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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:11 pm 
 

Screw those lame USPM bands....even sacred cows like Jag Panzer can't cut it. They sound pretty, but have no edge.

You want the real shit.....

Sabaton
Paragon
Iron Savior
Rebellion
U.D.O.
Sinner (judgement day through there will be execution)
Wolf

Fat, crunchy, angry and catchy. No super high and happy vocals. Mid range and mid tempo with big choruses. Only these bands do it well. I've scoured the web for more but haven't found anything better.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35180
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:34 pm 
 

Some of those bands are good, really good even, but preferring Sabaton over Jag Panzer seems insane to me. The USPM bands have plenty of grit and muscle, they just don't have the super modern production jobs the bands you listed have.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:52 pm 
 

Yeah, USPM always has shit production. It kills them. I've heard every Jag Panzer album multiple times and can recall NO CHORUSES. Such a waste of a great band name.

When Sabaton drops a chorus like "I WAS CHOSEN BY HEAVEN! SAY MY NAME WHEN YOU PRAY" it is fucking ON. Keep it simple. Hit it hard. Big production, stomping tempos. Sabaton also has the most badass singer in the game. Udo and the Paragon guy would be next in line. And then maybe Pat from Iron Savior.

It's not a hard formula but it's like a 20:1 ratio of shitty power metal to the real good shit.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35180
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:03 pm 
 

It's not "shit" production, it's just from the 80s. And Sabaton basically has no substance or replay value. Some of their stuff can be fun but it's really pretty shallow and meaningless overall. Most of their stuff sounds the same and gets old after a while. Iron Savior and Paragon are good, sure, but I don't really see a reason to draw lines in the sand and say one group is shit and the other is awesome. I can remember pretty much every chorus on Ample Destruction and it's way more awesome than pretty much anything you listed...and this coming from someone who really likes Condition Red, Law of the Blade, The Black Flame, etc.

At the end of the day they're just different, there's really no point in making silly blanket statements like all of one group is crap, or whichever else. There are great bands from both groups and to dismiss one entirely just seems like a waste to me, but hey, whatever you want to do.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:45 pm 
 

Sabaton has no substance? They create amazing military atmospheres....like you are marching into victory with a machine gun. Way more atmosphere than underproduced 80s crap like Jag Panzer and Omen. They sound like an army marching. How can there be no substance when I get goosebumps every time I heard "THRUST INTO HOSTILE LAND TANKS LEADING THE WAY!!!!!!!!!"

80% of my jogging playlist is Sabaton and that hasn't changed since I discovered them.

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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:07 pm 
 

Sabaton is, at its core, overtly flashy, bad pop music on steroids. Their singer is also pretty crappy, with a range of half an octave and no versatility whatsoever :thumbsdown:

As Empyreal said, some of the bands you listed are actually very, very good but saying that there's no power metal with any merit beyond them is just ridiculous. And USPM "sounds pretty but has no edge"? Fuck's sake, you have it completely backwards. Bands like Omen, Liege Lord and Vicious Rumours are the epitome of edge in American heavy/power metal.

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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:37 pm 
 

I've been online looking for new metal music since 2000...I've downloaded all these albums several times over. I've tried. They're not memorable. If Sabaton is 'bad pop music' then so be it, because at least it's fucking memorable and sticks with you. I don't care if their riffs are simple and their songs follow a set formula. I also love AC/DC.

I live in the U.S. and will happily tell anyone we have never produced decent trad/power metal. That's something only Germany and Sweden seem good at. Every time I get into this debate I am subjected to Jag Panzer, Omen, Manilla Road (jesus christ don't even get me started on THEM), anything James Rivera has ever sung on, Omen, Cauldron Born, Eidolon (Canada, yeah, I know, whatever) and various other groups. The common theme being that none of them ever got more well known. It's because they cannot write songs. I don't care if its 8 minutes long.

America did do thrash better. America does have better americana/folk songwriters. They just can't do heavy power metal.

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Milo
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:56 pm
Posts: 459
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:46 pm 
 

Any slow paced USPM with catchy riffs? Something like:


Must have faster parts too. Doom metal influence is welcome, as long as it's classical doom (not "weird" stuff like drone, etc).
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35180
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:24 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
The common theme being that none of them ever got more well known. It's because they cannot write songs. I don't care if its 8 minutes long.


Ah the old 'more well known = better' thing...well it's not like I took your opinion seriously before, guess I won't start doing so now.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8854
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
Yeah, USPM always has shit production. It kills them. I've heard every Jag Panzer album multiple times and can recall NO CHORUSES. Such a waste of a great band name.

When Sabaton drops a chorus like "I WAS CHOSEN BY HEAVEN! SAY MY NAME WHEN YOU PRAY" it is fucking ON. Keep it simple. Hit it hard. Big production, stomping tempos. Sabaton also has the most badass singer in the game. Udo and the Paragon guy would be next in line. And then maybe Pat from Iron Savior.

