I forgot to mention Fred Estby. I like the first Dismember record, and the Carnage record, but he is easily the worst part of those records, on the dismember album, he sounds really sloppy, and on the carnage album, he sounds too slow

Clive Burr was bloody fantastic and destroyed on everything he played with Maiden. Still do not comprehend why he was ousted from Maiden, especially '82 of all times...

Best:
Dave Lombardo - for obvious reasons
Steve Asheim - drumming on Legion was beyond phenomenal, and the guy is obviously the most talented member of Deicide
Flo Mounier - see above, replacing Legion with None So Vile and Deicide with Cryptopsy
Igor Cavalera - the guy is Lombardo on steroids and created some of the best drum fills ever
Mikko Virnes - his drumming on Nespithe is awesomely groovy and matches the weirdness of the music perfectly
Lars - heh, his drumming on MOP and AJFA was really inspired and one of my favorite performances ever

Worst:
Nick Menza - not necessarily a bad drummer, but while everyone else was excelling on their instruments on Rust In Peace, he never managed to do anything really interesting. His drumming on the remaining albuns never impressed me either
Chris Reifert, Bill Andrews, Sean Reinert - 4 fucking albums of boring drumming

Best drummer might be Jamie Saint Merat from Ulcerate.

https://youtu.be/2DcCT2udF6g

I don't remember any blast beats in this one?

Also I don't really agree about Paul from CC. I think he's tight as hell and can definitely play. I like that he doesn't over complicate things and comes straight forward.

While I won’t say SBG is a great album for drums, his work in Autopsy is just some of the best drumming ever. I get the feeling that it might have been the musical direction rather than Chris himself that gives Death’s debut its stiffness.

Yeah putting Chris Reifert in your list of worst drummers really makes you lose all credibility for me. Chris' work on Metal Funeral alone puts him in the greatest categories list forever. That album has such unique, lopsided, grotesque drumming on it and it's certainly an essential part of that classic album.

The fact that Chris can perform vocals at the same time (just check their 2010 MDF performance, godly stuff) makes him that much more impressive as a musician.

I think the problem with Death's material isn't the drum performances, but the songwriting more generally.

Death's fluctuating drum creativity reminds me of debates that I've had with my band's drummer regarding what constitutes as a writing credit when it comes to drumming. Personally, I think writing credits for drum parts should come when a drummer comes up with patterns that the main writer would not have thought of otherwise. This gets weird for me when considering that Death's writing credits are 99.9% Chuck. The bare bones of Scream Bloody Gore was likely Reifert restricting himself to match prewritten material and Andrews was probably just an uncreative drummer, but did Chuck REALLY come up with the drum parts for albums like Symbolic and The Sound of Perseverance on his own?

I didn't even known these guys played in other bands, I just cited them because I hate the drumming on the first 4 death albums

Well, he gets the credits because that's not how it works, at least by the rules. If a songwriter feels a drummer's contribution is worth a credit, then they can, but there is no rule saying they have to. Unless the drummer contributed to the arrangement or melody, they don't have to be credited no matter how creative the drum part is.

I actually love Reifert's performance on "Scream Bloody Gore", I don't think it's stiff at all. Sure, it's not flashy but it does everything it needs to and fits the riffs perfectly. You have to remember that this was 1987 - before the rules of the genre were set, in all honesty that's probably one of the best performances on any early death or black metal album. Certainly miles ahead of someone like Mike Sus for example. You could argue his performance there (along with Lombardo & Ventor) really set the stage for extreme metal drumming.

Andrews was definitely a stiff drummer, but I like his more simplistic style for how well it fits the music. His drumming really locks into the bottom end of Chuck & Rick's riffs, it made the music sound a lot heavier and more brutal and completely erased the vague thrash elements that were still somewhat present on "Scream Bloody Gore". I also always liked his tendency to do those "snare fills", kind of a cool way to break up the monotony if you ask me.

As for Sean Reinert, I have no idea what you're talking about. One of the best drummers in all of metal, the polar opposite of boring - in fact I'd wager "Human" has one of the most interesting drum performances of any Death album.

Yes ...

but Reinert played on that album that had robot vocals on it, therefore, everything he ever did completely sucks

(I'm guessing)

The songwriting and the drumming with Death is great.

