Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives :: View topic - When the remastered version is definitive

All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters,

The praise Sigh's Gallows Gallery remaster gets is baffling to me. All Murphy seemed to do is make it louder than it was before. Some of the vocal melodies become completely inaudible as a result.

VHSDVD123 wrote:

All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters,

Their new compilation album says otherwise.

That remaster of "Majesty"? FUCKING. AWESOME.

thrashfan07 wrote:

The remaster of Seeming Salvation by Epitaph is vastly superior. In fact, the reissue is how the original was supposed to sound, according to the band!

Are you on about the Konqueror Records version cause they fucked that up. The sound is great (like Carnage I guess) but the speed is much slower than the original... shame really...

In my opinion the originals are the best to get when at all possible.

Basically the LOWER the DR number is, the LOUDER the CD is...if you look at listings in the database where the remaster has DR values of 4 and 5 compared to a more reasonable number for an original pressing then that means that the remaster was butchered/brickwalled.

With that in mind avoid the 2011 Nuclear Assault reissues like the plague! I mean it, they're so compressed and clipped that at points you can barely discern the guitars. Such a horrible mess that I regret even the little money I spent on them... Oh well, to hunt down the 1999 reissues, at least those are "only" loud.

Iron Maiden's remastered versions make the albums sound more powerful, the guitars sound very strong and the drum sound is better, IMO; Desultory's remastered versions sound more powerful too...

I would like to advise everyone to avoid Metal Mind's remasters at all costs. They are all terrible, amateurish brickwall jobs that destroy the sound quality of the albums. Their massacre of Unstoppable Force is particularly unbearable.

I have the Painkiller and Defenders Of The Faith remasters and they sound awesome. The drums on Painkiller are thunderous

Behexen - Rituale Satanum

The remaster is incredibly good. The recording is excellent quality and the mix is flattering to it, whereas the original is muddy with little treble and inaudible everything. It sounds like a re-recorded version, really. I'm not usually bothered by raw production, and in black metal I prefer rawness to a certain extent, but a raw production does not necessitate a crappy mix. Black metal usually needs high treble and is not harmed even if there's a gaping hole where mids and lows normally are. The original pretty much omits trebles, at it's a big fault in a black metal mix.

Anyone has any experience with the Candlelight re-release of Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk?
Is the remaster the same as the Century Black remaster?

It wasn't on my sound system that I heard them, but nothing else sounded crappy like that. It could've been a version from Blessed Be the Darkness that I heard back then. The demo has the same sound of having been recorded in a forest using a tape recorded.

I thought the re-master of NA' s Game Over sounded pretty good.

Also, would be great if someone could shed some light on the Gorgoroth (Pentagram/Antichrist/UTSOH)
SOM vs Regain remasters. Are both badly clipped, or is one better than the other?

Techno Viper wrote:

I thought the re-master of NA' s Game Over sounded pretty good.

The 1998/99 with The Plague EP does sound good, the one from 2008 (actually it's 2008 I meant and not 2011) with the live tracks sounds overly clipped and is way too loud. There are points where the guitars speed up and you can't understand what's going on between them and the drums. The one for Game over is even worse!

I guess my ears have been blast-beated to death. I can't hear what your talking about, but if that's what you hear, then I'll take your word for it.

Ilwhyan wrote:

The demo has a good sound as well. Maybe black metal is not your thing?

VHSDVD123 wrote:

All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters,

Their new compilation album says otherwise.

That remaster of "Majesty"? FUCKING. AWESOME.

Author:	VHSDVD123 [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters, they butchered their own old demo tracks by slowing them down and raising the volume too much on Nightfall In Middle Earth to the point where you can't easily decipher their crowning achievements Mirror Mirror and Nightfall. EDIT: page

Author:	Folkemon_ [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
The remixed versions of Mirror Mirror and Nightfall sound alot better than the albums, the guitars arent drowned out by Hansi anymore.

Author:	AmishFury [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
when the remastered version is definitive? when it's a properly handled remaster that doesn't throw inappropriate EQing at the album or kill it with compression sadly so many metal albums are not handled properly many times i find myself looking for the originals of older pre loudness war albums since 90% of the time the remasters are worse one recent example of definitive version that is a remaster... Dio - Holy Diver... the Audio Fidelity release that came out last month is amazing... never heard the album sound so good ever before

Author:	Zelkiiro [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
VHSDVD123 wrote: All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters, Their new compilation album says otherwise. That remaster of "Majesty"? FUCKING. AWESOME.