It's not a hard formula but it's like a 20:1 ratio of shitty power metal to the real good shit.


Sabaton are total shite, you're a dork for liking them. 1980s production rules, you ain't harder than steel... fugg off with your shite trolling.
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Doomed Cowboy
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 8:21 pm
Posts: 209
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:50 pm 
 

He doesn't like Manilla Road, he's completely and totally not even worth arguing with.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm 
 

Trolling? Manila Road sounds like a joke band. The first time I heard them I thought someone was taking the piss. I couldn't believe it. All the message board hype.

80s production value does NOT rule. Give me Andy Sneap any fucking day. The last 2 Accept albums are sonically perfect.

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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:21 pm 
 

Waiting for ANA to lose his shit in 3..... 2..... 1.....

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35180
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:23 pm 
 

You don't have to like them, but I'll just say: not all music is like Sabaton and made for easy-on-the-ears exercise music. Some bands take longer to get into and are more rewarding for it. Like whatever you want but your tone just comes off like a gigantic douche.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4577
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:04 pm 
 

This guy. :lol:
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metroplex
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
Trolling? Manila Road sounds like a joke band. The first time I heard them I thought someone was taking the piss. I couldn't believe it. All the message board hype.

80s production value does NOT rule. Give me Andy Sneap any fucking day. The last 2 Accept albums are sonically perfect.


Have you listened Riot's "Thundersteel"? If you have and didn't like it then go check your ears, seriously.

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wildcard
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:23 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:40 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
Trolling? Manila Road sounds like a joke band. The first time I heard them I thought someone was taking the piss. I couldn't believe it. All the message board hype.

80s production value does NOT rule. Give me Andy Sneap any fucking day. The last 2 Accept albums are sonically perfect.


You know I don't post here hardly at all as I feel my taste in metal is not broad enough to add anything of any substance but I can safely say that I've read enough on here to know that you are one of the only folks who consider MR a joke band. Have you listened to Open the Gates of The Deluge? Nothing funny there just kick ass music. You dig Sabaton? That's fine doesn't mean bands like MR,Jag Panzer ,Omen or anything James Rivera has sung on isn't good as well. To each his own my friend

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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 2833
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:45 pm 
 

Ignore Exigence and his shitty trolling.

Two months from now will mark exactly a year from when that new Satan's Host album was supposed to come out. :fuck:
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Oblarg
Veteran

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2974
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:05 am 
 

Yeah, man, USPM has terrible choruses
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DoomMetalAlchemist
Veteran

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2860
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:17 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Some of those bands are good, really good even, but preferring Sabaton over Jag Panzer seems insane to me. The USPM bands have plenty of grit and muscle, they just don't have the super modern production jobs the bands you listed have.


To me, Sabaton has boring music, but I love their singer's voice.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11421
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:10 am 
 

Yeah, USPM sucks and Sabaton rule hard. Also not only is their singer objectively better than any USPM singer ever, he's also the coolest *looking* frontman ever in a metal band. I mean, look at this badass and tell me you don't want to participate in some heroic homosex with him:

Image

Seriously though, Exigence is sorta like heavymetalbackwards except not as funny and with worse taste.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 10821
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:19 am 
 

Just heard Sabaton for the first time just to see where this guy was coming from and yeesh the vocalist wasn't great.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8854
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:47 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Waiting for ANA to lose his shit in 3..... 2..... 1.....


Image

"What the fuck did you say about 1980s production!?!"
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35180
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:29 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Some of those bands are good, really good even, but preferring Sabaton over Jag Panzer seems insane to me. The USPM bands have plenty of grit and muscle, they just don't have the super modern production jobs the bands you listed have.


To me, Sabaton has boring music, but I love their singer's voice.


They have some good shit, but I don't think it's like the be-all end-all of metal or anything like the other guy was saying. I grew out of them pretty fast.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4577
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:44 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:


How did I not know Archetype! Cool.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:48 pm 
 

I do 95% of my metal listening while at the gym. So I need music cranked on headphones to block out the background noise of a treadmill or just people talking. Now I'm going off of mixed playlists and I need all those songs to have the same audio quality. 70s, 80s and 90s recordings all tend to have weaker guitar tones and TERRIBLE drums. I need those massive drum sounds, big guitars, big vocals and songs that get to the point. Fast.

You just can't go running to most 80s shit once you've got modern quality. Even stuff I love like Judas Priest is all fucked up and I have to fiddle with the volume mid-run because Ram It Down tracks are dumbed down and quiet if they show up in my playlist following "Battering Ram" by Iron Savior.

Sabaton is be all, end all. The perfect mix of everything.

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4577
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:35 pm 
 

I've got just the thing for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LTT0xwdfw
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Opus
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 4266
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
Now I'm going off of mixed playlists and I need all those songs to have the same audio quality. 70s, 80s and 90s recordings all tend to have weaker guitar tones and TERRIBLE drums. I need those massive drum sounds, big guitars, big vocals and songs that get to the point. Fast.


