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SadisticGratification
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:35 pm 
 

May sound like a stupid question but please bear with me and I mean no offense to our Canadian brothers and sisters but is Canadian black metal considered USBM?

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:41 pm 
 

SadisticGratification wrote:
May sound like a stupid question but please bear with me and I mean no offense to our Canadian brothers and sisters but is Canadian black metal considered USBM?


It seems to me that what we've all learned from this thread is that there isn't really such a thing as "USBM'. There isn't a common sound/overarching theme that links these bands together. They just happen to hail from this diverse and populous country...

So no, I guess not. :P
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ThePoop
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:45 pm 
 

SadisticGratification wrote:
May sound like a stupid question but please bear with me and I mean no offense to our Canadian brothers and sisters but is Canadian black metal considered USBM?

Nah, they would not be considered part of USBM. For example, Quebec has a pretty lively black metal "scene" that is distinct from the sounds in the United States. However the US and Canada are neighbors afterall, and so a pretty big crossover in style and influence can be found between bands from both countries. Especially when it comes to anything labeled "Cascadian."
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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:53 pm 
 

SadisticGratification wrote:
May sound like a stupid question but please bear with me and I mean no offense to our Canadian brothers and sisters but is Canadian black metal considered USBM?

:ugh: Like Abom said, it's already a loose term and you want to include the thoroughly different scene of another country (yes, it's another country) in it? Canada's scene (especially Québec, the most important part) is a beast of its own.

I see the influence for Cascadia but not for the East Coast, The Poop. The fact many Québecois bands are rooted into nationalism and French heritage is probably the main reason but there's a real will from many bands to do something different.
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SadisticGratification
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:56 pm 
 

Thank you both for your answers, I would be a n00b when it comes to black metal and especially black metal from north America so I wasn't trying to be ignorant asking that. I do in fact know Canada is a different country :lol: the main reason I ask it is what Abominatrix alluded to, I get a sense that Canadian black metal is very strong and correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the band Weapon Canadian? because I think they're brilliant and reading some of the answers people seem to have a very low opinion of USBM.

EDIT: Thanks Metantoine for your answer, I didn't mean to say that Canada was part of the US hence why I made the remark "a stupid question"

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:02 pm 
 

Yeah, Quebec has a really strong scene with a lot of really great bands with a pretty distinct regional sound. Good stuff. The west coast has a lot of bands that are part of the Cascadian black metal scene, then you've got all of those bestial/war metal bands that tend to hail from the vast, empty interior. Of course there are other Canadian bands not related to these scenes with plenty of proper gems to be found as well.
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SadisticGratification
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:05 pm 
 

How would the sound differ from the European counterparts? Like I've mentioned I know incredibly little about black metal and often have tried to get into it but could not really get past the cliché bands like Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Darkthrone etc....

EDIT: by that I mean both Canadian and US bands.

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:08 pm 
 

I know you weren't, obviously. Weapon is from Alberta, yeah. English Canada is better known for its mix of black and death with bands like Adversarial and Antediluvian. But that's now off topic! Sadly, I don't really care about USBM at all outside of like GBK and Black Witchery.

The sound of these bands is gonna differ due to cultural differences, different influences, etc...like anything else?
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SadisticGratification
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:19 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
The sound of these bands is gonna differ due to cultural differences, different influences, etc...like anything else?


Hence why I said "how", and to keep it on topic I can narrow it down to just US based bands.

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KFD
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:41 pm 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:
Hell, even the Norwegian bands were pretty distinct. Seriously, what, exactly unites, say:
1. Burzum
2. Darkthrone
3. Mayhem
4. Immortal
5. Emperor
6. Ulver
7. Thorns

Besides nationality?


All these bands played a very similar type of black metal; they even shared musicians and riffs! Vikernes started playing with future Immortal members, then played the bass in Mayhem... Samoth played the bass in Burzum... Snorre Ruch played the guitar in Mayhem...

Without the vocals and production, you could easily confuse some riff from one of these bands with another, ie you could have trouble remembering which of these bands created the riff.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:07 pm 
 

KFD wrote:
AsinineUsername wrote:
Hell, even the Norwegian bands were pretty distinct. Seriously, what, exactly unites, say:
1. Burzum
2. Darkthrone
3. Mayhem
4. Immortal
5. Emperor
6. Ulver
7. Thorns

Besides nationality?