Author:	Hawksword192 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
WaywardSon wrote: The praise Sigh's Gallows Gallery remaster gets is baffling to me. All Murphy seemed to do is make it louder than it was before. Some of the vocal melodies become completely inaudible as a result. I hate to admit this, but it was a year after buying the original that I noticed that there were loads of solos on the album. Some of them were so quiet the bass was drowning it out (although I loved the bass). The volume definitely needed fixing on the lead guitar's part.

Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives https://forum.metal-archives.com/

When the remastered version is definitive https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83184	Page 3 of 4

Author:	VHSDVD123 [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Zelkiiro wrote: VHSDVD123 wrote: All power metal fans should stay away from Blind Guardian remasters, Their new compilation album says otherwise. That remaster of "Majesty"? FUCKING. AWESOME. Yeah, I meant the 2007 remastered albums, Memories of A Time to Come is fantastic, except for a couple weird volume shifts (During Mirror Mirror when hansi comes in with the FAR FAR, BEYOND THE ISLAND etc)

Author:	hakarl [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Behexen - Rituale Satanum The remaster is incredibly good. The recording is excellent quality and the mix is flattering to it, whereas the original is muddy with little treble and inaudible everything. It sounds like a re-recorded version, really. I'm not usually bothered by raw production, and in black metal I prefer rawness to a certain extent, but a raw production does not necessitate a crappy mix. Black metal usually needs high treble and is not harmed even if there's a gaping hole where mids and lows normally are. The original pretty much omits trebles, at it's a big fault in a black metal mix.

Author:	Brutal Beard [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
I thought the remastered version of Amon Amarths Once Sent From the Golden Hall was done the right way. Nothing major was done to it (in my opinion). Really I enjoyed all the albums they re-released. The second disc with the entire album done live really made it an awesome listening experience.

Author:	~Guest 82538 [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Why would that one album need to be remastered? It's just about perfect as it is...

Author:	Rodman [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Bump. I'm looking to buy a genuine copy of Epicus Doomicus Metallicus. The 2011 25th anniversary remaster comes with a CD commentary by Leif, which I'm not particularly interested in, but the 2002 remaster seems much harder to track down. Are the live tracks on the 2002 version worth hanging out for, and is there a noticeable difference between the 2002 remasters and the 2011 remasters?

Author:	~Guest 104167 [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
The most definitive example: Morbid Saint - Spectrum of Death by Power Play Records. That raw and strong original sound just sadly doesn't exist on this re-master

Author:	dalecooper [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
LifeDemise wrote: thrashfan07 wrote: The remaster of Seeming Salvation by Epitaph is vastly superior. In fact, the reissue is how the original was supposed to sound, according to the band! Are you on about the Konqueror Records version cause they fucked that up. The sound is great (like Carnage I guess) but the speed is much slower than the original... shame really... I am replying to a very old post but since the thread is bumped, I can't help myself. They didn't fuck that up, at least not the speed/pitch issue. The speed was actually wrong on the Thrash Recs original version, which the band was unhappy about. The Konqueror version is how the original master actually sounded, according to the band. The one thing they did screw up: that CD is loud as hell, and not in a good way. It's one of the most over-compressed metal CDs I own. I don't have the original for comparison but I doubt any CDs in the early 90s were quite that compressed. Also would've been nice to include the Dark Abbey demo (so far only exists on vinyl, and the original tape), but that would have been just a nice bonus, not a necessity. It's been 3 years now since that version and it's getting to be as hard to find as the original, so maybe it's due for another reissue...

Author:	savagevelocithrash [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
The remaster of Savage Grace's "Master Of Disguise" fucking sucks. The drums sounds awful, killing all the feeling of that record.

Author:	MARSDUDE [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
The 1999 remaster of Alchemist's "Jar Of Kingdom" is the definitive version. And not just the better artwork.

Author:	ancientorder [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Wladza wrote: In my opinion the originals are the best to get when at all possible. This line underlines my opinion about remasters in general. The only good remaster that I've heard is Godflesh's Streetcleaner.