A LOT of overreactions in this discussion. But it sounds to me like you should be on an audio/hi-fi forum.
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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

Anyway...

There was a topic back in July, but it didn't seem to get much discussion. A new Scanner album is coming out fairly soon and they posted a rough mix of a song. It seems to lose the prog rockiness of their last album and focus more on the power/speed. It does sound a bit too derivative of their first two albums and I was spoiled by Coe. The "new" vocalist can sing, but doesn't have that frantic wailing he brought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4Bwcop ... e=youtu.be
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Opus
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 4266
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:56 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Oblarg wrote:

How did I not know Archetype! Cool.

Are you familiar with Ion Vein? I always felt they were in the same vein(!) as Archetype.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bFBYsXMd4s
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Zodijackyl
63 Axe Handles High

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7601
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:05 pm 
 

Speaking of Sabaton, I don't think I have ever listened through an album of theirs, just checked out some songs and never found much interesting. I do hear a lot about them though. Is my impression relatively accurate or have I heard a poor sampling of their music? Any one album that really defines the band?

I recall the band as having a locked-in rhythm section including the guitars that basically chugs but has no riffs, while focusing almost entirely on keyboard melodies, a sorta-gruff vocalist, and layered backing choruses that are somewhat percussive and seem more like speaking at the right pitch rather than singing.

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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:22 pm 
 

Sounds accurate to me! More bands like that please!

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The Animator
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 459
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:15 pm 
 

Ok, I haven't been able to get on the forum since Tuesday and it looks like while I was away someone asked for bands similar to Sabaton and it somehow regressed into a USPM is awsome, USPM sucks argument. So it looks like the thread got derailed and I didn't miss anything important.

Here Exigence:

GRAVE DIGGER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqp6z6vfHX8
HELKER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D674JznAYZA
Herman Frank:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCccSO33piA
Luca Turilli:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrmI6jP7QqA
Dark At Dawn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk6qdlZF6F4


Now can you all please end the USPM is awsome, USPM sucks crap, or take it somewhere appropriate like the metal discussion section.

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Aydross
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:21 pm
Posts: 552
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:29 pm 
 

I exercise listening to Stained Class tbh.
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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:24 pm 
 

My choice of music for exercise is Thergothon's Stream from the Heavens.

Thinking about it now though, that might explain why I weigh 600 pounds. Meh, music > health.
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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:34 pm 
 

Already listen to all those bands! Grave Digger is the best but only have 1 or 2 decent tracks per album. Despite the gruff vocals the melodies are still annoyingly upbeat.

Helker had potential but their singer's poor grasp of English ruin the lyrics and thus everything else.

Herman Frank's songs are boring.

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I_Am_Vengeance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:11 pm
Posts: 1923
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:54 pm 
 

Exigence wrote:
ruin the lyrics and thus everything else.


ahahahahah what?

You have shit taste.
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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:09 pm 
 

Bleh, Helker's best material is in Spanish anyway.





But yeah, what the hell?

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Spiner202
Veteran

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:30 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Speaking of Sabaton, I don't think I have ever listened through an album of theirs, just checked out some songs and never found much interesting. I do hear a lot about them though. Is my impression relatively accurate or have I heard a poor sampling of their music? Any one album that really defines the band?

I recall the band as having a locked-in rhythm section including the guitars that basically chugs but has no riffs, while focusing almost entirely on keyboard melodies, a sorta-gruff vocalist, and layered backing choruses that are somewhat percussive and seem more like speaking at the right pitch rather than singing.

That does describe them pretty well, but the songs are so catchy that the lack of riffs isn't a huge deal. I enjoy all of their albums in full, but they are definitely more of a song band. Maybe for a best album check out "The Art of War", as it has plenty of their best songs: "Ghost Division", "The Art of War", "Cliffs of Gallipoli", and "40:1".

As for the Sabaton vs. USPM discussion, I'd have to side with Sabaton. I like quite a few USPM bands, with Manilla Road and Omen probably topping the list, but Sabaton just write more enjoyable music for me. Manilla Road is great, but like most USPM, it takes a long time to get into, and even though I'd say "Crystal Logic" is one of my favourite records, it isn't as obvious or enjoyable as any of Sabaton's hits. This may have more to do with my general preference of the more melodic power metal than USPM though.

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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:32 pm 
 

Yeah what that dude said!

Years of hanging around online metal forums has made me bitter about all those acquired taste bands. When I was 15 I thought something was wrong and I just needed to keep listening. At 27 I'm happily content with not wasting time on music that doesn't grab me right away. It's like you have to solve a Hellraiser puzzle box in order to fully 'appreciate' some of these fucking groups. Music isn't like that. No matter what genre. And I won't feel guilty and force myself into trying to 'get' any of those bands.

I say this because as you can see in this thread....only like one reply sided with me. As is the case with most forums, the lesser known bands rally the most staunch support. And then if we are talking about famous bands with a lot of albums, it's always that 'not popular with the fans' album that gets the most lip service.

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