All these bands played a very similar type of black metal; they even shared musicians and riffs! Vikernes started playing with future Immortal members, then played the bass in Mayhem... Samoth played the bass in Burzum... Snorre Ruch played the guitar in Mayhem...

Without the vocals and production, you could easily confuse some riff from one of these bands with another, ie you could have trouble remembering which of these bands created the riff.


Those bands are very different from each other. Add to the list Enslaved, Borknagar, Satyricon, Arcturus, Fleurety, Dimmu Borgir, Dodheimsgard, Kampfar/Mock, among others and you'll see even more differences.

There has never been a unique or real 'norwegian' sound, that came way after when bands from the entire world were influenced by them and those influences were identified with Darkthrone, Emperor or Burzum as 'norwegian' black metal but there was never a 'scene' of similar sounds like the early Hellenic bm whose main bands had a similar atmosphere and musical approach.

(Snorre not only played guitar in Mayhem but he also contributed to write/arrange material from DMDS and recorded most of the riffs himself so it's more than justified their similarities - at least the Thorns demos to DMDS; Samoth played in Burzum but Varg wrote the material alone, as well as Samoth played with Gorgoroth and Arcturus but did 0% of songwriting there; Varg didn't write a single Mayhem song; Sverd played on Ulver's debut writing his own parts but that was hardly defining for Bergtatt as well the keys he played on The Shadowthrone were also written by him but the bulk of the material was already written).
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Back Stabbath
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:52 pm 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:
Back Stabbath wrote:
The music isn't overproduced, and considering most of the melodic crust stuff now has gone that way since Tragedy came along.


But Tragedy is good.


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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:00 pm 
 

That picture might actually be gayer than Manowar
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:09 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
There has never been a unique or real 'norwegian' sound, that came way after when bands from the entire world were influenced by them and those influences were identified with Darkthrone, Emperor or Burzum as 'norwegian' black metal but there was never a 'scene' of similar sounds like the early Hellenic bm whose main bands had a similar atmosphere and musical approach.


It depends what we mean by sound. If there's a feel to a group of bands it depends on the listener apprehending it. Lots of people have described Norwegian blackmetal as 'cold', 'frostbitten' or other sometimes rather silly adjectives. Whether that's because they know the band is from Norway or they are describing the feeling the music gives them is hard to tell. It's the same problem with USBM. Even if two bands play with different riffing style, melodic approach etc, that doesn't rule out other common features the listener hears. The difficult part is pointing them out. Have you ever been to an abstract art exhibition? Try and tell me what unites those works, it's very hard.

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controlledbleeding
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:26 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:30 pm 
 

I remember way back when I first heard Rise of the Imperial Hordes I thought that European BM destroys anything from the USBM scene... for me at least.

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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:24 pm 
 

But Tragedy is good.[/quote]

Image[/quote]


They're at least as good as His Hero Is Gone.

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KFD
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:50 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
There has never been a unique or real 'norwegian' sound, that came way after when bands from the entire world were influenced by them and those influences were identified with Darkthrone, Emperor or Burzum as 'norwegian' black metal but there was never a 'scene' of similar sounds like the early Hellenic bm whose main bands had a similar atmosphere and musical approach.


I strongly disagree. Each of the early Norwegian bands had its own identity, but they all shared common aesthetic and musical criteria, like old school Swedish death metal bands did a bit earlier.
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Thumbman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:13 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Yeah, Quebec has a really strong scene with a lot of really great bands with a pretty distinct regional sound. Good stuff.

Good stuff, indeed.

