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gabber
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:29 pm 
 

Hi all,

Just wondering what happens when bands don't officially split but then don't put out any music for years and years. Two examples are Nocturnal Rites - last album in 2007, before that they had an album every two years or so. But then all of a sudden - nothing. Even their official website and Facebook page haven't had any new posts since a few about live shows back in 2013.

Chinchilla are another - almost an album a year and then since 2004 nothing. Their website even spoke about new material being recorded and how good it sounded but that's already 6 years ago or so.

Weird how some of these bands just kind of 'stop dead'. This is just two examples, there are, I'm sure, many more.

It's pretty apparent that due to online downloading and the profit margins involved with recorded material that it's not 'fashionable' to put out many albums. If you look at bands like Iron Maiden, Manowar, Rush etc (sorry just 3 that occurred to me), they were putting out an album every year. Manowar even managed 2 that were 7 months apart in 1984! And now there are often 5 year gaps for albums.

It makes you wonder if studio recordings will become obsolete one day - more money to be made with live shows and new material might be recorded live as an album and released as an album rather than going down the studio path.

I don't even know where I'm going with this post - just thinking aloud haha. But it's just something that has come to my attention more and more in recent years. The fact that bands seem reluctant almost to put albums out due to the gaps between them compared to the 80's.

What are your thoughts?
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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 458
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:01 pm 
 

Yeah, there's so many bands in that "not dead, but not alive" category. Heavenly, Savage Circus, Masterplan, Timeless Miracle. All of them existing only in the form of brief updates on Facebook.

Manowar will apparently be breaking up after a 2017 world tour (although there's a case to be made that the band was actually finished in the 90s). Maiden and Rush are still active, but what do they have left to prove at this point?

For the smaller bands: I think it's hard to pull the plug on something and admit that your dream is dead.

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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 3488
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:12 pm 
 

Think it's more a sign of creator/s not caring that their updates matter. Even some big name bands never update yet they tour and you're constantly left scratching your head - like do you fucking care about your fans? Most of the time I'm left asking people on MA if a band is active and there's sort of an insider knowledge with a lot of bands that I feel shouldn't exist. I shouldn't have to email a band to check if they're still active, nut up and say your band is done.

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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:22 pm 
 

Necrophagist is probably one of the winners of this phenomenon.

There could be a lot of reasons why a band doesn't come out and say they are finished, but one that seems important is that a band member might not want it to be done, despite the obstacles in the way (friendships, money, time, etc.). Perhaps they hope that the band can regroup and put something new out, and then all of a sudden it's been ten years and the dream has died.
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traxan
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 pm
Posts: 716
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:43 pm 
 

Shadow of Japan fit that bill. Awesome melo death band, a better In Flames than In Flames were. They put out a brilliant debut in 2001 then went silent. Shocked me with a 2008 release, but no touring or anything. They just faded out. What a shame.

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Dembo
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Location: Crippling Velocity
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:49 pm 
 

I have a feeling we to some degree are influenced by our habit of seeing a bands status on this site as either active, split-up, on hold, etc. Whereas outside of info-collecting sites like this, people don't necessarily think in terms of a status like that. I can imagine artists simply seeing it like "when we're making music or playing live, we're active, and when not, we're inactive", rather than the project being a matter of a clear-cut status change of activation/deactivation like a contract at a workplace or something.

And frankly, outside the purpose of info-collecting nerd communities like this one we're part of, I don't see the need for a band to communicate such a change of status other than if they are famous enough to get frequently asked about possible future albums/tours and want to avoid that by making it clear that they are split-up/on hold or so.

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OzzyApu
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Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:01 pm 
 

Rapture from Finland. 3 great albums in nice 3 year intervals and then a lingering death. 12 years already, wow. I remember a time when it was only 1 year ago when Silent Stage was released.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:10 pm 
 

Dembo wrote:
And frankly, outside the purpose of info-collecting nerd communities like this one we're part of, I don't see the need for a band to communicate such a change of status other than if they are famous enough to get frequently asked about possible future albums/tours and want to avoid that by making it clear that they are split-up/on hold or so.
So hypothetically a fan dreams of seeing his/her favourite band live or hearing new music, it's perfectly fine for that band to not say anything ever if they're not famous enough? Yeah, you're a moron.