Hm, drummers that's impressed me... Mind you my understanding of drumming is as basic as it comes. So i judge drummers by my own merits which might make a professional drummer cringe in the worst way ^^

- Mark Greening - He might not be the tightest drummer but his work with Electric Wizard and Ramesses is perfect for their raw fuzzed out sound. He's got a great groove when it comes to doom metal and utilizes some nice fills which make him stand out from most doom metal drummers. He's a good example of feeling being more important then technique in my book.

- Austin Lunn - I always thought there was little room for creativity when it comes to drumming in a black metal bands. But Austin Lunn from Panopticon has definitely proven me wrong. I love his loose style of drumming which sounds nothing like you would expect on a black metal records. Of course you have your blast beats but otherwise he must be one of the most creative drummers in black metal.

- Nick Barker - If believe this man can do it all when it comes to extreme metal. He's can play at supersonic speeds without making it sound mechanic or boring (cough, Jan Axel "Hellhammer" Blomberg, cough) He played with some of the greats in black metal and his drumming is often the highlight on those records. And on top of it all he makes it look so easy and effortless. Definitely one of the greats.

- Brann Dailor - This might sound weird since i don't particulary like Mastodon but Dailor's drumming is just insane. His speed and the schizofrenic fills he uses is really something to behold. Sometimes it borders on overkill but i'd be lying if i didn't say i'm impressed everytime i hear him play. Definitely a drummer who has his own unique style and sound.

- Bill Ward - I don't think this needs any explanation. Each time when i see a Black Sabbath video from the back in the days i get goosebumps seeing Bill Ward play. He's bashing to skins like a maniac and has such a perfect groove. Sure, it might not be fancy playing but once again an example of feeling over technicality.




Worst drummers, hmmm that's a tough one.

- Joey Jordison - I know he's held in pretty high regard. But i just found his particular style to be boring most of the time. For one i don't like his drum sound but besides that i just feel he focuses too much on the technicality of things. Which in turn makes his drumming just sound mechanical and dead.

- Vinnie Paul - Maybe not bad in a Lars Ulrich way. But everybody was always raving about his drumwork in Pantera and i never really understood why. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge when it comes to drumming. But i always found Vinnie Paul to be rather pedestrian in his drumming. Serviceable at best but nothing groundbreaking.

- Christian "Witchhunter" Dudek. Well i guess this needs no explanation. Like i said i know jack shit about drummming but this is amateur hour at the best. Sad thing is his playing only seemed to get worse with time, especially the stuff he played on the re-recording of Sign of Evil. But that being said his crappy playing somehow did complement Sodom's early work. So while his ability were probably sub-par it was perfect for the time being.

Considering Greening a good drummer but Jordison does not make a lot of sense of course. It is not about taste, but about skillset.

You are totally right, Ardbeg Wizard. If we are talking about skilset then Jordison is far superior to Greening. But i always seperate the technical aspect from the emotional aspect, although i do understand that's not the question here. But for me those things go hand in hand. Greening's playing might be sloppy but at least it sounds exciting and powerful despite all it shortcomings. When i hear Jordison all i hear is someone trying to play as fast as he can while being as technical and intricate as possible. To my ears it just sounds boring and soulless for a lack of better words. Music is about emotions and if you can't transfer that to the listener then you've failed in my opinion.

Witchunter was brilliant! He was always pushing himself and his reputation as sloppy overlooks how much he improved as a musician (Better Off Dead has drumming like a thrash Ian Paice). His playing was always spirited; I’d honestly put him amongst the best!

I’ve never heard his final recordings but he was in the process of drinking himself to death at the time.

Yeah ok but referring to Jordison as one of the worst drummers in metal just does not work. Just not your style.

And he's a great guy as well! He's super nice through and through.

The official story is that his drinking and drug using was taking a toll on his performance, often him being hungover. I guess that makes sense, since drumming is very physically demanding, so even he was no more hung over than the rest of the band, his performance would still suffer most.