Author:	cvac [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Here is a great site that will show the DR (dynamic range) of a bunch of different CD pressings. You can even update the database yourself by using the DR component in Foobar. That's what I do with the CDs I buy if they're not already in the database. Basically the LOWER the DR number is, the LOUDER the CD is...if you look at listings in the database where the remaster has DR values of 4 and 5 compared to a more reasonable number for an original pressing then that means that the remaster was butchered/brickwalled. See here: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ Here are a couple examples where the remasters either got it right or didn't completely butcher the album: NAPALM DEATH : 2012 "Full Dynamic Range" remasters...(these are awesome, I bought them for Scum and FETO - DR values are very generous, moreso than any metal related reissues coming out today) DISSECTION: 2xCD Remasters/Reissues - they aren't really any louder than the originals. Lastly, some reissues aren't remastered at all...the version of Entombed's Clandestine with the bonus DVD on Earache is the same as the original, no need to hunt down an original. I wish I could say the same for the CARCASS CD/DVD combos, but those are typical loudness war remasters.

Author:	japc [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
cvac wrote: Basically the LOWER the DR number is, the LOUDER the CD is...if you look at listings in the database where the remaster has DR values of 4 and 5 compared to a more reasonable number for an original pressing then that means that the remaster was butchered/brickwalled. Not really. DR (dynamic range) is, simplified, the diference of the loudest parts to the rms. You can very well have loud CDs with a pretty decent DR. The same way having a small DR doesn't mean that it is brickwalled (this meaning it has clipping: if you look at the waveform the peaks are cut at places where it goes to 0db), it can just be lacking dynamics but have a decent amount of headroom. EDIT: for an example of clipping check the disgusting Abigail remaster, http://www.justiceforaudio.org/forum/vi ... f=17&t=554

Author:	cvac [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
japc, you're absolutely right. My apologies for misusing the terminology. Main point I was trying to make: All I know is that a lot of the modern remasters I come across with low DR values are also obviously louder than the originals or older pressings with higher DR when you compare the two.

Author:	~Guest 82538 [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Yes, but that's standard procedure actually. Nowadays remastering is almost a synonym with "raising up the volume". Then you have loud remasters that keep DR and those which don't. With that in mind avoid the 2011 Nuclear Assault reissues like the plague! I mean it, they're so compressed and clipped that at points you can barely discern the guitars. Such a horrible mess that I regret even the little money I spent on them... Oh well, to hunt down the 1999 reissues, at least those are "only" loud.

Author:	inhumanist [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
androdion wrote: With that in mind avoid the 2011 Nuclear Assault reissues like the plague! I mean it, they're so compressed and clipped that at points you can barely discern the guitars. Such a horrible mess that I regret even the little money I spent on them... Oh well, to hunt down the 1999 reissues, at least those are "only" loud. Damn, I own the Game Over 2011 remaster... always thought the sound was odd.

Author:	Woolie_Wool [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Tezcat wrote: Iron Maiden's remastered versions make the albums sound more powerful, the guitars sound very strong and the drum sound is better, IMO; Desultory's remastered versions sound more powerful too... I disagree. The '80s Iron Maiden CDs are very, very good. The 1986 Japanese CD of Powerslave (slightly different from the original US version) is much better than the remaster and perhaps the best-sounding CD I have ever heard, and the remaster of Somewhere in Time utterly butchers the sound of the album to the point of being a wall of noise. I would like to advise everyone to avoid Metal Mind's remasters at all costs. They are all terrible, amateurish brickwall jobs that destroy the sound quality of the albums. Their massacre of Unstoppable Force is particularly unbearable.

Author:	~Guest 82538 [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Woolie_Wool wrote: I would like to advise everyone to avoid Metal Mind's remasters at all costs. They are all terrible, amateurish brickwall jobs that destroy the sound quality of the albums. Their massacre of Unstoppable Force is particularly unbearable. Any other complain on MM in particular apart from that album? I have a few and I wouldn't call them brickwalled.

Author:	Woolie_Wool [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
All of the ones I've heard--off the top of my head: World Circus, Think This, Endless War, Suiciety, and By Inheritance. They all suck, and the originals are vastly superior. metallicbrian666 wrote: I have the Painkiller and Defenders Of The Faith remasters and they sound awesome. The drums on Painkiller are thunderous The drums on the remastered Painkiller come very close to giving me a headache from the way the reverb "blooms" from being compressed too much. Not to mention that the individual drum hits sort of blur together on the remaster while on the original they are all distinct. The original Painkiller was an excellent sounding CD. One set of remasters I would recommend are the ones on Memories from a Time to Come. They really put serious work into restoring the material and it shows. All the tracks except for the ones from Somewhere Far Beyond are improved.