And it's not entitlement either, it's called being considerate to the people who have supported you and offering an update. If you're a callous selfish arsehole I can totally see how Dembo's point would work. I don't see the need to offer an update, what a pompous dickish statement.

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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:18 pm 
 

as if musicians were obliged to communicate to some strangers about a part of their life. maybe they don't care, maybe they don't use the internet, maybe they hate their band and their previous work, maybe they don't know themselves or disagree with each other - there's tons of reasons why bands don't split up "officially". most likely they don't want or don't care to tell you.

and the connection the OP makes between bands stopping dead and decreased record sales or the decline of the music industry or whatever seems totally random to me. fewer maiden albums is more likely due to them getting older. I don't know where you were going with that post either.
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soulonfire
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 1:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:20 pm 
 

MikeyC wrote:
Necrophagist is probably one of the winners of this phenomenon.


They're in a three way tie with Angel Dust and Thorns.
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Dembo
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:21 pm 
 

Neither a communication of a split-up nor the absence of it rules out that dream comming true, since also come-backs occur. I've dreamt of seeing bands throughout many years of them being split-up. As well as bands that are active but hardly ever play at all or never play near were I live. One can also dream of bands playing songs that are "inactive" in their live context, but they don't communicate such things either nor do I see that they need to.

Historically it's only since quite recently that "updates" in this sense even exists, which also would add to the sum of explanations of why quiet deaths happen and are understandable.

The six(!) insult-words I just take as flamewar-provocation and I'm not interested in that.

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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 3488
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:30 pm 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
as if musicians were obliged to communicate to some strangers about a part of their life. maybe they don't care, maybe they don't use the internet, maybe they hate their band and their previous work, maybe they don't know themselves or disagree with each other - there's tons of reasons why bands don't split up "officially". most likely they don't want or don't care to tell you.

They're not obliged to do anything whatsoever, they can fuck right off into the wind if they want to, however it is inconsiderate on a human level to not offer an update if they have fans.

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Master_Of_Thrash
Metalhead

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Location: Ceh, neh, deh
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:35 pm 
 

Quo Vadis from Montréal. What the hell happened to them?
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quickbeam
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 107
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:01 pm 
 

Quietly disappearing is definitely the coolest way to go. Bands that specify when they've split up are like people on forums who make a new thread announcing that they're leaving.

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gabber
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:21 pm 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Yeah, there's so many bands in that "not dead, but not alive" category. Heavenly, Savage Circus, Masterplan, Timeless Miracle. All of them existing only in the form of brief updates on Facebook.

Manowar will apparently be breaking up after a 2017 world tour (although there's a case to be made that the band was actually finished in the 90s). Maiden and Rush are still active, but what do they have left to prove at this point?

For the smaller bands: I think it's hard to pull the plug on something and admit that your dream is dead.


Yes! This is what I mean.... once prolific and then - nothing. They vanish from the face of the earth (from a new release perspective). Manowar are the biggest enigma. Something like 5 albums in five years and then after Kings Of Metal one every 5 years. Countless DVD's with Joey and Eric screaming 'that's what the fans want!' - in reality I'm sure a lot of us would have preferred a few more albums in the interim.

quickbeam wrote:
Quietly disappearing is definitely the coolest way to go. Bands that specify when they've split up are like people on forums who make a new thread announcing that they're leaving.


Absolutely - and you have a point as to why we suddenly hear nothing. But it still bums me when you see a band that hasn't even updated Facebook for 5 years but there's still comments under those posts that only date back a month from now saying 'when is the new album coming', or 'what happened to you guys?' Fans at least deserve to be addressed at least once in a five year period.