Well in general, American black metal tends to exists on a lower tier than their European counterparts, the outliers in USBM are really cool. Cobalt is my favorite, but I'll save you guys the rambling as I've already made my love for them quite clear. I do dig a lot of the Cascadian bands (although the sound is beginning to stagnate) and I will admit to liking WitTr, even if they have a lot of bullshit surrounding them. I dug Ludicra and I dig Vhol. There's a shit-ton of mediocre bands, but there are also a large handful of innovators and interesting bands. I will say that American DSBM is horrible though.
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ThePoop
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

I suppose I can understand the apologetic nature people around these parts seem to have when admitting to liking a band like Liturgy or Deafheaven (even though I enjoy the music by both of them, unapologetically), but I never did understand it for WITTR. Sure, Aaron can come of as a bit pretentious at times, but nowhere near the level of you know who. And I find it doesn't really carry over into the bands image or music. Frankly, I think they have released three extremely above average albums, and one masterpiece in Two Hunters.

Though USBM does probably have a disproportionate amount of mediocre bands compared to the ones of high quality, I tend to find that the black metal bands that have interested me the most in recent times either come from France, Germany or the United States. So there are definitely some innovative projects of extremely high quality coming out of USBM. And certainly at a more consistent pace in the last decade than *ahem* Norway or Sweden (this is all my opinion, obviously). To me, if bands like Weakling, Leviathan, Panopticon, Njiqahdda, Krallice, Falls of Rauros, Colbalt, Nachtmystium etc are all coming from the same country, it's pretty hard to say the black metal scene there is mediocre.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:51 pm 
 

KFD wrote:
Kveldulfr wrote:
There has never been a unique or real 'norwegian' sound, that came way after when bands from the entire world were influenced by them and those influences were identified with Darkthrone, Emperor or Burzum as 'norwegian' black metal but there was never a 'scene' of similar sounds like the early Hellenic bm whose main bands had a similar atmosphere and musical approach.


I strongly disagree. Each of the early Norwegian bands had its own identity, but they all shared common aesthetic and musical criteria, like old school Swedish death metal bands did a bit earlier.


The Swedish death metal was something very easy to discern cause it shared stylistic ventures, production, among other things, but the Norwegians don't share such elements. Emperor has nothing to do with Burzum, which has nothing on Satyricon, at all.

The 'cold' atmosphere wasn't exclusive of the Norwegians, Dissection, Dawn, Early/mid Marduk, Dark Funeral and even stuff like Sorhin and Arckanum also have a similar feel to the well known Norwegian acts. Let's not forget that Bathory was the most immediate influence of the Norge guys! Immortal's debut is pure Bathory worship with Samael-styled vocals, for example.
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~Guest 226319
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:02 pm 
 

Someone said it earlier: USBM isn't a scene, it's a bunch of disconnected bands from places hundreds or thousands of miles apart. I want USBM to be good, but on average, it's inferior to any of the major European producers of black metal: Germany, France, Finland, any Scandinavian country. Those being the main ones, it is a matter of taste if you like Portuguese/Spanish/Russian/Italian black metal as well or better or worse than USBM. Thems the breaks.

I say this as a disappointed black metal fanatic from the US.

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KFD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:10 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
Emperor has nothing to do with Burzum, which has nothing on Satyricon, at all.


Sorry but when I read this I cannot debate seriously with you. Have you listened to these bands' complete early discography? Don't you notice "shared stylistic ventures, production" and melodies?

On top of that, you mention Swedish bands who started as death metal acts, and then jumped in the black metal bandwagon from 1992 on - doing nothing more than copying the Norwegian tone. It's the Norwegian scene who reanimated the interest in early Bathory (1984-86), not Swedish counterparts.

That's the funniest part of the story: the Swedes had to copycat the Norwegians in order to re-discover the most important band from their own country!

There wasn't a single Swedish band who emulated early Bathory before 1992 (id est before Darkthrone started doing so, followed by Immortal, Emperor, Satyricon and many others) to my knowledge.

Swedish bands might be cool, but except Bathory, they were always followers of another scene!
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KFD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:20 pm 
 

The main riff from "Lost Wisdom" and "En ås i dype skogen" share the same melody. The first Satyricon demo sounds like a spin off from A Blaze in the Northern Sky. Ildjarn played the bass in early Emperor and Ihsahn sang on Ildjarn material.

Why am I wasting my time trying to prove something so obvious?

