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Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)
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Author:  Deaderthebetter [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Youtube: show


From Monsters of Rock of course, though they had toured that year with Maiden, usually still opening at that point. Pretty amusing, I wonder what direction Guns N' Roses would have went in if they had fired this talentless hack after the first (admittedly amazing for a hard rock album with some traditional heavy metal influences) album. No surprise GNR went to shit after its first album with this Elton John fan boy. Nevertheless, very interesting interview, I'm not surprised they don't see eye to eye on music, they have nothing in common except enormous success.

Author:  Opus [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!

Author:  Deaderthebetter [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Opus wrote:
Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!


No, I don't like his music but I respect him I guess, sure. Axl Rose loves him though, although I think he said he hates gay people, go figure. I'm sure he can't have made "November Rain" any worse.

Author:  Oxenkiller [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

-"Izzy, were you goning to say something?"

-"no."

Ha ha, reminds me of those "Barry Gibb Talk Show" sketches on Saturday Night Live!

What he said I KIND of agree with, even though he was being disparaging. Guns N' Roses was about Rock N' Roll, Maiden is more pure heavy metal, completely different audiences, completely different approaches and philosophies. I remember seeing Guns N' Roses open for Maiden at the Shoreline (San Jose) in 1988. Guns N' Roses sucked, for the record; they sounded like crap and, I recall, spent a lot of time standing around on stage arguing about which songs to play.

Author:  Deaderthebetter [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Oxenkiller wrote:

Ha ha, reminds me of those "Barry Gibb Talk Show" sketches on Saturday Night Live!

What he said I KIND of agree with, even though he was being disparaging. Guns N' Roses was about Rock N' Roll, Maiden is more pure heavy metal, completely different audiences, completely different approaches and philosophies. I remember seeing Guns N' Roses open for Maiden at the Shoreline (San Jose) in 1988. Guns N' Roses sucked, for the record; they sounded like crap and, I recall, spent a lot of time standing around on stage arguing about which songs to play.


This is the only part I disagree with, Appetite For Destruction hit a niche in a lot of places as a great hard rock record (individual opinions may vary, you're entitled to feel that it's an overrated pile of crap) and it's not a surprise a traditional heavy metal band and a band that at the time was more leaning to hard rock (even traditional heavy metal in a few songs, though once again some people wouldn't put that label on even Appetite) than most of their later work would tour together. Both huge bands, GNR was a lot bigger unfortunately, but thankfully not anymore.

What I forgot to point out though and part of why I made this post, sounds like Izzy is trying to say something towards the end but Axl won't shut up so Izzy goes quiet and says he doesn't have anything to say to the interviewer. Since Axl said he hopes Maiden wasn't "catching," it'd be funny if Izzy was going to say he was influenced as a guitarist or a bass player in any way by Iron Maiden.

This brings me to my real point, I knew that Metallica-Skid Row-Guns N' Roses toured together but I had no idea this ever happened. I can't think of a metal band formed after the 80's that could be popular enough to not only be on a ticket with a rock band as popular as GNR was in the late 80's, but at some points headlining. Everything's underground now, which is just fine but can anyone see a new metal band breaking out like Iron Maiden (to name one of a small handful of bands in the traditional heavy metal style) did?

Author:  Twisted_Psychology [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Deaderthebetter wrote:
What I forgot to point out though and part of why I made this post, sounds like Izzy is trying to say something towards the end but Axl won't shut up so Izzy goes quiet and says he doesn't have anything to say to the interviewer. Since Axl said he hopes Maiden wasn't "catching," it'd be funny if Izzy was going to say he was influenced as a guitarist or a bass player in any way by Iron Maiden.


Considering how Slash was a pretty metal guy in the early days and Duff had his start in the Seattle punk scene, something like that honestly wouldn't surprise me.

