National Socialism far left? I seriously think you have to re-evaluate what the left is and go out and read books so you don't think something that depends on a xenophobic priori is somehow compatible to ideologies that promote widespread communal harmony and human empathy (regardless of race, group etc.).
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(...) i read a lot of books about it, but i dont think this is right place for discussion about it I only can tell you that i live in a country that for 45 years was under occupation of such "communal harmony and human empathy" Never again....

there is no dominant ideaology in metal at all, I don't think; Metal IS it's own ideology, and is an apolitical one. Sure you have some individuals who might express political viewpoints but not many bands take a strictly political stance, that's more common with hardcore punk bands. In metal, you run the gamut from left wing guys like the Corrosion of Conformity and Napalm Death guys (who used to be hardcore punk) to libertarians (James Hetfield) to conservatives (Bruce Dickenson) to radical right wingers (Varg Vikerness) to CRAZY mentally unbalanced radical right wingers (Mustaine.)

On the contrary. When you throw such misconceptions around, we have to be able to discuss it so we can establish the same frame of reference. It doesn't matter if you think that National Socialism is far left, or a school of thought concerning llama grooming: the fact of the matter is that you're wrong.

Metal IS it's own ideology

I like the placement of Dave Mustaine as crazier than Varg.

It also depends of the style. Thrash is usually more lefty than, saying, black metal. Also, Burzum had nothing on politics nor satanism, but the man behind the band did. Don't mix the music/band with the musicians.

[It's easier to youngest to fall into the lefty speech: revolution, going against the ones who has more than you and take their belongings to share them among everyone, etc. It's a pretty empty and utopic philosophy, but it works cause it's popular and it takes the 'people's' name under its banner.

Just ask to any leftist 'what happens AFTER the revolution? the answer is the same shit they fought against.]

Even if Varg's views are more ridicolous, at least he holds his beliefs and doesn't compromitate himself. Unlike Mustaine. Talented musician aside, who can be more contemptable than a former drug junkie born again radical christian?

Whichever one is a psychopathic killer.

I've read very interesting comment recently.

" [Kreator is] Along with Sacred Reich the most overrated thrash metal band ever, hyped more for their left-wing politically tinged lyrics and beliefs. Don't believe me? Why was Benediction banned for years from Metal Maniacs magazine by its obnoxious leftist former editor Katherine Ludwig based simply on one of the members being anti-abortion, of course Slayer (see "Silent Scream") had no problems having articles and adverts printed being a major label act,[...] Mille sure hates America except our green dollars of course, Che Guevara wore a rolex and lived in Havana's most luxorious beach front mansion, too...I know the drill well. "

Besides the opinion about Kreator music, what do you think about that Benediction comment? Anyone heard something more about this situation with Metal Maniacs mag?

And looking deeper, is there something like "dominant" ideology in metal music?

Personally i dont know what to think about it. I think that most bands don't give a fuck about ideology in their lyrics. I don't think that tales about dragons, satan, demons, darkness, death can't be related to left wing or right wing politics, BUT, talking about my favourite thrash metal i must say that...

of course, there is a LOT of left-wing groups: Kreator is one of them, Sacred Reich was also veeeeery lefty, Atrophy, Nuclear Assault etc, all had left-leaning philosophies: pro-choice, anti-war, pro-socialist, pro-feminist and very environmentally-aware lyrics.

on the second hand: we have some "conservative", right wing groups - Iced Earth one of them, At War and strong christian thrash scene: Believer, Tourniquet, Deliverance, Vengeance Rising. Of course there is NSBM (but nazism for me is far LEFT ideology) and Rock Against Communism (which unfortunately generally means racism and nazism), but i think that group of right wing bands is smaller.

ok, what do you think about ideology, politics in music? What bands come to your mind when you think about left-wing and right-wing metal (especially thrash) groups? Do you think that there is something like oppression against bands which have "unpopular" beliefs in metal world (like Benediction)?