Without Norway, the Swedes would have completely forgotten early Bathory and kept on releasing old school and melodic death metal; there would never have been any black metal scene in the 90's at all!
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ThePoop
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:09 am 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Someone said it earlier: USBM isn't a scene, it's a bunch of disconnected bands from places hundreds or thousands of miles apart. I want USBM to be good, but on average, it's inferior to any of the major European producers of black metal: Germany, France, Finland, any Scandinavian country. Those being the main ones, it is a matter of taste if you like Portuguese/Spanish/Russian/Italian black metal as well or better or worse than USBM. Thems the breaks.

I say this as a disappointed black metal fanatic from the US.

Very true, USBM is not a "scene" by any means, it's just easier to refer to it that way in casual forum discussion rather than saying "the US really has a great bunch of black metal bands who are neither related in influence or style spanning the entirety of the country!"

But man, I gotta disagree that USBM is objectively inferior to Germany, France, or any Scandinavian country. In the last decade I'd say it's been much better than Norway and Sweden, maybe even Finland too. But hell, there's been SO many amazing projects to come out of each of those countries (hell, I'd throw Canada up there as well) that I really can't say any of them have been better than the others.

Just to clarify, I say all this in reference to more recent times. USBM pretty much sucked a hard one for awhile....
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HellishHound
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:17 am 
 

Seeing as I live in the U.S. I can't dismiss my own countries efforts in the black metal world. The U.S. has many great bands playing black metal. With bands like Absu, Inquisition, Judas Iscariot, Xasthur (Maybe not universally praised but still very noteworthy as is Leviathan), and many more. USBM can not be discounted. Many praise the burgeoning cascadian black metal scene, a scene I've yet to give a serious listening to but shall soon remedy. Though I agree with many here, the U.S. is too big and too diverse to be classified as one whole subgenre. For examply, in my area at one time their was a growing "Black Noise/Harsh Noise" scene, I had several friends in said scene, and still in said scene. A scene with obvious black metal influence, but completely different from the rest of the U.S.'s black metal. Certainly Nothing like cascadian black metal.

By the way I've been on vacation for the past week, I didn't wanna leave but I'm glad to be back and posting
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DaBuddha
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:02 am 
 

I remember when all the rage of the US "scene" was the bestial BM that ran rampant. Krieg, Demoncy, Thornspawn, Profanatica, Black Witchery, etc. Then we had the emergence of bands such as Xasthur, Leviathan, Draugar, and their like who got a lot of praise for the most part. Then so-called "Cascadian BM" became the new hype. While some of these bands are/were good, the truly elite and leading bands never could fit into one category. Bands like Judas Iscariot, Absu, Weakling, and Grand Belial's Key stood on their own to create music that, while taking influence from other bands, could be called original (yes, I'm calling Judas Iscariot original despite the obvious Darkthrone influence).

You also have to go scout out the various regional scenes to find bands that are doing the true innovations, bands that are unsigned and unknown. Sometimes this is where the true boundaries are being broken. The scene I am a part of has only a few BM bands, and I play in one of them, but things are being incorporated into the style that no one would have expected 10 years ago.

I'd venture to say that Inquisition is currently the most exciting black metal band from the US, or at least most exciting out of the known ones. Their albums have all been top notch and their live shows are an asbolute hellish onslaught. If any band deserves worldwide attention and a plethora of opportunities, it is them.
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Thumbman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:05 am 
 

ThePoop wrote:
I suppose I can understand the apologetic nature people around these parts seem to have when admitting to liking a band like Liturgy or Deafheaven

Although the dude is obviously a pretentious little twat, Liturgy aren't horrible, they're just straight up boring. I will unapologetically admit to liking Deafheaven, especially the sophomore, though.
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Veracs
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:16 am 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
ThePoop wrote:
I suppose I can understand the apologetic nature people around these parts seem to have when admitting to liking a band like Liturgy or Deafheaven

Although the dude is obviously a pretentious little twat, Liturgy aren't horrible, they're just straight up boring. I will unapologetically admit to liking Deafheaven, especially the sophomore, though.


