Excuse me if this has been done to death already or something to the effect. So when i got into metal I was like 12 or something and I started out with what my friends were listening to (the likes of Pantera, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Static-X, Dope, Rob Zombie you get the picture) and through the course of time my pallet has changed and so has my collection diversified to fit my needs. As I got older I began to get into more of the sub genres of metal and into the "beginner bands" like Cradle Of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, In Flames, Arch Emeny and the like I remember the first time I heard Scar Symmetry I nearly lost it in my shorts and they soon became my latest obsession but time has progressed and I was left with the same feeling. It seems as though no matter what genre or sub genre I put myself into I run into the same problem again and again, it gets old and I feel like it isn't enough for me anymore. So my question is two fold, am I missing something? Is there bands to fit my need? ( I am starting to like Meshuggah and things like that more and more for the sheer relentlessness of it) and two, does metal have room to evolve past what we have today? Are there still uncharted waters and new extremes to explore?

Looking for extremes of some sort? Honestly, if you're trying to find them in Cradle of Filth and Scar Symmetry, you're going to be disappointed. Try these bands.

Gorguts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0f1gfVdXZY
Portal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pKjF41Yx1k
Brain Drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fitl_eBj7VE
Enbilulugugal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhgvkpoAP4
Neoandertals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx7BRmMWaYQ
Defeated Sanity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwV1p_f-b0
Anaal Nathrakh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_67sErtlumg

I will not allow "recommendations" here, you didn't give any indications and this is not the Rec central. I'm sure you can search for bands yourself, especially with all the tools available today (look at Meshuggah's similar artists page here if you want similar stuff). And to be frank, the "what's the future for metal" is a tired and overdone subject. Next time, use paragraphs.

I'll let this thread alive, but only because of this sentence: . I'm also moving this to the metal disc forum.

Quote:
does metal have room to evolve past what we have today? Are there still uncharted waters and new extremes to explore?

Short Answer:No.Metal has reached the absolute limits of it's "extremity" a long time ago. Mixing metal with a number of different musical genres has also been done to varying degrees of success (See Sigh, Orphaned Land,Finntrol,Opeth etc.) I guess somebody could get silly and mix death metal with country or whatever. I feel metal bands have painted themselves into a corner. You can only go so fast until it's just noise, and we're already at that point all ready. I honestly think that as you get older you start to leave metal not because of it's "extreme heaviness" but of sheer boredom.There's lots of really cool music out there that's not metal.

I think its a valid question but I feel its not about metal that is changing but about you that is changing. You became more sophisticated in your tastes, you became more aware of what you like and dislike and you are looking for the next bang effect. Unfortunately metal, as Techno Vipe said, is not going to change (not as fast as you want it too). Are we going to see an industrial band like Fear Factory mixing dubstep with metal - maybe. Is it going to be the next hit in the world of metal - doubt it because it would look at a step into the world of hipster-esque. Metal want to stay rooted to its principles - power metal need the 5 minute solos, doom metal must stay depressing and slow, black metal must have keyboards and double kick bass.

If you are tired of the same principles I mentioned about the metal genres you like you should explore new genres maybe, and explore new bands. I'll tell you exactly what I do with all types of music. You go to google and type "metal releases 2012" - you go to wikipedia and see the list of all the albums that are released in 2012, you download them all (If you dont like Kiss, of course you dont need to download their new album). As of today there are about 350+ new releases and believe me there are going to be about 12-20 albums that you would be happy that you discovered.

Since we are not suppose to post recommendations, as ordered by the mod, I would send them to you via private message.

Quantifiable boundaries in metal have already been painfully overdone - the heaviest, fastest, most technical, lowest tuned, and thickest sounds seem like distant gimmicks that bands are reaching for while missing the point of making good music. Looking for boundaries to be pushed is eventually going to get boring, you'll stop finding interesting music when your goals are more or less quantifiable by points like those above. Metal will continue evolving, but it's also very enjoyable to look back at what you missed - hindsight is 20/20 and there has always been a lot of music that is simply forgettable - look at the top releases of year-end lists and see how many you are going back to listening to. There are many extensive searches to be made for music from the past where you can simply find tons of great music that isn't always easy to digest (production that isn't polished, some inconsistency, and not everything is shiny on the surface - US power metal, many varieties of black metal, traditional heavy metal, and many more.

