but who deny the superiority of said group, it becomes slightly harder to mesh with their worldview...so those people are not "real" [whites/men/Christians/whatever] or they're "brainwashed" by the inferior group(s) or they have "not yet realized" the truth or they are "being paid" to spout their opinion or whatever. Because then their opinions can be disregarded (they're not really the opinions of someone part of the superior group).

Groups centered around beliefs like that do not attract people who want to know fact; they attract people who want to know the Truth. They want to believe that they have a purpose; that there is a goal that unites them and all those like them; that there is a home and group that accepts them as they are; that an unwillingness to adapt to other people, an unwillingness to compromise in any form, an unwillingness to be open to the the fact they might be wrong is a strength not a weakness.

They're looking for a Truth and for an identity and sense of self.

Some may change. Some may learn. But they need to be willing, and a willingness to learn and change runs counter to the exact nature of those groups. Because opening yourself up to the possibility that your beliefs are wrong is opening yourself up to the fact your entire sense of self and identity may be built on quicksand and that the warm embrace you feel from being part of the group is in fact you sinking down to your neck into the sand, and--emotionally--that sense of identity and group is often the only thing they (feel they) have.

Yelling abuse at them or punching them in the face strengthens not weakens their belief they are the underdog that Deserves-with-capital-D to win the job and the prize and the girl, but are held back by the evil Others. It may be the eye-opening event to a small fraction of them; but it's an eye-closing event to a far larger portion; and those who were willing to maybe consider that they're not the victim are likely to see it as proof that in spite of their momentary doubts, they really are the victim after all. Worse, those that are not yet convinced but are leaning that way will see it as proof that the supremacists are right and they are being oppressed and harmed.

Calmly and rationally discussing things may reach the handful who are willing to open themselves up, but it does nothing for those that have their fingers stuck in their ears, their eyes willfully shut and that are loudly repeating "You're a lying liar who lies and I'm not listening" over your words. At best, you're talking to a wall. At worst, your words get twisted and turned around into "proof" that They are spreading propaganda (if you're part of the "inferior" group) or that They are brainwashing and/or paying people (if you're part of the "superior" group but don't share their beliefs).

Ignoring them means allowing them to spread their poison unhindered and to grow bolder. Even if suddenly the opposition they're facing falls away, that will not change their beliefs that they're Being Oppressed; because anything that goes wrong is the fault of Them, even if it's an accident or a natural disaster, and in the mean time they have an unhindered path to power.

I don't think there really is a solution, or at least, not for the majority of those that already fully embrace those beliefs.

What we can do, however, is try to ensure as few people as possible fall into those beliefs; and that is frankly speaking done neither by punching people in the face nor by ignoring the entire thing. (We've tried the latter. It's how we got into this situation to start with: by closing our eyes and believing that as long as we ignored it and gave as little attention as possible to fucking insane ideas like white supremacism and neo-nazism, it'd go away. After all, by countering their points all we'd do is give more attention to the existence of it, mainstream it as a viable belief and indirectly spread their poison for them. Except, it seems, we severely underestimated their ability to spread their poison themselves and allowed them to unseen grow to a far larger group than we'd believed possible)

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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:03 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Resident, you're clearly a very smart man and I have an appreciation for the depth your posts usually have, but I think we're just never gonna agree on this one. Where you see someone being manipulated and falling into the wrong crowd, I see a gullible, arrogant dimwit. Like circleofdestruction said, these people are basically just losers with nothing going for them save the priviliges their skin colour provides them, and they choose to use that as an excuse to attack people who have done them no harm. My heart is very hardened when it comes to their plights and problems, because victims only deserve pity until they become victimaries themselves.

You say you've been in very similar places in life as they have been, and yet here you are; not a Nazi. In fact, quite a reasonable fellow. Yes, people can learn and change, but not nearly as much as I'd like. Far too many of them are too idiotic or stubborn, clinging to their ridiculous ideas out of mere pride and fear. My country mirrors the USA in many ways, and after years of seeing similar things here, I've just given up on trying to educate people like this. Better focus on the newer generations, who aren't as down the drain as their predecessors.