He's pretentious for having the balls to admit that he isn't a member of the open-minded brigade like you, and saying that two shit bands are shit? Man you're a cool guy for calling him out on a matter of taste though! I unapologetically second his statement, inb4 rant defending two bands that are reviled even here.
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Foulchrist
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:20 am 
 

Veracs wrote:
He's pretentious for having the balls to admit that he isn't a member of the open-minded brigade like you, and saying that two shit bands are shit? Man you're a cool guy for calling him out on a matter of taste though! I unapologetically second his statement, inb4 rant defending two bands that are reviled even here.


inb4 someone else points out that he was referring to the guy from Liturgy. ;)

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Alsandair
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:39 am 
 

DaBuddha wrote:
I'd venture to say that Inquisition is currently the most exciting black metal band from the US, or at least most exciting out of the known ones. Their albums have all been top notch and their live shows are an asbolute hellish onslaught. If any band deserves worldwide attention and a plethora of opportunities, it is them.


Agreed! Though I still can't tell how appropriate it is to call them USBM. *fingers crossed*

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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:29 am 
 

Honestly, a lot of the Norwegian bands were hyped by the media, despite that there were bands & scenes who had a tradition of black metal (Sarcofago, for instance). That's why so many people, when they hear black metal think "Norway".

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jute
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:58 am 
 

Judas Iscariot is probably the black metal band I listen to most often. I see them labeled a Darkthrone clone but I think they drew from a far wider pool of influences - even a very early song like "The Cold Earth Slept Below" sounds nothing like Darkthrone.

As everyone else has said, USBM is not a unified style - the US is too big and the artists too isolated for stylistic convergence to occur. Instead you have individual artists pursuing their individual goals without much outside input. At best this produces acts like Judas Iscariot or Absu or Inquisition which possess unique and valuable approaches to the genre. At worst it produces bad material, but that exists everywhere and isn't worth worrying about.

And what about Havohej? I'll take Dethrone the Son of God over anything Emperor ever did.

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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:23 am 
 

KFD wrote:
The main riff from "Lost Wisdom" and "En ås i dype skogen" share the same melody. The first Satyricon demo sounds like a spin off from A Blaze in the Northern Sky. Ildjarn played the bass in early Emperor and Ihsahn sang on Ildjarn material.

Why am I wasting my time trying to prove something so obvious?

Without Norway, the Swedes would have completely forgotten early Bathory and kept on releasing old school and melodic death metal; there would never have been any black metal scene in the 90's at all!


In that very same way you can say that Ahriman and Infernus are brothers, since they have a very similar approach to riffing or Nodtveidt and Ihsahn were relatives as well, especially comparing the leads and the first 2 Dissection albums to Anthems and especially to IX Equilibrium.

In the very same way I can tell you that Ivar played with Gorgoroth and that band and Enslaved has nothing to do with each other; both Infernus and Grim were present in Borknagar's debut but that album doesn't sound like UTSOH at all. Snorre played guitars on Satyricon's The Age of Nero. Does that album sounds a bit like Thorns? Aldrahn was the vocalist on Old Man's Child's debut. Does that album sound like Dodheimgsgard or Thorns's full-lenght? Sverd used to play keys for Emperor in early days as a live session member and Samoth played on Constellation, does both bands - being both symphonic at the time - sound similar? I don't think so. Samoth also played on Gorgoroth's debut. Does that fact Emperor similar to Gorgoroth or Frost playing in Antichist/Ad Majorem made similar Satyricon and Gorgoroth somehow similar? it's a pretty useless argument to begin with.

I'm sorry, but the only things unified those norwegian bands were the quality of their different styles that spawned many classic releases in the same period of time, the collaborations as instrumentalists in some cases and the media attention, but there was no common sound and style at all among them. Not at least like Rotting Christ's Passage to Arcturo compared to Varathron's His Majesty/Walpurgisnacht and Necromantia's Scarlet Evil (add to the list Deviser's Unspeakable Cults and RC'S Triarchy if you want).
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:36 am 
 

I don't know, I think there is a significant similarity among of the original Norwegian bands, but only the crop that was directly inspired by Mayhem I suppose. I don't know enough about guitar playing to really describe the style that Thorns and Mayhem pioneered, but more obviously you get Satyricon's first and second albums sounding a lot liek both Darkthrone and Burzum (with added acoustic parts and so on), and even borrowing riffs directly from A Blaze in the Northern Sky on The Shadowthrone. I'm almost certain that IMmortal decided to start playign faster and more complex on Pure HOlocaust because of Emperor, and Darkthrone probably made Transilvanian Hunger as a direct response to Burzum's minimalist metal music.
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Necroticism174
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:37 pm 
 