As much as I want to blast Axl for being a musically ignorant douche, I think his comments here just come down to different tastes and comparing things that have nothing in common with one another. I don't think Iron Maiden has ever aspired to be anything but classic heavy metal and GNR has always been a rock band first and foremost. That said, Appetite is an amazing hard rock album and Axl is still a douche.

Author:  Conservationism [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Deaderthebetter wrote:
Guns N' Roses was about Rock N' Roll


This nails it. Guns and Roses was a huge hit because it was hard rock with heavy metal appeal, but basically just good stadium rock, no different than U2 or Midnight Oil or whatever other shit people were listening to back then. It's totally 80s: soaring choruses, verses that taper off, screaming guitars and a fey self-ironic tough guy pose.

A better comparison for Iron Maiden would be REM.

Author:  kalervon [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

I don't think GNR had heavy metal appeal then or ever.

What happened is - some bands who once played some music which was vaguely or strongly heavy metal eventually began to play more hard rock and got famous for their ballads. Mötley Crüe for instance.. GNR appealed to many MC fans, because GNR played the kind of hard rock and ballads which MC played in their mid-late years. Those who would think that "Dr. Feelgood" was metal would believe that GNR were metal. But they never were. It got to a point that even bands like Poison were featured in magazines with "Metal" in the title.

Author:  ENKC [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Opus wrote:
Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!

The dude appeared on a Saxon album, after all. A much maligned Saxon album that I still maintain was very good.

Author:  MrMcThrasher II [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Opus wrote:
Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!

I always saw him in the same way I did Billy Joel: when they sucked, they sucked BAD (songs like Uptown Girl and Crocodile Rock need to die in a fire). When they were good, they were good.

Author:  Conservationism [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

kalervon wrote:
I don't think GNR had heavy metal appeal then or ever.


I totally disagree. It was the one album you could find in just about everyone's possession at the end of the 1980s. Girls loved it too.

Author:  BastardHead [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

GNR has entry level metal appeal, but not if you're into extreme metal, obviously. Appetite for Destruction is one of those albums that EVERYBODY has at least heard (most of them own it, I'm no exception) if they're into any sort of heavier rock. Maiden and GNR are totally different audiences, but to say there's no crossover appeal at all when you're just starting out is pretty silly, especially with Appetite so frequently being mislabled as a heavy metal album by so many sources.

For what it's worth, I think Appetite for Destruction is the greatest hard rock album of all time.

Author:  MrMcThrasher II [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

kalervon wrote:
I don't think GNR had heavy metal appeal then or ever.

Absolutely untrue. According to my father, an young adult thrasher through the 80's, most people into heavy metal liked them.
I guess it might be an age thing though...

Author:  Riffs [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Yup, I'll join the chorus and also confirm most metal heads appreciated those goofs back then.

Author:  smokinchains [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

As a thrash dude back then, I can say that yes, GNR definitely appealed to metalheads. Appetite was a middle finger to the hair bands that were so popular, just kick-ass hard rock, songs about drugs, lots of swearing, no big hair (Except for the jungle video haha).

As I recall, the album was out for quite a while before it was popular, it was actually kind of underground for a year.

I can understand why someone younger would look at their body of work and not understand that (Metallica too).

Author:  gabber [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Opus wrote:
Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!


I fucking love Elton John. There. I said it. On a metal forum. My cred is destroyed but I feel liberated.

Author:  Conservationism [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

smokinchains wrote:
As a thrash dude back then, I can say that yes, GNR definitely appealed to metalheads. Appetite was a middle finger to the hair bands that were so popular, just kick-ass hard rock, songs about drugs, lots of swearing, no big hair (Except for the jungle video haha).

As I recall, the album was out for quite a while before it was popular, it was actually kind of underground for a year.


You know, that's a really good point. Appetite wasn't metal per se, but it was more metal than some of the real candy callboy metal. Wasn't Bon Jovi dominating the airwaves at that point?

