If we're talking about the state of "pure black metal" from the US, then yeah you're absolutely right. A lot of it is awful and derivative. But I find that to be the case for a good 80% of "pure black metal" post 2000 anyways.

No love for Leviathan though? Considering what I've read from you on these forums, I'm honestly not surprised you don't like any of those bands (which I, as a black metal fan, consider to be exceptional). Not that I'm trashing you or your taste at all man. I just knew by your track record that none of them would be up your alley. But I don't come across many black metal fans who find Leviathan to be anything less than pretty damn good. That does surprise me.

^ What he said. I also find Weakling to be really overrated, with their influence on subsequent USBM bands also largely overstated as well.

Edit: I meant Ilwhyan.

We might as well just call black metal from Europe EUBM is what I'm getting from this thread.

This basically encapsulates the major functional problem with US true black metal. Why this is the case? I don't know.

Yeah like Foulchrist pointed out I was talking about Professor Triple H and not ThePoop. Just out of curiosity, even if my post was meant exactly how you interpreted it, how would I be acting as part of the "open-minded brigade".

Don't care what the numerous detractors say, Weakling is pretty cool. Krallice never really clicked with me, always found them rather dull - perhaps acid really is the answer!

Haha, it certainly wouldn't hurt.

It's when you consume nothing but tacos and coffee all weekend, and then Monday morning "U Suddenly BM."

USBM is both

(a) Black metal from the United States

and

(b) A style of music similar to that from early United States attempts at black metal, which all sounded like punk bands trying to be black metal.

The golden exceptions are really personalitied bands like Demoncy, Profantica/Havohej, Averse Sefira, etc.

early US attempts? Mother fucker it don't get earlier than Judas Iscariot and Black Funeral...both are pretty not punk...

I do know Demoncy, Von, and Profanatica all formed earlier and/or had demos out before Judas Iscariot and Black Funeral, but that doesn't take anything away from those two bands output. I find Judas Iscariot to be quite original despite the early Darkthrone/Burzum influences which are definitely visible and Black Funeral's early material is some of the best USBM ever produced.

I like the song Fucking Your Ghost In Chains Of Ice (what a retarded song name), but nothing else I've heard, really. Some songs contain a small amount of good riffs, like Sardoniscorn, which starts with a good riff.

I used to be really into Lurker of Chalice, but not so much anymore. I rarely listen to it, but I appreciate it for the nostalgic value it has.

There re massive amounts of every enjoyable pure black metal releases even after the second wave. Admittedly the majority of it seems to be rehashed, though.

I'm not even sure how rated Weakling are and I haven't really heard any bands take after them, either. Judging by this thread not a lot of people here enjoy them. I do, however, and it's baffling how anyone could find the opening and closing tracks from that record to be dull or lifeless in any way. Funny that someone mentioned acid though...I think I had my first "magic mushroom" experience while listenign to Dead as Dreams!

Krallice is rubbish to me and although I found Cobalt interesting/enjoyable at Maryland Deathfest this year I don't think I'd ever listen to them at home...

I have no idea what 'Cascadian' black metal is, but Absu fucking KILL!

Thank you so much for mentioning them. Man, now I've got another album in that vein other than the latest effort of Summoning to get into...

In any case, I figured I should try and say something on the topic while I'm here. Personally, there's just one band from the US of A that I really enjoy, and which I come back to year after year. That is Negative Plane. The first time I heard "Et in Saecula Saeculorum" was an eye-opener... Haven't heard anything like it since, well I guess in some ways, but not delivered in THAT package. The only similar one I can come up with would perhaps be Katharsis (Ger).

NME can have an honorable mention as well.

Otherwise, I guess my major gripe is that the "scene" doesn't have a common aesthetic (as have been mentioned earlier in depth with more eloquent words than mine), most of the bands seem pretentious, artsy-fartsy or just bland. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh, I don't hate Weakling or anything, I do listen to that album from time to time and I enjoy it, but I've heard a lot of people talk about it like it's the pinnacle of USBM and sometimes of black metal in general. Anyway, I've also heard people say that Wolves in the Throne Room are nothing but a Weakling clone, that they basically capitalized on copying them and popularizing the sound, etc. and that the subsequent Cascadian sound that all owes some sort of debt to Wolves in the Throne Room's early releases is therefore really indebted to Dead as Dreams. I just don't really hear that much Weakling in WitTR at all to be honest.

Edit: Negative Plane are obnoxious as hell. I gave their album a spin due to the glowing reviews and cool aesthetic, expecting maybe some sort of American version of Cultes des Ghoules or something, but it was really awful stuff. Probably tied with Krallice for most annoying USBM band.

Looking over my collection I guess there aren't as many as I thought. There's a newcomer to the scene though called "Pact" their debut is really awesome and even original sounding, non USBM believers check them out. Sapthuran's last album "The Wanderer" was pretty good, rather minimal 1 man band, but his riffs are way to good to be overlooked or called a clone of anything IMO.

Some thoughts about other bands I saw mentioned in this thread: Kult ov Azazel, their earlier stuff was pretty awesome, but the last 2 full lengths weren't the most interesting. I liked the production of the new Demoncy album quite a bit, it was a solid album. Leviathan is good, but not always my preferred style. Weakling had one album 13 years ago, they're dead. I often wonder what Akhenaten of Judas Iscariot is up to, his last album was one of the all time greats and I wish he didn't disappear from existence.