So, going through this thread I see a few mentions of Weakling as a goos USBM band. Are you guys serious? They're some of the shittiest BM ever. TREMENDOUSLY dull.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:02 pm 
 

I never mentioned them, but I would do. I've enjoyed them ever since their rehearsal demo in the late 90s. Powerful stuff, if a bit long-winded at times. I would certainly consider Dead as Dreams to be a landmark release in the context of US black metal and a very good one besides.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:08 pm 
 

Yes, long-winded and their songs go nowhere at all :p It's black metal with all the life sapped out of it. All the everything sapped out of it. It merely exists. Every band that took influence from them is 100 times better. Except, Krallice, of course. Rubbish.
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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

ThePoop wrote:
But man, I gotta disagree that USBM is objectively inferior to Germany, France, or any Scandinavian country. In the last decade I'd say it's been much better than Norway and Sweden, maybe even Finland too. But hell, there's been SO many amazing projects to come out of each of those countries (hell, I'd throw Canada up there as well) that I really can't say any of them have been better than the others. Just to clarify, I say all this in reference to more recent times. USBM pretty much sucked a hard one for awhile....

Funny, I think the exact opposite is the case. A few years back, we had a lot of strong bands that have mostly tapered out and the new cascadian style has taken over, whereas a few years ago the european bands were still better on average, but have gradually improved over time and with the addition of new bands taking on the traditional black metal style. This is the case in all the countries I mentioned but Finland is definitely leading the way right now (France and Germany were leading the way a couple years ago). Guess it's because I think "generic" black metal like the US used to produce and Europe is producing now is "good" whereas I think the more "innovative" stuff that the US now has a big stake in "sucks". :P
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Seeing as I live in the U.S. I can't dismiss my own countries efforts in the black metal world. The U.S. has many great bands playing black metal. With bands like Absu, Inquisition, Judas Iscariot, Xasthur (Maybe not universally praised but still very noteworthy as is Leviathan), and many more. USBM can not be discounted.

I don't mean to discount it at all, actually, for my gripes I'm a big fan of a lot of USBM and hold the efforts of my most elite countrymen in high esteem. Judas Iscariot, Xasthur, Tjolgtjar, I Shalt Become, Black Funeral, Lunar Reign, Lycanthropy, Demoncy, Sapthuran, etc. Plenty of great USBM. That said USBM as a whole lags behind continental BM by a good margin.

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ThePoop
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm
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Location: America
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:31 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Yes, long-winded and their songs go nowhere at all :p It's black metal with all the life sapped out of it. All the everything sapped out of it. It merely exists. Every band that took influence from them is 100 times better. Except, Krallice, of course. Rubbish.

Dead as Dreams can certainly be an exhausting listen, but when it clicked with me, boy did it click. And as far as Krallice goes, their first album is brilliant. I listened to it on acid, and it literally brought tears to my eyes from the beauty. My only gripe is that the closer isn't quite as engaging as the 5 tracks before it. Nevertheless, I would easily put both those albums in the top ten black metal full lengths from America.
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hakarl
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:58 pm 
 

ThePoop wrote:
To me, if bands like Weakling, Leviathan, Panopticon, Njiqahdda, Krallice, Falls of Rauros, Colbalt, Nachtmystium etc are all coming from the same country, it's pretty hard to say the black metal scene there is mediocre.

I suppose you can call these bands innovative, but what they're really doing is branching out, rather than developing something from inside the genre's boundaries. In that sense, mentioning those bands doesn't really work well for your argument - what's the state of pure black metal coming from the United States? Much of it tends to be awfully derivate and uninteresting, or difficult to enjoy due to some strange aversion to writing enjoyable riffs, unfortunately.

I, as a black metal fan consider all of those to be at best mediocre bands, with the exception of Cobalt, which is fairly good. Some of them are outright terrible. There are good bands from the States as well, of course, but using only those bands as examples would be even more detrimental to your argument, from my perspective.
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