I won't lie. I owned it. On cassette. I made a dub for the car that was back to back QR Operation Mindcrime and the Guns and Roses album. It was awesome.

I had other great dubs too, like a series of Slayer/Iron Maiden tapes and a whole bunch where I mixed up classic punk and DRI.

Author:  kalervon [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

smokinchains wrote:
As a thrash dude back then, I can say that yes, GNR definitely appealed to metalheads.
Non sequitur. As a thrash dude, you can only speak for yourself. Unless you mean, "as a thrash dude who hung out with other thrash dudes, I can say that yes GNR appealed to metalheads". I know a lot of stuff that appeals to metalheads; for instance, movies, food, etc. Doesn't mean those things have metal elements.
smokinchains wrote:
Appetite was a middle finger to the hair bands that were so popular, just kick-ass hard rock, songs about drugs, lots of swearing, no big hair (Except for the jungle video haha).
Swearing was a middle finger to other hair bands ? I guess that's why the PMRC formed in... 1985 (and Appetite came out in 1987). Def Leppard had drug references. As for words like "bitch", Whitesnake were doing it before GNR (and the "serpentine" innuendo is the reason for the name Whitesnake) and W.A.S.P. of course, with "Animal". Those were three hair bands by mid-late-80s (though I reckon WASP and early Def Lep had metal elements). No big hair ? "Big" wasn't the only hair characteristic of bands then. This: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictu ... s-34238483 is pretty early GNR and very girly.

Appetite was released on Geffen, so it was never underground. The band of course can be considered to have been underground before the Geffen deal, but I can't speak of their music then because it hasn't been released. What you mean is that it took a year for the band to become a household name. That much is true.

But even though I rectify some facts here, it's also the argument which I don't buy. Nirvana can more rightfully be seen as a (later) middle finger to the hair bands, yet, that doesn't put any metal elements in their music (I have a feeling someone will argue that they were metal..).
smokinchains wrote:
I can understand why someone younger would look at their body of work and not understand that (Metallica too).
I don't know what you mean by younger, but I was 12 when Appetite caught on. I also liked some of it. But I didn't, and still don't, see any metal elements in it (unless swearing and taking drugs "is" metal, then many hip hop bands are metal too).

I can't fathom anyone dumb enough to think that Metallica were never "metal". I don't believe such people exist, as much as one can hate Metallica from the 90s onward.

Author:  Deaderthebetter [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

kalervon wrote:
I can't fathom anyone dumb enough to think that Metallica were never "metal". I don't believe such people exist, as much as one can hate Metallica from the 90s onward.


Have you listened to St. Anger? Metal or not, there aren't even any guitar solos and the album is a joke, though I personally don't like Metallica that much, at least after "And Justice For All."

Author:  kalervon [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

You probably read "were ever", I wrote "were never". It was in reference to smokingchains' comment "I can understand why someone younger would look at their body of work and not understand that (Metallica too)."

Author:  soul_schizm [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

I guess, beyond the fact that he's trashing Maiden, I just don't know what the fuck he's getting at. Maiden is like a political organization, and their albums are like one big political statement, and yada yada. I never felt that, or got that, from being a Maiden fan.

I think he's just half wasted and talking out of his ass. Which is fine -- I don't really care.

Author:  IanThrash [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

kalervon wrote:
I don't know what you mean by younger, but I was 12 when Appetite caught on. I also liked some of it. But I didn't, and still don't, see any metal elements in it (unless swearing and taking drugs "is" metal, then many hip hop bands are metal too).


The thing with GNR is...they were vicious. They played dirty, they were like the street/bad ass version of all the glam bands, just like W.A.S.P . I heara lot of metal elements, its hard rock, of course it has metal elements. They were not a metal band, but come on...some of the riffing in My Michelle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZkU7SS24Ks) is plain heavy metal...fantastic song. AFD was THE hard rock album of the 80s.