EDIT: To actually contribute to the discussion, there was a thread recently in which people talked about what they felt were contemporary trend-setting acts, that is, bands who are doing what could be regarded as new things in metal. My pick was Desultor, an "extreme" metal band (I say that because they're hard for me to classify) with an almost uniform clean vocal approach. I really dig their debut album and kind of hope more people experiment with this style.

Firstly thank you Metantoine for not shutting down my jumbled mess of an OP, secondly I don't really listen to the likes of Cradle and Dimmu any more I used to when I was younger but have since left that behind and lastly I think you're right Techno Viper leaving metal seems more out of boredom these days than anything else. Yahko you are right I have just been looking for the next big bang to catch my interest and sadly there isn't anything left.

The idea is, personally, to listen to all sorts of genres. You never get bored if you're always mixing it up. See, the same thing would happen to me if I listened to nothing but blues bands all the time. I'd get sick and tired of it. I don't understand how you can become "bored" with a genre as diverse and reaching as metal, if you lighten up on your listening load a little bit. I've been into the metal scene since I was 13, I'm 25 now. And I haven't budged even a bit in my metal listening habits. Obviously I throw in some Pink Floyd, Colin James, Dead Letter Circus, you name it, from time to time. But the fact is that I still enjoy metal, even bands from back when I was just emerging into the scene, and my taste for that blistering speed, and pompous bombast hasn't soured. Just because you've reached the limits of "extremity" doesn't mean you've reached the limits of what you can do WITHIN that. Scar Symmetry is still a fucking fantastic band. Be'lakor's not the most extreme band on the face of the planet, but my god, can those boys ever write a fucking song. I think you're looking for less substance, and more shock and awe, and that's your problem. You just want it heavier, and heavier, and more intense, and I can understand that, but blowing off the entire metal genre because it can't really progress into more shocking territory is pretty short-sighted. I've ceased being shocked by metal. I did a long time ago.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that I don't still enjoy metal, I do, its just that I've reached a point where nothing suits my interest as it used too and I still enjoy those old bands as well for instance I still love Static-X's first two albums or even Powerman 5000's Tonight The Stars Revolt, though they aren't that awesomeest metal band ever that I thought they were when I was in middle school but now I'm 25 as well and after a decade(ish) of listening to pretty much nothing but all forms of metal it's almost as if I need a break from it all together. Maybe you're right and I'm just looking for shock and awe and not focusing on what the music is really about, that would be consistent with how my interests and progression into the genres has evolved.

I'd recommend you take a total break from metal. Appreciate some other genres, and come back to metal with a new look on music.

Perhaps u can start from the roots. Like metal bands that slant on a almost hard rock sound. Or more traditional metal bands?

I'm going to give a not so subtle example:

Today I woke up and did what I usually do, turn my PC on and put music playing. Since my head was hurting and I wasn't in the mood for heavy distorted guitars I put The Gathering's Sleepy Buildings playing, which is a semi acoustic live show. Then at lunch I moved on to Massive Attack's Protection, still very slow and calm. The rest of the day I listened to nothing but death metal! Old school, new school and a bit of death/doom. Then I paused and went to see a political show, now I'm listening to old school death/doom because I want something slow but crunchy and heavy.

My point is this, and let me try and phrase it correctly, there is music for every hour of the day and every mood you have OP. Not only metal but on genres outside of it. I agree with the thought that variety is the spice of life, if you're listening to death metal all day long you're bound to grow unstimulated by it after a while. But if you listen to other things according to your changing moods then you'll find how befitting each type of music is for each occasion, and when you do so you'll rarely be bored. There's also the factor that you must know exactly what is it that you like and dislike, otherwise you're just looking for kicks in a place where you won't get them. That may leave a false impression too.

I also don't understand how you can state that you've "listened to everything metal has". I've been compulsively listening to hundreds of bands on every sub-genre for a big part of my life and I can't say anything like that, there's always something more or something underground and unknown that you haven't even wondered about. There's always something more because we're talking about forty years of music! How can you have listened to it all???