I understand that for a lot of the more 'semi professional' acts (ie acts that can't survive by being in a band full time), a lot of the members have other commitments. I'm sure that the members of Heavenly, Nocturnal Rites etc have 'day jobs' too - a band doesn't simply 'forget' to make an album for ten years if it's their only job.
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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:52 pm 
 

Most metal bands do it on the side, really not that weird at all. Think of how easy it is to put aside doing random chores or projects. Life gets busy, next thing you know it's been 5 years. It's kinda silly to me to be concerned or offended that a band not update you on what they are doing. They made music, you listened to it, everything else is besides the point imo.

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gabber
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:56 pm 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
Most metal bands do it on the side, really not that weird at all. Think of how easy it is to put aside doing random chores or projects. Life gets busy, next thing you know it's been 5 years. It's kinda silly to me to be concerned or offended that a band not update you on what they are doing. They made music, you listened to it, everything else is besides the point imo.


I never get offended at anything mate. Just find it odd that people often wonder what happened to them when the outcome is unknown or not final.
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aloof
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:40 pm 
 

while heaven wept. no one knows.

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thrashmaniac87
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:17 pm 
 

Speedwolf sort of fizzled out after a promising debut on Hellsheadbangers. I read recently somewhere that one of the members has had some troubles with the law. Not surprising really since they're a bunch of dirtbag heshers.
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Smoking_Gnu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:18 pm 
 

Bal-Sagoth is a great example of this. For the longest time Byron was saying they were just waiting on the right time and circumstances to release the next trilogy. Eventually everyone found out that the rest of the band was entirely onboard and he was just apathetic and disinterested. Now I can't blame him for that stance alone - it's his creation and he's at liberty to stop it if he's not interested anymore, no problem there. But with that in mind, his whole "it probably won't happen...but it's ready and it might!...but it probably won't...but it will someday!" comes off a bit disingenuous.
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SkullFracturingNightmare
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:55 pm 
 

thrashmaniac87 wrote:
Speedwolf sort of fizzled out after a promising debut on Hellsheadbangers. I read recently somewhere that one of the members has had some troubles with the law. Not surprising really since they're a bunch of dirtbag heshers.

Just straight up curious: What's a hesher? And yeah I've heard a lot of sketchy shit about Speedwolf but idk I love the fuck out of Ride with Death and that type of music they play.

Also speaking of bands with Speed in their name and play loud Motorhead inspired thrash, Speedböozer kinda just disappeared as well (and according to their M-A page, go by a different name). Although I've got the feeling their issue probably is similar to Speedwolf's situation, since Count von Emoslayer or whatever the fuck his name is lol seems like quite the character on their Facebook page.
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:22 am 
 

Master_Of_Thrash wrote:
Quo Vadis from Montréal. What the hell happened to them?


It's a common phenomenon with tech death bands, I've noticed....Necrophagist, Odious Mortem, Anata, Augury, Neuraxis, Lykathea Aflame, Martyr, Atheist, I guess Deeds of Flesh, and to a lesser extent big bands like Decrepit Birth and The Faceless are not immune to this kind of thing either. But maybe I'm wrong, hahaha

soulonfire wrote:
MikeyC wrote:
Necrophagist is probably one of the winners of this phenomenon.


They're in a three way tie with Angel Dust and Thorns.


Angel Dust have apparently reformed, as of last year.
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thrashmaniac87
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:40 am 
 

A hesher is dirtbag who listens to metal and hard rock, has long greasy hair, tattoos, smokes and drinks, and possibly commits petty crimes. And probably has a shitty muscle car.
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devilry6
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:04 am
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Location: Frogballs, Alabama
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:54 am 
 

Lost Horizon takes the cake on this shit. They've been planning a 3rd album for almost 15 years. Their website still gives the impression that it's release is right around the corner. Oncelosthorizon.com

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Paganbasque
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
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Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:02 am 
 

Vinterland, they did a a comeback playing several shows but nothing has happened in the las 5-6 years. I guess they are done but I have no news.

The Sins of thy Beloved was something similar but finally they announced their end.