However, there is a darker version told by Burr himself. According to him, in '82, his father died, and he got 2 weeks off to attend the funeral. Iron Maiden was a machine at that point, so they took no brakes, and Nicko McBrain was put in as a replacement for the gigs he missed. When he, Clive, came back, he felt that the entire band wanted him out, and so he was "asked to leave".

Here is an in-depth discussion
https://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/wh ... urr.32887/

.

These are all subjective opinions and I tend to avoid best/worst comparisons, so I will just say my favorites and most disliked

Favorite: Lombardo. God on drums. And what I like about him most is he knows when to back off instead of charging into more machine gun double bassing, which is what kept me from getting into Nevermore for the longest time. Van's excessive pedaling drives me up a wall.

Clive Burr: I stopped listening to Maiden when he left. God Nicko is so pedestrian.

Henry Ranta: Everyone said Peter Wichers was the musical genius of early Soilwork but Henry's playing on PP and NBC are off the chain and made those albums so great. I especially love The Flameout.

Gar Samuelson: Worst loss for Megadeth. His playing was unmatched.

Jukka Nevelainen: Not exceptionally talented, but he fit Nightwish's style perfectly and there is something missing without him.

Aruto: Not just because she was beautiful but she really did great stuff in Aldious, especially the first album. Marina is slowly growing into the role though. She better. Her stepfather is Terry Bozzio.

Mari (Mary's Blood): Dave Lombardo in a 4'10 form. And Japanese. And female. Jesus this woman can power a song, or lay back when it needs it. Like Dave, she knows when to back off the gas.

I don't know his name and I'm too lazy to Google, but there was a nu metal band out of LA called Apex Theory around 2000-2002. They were all Armenians and got tagged as "that other Armenian band," which was unfortunate because their drummer was all kinds of awesome. I loathed nu metal but the first time I heard "Shhh! (Hope diggity)" I was floored.

Least favorite:

Dave Holland: dude, can you even do a fill?

Nicko McBain: dude can you even double bass?

Van Williams: Not inept but holy fuck get off those pedals. A ballad like "Tomorrow Turned Into Yesterday" do not need double bass. I've spoken to ex-Nevermore members at NAMM and they told me that Jeff Loomis used to be a drummer and knows the basics, and often writes the parts or dictates them to Van. And Jeff is hooked on djent style. Once in a while, for something like "Narcosynthesis," it's fine. But not EVERY FUCKING SONG. Besides, imagine Alex Lifeson telling Neil Peart what drum parts to play. Van shoulda pushed back.

Shawn Drover: boring and as spontaneous as a metronome.

Louie Clemente: the worst thing about 80s Testament. This guy knew one pattern and didn't differentiate. As Skolnick improved with each album, Louie became more and more of an anchor, limiting what Alex could do. I never could get through a Testament album because the songs all ran together and sounded the same due to this one-trick pony. I saw people celebrate Skolnick's departure in 92 because they blamed him for Testament going soft (which he vehemently denied in his book) but Louie's departure was far better for Testament.

You peaked my curiosity with this one.

Although not really my thing, it's a shame this got lumped with the nu-metal crowd, because that it is clearly not. The drumming certainly was a lot more interesting than most commercial rock songs. I pressed play on another song, but the 20 seconds or so that I listened to sounded more like Incubus (not the Brazil one), so meh.

You have to admire the singer's ability to alliterate that fast. Wonder how many takes in the studio that song took.

Neil Peart and Bill Ward are best for me... worst? No idea. Probably some old punk band like The Germs or Discharge where they got by on attitude more than musical ability.

And early Misery Index, the Dissent EP is really good.

Did anyone mention Dave Culross yet? His playing on Suffocations Despise the Sun is incredible and Malevolent Creations Fine Art of Murder and Envenomed is also memorable.

Discharge? Really? Thunderous d-beats abound!

Of the top of my head: Randy Foxe from classic era Manilla Road, Mark Zonder from Warlord/Fates Warning, and Uli Kusch from Holy Moses/Helloween/Masterplan are probably my favourite drummers. Love their style, love their energy. I especially adore the chaotic style of Foxe. I also quite like Felix Bohnke from Edguy, especially his playing on the Theatre of Salvation album.