Anyway, I can give another personal example. I've spent ten years refusing anything black metal and now I consider myself a fan of the genre, although not all of it pleases me. The same with hardcore, now I appreciate some acts on that scene. There's always so much music (not only metal!) to find that it baffles me how someone can say that there isn't anything more to find. Damn, just take a look at Autothrall's RYM recommendation lists. I already knew a lot of metal (or so I thought) and I've spent the past couple of years taking notes from those. There's so much out there that I can't stress this enough.

As an advice I can say that you need to find what's your biggest love on the metal scene, be it death or black or whatever. Find that love and explore it to its fullest, then diversify and explore it more, then rinse and repeat. One thing could happen though, you could never find this love I mention. If this happen then maybe you shouldn't be listening to metal at all as it's not rubbing you the way it's intended. So if you need to ditch do so. That's all I can say about the subject at hand.

This made me think when back in early 90s some metalheads said that metal have reached it's extreme, but in 2012 it continues evolving, and very probably it will never stop, also, maybe i missed something from op, but if he enjoys metal fo sheer heavines, and it's starting to get into meshuggah, there's still a long road to go for him.

To the OP: do you have a Last.FM account? I ask because the only bands you've mentioned that you like are the "beginner" bands like Cradle of Filth, Meshuggah, and Powerman 5000, and I want to take a more complete look at your taste. You say you've been listening to "all sorts" of metal for a decade, but the bands you've mentioned lead me to believe that you've barely scratched the surface.

Try revisiting a style or band you thought you didn't like before. Do you know of any classic/essential bands you've tried in the past but couldn't get into? Morbid Angel was like that with me for a while, and then they clicked pretty hard for me. Don't listen to much old-school death metal? Give it a shot. Really into the Isis/Cult of Luna sort of sludge, but never got into the more traditional Eyehategod/Dystopia variety? Listen to more and try to see the appeal.

There was a point a few years ago where I thought I knew all of the styles of metal. But all I could do was name subgenres, without knowing what those subgenres really had to offer. My preferences in metal have completely changed over the past few years or so; I knew the genre had a lot of variety, but it's a hell of a lot deeper than I originally thought. I'm guessing you haven't seen how deep it really goes.

Ha! I agree there is a long road for me, and for metal to go, I like Meshuggah for the chug than anything else. The point I am trying to make is that when I listen to metal it just doesn't feel heavy any more. I don't think there is anything wrong with looking for new experiments and for boundaries to be pushed after all that is what human nature is all about. And not to be a dick or anything because I do appreciate the commentary and suggestions but as far as exploring other genres of music goes I concede that I should do it but I've found that I really don't like much other than metal, I'm not going to sit here and list everything else that I listen to or try to get into that's not the point and no I don't have a Last.FM account but I do have a decent portion of my library listed on my account here and I know I have to explore more into metal but that costs money and sadly I can't afford it and I don't believe in downloading.

If you're not down with downloading, you could try Spotify or Pandora. They don't have everything out there, but they do have a ton of stuff and its free but still gets a small amount of money to the songwriters/rights holders. Take some risks and jump into something that you never would have checked out normally. Even if you don't dig it, you'll learn more about your tastes as a result.

Metal will continue to pushing boundaries and trying different ways to be the most xxx in something; some of us won't tolerate it and some others will.

Just saying, when I heard Slayer and Kreator back in 86', I thought metal couldn't get any more violent and brutal than that. Now that statement is a joke, like the statements read today will be in 10, 20 more years.

Damn dude 86 I wasn't even born yet, you've been head banging longer than I've been alive

I used to think in a similar way to the op, now however i've found that metal doesn't need to evolve. I don't feel that the boundaries can be pushed much more without it starting to lose it's musical merit and begin to sound like pure noise. I do feel that the scene is just overcrowded with bands who don't know how to write songs. Even though bands don't push the boundaries of genres much anymore there is still plenty of bands writing quality material within their own genre confines.

Who needs death metal/country, or black metal/disco when you have bands like Beheaded, Behexen, Evoken, Spawn of Possession, and Warbringer churning out good records for their own respective genres.