I would not consider myself smart. Only that I try not to seem as dumb as I am. In general, I try to avoid extremes (which is probably ironic, listening to music generally defined as "extreme", but as with movies and video games, in music, I enjoy intensity), and think that considering people lost causes, of a sort, is ultimately counter-productive. If for no reason beyond, and I apologize for the cliche', that is what they do and I would prefer not to fall to that level.

Trump's defense that "they're fine people" is, of course, bullshit. Nazis are, by definition, just about the worst. As a whole, people who identify that way and get right in there are monsters. Richard Spencer is a monster. Roy Moore is a monster. Trump is a monster. But this is a movement, and even within movements, there are just people, as terrifying as that prospect may be. And people are fallible, easily broken things. I'm sure there were people conscripted into the Nazi army in WWII that weren't 100% on-board with that shit, but had really no other choice. And that was definitely a time when compassion was not going to put an end to the war.

Hell, one of the most notable Star Trek episodes, written by Harlan Ellison, The City on the Edge of Forever toyed with this exact mentality, where a pacifist movement in the United States not only kept us out of the war, but also left the county in a state to be steam-rolled by the Nazis. So, I'm also not going to say force isn't an option. It is clearly sometimes the only one.

People can't seem to avoid extremes right now, and I read a wonderful analysis/hypothesis about how Trump could lead dangerously to the Democrats and the left supporting their own Leftist version of him (rumors of Oprah running in 2020 already threaten to bring about this extreme). A horror show of believing we "need to combat extremes with extremes." When you fight fire with fire, you end up with a charred battlefield and little else. So, as much as I loathe Trump and how he scammed his way into the White House, I am equally annoyed by seeing people on the left adopt his mentality towards his voters and dwindling supporters. What are we going to accomplish here? Trump's support isn't dwindling because people are yelling at them, it's dwindling because people are realizing they were scammed. Arguments of "well what did you expect?" aside (people make mistakes, I'll leave it at that), he's hurting himself. Minds can be changed, and they do. Indeed, anyone unwilling to change their mind or accept that they were wrong is useless.

I have a go-to judgement on this: Stay away from people with "No Regrets" tattoos. That is a person proud of never learning from their mistakes.

This all noted, his support isn't dwindling fast enough, and seems to be, sadly, stabilizing. His "base" is doubling down. The Republican party itself is doubling down on him for some idiotic reason I cannot fathom.

Now, that all said (and I'm sure I'm missing something I intended to add, but this is getting long), I don't disagree with you that sometimes, unfortunately, we just need to wait for some generations to just fucking die off already so the rest of the world can move forward. And hey, why don't we all fucking remember this for when we get older, so then we are not part of the fucking problem. And maybe this is where our compassion needs to be--to make sure we are working toward a world where, no matter what, Nazis are not considered an attractive (for whatever reason) option. Where extremes are not the answer.

My thing, though, is that minds can be changed. Sure, not all, and sure, sometimes it seems like a lost cause, and sure, all-too-often, it seems that the good guys not only finish last, but are sometimes lucky to just be able to keep their salaried job while evil sits atop a golden toilet while they shit. Giving up on people was not, in my experience, a mentality of people on the left, or progressives. That is part of why people are against the death penalty, for instance, or 3-strikes style laws. Even when I was more of a conservative, I was under the impression that progressives were more understanding, more forgiving, and less inclined to consider other people in such black or white views. It is one of the things that has made it easier for me to accept my changing views.

/diatribe

Personal anecdote follows, you can skip it if you want. Personal anecdotes are not data.
Spoiler: show
I think I detailed this once, but eh, once more won't hurt.

During my mid-20's, my life was trainwreck after trainwreck, mistake after mistake, failure after failure on top of failure. I was buried beneath failed relationships, an unplanned pregnancy, a poorly-planned marriage (to someone other than my son's mother), crippling debt, endless fighting, dropping out of school (was working towards a Bachelor's after getting my 2nd Associate's), failure to secure a job in my fields, dead-end jobs, depression, anger, and a general feeling that I was never not going to be a failure.