Author:	cvac [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
+1 on the '80s Maiden CDs, they're good and can be picked up pretty easily. The '95 double disc versions are good too and aren't butchered...

Author:	ancientorder [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Ilwhyan wrote: Behexen - Rituale Satanum The remaster is incredibly good. The recording is excellent quality and the mix is flattering to it, whereas the original is muddy with little treble and inaudible everything. It sounds like a re-recorded version, really. I'm not usually bothered by raw production, and in black metal I prefer rawness to a certain extent, but a raw production does not necessitate a crappy mix. Black metal usually needs high treble and is not harmed even if there's a gaping hole where mids and lows normally are. The original pretty much omits trebles, at it's a big fault in a black metal mix. I don't know what kind of CD player or stereo you have but for my ears the Sinister Figure edition sounds just fine. Guitar sounds like it should be, very sharp and bass is booming nicely. Haven't heard the remaster.

Author:	hakarl [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
It wasn't on my sound system that I heard them, but nothing else sounded crappy like that. It could've been a version from Blessed Be the Darkness that I heard back then. The demo has the same sound of having been recorded in a forest using a tape recorded.

Author:	WorldDecay [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Anyone has any experience with the Candlelight re-release of Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk? Is the remaster the same as the Century Black remaster? Also, would be great if someone could shed some light on the Gorgoroth (Pentagram/Antichrist/UTSOH) SOM vs Regain remasters. Are both badly clipped, or is one better than the other?

Author:	cvac [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
WorldDecay wrote: Anyone has any experience with the Candlelight re-release of Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk? Is the remaster the same as the Century Black remaster? http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.p ... um=anthems The 2001 CB and 2004 Candlelight would appear to be the same. I don't have my original '97 CB with me to compare with my 2001 CB but I would try to find the original if at all possible.

Author:	ancientorder [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Ilwhyan wrote: It wasn't on my sound system that I heard them, but nothing else sounded crappy like that. It could've been a version from Blessed Be the Darkness that I heard back then. The demo has the same sound of having been recorded in a forest using a tape recorded. The demo has a good sound as well. Maybe black metal is not your thing?

Author:	Techno Viper [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
I thought the re-master of NA' s Game Over sounded pretty good. Flotsam and Jetsam's "Doomsday" is incredible. You can clearly hear Jason through out the album and it's much more dynamic sounding.Highly recommended. I also enjoyed Escapi's Trouble Pslam 9 and The Skull remasters. Bonded by Blood and Forbidden Evil, I could barely tell the difference between the old versions and the newer ones.

Author:	~Guest 82538 [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Techno Viper wrote: I thought the re-master of NA' s Game Over sounded pretty good. The 1998/99 with The Plague EP does sound good, the one from 2008 (actually it's 2008 I meant and not 2011) with the live tracks sounds overly clipped and is way too loud. There are points where the guitars speed up and you can't understand what's going on between them and the drums. The one for Game over is even worse!

Author:	AmishFury [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
WorldDecay wrote: Also, would be great if someone could shed some light on the Gorgoroth (Pentagram/Antichrist/UTSOH) SOM vs Regain remasters. Are both badly clipped, or is one better than the other? both badly clipped... regain being only slightly worse than SOM century black reissues can sometimes be found at reasonable prices and they are not remastered

Author:	Techno Viper [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
androdion wrote: Techno Viper wrote: I thought the re-master of NA' s Game Over sounded pretty good. The 1998/99 with The Plague EP does sound good, the one from 2008 (actually it's 2008 I meant and not 2011) with the live tracks sounds overly clipped and is way too loud. There are points where the guitars speed up and you can't understand what's going on between them and the drums. The one for Game over is even worse! Is that the one with the biohazard glow-in-the dark slipcase?

Author:	~Guest 82538 [ Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When the remastered version is definitive
Yes, the "Radiation Glow" edition or whatever it's called. There's a 2011 repress of Handle With Care that is part of the label's "Music for the Masses" campaign that uses the same remaster as the 2008 edition, hence my mistake with the dates earlier.