Worst? Ulrich is an easy target, so is Shawn Drover.
Most of the drummers that only rely on fast double-bass drumming also irks me. Metronomes on speed

Drover was so uninspired and basic in his approach while in Megadeth. I never experienced him being off time or sloppy but he was so boring and obviously couldn't play everything previous drummers in the band did.

Good choice, I really love his performance on Envenomed. Kind of a shame that he's not really active in the scene anymore, I don't think he's done much of anything since he left Suffocation.

BEST:
Donald Tardy from Obituary; I know...probably one of the least flashy drummers in death metal, but I love his sense of groove and ability to play interesting and creative beats without showing off or taking away from the song - his simple, but effective beats fit like a glove with to Peres' brutal riffs. I also think he has a very distinctive style, when he's playing, you know it's him!

Bill Tolley from Internal Bleeding (RIP); kind of in a similar vein, Tolley is definitely one of the best "groove" drummers in death metal. Maybe a bit more flashy than Tardy - he uses blast beats as well, but I think his drumming fits with Chris Prevelis' signature riffing so well that it's basically magic and ended up more or less laying the groundwork for what we now know as "slam death".

Janne Saarenpää from The Crown; what more can be said about this fucking guy??? Criminally underrated, and I think his drumming was basically the lifeblood of The Crown, the energy and passion that flowed through his kit is fucking electric!!! What's more, to my knowledge he never used triggers or anything "fake", which is why he's credited for "real drums" on the classic The Crown albums.

Nicke Andersson from Entombed; just listen to "Clandestine" and you'll see what I mean. The man was a fucking monster, a total maniac behind the kit who completely devastated everything in his path. His playing just has charisma...there's a very real, organic sense of excitement, it's as if he's giving it everything he's got and is playing on the absolute verge of his ability. It's no wonder Entombed immediately turned to shit as soon as he left!

WORST:
Tomas Asklund from Dissection, Gorgoroth, etc.; I've always found his playing stiff and boring, devoid of any creativity or excitement. It's like he's playing blindfolded or something. Plus, his kit is probably fakest and most computerized sounding shit I've ever heard...worse than most tech death bands (at least they have an excuse!)...the reason I list him as the worst is because he has a tendency to ruin the albums he's on, just look at "Reinkaos" for the most egregious example. It could have been a great heavy/black metal album, but his drumming robs the band of any impact or sense of urgency, and makes it all just sound dull and boring. Fuck this dude!

Everyone bashing Nicko McBrain in this thread is nuts! He can single foot pedal better than quite a few blast beat drummers I reckon.

Stop avoiding the review subforum.

Like listening to a drum machine.

Naturally most of the drummers I like have already been mentioned; Chuck Biscuits, Steve Shelton, Janne Saarenpää, Nicke Andersson, Tomas Haake and so on ... But I'll throw in two technical masterminds, Tony Westermark from Soreption and Archspire's Spencer Prewett.

And also Morgan Ågren, because ... Morgan Ågren.

Curtis Beeson (Nasty Savage, Lowbrow, etc.) is one of my favorites. Penetration Point is nonstop percussive gold, the breakdown here at around 2 minutes is just unfairly good.

Also, bit of a sore subject maybe, but I gotta say Bill Andrews gets entirely too much shit for Leprosy and Spiritual Healing. I had no problem with the drumming on either album, not to mention his work with Massacre is just about flawless.

lol, I've read all the posts pertaining to my review. There's no law that says I have to respond to any of them (though Twisted_Psychology was right when he corrected me on the Sepultura song in question being Refuse/Resist rather than Roots Bloody Roots).

Nicko is a great drummer but all the band and he himself acknowledges Clive was better. And for what's it's worth, Nicko has some great drumlines. I was listening to Piece of Mind for the first time ages the other day, and was struck by how interesting the drumming on The Trooper is compared to a lot of modern metal. And why does Maiden need double bass? (Of course he finally gave in and has two bass drums on Face in the Sand).

There is if I say there is.

Where are these acknowledgements from the band? Nicko might just admit it so not to look like an arrogant prick, particularly for a fallen predecessor. I've maybe seen a quote from Bruce, but that was a forum sig.

I'll admit one thing Clive was better at than Nicko was Clive could swing better, and to some people that's everything, but it's not to me.




Excuse me?