When trying to find help to straighten out my life concerning my son--his mother and I hated each other for years and fought constantly, also the child support was crippling on top of my crippling debt--I encountered extremes. I was living an extreme as one of life's ultimate failures, and while looking for help, I ran into the proto-form of modern MRAs. At first, I thought they might offer help, but there was a lot of toxic terminology in their language. It made me uncomfortable, and some of these guys spoke in ways that seemed counter-productive.

I could understand why fathers abducted their own children and ran away. The options were against them, the government was against them, the family court system was a one-sided horror show (things have improved since then), and it left me feeling totally powerless.

I had a friend at the time that was fond of Nazi stuff (he listened to a lot of NSBM, and actually posted on here very briefly), and among that world, you run into a lot of the "blame the other people for our problems." Whites have it tougher, men are discriminated against, etc. I experienced the latter, at least, in the family court system. Things were so bad, I was desperate to feel like there was some control. I didn't get too much compassion. My mom even once made a completely useless comment about how I just shouldn't have had a kid if I didn't want these problems. That enraged me to no end and it still irks me now, thinking about it. What a fucking worthless thing to say. Thanks Captain Hindsight.

I can't say for sure why I didn't fall more completely into these extremes. I had a bunch of NSBM music in my library, but never really cared for it. Last year, I realized some was still there and deleted it, not wanting people to even stumble upon that part of my life if they sifted through my music. I was ensconsed in hard-right and conservative bullshit. The left was part of the problem, they were ruining white people, executions were fine, global warming was bullshit, etc., etc.

I try not to blame others for my problems--and in defense of myself and my son's mother, we got over our bullshit, I think, both realizing that we were in danger of fucking up an innocent child who neither asked to exist, nor deserved a life of watching his parents fighting. I hated watching my parents fight during the 7-year separation leading up to their divorce. (Prior to this, we worked together to put him up for adoption before he was born, but we both decided to keep him, and then the fighting started.) She and I raise him together. She killed the child support order, so my credit and life could improve, and we discuss everything about him. Last night, we attended his 8th grade band concert, she with her boyfriend, me with my girlfriend, and our son, a thus-far well-adjusted human being who picked the trumpet because he was lazy like his dad when it was time to pick instruments and that one looked easy.

I skirted extremes. I was very easily considered a Republican. I would watch shit like American History X and walk away having learned the wrong lesson. I watched Fight Club and instead of reading the parody and criticism of man-culture, I stupidly agreed with how they clung to MRA-style thinking. Life was a them vs me mentality, and I was always a victim. A loser. A nobody.

Now, I'm still a nobody, but eh, I'm less likely to be considered a straight loser (I hope). I turned things around (this is a story by itself), and over the years, I went from a staunch conservative (albeit, one who loathed Christianity the whole time, so figure that one out) to staunch Libertarian to a, I guess, a generally soft liberal. I don't want to get completely wrapped into something because I felt it was mistakes before. I dove headlong into my old love of skepticism and atheism and realized I couldn't hold certain views anymore along with these.

I went from a youth of making gay and racist jokes to having a best friend who is trans. I remember moments where people were less than compassionate to me, and how it made me double down, or just fall prey to raging anger and feeling worse. I also remember dating someone who I credit with being a large change in my life. An ex-girlfriend (one who I'd noted recently, as I discovered she died a year ago), was very liberal, very political, and very feminist. I went from "No-Bama" rhetoric to seeing him as one of our better presidents. I prefer stronger, adamant, feminist women, where I was threw around those slurs like Rush Limbaugh-style rhetoric.

My trans friend explains things with patience. My last two ex-girlfriend's were strong, liberal women who would call me on my bullshit. I started caring about the world my son would be growing up into. I can't say why or how my views changed. But I'd hate to have ever been considered a lost cause. No, I was not a full-blown Nazi. I never registered as a Republican or Libertarian. Maybe I wasn't fully into it. I made most of these mistakes in my 20's. I was young, and there was not enough time for me to become entrenched in my views. So that's a score to your point--I was a younger generation that had my mind changed. I even attended the (then) largest anti-war protest in Washington DC when I was in the military (I trained right outside DC).