Frostmoon from Norway, they announced their comeback in 2007 but nothing has happened since then. I guess they are dead too.

I hate when this happens, at least a "goodbye" is something that fans deserve.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:25 am 
 

Intestine Baalism seems to have died quietly. Their last album came in 2008, and I haven't heard from them since. Vitsaus also ceased making music without announcement, but according to second-hand knowledge, it's unlikely that there will be more, and the band is most likely permanently split up.
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Unity
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:15 am 
 

The Kovenant haven't released anything in almost 14 years, yet they've never said they've split up.
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IamDBR
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:13 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Intestine Baalism seems to have died quietly. Their last album came in 2008, and I haven't heard from them since.

I hope not. :(
Randomly discovered these guys, top-notch stuff.

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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:30 pm 
 

As someone in a band that is looking to play out of state more, it is rather obnoxious when bands that are supposedly active haven't made an online update in two to four years. If you're done, just say you're done.
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Dandelo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:51 pm 
 

Many factors influence this, aging, having other interests/responsibilities, money, lack of recognition.

They don't owe you anything more than what they've already produced. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to put a message up in this situation.

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Mysticaloldbard
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Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:10 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:46 pm 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Bal-Sagoth is a great example of this. For the longest time Byron was saying they were just waiting on the right time and circumstances to release the next trilogy. Eventually everyone found out that the rest of the band was entirely onboard and he was just apathetic and disinterested. Now I can't blame him for that stance alone - it's his creation and he's at liberty to stop it if he's not interested anymore, no problem there. But with that in mind, his whole "it probably won't happen...but it's ready and it might!...but it probably won't...but it will someday!" comes off a bit disingenuous.

Byron still takes to Facebook frequently, though, to post updates and answer questions. They re-released their demo a few years ago, and remastered the first trilogy on CD this past summer. I have the Black Moon and Starfire remasters, and I have to say I wasn't too thrilled with them. There's a lot of unneeded fuzz, almost like tape hiss over the recordings. I've yet to hear the Battle Magic remaster as it came out later and I haven't bought it yet. There are also vinyl copies on the way as well. Also, you may have heard of KULL, who are comprised of every Bal-Sagoth member besides Byron, and they just finished recording their first album in December. So I wouldn't say Bal-Sagoth has quitely died; the band's just slumbering like a dragon, and has transferred its lifeforce into another entity...

Azure from Sweden fit the bill. They had a quality melodic death/black album back in 2005 called King of Stars - Bearer of Dark, which you can find on sale from about every metal mailorder in existence - like those black metal albums that crop up in every mailorder catalogue, except actually worth listening to. They had an EP and another album back in 1998, but I can't remember what they sound like, it's been so long since I last heard them. They were recording another album several years back, maybe in 2009 or 2010, and had been updating their website, but now they have a new Wordpress site as of 2013 with the sole post, "Fuck you people." So I'm not expecting much output from them.

Another one is Dagorlad from Belgium. They did a few albums, the first from 1999 a fairly straightforward black/death sound with lots of horror movie samples. The second two in 2002 and 2008 were more conceptual, fantasy-based and had more extensive use of keyboards, almost like a poor man's Bal-Sagoth. After the last album, they totally fell off the map, but their website is still up and running. They have contact information up, but I have no interest in pestering them. Like Azure, they're a two-piece, so it's probably just the case of two friends separating or not having enough time to meet up and make another album.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:57 pm 
 

Paganbasque wrote:
Vinterland, they did a a comeback playing several shows but nothing has happened in the las 5-6 years. I guess they are done but I have no news.


I spoke to them when they played here in 2013 and they had no definite plans for the band. They have other bands (Alfahanne and Karjalan Sissit) they were making new music with. What they told me was they enjoyed getting together and playing that music, were open to playing more shows, but didn't seem ready to write new Vinterland music.

volutetheswarth wrote:
Most of the time I'm left asking people on MA if a band is active and there's sort of an insider knowledge with a lot of bands that I feel shouldn't exist. I shouldn't have to email a band to check if they're still active, nut up and say your band is done.