This is a good advice. Sometimes you burn out on metal. Give it a break, listen to other shit for a while, and then, when you come back, it will sound fresh again

Try turning up the volume on whatever you're listening to.
You probably just aren't listening to it loud enough.

Or just listen to Merzbow or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsQshrjIO0

Metal after a certain point wasn't really about progressing much. In my experience I've always seen metal as a genre focused mainly on a strong foundation of tradition and heritage to its roots. Bands love to twist and turn their influences into some fresh sounds, but ultimately the majority of bands will stick to the traditional metal tropes and the draw becomes good songwriting rather than how extreme or avant garde you can get - because after a while those two factors take a band out of the metal realm entirely, and into grindcore, slam or purely progressive music, or any number of other things. Metal is like any genre, it has standards and borderlines which, if crossed, take a band outside the genre's perimeters, and this fact does not mean anything for the quality of said music.

I too have been constantly getting tired of the things I was currently listening to, after a month or so, and my music taste developed constantly, I went (roughly) from heavy/power to thrash, to death, to black (progressive and folk between all of those) then I started discovering post metal and post black metal, which felt like something entirely new, even tho it was metal in it's roots. But after that I found interest in post rock, dream pop and pure ambient and drone music. I felt like I was becoming un-metal and it was a bit unsettling, but when I listened to the old records I loved when I started, I remembered why I loved those and that they still sound really awesome if not even more, just becouse I haven't listened to them in a while.
Confused post, sorry if you can't deciphre it, but the point is, let your music taste progress and expand and don't "judge anything by its cover"

I've seen some mentions of "whats next metal and country", my wife listens to country and pop and I just keep getting this image of Kenny Chesny with corpse paint and blast beats or Taylor Swift doing female vocals for some black or death metal band, very amusing. On the other hand has anyone ever heard the song Up On The Ridge by Dierks Bentley? Listening to that I could easily seen it mixing with metal...

How genre defying would that really be, though? I mean, come on, that's not progression. I just have a hard time really grasping why you've all of the sudden stopped finding most metal to be "heavy." I mean, the pursuit of heavier and heavier and more and more shocking isn't really a respectable path. GG Alin was shocking on all sorts of levels, I'm pretty sure it doesn't get more messed up than telling people to expose themselves to kids. But honestly? Fucking terrible songwriting. I don't listen to Frenzal Rhomb specifically 'cause they're fucking hilarious, which they definitely are, but because they really are pretty competent musicians. How can you stop finding a band like Grave heavy? I mean, the mind reels.

I don't know why I've stopped finding it "heavy" that's what I'm trying to figure out. And as far as how can't I find Grave heavy, simple, I haven't listened to them before.

I'm not sure what you have heard before. Maybe this won't be any different. But I found these particular bands very heavy (satisfyingly metal) when I first heard them, and they still kick my ass every time:

Demolition Hammer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDUwK5bbqhU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hBETubO1hs

Rottrevore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqoIrN-cC0

If that doesn't do it for you, maybe you should take a break from metal.

That's what I've hearing since the 80's from people who simply couldn't get the most extreme acts of the time. Slayer was considered for many 'pure noise' so it was Sodom or even Morbid Angel, which are not too extreme by today's standards.

This reminds me of several comments I have seen from Americans elsewhere. I've noticed many Americans commenting on how "heavy" a band or a song is, as if it's the only thing they care about. I can't understand why some people, almost all Americans, are so obsessed with how "heavy" a song is, and at the same time believe it's a quality criteria. It seems to be what drives a lot of American bands and fans that are into bands like Slipknot, Bullet For My Valentine, Trivium, Rob Zombie, Black Label Society, Meshuggah, Lamb of God, Slayer, Machine Head, Pantera, Soulfly, etc. They also seem to define what is heavy metal or not by how "heavy" it is, as if "metal" was the genre and "heavy" was the criteria.

Three examples from a discussion about Slipknot - The Heretic Anthem, when it comes to it's "heaviness". I see comments like this all the time.

"Say what you will about Slipknot, this is a heavy fucking song."

"Damn all the hate for the Knot XD Understandable there last album was total garbage, but cmon they were pretty damn heavy when Iowa dropped. They were good from 98 to 2005 just my opinion."