I wasn't a lost cause, I hope. I hope no one saw me that way. I greatly appreciate the compassionate, stern, strong, and thoughtful people in my life. I am glad that I had the influences I had, despite my mistakes, failures, and regrets (of which, I have hundreds). At some point last year, an old problem nagged at me for a couple months. It ran through my head and bothered me. It was a piss-poor way I had spoken to a colleague in the military. Suffice to say, I had made crude comments to her years ago, thus killing our friendship. Last year, to clear this from my head, I sent her a random Facebook message and apologized to her for them--this was before the Weinstein fiasco, so it was not inspired by that. I kept it brief, said I shouldn't have said the things I said, had no excuse, and that I regretted damaging our friendship. I figured she ignored it. A week or two later, she messaged back, didn't remember details, only a general disgust and said she appreciated my message. I made no other comment after, for fear that I might try to make excuses for it. If I was able to learn from my mistakes, to hate myself enough for that and try to, if nothing else, just admit my error, then I think anyone can. I didn't deliver her a lengthy non-apology diatribe like Louis C.K. did, and I didn't try to make excuses. No one pressured me to this, it was my own self-loathing. I spent literal months with this coming back into my mind, goading me to say something. I'm not proud of that moment from the past, and it is really not part of my character. And it's not easy to admit, for that matter. I didn't tell my girlfriend at the time that I sent this message. I did tell my current one.

So, sorry about the length of this. I should really get back to work. But I just hate dealing with these DWG files, so I guess I was inspired. Progressives inspired me by not being extremists. I came to respect that and find that it appealed to me. I'd hate to see that level of compassion lost now that I finally found my way to it. Sure, some people are lost causes. But people also surprise us, sometimes. Oscar Schindler wasn't a lost cause, was he? Was he black or white, or did he reach that morally gray area where we can acknowledge his errors while praising his good deeds? Life isn't Star Wars, where the universe is entirely made of morally black or white characters except for Benicio Del Toro.

In my view, we should remember that, and not consider people lost causes. Neo-hippie bullshit aside. There are Nazis and there are people, and sometimes people get lost and need compassion to get out. And sometimes we need to wait for them to die so we can move forward. We are not all one or the other. That is how Trump thinks. And that is why Trumpism must be stopped. But not by using a different form of Trumpism, I hope.
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DrummingEdge133
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
 

That was an interesting personal anecdote, Resident_Hazard. It goes to show even people who seem very far off the path can still change their mind and come back to a more reasonable position. People like Matt Dillahunty give testament to this all the time--that people's minds can change and do all the time. The one thing that binds us all together regardless of our identity is that we are all humans that share a common core and experience, and can use reason and compassion to communicate with each other civilly.

We need so much more of that, now more than ever I think.

I find myself reading and listening a lot more to Republicans who have been lucidly and reasonably critical of the horrors of Trump and Trumpism. Jeff Flake gave a great speech on the floor of the Senate strongly criticizing Trump's horrendous "joke" that democrats who didn't applaud are treasonous. I probably disagree with Jeff Flake on many different things policy wise, but I can at least see that Jeff Flake can be reasonable, and can think for himself, and that's a positive.

I've been reading a lot more of Andrew Sullivan and David Frum recently too, since I feel their criticism of Trump is more potent due to them being lifelong (or mostly lifelong) conservatives/republicans. What they are saying cannot be construed as partisan, and that counts for something too. I hope one day Republicans can return to a more sane form of themselves, but I'm skeptical.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:22 pm 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
People like Matt Dillahunty give testament to this all the time--that people's minds can change and do all the time. The one thing that binds us all together regardless of our identity is that we are all humans that share a common core and experience, and can use reason and compassion to communicate with each other civilly.