Funny thing is they got really heavy in their late years (of the classic formation)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC9L-BZ1PI0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IamlIGPNCU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuhLVl5qf2A

Author:  ENKC [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

IanThrash wrote:
AFD was THE hard rock album of the 80s.

The late 80s, perhaps. I think the early 80s belongs to Back in Black.

Author:  kalervon [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Hanoï Rocks comes to mind when thinking of the non musical aspects of GNR, not WASP. However, on second thoughts I admit that the riff during the verses of Paradise City is 'zero the hero-esque'.

Author:  Conservationism [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

soul_schizm wrote:
Maiden is like a political organization, and their albums are like one big political statement, and yada yada.


I think he's onto something that happened starting during the Bruce years. In order to make their albums seem more "serious," Maiden tackled a series of "social topics" that ended up producing very trite and compliant opinions that attempted to make themselves more palatable through radicalization. Basically, it's a Bruce thing.

Author:  AlexMaiden [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Conservationism wrote:
I think he's onto something that happened starting during the Bruce years. In order to make their albums seem more "serious," Maiden tackled a series of "social topics" that ended up producing very trite and compliant opinions that attempted to make themselves more palatable through radicalization. Basically, it's a Bruce thing.


Can you basically name one song out of the 1982-1988 era (of which Axl seem to hint about) that deals with a "social topic"? As far as I recall, they start addressing this kind of stuff only with Fear Of The Dark (Be Quick Or Be Dead, for that matter).

Author:  Twisted_Psychology [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

AlexMaiden wrote:
Conservationism wrote:
I think he's onto something that happened starting during the Bruce years. In order to make their albums seem more "serious," Maiden tackled a series of "social topics" that ended up producing very trite and compliant opinions that attempted to make themselves more palatable through radicalization. Basically, it's a Bruce thing.


Can you basically name one song out of the 1982-1988 era (of which Axl seem to hint about) that deals with a "social topic"? As far as I recall, they start addressing this kind of stuff only with Fear Of The Dark (Be Quick Or Be Dead, for that matter).


No Prayer For The Dying seemed to be the kicker with stuff like Holy Smoke and Public Enema Number One. Unless he's making some kind of argument about Gangland, the "social topics" may have been outside of a musical context. I really wouldn't know either way.

Author:  AlexMaiden [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Twisted_Psychology wrote:

No Prayer For The Dying seemed to be the kicker with stuff like Holy Smoke and Public Enema Number One. Unless he's making some kind of argument about Gangland, the "social topics" may have been outside of a musical context. I really wouldn't know either way.


That's true, I was thinking too both at NPFTD and Gangland, but I wasn't that sure...

Sort of on topic, the definitive 80s hard rock album is AC/DC's Back In Black. G'n'R had a certain flavour back then, but I have never understood why some are labelling them as metal anyway.

Author:  Chaosmonger [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

He wasn't talking about political lyrics, he was talking about your band being LIKE a political organization and that they are coming from different places in regards to that. I get the impression he's referring to Gn'R being a 'dangerous' band with the sex, drugs and rock n' roll lifestyle whereas Maiden were more of a professional band that he may have seen as 'safe.'

Author:  Chaosmonger [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Basically it's the 'cool' down n' dirty rock n' roll band vs. the epic metal band with fantasy lyrics and operatic vocals going on, I think

Author:  soul_schizm [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Yeah, I think I know what he was trying to get at, but he fixed on the word "political" and I don't think that really applies -- so it's hard to be sure.

This interview is apparently from 1988, which was Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. Neither "No Prayer for the Dying" or "Fear of the Dark" were released yet. So he can't be referring to material on those CDs.

Author:  Conservationism [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

AlexMaiden wrote:
Can you basically name one song out of the 1982-1988 era (of which Axl seem to hint about) that deals with a "social topic"? As far as I recall, they start addressing this kind of stuff only with Fear Of The Dark (Be Quick Or Be Dead, for that matter).