As far as debating whether nazism is right wing or left wing, that's pointless not only a metal forum, but in general. It's like a low way of discrediting a group by falsely associating a negative figure with them. "Look! Hitler was a socialist too!".

to clarify, when I meant that "metal is it's own ideology" I meant that most bands are/were inherantly apolitical, or at least had such widely differing philosophies (often between members of the same band,) that the focus was more on the music itself, the asthetics, composition and feel of it, and not on any particular political belief system. Basically the idea of keeping the beliefs of the musicians separate from the lyrical themes.

I think as most people age, their beliefs do not necessarily move more rightwards, but as people get a better understanding about how the world works and become less naieve and idealistic in their views, their outlook matures and they move toward the center, in other words. Obviously there are exceptions, like Mustaine. Mostly you see (for instance) anarcho-utopian socialists becoming mainstream liberals and those with facist/right wing viewpoints tempering them and becoming regular conservatives, as time goes by. Not always, obviously some people just become even nuttier.

It's hard to classify National Socialism as left or right wing. It has elements of both. The "Socialism" part implies left leaning philosophy, meaning, the government owns and directly controlls most industry and social services. But the "national" part of it implies a strict rigid social code of behavior, strong aggressive miltarist policy, and a xenophobic/racist element that seeks to strengthen and purify their own culture at the expense of all others- these are all elements of right wing governments. Which is it, it is it's own philosophy.

which is particularly pointless when you consider mao, stalin etc. - i mean, does one really need to try and shoehorn hitler in there as well when discrediting the far-left?

National Socialism far left?

I'd say political ideologies in metal are pretty much mixed, and I don't think there's one dominant ideology among metal. I know plenty of liberal hippies who are into metal as well as conservative gun nuts who also are into it.

I think it's safe to say that Christians are a very small minority of metal bands, though. I could be wrong though.

A side question, is Kreator the band that wrote a song that was something about anti-nazis or killing nazis or something like that?


Indeed it is. It's the opposite of the far right which is all about less government, freedom of individuals to run businesses how they like, less taxes, less government mandates/handouts, etc.

National Socialists weren't actually socialists. It was a name used to attract (and fool) voters.

Indeed it is. It's the opposite of the far right which is all about less government, freedom of individuals to run businesses how they like, less taxes, less government mandates/handouts, etc.

Left-right wing axis =/= capitalism-socialism axis. Please learn the difference before posting.

I wouldn't bother reading up on Euronymous anymore - his "love" of communism was mostly to do with how many people the regime killed. He was a just an edgy kid, really.

I tend to agree with most views held by black metal musicians.

Socialism and Communism are two words that mean exactly the same thing. The only reason the Nazis called themselves socialists is because they were against the Russians, but socialism as an idea is the same as communism, and communism is far left-wing, i.e. Stalin

I took the political compass test, and I ended up slightly left and slightly down. Perhaps other metalheads could take the test and post their results, to get a better idea of what ideology we are?

I tend to agree with most views held by black metal musicians.

Kreator

Sacred Reich

Benediction banned for years from Metal Maniacs magazine by its obnoxious leftist former editor Katherine Ludwig based simply on one of the members being anti-abortion

And looking deeper, is there something like "dominant" ideology in metal music?

Personally i dont know what to think about it. I think that most bands don't give a fuck about ideology in their lyrics. I don't think that tales about dragons, satan, demons, darkness, death can't be related to left wing or right wing politics, BUT, talking about my favourite thrash metal i must say that...

of course, there is a LOT of left-wing groups: Kreator is one of them, Sacred Reich was also veeeeery lefty, Atrophy, Nuclear Assault etc, all had left-leaning philosophies: pro-choice, anti-war, pro-socialist, pro-feminist and very environmentally-aware lyrics.

on the second hand: we have some "conservative", right wing groups - Iced Earth one of them, At War and strong christian thrash scene: Believer, Tourniquet, Deliverance, Vengeance Rising. Of course there is NSBM (but nazism for me is far LEFT ideology) and Rock Against Communism (which unfortunately generally means racism and nazism), but i think that group of right wing bands is smaller.

ok, what do you think about ideology, politics in music? What bands come to your mind when you think about left-wing and right-wing metal (especially thrash) groups? Do you think that there is something like oppression against bands which have "unpopular" beliefs in metal world (like Benediction)?