Why? Not everyone want to dictate their story in PR-speak. Not everyone wants to shut the door. Look at a band like Massacre, who split up half a dozen times, one of them specifically because someone ran his mouth. Hell no, I don't want to hear that. Unless you want a band run like a business, you shouldn't feel forced to do that.

Bands become dormant for a lot of reasons - other bands, family, work, distance. Bands become active for reasons - a member is inspired and writes new music, a label wants to release something, a promoter wants to work with them to make a big show happen. I know of one band that never "split up" who was inspired to pick up his guitar after years when someone emailed him to ask if the band was still active, with some high praise. Another was inspired to stay active because of the great response on this forum to their album. The bands who share those personal things in public (especially when it's one member talking about another) are way more likely to break up over that, than those who keep it quiet. I'm glad they're not calling it quits for your convenience.

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Thiestru
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:27 pm 
 

Ásmegin haven't released anything in about nine years, but I've never heard that they broke up. Their status is 'unknown' on MA. I suppose that means they fall into the 'bands that quietly die' category, unfortunately. Their first album was fantastic, and I thought the second one was decent too.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:30 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
Ásmegin haven't released anything in about nine years, but I've never heard that they broke up. Their status is 'unknown' on MA. I suppose that means they fall into the 'bands that quietly die' category, unfortunately. Their first album was fantastic, and I thought the second one was decent too.

Yeah, good pick :( Their debut is perhaps my favorite folk metal album of all time. Such a shame if they're actually dead.
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PDS
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:12 pm 
 

What's even worse is that all the members are not part of active projects (It seems that the drummer left the one band he was in that actually has a facebook). Makes it even harder to try to find info on Ásmegin unless like, you talk to the record label or something.
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Paganbasque
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:14 am 
 

Dandelo wrote:
Many factors influence this, aging, having other interests/responsibilities, money, lack of recognition.

They don't owe you anything more than what they've already produced. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to put a message up in this situation.


Yes, they don´t owe us anything but a farewell message to the fans who have supported a certain band is a sign of respect to their support.

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Paganbasque
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:15 am 
 

Unity wrote:
The Kovenant haven't released anything in almost 14 years, yet they've never said they've split up.


There were even some samples(which sounded great) about Aria Galactica. I dont know what the hell is going on with this band.

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Paganbasque
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 3657
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:17 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Paganbasque wrote:
Vinterland, they did a a comeback playing several shows but nothing has happened in the las 5-6 years. I guess they are done but I have no news.


I spoke to them when they played here in 2013 and they had no definite plans for the band. They have other bands (Alfahanne and Karjalan Sissit) they were making new music with. What they told me was they enjoyed getting together and playing that music, were open to playing more shows, but didn't seem ready to write new Vinterland music.

[quote="volutetheswarth"]

Thanks for the info mate. I guess they saw that the expectation was low so they haven´t played more shows. Anyway, to play at Gothic Treffen, for example, was not the best of the ideas IMO.

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joppek
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 1269
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:32 am 
 

there's a lot of posts saying bands are being inconsiderate assholes for not telling when they've split up, but i'm sure in a lot of cases the bands don't know that they've split up - life gets in the way and things get pushed back; they don't get booked to shows and timetables don't fit for a full band practice. five years later they might still be talking about maybe doing something, when in reality the band is dead
_________________
All the best bands are affiliated with Satan. -Bart Simpson

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Paganbasque
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 3657
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:45 am 
 

joppek wrote:
there's a lot of posts saying bands are being inconsiderate assholes for not telling when they've split up, but i'm sure in a lot of cases the bands don't know that they've split up - life gets in the way and things get pushed back; they don't get booked to shows and timetables don't fit for a full band practice. five years later they might still be talking about maybe doing something, when in reality the band is dead


Yeah, it hapens a lot, not only with music but with many other thins. You always try to convince yourself that you will do it again, but there always a reason which prevents you to do it, so in the end you never do it.

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