Run to the Hills? Charlotte the Harlot?

Author:  kalervon [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

It's more of a punk thing; "we're young, we're innocent, we're pure.. those guys are "business", they have managers (like GNR didn't), they make money and they reinvest it instead of blowing it away, they get way too involved in perfecting their skills, etc."

Author:  AppleQueso [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Conservationism wrote:
AlexMaiden wrote:
Can you basically name one song out of the 1982-1988 era (of which Axl seem to hint about) that deals with a "social topic"? As far as I recall, they start addressing this kind of stuff only with Fear Of The Dark (Be Quick Or Be Dead, for that matter).


Run to the Hills? Charlotte the Harlot?


Calling "Run to the Hills" political is a bit of a stretch, I'd think.

Charlotte the Harlot predates Bruce.

Author:  Conservationism [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

You're right. "22 Acacia Avenue" is even more preachy, and that's the one I'm thinking of.

Author:  Deaderthebetter [ Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

Quote:
You're right. "22 Acacia Avenue" is even more preachy, and that's the one I'm thinking of.


22 Acacia Avenue may be a little preachy sure, but Iron Maiden screams about whatever the fuck it wants and I could see that rubbing a band like Guns N' Roses that cared only about Sex, Drugs, and Rock N' Roll the wrong way . However in terms of actual political lyrics Megadeth did (and still does) that far more.

If you don't like Iron Maiden because you feel they're preachy that's fine,
but Axl wrote a song where he states

"She's got eyes of the bluest skies
As if they thought of rain
I hate to look into those eyes
And see an ounce of pain"


If I recall correctly he beat this woman up on more than one occasion....

I'll stick with a very well-made 22 Acacia Avenue instead man...

Author:  Turner [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Opus wrote:
Are you hating on Elton John? You shouldn't do that!

I always saw him in the same way I did Billy Joel: when they sucked, they sucked BAD (songs like Uptown Girl and Crocodile Rock need to die in a fire). When they were good, they were good.


heh, i've always thought the same. for what it's worth, there's a billy joel song called "the downtown alexa" that i swear should be making top 10 of all time lists.

on-topic: axl didn't really say much there. he should've left it at "i don't like iron maiden" and not tried to sound smarter than he was/is. i'm a big gnr fan and really only a casual maiden fan at best, but it pains me to hear some smacked-out illiterate kid talk crap about a band that (to some extent) paved the way for their own success.

Author:  DaBuddha [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

I'm a big GnR fan myself, but I also like Maiden a helluva lot too. This is just Axl's opinion for the time. I think people forget that Guns were influenced in part by classic metal bands. Axl is a big fan of old Judas Priest and at least Slash and Steven Adler were jamming to Megadeth's first few albums and Slayer's old stuff back when the band was on the rise. They are metal fans, and you can hear it clearly in Appetite for Destruction. Listen to songs like You're Crazy, My Michelle, and even It's So Easy. Even the UYI albums had metal influence, and I'd go as far to say songs like Perfect Crime and Coma are metal.

Author:  Ancient_Mariner [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

My group of friends were all into Metallica and the thrash bands, but most seemed to love GNR too. I think around 87 the two albums we wore out the most were AFD and Ride the Lightning.

Personally I love G'N'R. Probably the last great mainstream hard rock band for me and the greatest debut album of all time. Too bad they couldn't maintain that power on later album.

Author:  LegendMaker [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Axl Rose on Iron Maiden (Donnington '88)

'Appetite for Destruction' is a fantastic hard/heavy album that I still enjoy a lot to this day (I first got into it in 1987, it was one of the very first "metal" bands I got into after AC/DC and just before Dio and Sabbath). It has loads of metal parts and metal influence, although I would generally agree it's more of a hard rock album than a heavy metal one.

Having said that, what does any of us care what kind of stupid, clueless bullshit Axl Rose said about Maiden in 1988, or about anything ever?

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