I'm listening to this for the first time on youtube and enjoying it a fair bit. Joined in Darkness has always been a favourite of mine, but I seemed to just stop following them after that (judging by the reviews, I wasn't missing much with the album following it anyway).

Anyway, this one doesn't quite match JiD but it's still pretty cool, cheers for mentioning it!

Could you elaborate, perhaps? That's one of the albums I've thought of reviewing for several years now (Since I'm one of those fanboy reviewers), if I could only find the touch to write. I can see what there is to dislike, but it would be interesting to see it from the other perspective.
Can't compare them to Cultes des Ghoules either since it've been years since I last listened to them, must've been arround Häxan in 2008 last time.

P.S. You like Kriegsmaschine's "Altered States of Divinity", so whatever you say is fine with me. + I know you since I used to hang out here on the MA-boards a few years back, and I've always respected your opinion.

I didn't really like the production or vocal delivery at all, though I can get past those sorts of things in a lot of cases. Mainly, they just can't write a decent riff to save their souls and rely way too much on a really disjointed, ADHD sort of songwriting where no theme is ever allowed the space it needs to develop at all. Hah, funny thing, I was looking at their page just now and they actually have Cultes des Ghoules listed as their second most similar artist. In non-musical aspects, maybe, but the music was entirely too spastic and chaotic to even compare.

This pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter.

On top of that I heard plenty of punk in post Soulside Journey Darkthrone. Shadow of the Horns anyone???? Seriously punk, whether the youngsters care to realize it or not, was an important part of ALL black metal in its early days. Considering a good chunk of second wave Norse bands cited Bathory as a huge influence, and considering the fact Quorthon said many times he was personally into punk alot. Punk has its place in black metal, albeit in some cases more prominently than others.

Most USBM (in the 90's) was typically a generic version of Norse or German underground extreme music. Absu and to a lesser more primitive degree Bloodstorm were a pair who made it thru them times rockin. Black Funeral was always anal vomiting thru an amplifier. Havohej blows, Grand Belial's Key is pretty cool and effectively capture the spirit of black metal effectively. Profanitica sucks ass nuggets. Kult of Azazel is decent, but kinda boring after awhile. Theres more but no one seems to even approach Absu in sheer badassness as far as USBM is concerned.

Wind of the Black Mountains and Grand Belial's Key would like to have a word with you. Not to mention a handful of demo cassette bands who don't really matter, the said Darkthrone clones if you will.

Your opinions are cancerous.

Anywho, seriously underrated band right here:

Brown Jenkins - Dagonite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=LGZuRj4RqHw

Off topic, great album.

I have always appreciated USBM as a lot of the Black Metal bands I listen to are American. I don't think there is a unified scene in a typical sense of the word but the spread out scene they have is strong. A lot of the 'top' bands are primarily one man bands or have one main member; Leviathan, Lurker Of Chalice, Xasthur, Krieg, Judas Iscario. America has had a lot of exciting bands, regarding the 'Cascadian' scene I don't know a huge amount of these bands but do love Ash Borer, WITTR and Weakling.

I think a lot of the top USBM have been extremely innovative, more so than a lot of other 'scenes', but perhaps my view is skewed as a lot of bands I listen to either are USBM or influenced by them.

Although with all scenes their are many mediocre bands but this is not a trait of USBM as such but rather music in general.

JiD is my favorite USBM release of all time. It stands shoulder to shoulder with any classic from Europe. And the new one is devastating. It took awhile to click with me but now it is one of my favorite releases in many years.

So you can say, with a straight face, any of those other bands I mentioned are even in the same league as Absu? You might try to not bathing in the light of truth there kiddo, seems to be giving you skin cancer I guess. I heard hemp oil may help, but delusional belief that shit music is better than excellence doesn't.

^ I don't disagree. Absu are easily the best band out of the United States, there are no bands other than maybe GBK (a really distance second) who even come close to the band's songwriting, aggression, and artistic ability.

I think that's the point, though.

Norway: 5 million people, 25 brilliant black metal bands.

USA: 300 million people, 2-3 brilliant black metal bands.

Similarly, the USA produced many more brilliant death metal bands than Norway did.

I think a lot of it is a timing issue: the USA was busy with death metal, Norway had skipped a generation with that and instead put its energy into black metal.

The other part is lack of a native culture in the USA... "grim cheeseburger"

If you're judging Havohej by "Dethrone the Son of God", you really should listen to his later work. And people who dislike "Disgusting Blasphmies Against God", must not like dirty, disgusting black metal.

Absu is massively overrated, btw.

mfw

I might just have to channel my Indian blood and start NABM, Native American Black Metal First Album: "Cherokee Hunger" or "Under the Sign of the Tomahawk" haha

Ch'ya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=aKMwlE9OOvo

I always found the Profanatica/Masacre split did wonders for such people.

Oh I know the whole Black Twilight Circle groups focusing on their native american blood but they're hispanic. I was joking any way but now that I'm thinking about it, it would be cool to see an actual native american black metal group. Not the native central america (i.e. maya, etc.) themes like BTC.

Who is BTC?

What do you think of Ayasoltec?

Black twilight Circle, a black metal collective similar to LLN based in southern california. Most if not all are hispanic, but they like to focus on their native blood. And I haven't heard of Ayasoltec but I'll give it a shot!

DTSOG is just old Profanatica with even shittier production values. Kembatinan Premaster is like blackened noisegrind or something. Very cool.

These guys are criminally underrated: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Necrovore/9326

Ten reviews with an average of 90%, criminal.

Great band though.

Go ask your average BM fan about Necrovore and watch them scratch their heads.