I'm not big on the idea of having people we worship like heroes, because it is a recipe for trouble should that fallible person make a mistake that damages them or their message. However, Matt Dillahunty is one person that I can barely help but put on that pedestal. He's a brilliant thinker and speaker, he expresses rational discourse with strength and attitude, but always remains rational. He's been very influential on my thinking and reasoning, and even arguing, in recent years. He's a hallmark example of being able to change your mind when presented with the facts.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:56 pm 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
I find myself reading and listening a lot more to Republicans who have been lucidly and reasonably critical of the horrors of Trump and Trumpism. Jeff Flake gave a great speech on the floor of the Senate strongly criticizing Trump's horrendous "joke" that democrats who didn't applaud are treasonous. I probably disagree with Jeff Flake on many different things policy wise, but I can at least see that Jeff Flake can be reasonable, and can think for himself, and that's a positive.

I've been reading a lot more of Andrew Sullivan and David Frum recently too, since I feel their criticism of Trump is more potent due to them being lifelong (or mostly lifelong) conservatives/republicans. What they are saying cannot be construed as partisan, and that counts for something too. I hope one day Republicans can return to a more sane form of themselves, but I'm skeptical.


I'm not going to specifically say that these particular people you've cited are the best at Trump criticism, but it's definitely been my experience that the most intellectually rigorous criticism of Trump has either been from a) Republicans who are either still principled or are drifting from/have left a party that's alienated them, or b) politically homeless people who don't feel at home in either party. Also natsec people, but that's a special class, who by virtue of their careers have very particular problems with this very Kremlin-friendly president.
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caspian
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:27 am 
 

It's hard to be all that sympathetic/give those "renegade" republicans much of a break when they basically still vote for Trump every chance they get.. don't fall for obvious PR moves.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:53 am 
 

Oh I don't really care about his critics in Congress at this point, for precisely that reason. I was referring more to those not currently working for Congress.
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On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:42 am 
 

caspian wrote:
It's hard to be all that sympathetic/give those "renegade" republicans much of a break when they basically still vote for Trump every chance they get.. don't fall for obvious PR moves.


I'm seeing a few too many depressing articles about how the Republican party has become the party of Trump. Which basically means the Republican party is entirely garbage.

They knew when to cut ties to Nixon, but they can't seem to grasp that it's time to do that for Trump.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:22 pm 
 

It's a different party now, though. Nixon's GOP still had Rockefeller Republicans in its midst, Trump's GOP is comprised of Reaganite chickenhawks.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:44 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
It's a different party now, though. Nixon's GOP still had Rockefeller Republicans in its midst, Trump's GOP is comprised of Reaganite chickenhawks.



Speaking of the chickenhawk, Military Times did an informal poll, and of 51,000 votes, the overwhelming majority were against Trump's excessive ego-boosting plan for a military parade.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:44 pm 
 

If he does a military ego-boosting parade... will that finally be the moment where Americans realize, "hey, look, fascism!"

Will this be the "...Are we the baddies?" moment?

One can only hope!

Spoiler: show
nah it still won't


caspian wrote:
It's hard to be all that sympathetic/give those "renegade" republicans much of a break when they basically still vote for Trump every chance they get.. don't fall for obvious PR moves.

Agreed (for once).

Moreover, a lot of those critics just have a problem with his tone or how much of an embarrassment he is. Policy-wise they wouldn't be much better.
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caspian
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:59 pm 
 

Yeah, it's a lot like people who are obsessed with getting rid of Trump (impeach!!! etc).

..Pence would probably be less embarrassing but have worse policies, will be a shittier human being in general, etc etc. That and the whole renegade republicans thing, yeah it's just cringy centrist neoliberalism at its' worst.
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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:29 pm 
 

I'm not against having a military parade if it's an occasion to honour and appreciate the nation's veterans. (Though there are already other days for that.) But I have very little confidence in Donald Trump planning something that's respectful, and not just a show-your-weapons dick-measuring contest against Fatboy Kim.
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Derigin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:06 pm 
 

Military parades are not that unusual in the world - a lot of progressive, modern countries do them, even just for show. The last time the US had one was in 1991. We've had a few up here, though they're not nearly as big and almost always for Remembrance Day ceremonies. The idea of a military parade isn't an alien, or even necessarily a bad idea, but in this case it's just narcissism. His administration will try to spin it as a celebration of a century from the end of WW1 - if they're smart - but really it's just to stroke his ego. That's not what military parades are for, and just goes to show that he's really no more than a manchild with a gun.
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