"You're all talking as if this song isn't heavy"

Are you me..? I've been having the same problem lately. I think Wintersun's Time I has sated my needs for the time being, but regardless, I will be watching this thread with great interest.

No offense to you, man. But if Wintersun's new album has suddenly restored your faith in metal, or some shit like that, the problem is a little deeper than Erosion's. How that album could restore anyone's faith in metal is beyond me, anyhow. Also, he's talking about not finding any of it heavy, and if you're trying to fucking tell me that Time I is genre defying, and a sign of all new progression into the extreme, that you're deluded.

Never said any of that. Never really even implied it. What I was saying is that it gave me something new and enjoyable to listen to, which is in essence "what I need" for all intents and purposes.

I don't like people putting things in my mouth, let alone words. It's my mouth. You have your own. You can put stuff in it whenever you want.

EDIT: However, I can see your confusion in relation to OP's 'heavy' comments and my little "oh em gee r you meee??" quip, which was based on musical taste and the dilemma of not really finding anything satisfying. I don't care about how "heavy" it is. DTP's Epicloud is one of my favorite albums, and I love Christian Alvestam's solo project.

You mean fucking terribly catchy? Yes, you're right about that.
Technicality means nothing to me. At least "Hangin' Out With Jim" had feeling.

I'm sort of getting off topic here though...

What, you don't like a little pussy (or cock) in your mouth every once in awhile? Hahaha. I didn't want to sound insulting, I was just saying, if that was what you were trying to say, than there was something going on up in that brain compartment of yours. That's exactly what I meant, though. You never really separated yourself from what Erosion was saying, so I just assumed that you were attempting to imply that Wintersun's new album was incredibly heavy and extreme. His thing was that he couldn't find anything satisfyingly heavy enough for him. Christian Alvestam has a solo project?

As far as GG Alin goes, I mean, if you find that catchy, that's cool. *laughs* Technicality has only the slightest of bearing on whether or not I find a song well written. It's not like Santeria is the most technically proficient band on the planet, and neither is Birds Of Tokyo. Great fucking songwriters, though.

As someone else already mentioned, all quantifiable extremes have already been reached in terms of speed, tuning, production, skill with an instrument etc, but for some reason very few bands have cottoned on and are still doing their best to out-compete each other... and so we end up with the likes of modern euro-style power metal (which is essentially just beefed-up AOR) adding blastbeats and screaming vocals, or bands mixing black metal and jazz, mile-a-minute soulless crap like dragonforce... or the worst offender, switching the good ol' casio for an entire symphony. It almost always ends up sounding silly and if anything, gives the impression that the genre is more or less spent. Not saying that it necessarily IS - tbh, I don't give a shit if it is or not - but that's the general feel of the whole situation.

I guess it stems from that a lot of bands themselves don't listen too much to the work of their contemporaries, but rather the various industry people telling them they're onto something with this more "extreme" sound. Then it's reinforced because the majority of fans are still under 25 and it's still all new to them (which kinda suggests that the rate at which metalheads "drop out" in their mid-20s must be about the same as that at which teenagers pick it up, now that I think about it.)

Also: saying "but if you've never heard every band to exist over the last 40 years, how can you say you've heard it all?" is ridiculous. Surely this is obvious.

Now THERE'S the problem !

How is it ridiculous? I mean, it's true. I've been listening a long time, and I can honestly say I haven't heard every spin on metal that there is.

Is it really?

How can you state that you've "heard it all" when you haven't? I didn't specifically mean to listen to all bands in existence but you do realize that within forty years of music there are many many things that pass by under the radar, until someday someone finds it out and makes an online commentary about it and that specific obscure album turns into a massive accomplishment. This has happened many times before, Morbid Saint for instance comes to mind. Almost twenty years passed before anyone noticed Spectrum of Death and then suddenly it's sold online for a small fortune and is OOP everywhere and everyone loves the shit out of that album and "its better than Slayer" and all of that.

My previous and current point being, there's always something more to find.

True story maybe i was a bit hasty earlier i just mean that i have listened to bands from all genres obviously i haven't listened to every band ever.


Why yes yes he does, i think 8 to be more specific my favorite being The Few Against Many.


Probably not unless there's some freaky shit going on but who knows