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sperma_draconis
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:55 am
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:51 pm 
 

Ive listened to hundreds of bands and albums in the genre, but when I stop to think about it, only a few things seem to actually give a spark of really effective negative emotion and misery. Bands like say Theatre of Tragedy, Lake of Tears, and Paradise Lost are all heroes of the style, and dont get me wrong I like some of them a lot, but it all just feels like nice moody music.

The one major artitst I will acknowledge is old Anathema.. The Silent Enigma.. that stuff is TOTALLY different! There is something decidedly evil in those songs that just freeze your spirit on the spot. They stood on another plane over the rest of the genre. And fuck if I could find albums that match what they did! Its NOT about whose the most heaviest, else then everyone would listen to funeral doom or some other easy go to. And even bands like Desire (PRT) seem just to be trying to hard. Its about SONGCRAFT

Here are some examples of what is GENUINELY emotionally affecting. Mind -- the bands who wrote these songs may not be as powerful on the rest of the album. I'd challenge people to see if they can come up with other examples similar to these of death doom that actually is legitimately misery-inducing.

---
(of course) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFB0oicv3UY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO1x0IC7uMk (I think this band must have been so good because they came from a country with recent history of genocide and sectarian violence)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROyisAeCKtU (ignore the stupid artwork)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7o4fqFUWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GHIgLrIjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQf7C-DnKb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mauwJGRWHic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEWWwwjRJyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcpvjgskPs4

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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 4625
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:49 am 
 

Because it doesn't need to be? A lot of people like the darker, heavier, more mysterious atmosphere that diSEMBOWELMENT and bands that followed their style present. Also, I'm not sure what you're getting at with funeral doom. I think you have it backwards. That genre is more built around melancholy and sorrow than regular death doom. Stuff like Skepticism, Mournful Congregation, Shape of Despair, and Colosseum do that as their game, and I wouldn't necessarily call any of them heavier than normal death doom (certainly not Skepticism).

Still, thanks for sharing all those obscure gems. I listened to a few tracks and this stuff sounds pretty good. I'm going to need to check them all out.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 5554
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:04 am 
 

Do I get to plug The Slow Death again? Oh boy! Oh boy, oh boy! Some mournful doom/death metal, coming right up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJyNfuVtiKQ
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5168
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:07 am 
 

sperma_draconis wrote:
The one major artitst I will acknowledge is old Anathema.. The Silent Enigma.. that stuff is TOTALLY different! There is something decidedly evil in those songs that just freeze your spirit on the spot.


I don't see how you'd find that album to be evil sounding. It's pretty sappy melancholic stuff if you ask me. Not to mention the vocals are rather inconsistent; the harsh vocals sound excellent while the ''clean'' vocals are pretty terrible.

What I like about doom/death metal is how you can expect different sounds from it. Something like Divine's Eve Upon These Ashes Scorn the World sounds aggressive while something like Katatonia's Dance of December Souls features more overwhelming sadness. If all the bands tried to aim for one thing, I wouldn't like the genre as much.

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1609
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 pm 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbAOraF7eQ

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MDL
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:19 pm 
 

It doesn't need to be. Many death doom bands play depressive or sadder songs, while others don't. You can't create a general opinion based solely on some examples that share similarities, those might not be equal for every qualified entity.
It would be like something as all black metal bands to be "satanic" or every glam song to be about women and sex.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 1286
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:40 am 
 

MDL wrote:
It doesn't need to be. Many death doom bands play depressive or sadder songs, while others don't. You can't create a general opinion based solely on some examples that share similarities, those might not be equal for every qualified entity.
It would be like something as all black metal bands to be "satanic" or every glam song to be about women and sex.


the op didn't do that - saying "only a few things..." and listing actual examples to the contrary

it's quite clear that the point is "most tend to...", rather than "they're all like this"
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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 829
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:02 am 
 

This reminds me of the same sort of expectation that "all black metal must be Satanic" or "all death metal must be gory".

A common theme does not need to be the status quo. Bands like Monolithe, Ahab, Tyranny and Catacombs are better without the depression aesthetic because it's something different
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sperma_draconis
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:55 am
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:09 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
Because it doesn't need to be? A lot of people like the darker, heavier, more mysterious atmosphere that diSEMBOWELMENT and bands that followed their style present. Also, I'm not sure what you're getting at with funeral doom. I think you have it backwards. That genre is more built around melancholy and sorrow than regular death doom. Stuff like Skepticism, Mournful Congregation, Shape of Despair, and Colosseum do that as their game, and I wouldn't necessarily call any of them heavier than normal death doom (certainly not Skepticism).


My main complaint with funeral doom is often bands are trying way too hard to get that depressive effect and somehow miss it. The only funeral doom I know that works is some early Skepticism like "the March and the Stream". Ive found doom death general to be a lot more effective, maybe because of a more diverse instrumentation and not ham-stringed by the ultra slow speed expectation of funeral doom. Slower does NOT equal more depressing.



Helvede wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cbAOraF7eQ



OK yeah, Thats a lot more like I was looking for. Though I wish they had more atmosphere, that first Funeral is pretty decent at being cruelly depressing. Id like to find more like that.



colin040 wrote:
I don't see how you'd find that album to be evil sounding. It's pretty sappy melancholic stuff if you ask me. Not to mention the vocals are rather inconsistent; the harsh vocals sound excellent while the ''clean'' vocals are pretty terrible.

What I like about doom/death metal is how you can expect different sounds from it. Something like Divine's Eve Upon These Ashes Scorn the World sounds aggressive while something like Katatonia's Dance of December Souls features more overwhelming sadness. If all the bands tried to aim for one thing, I wouldn't like the genre as much.


To me any music that really makes one question the worth of life or removes a feeling of wellness or happiness has an evil aura about it.... essentially because it does harm. Thats the way I look at it. I find that the vocals for anathema are rather crude, but to me they are good enough that it does not diminish from the overall aura of the music.
Another commenter put it more clearly for me. I dont expect all doom death to go for one depressive sound, but that is one of the general character traits of death/doom and ive found so few bands actually manage to pull off that depressive or emotional sound.


Zelkiiro wrote:
Do I get to plug The Slow Death again? Oh boy! Oh boy, oh boy! Some mournful doom/death metal, coming right up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJyNfuVtiKQ


See... now this stuff does not work. At least to me. Its got some interesting elements that have a little bit of feeling to it, but after a while the riffs feel like they are just lost in a slow pace that has nothing particularly distinct about it except that its "heavy". Its just not emotionally gripping enough to me.

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DreamOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:47 am 
 

Since we're at this topic:

I'd like to say that none of the bands that are recommended to me as being "similar to diSEMBOWELMENT" actually sound similar to them in my opinion. Bands like Evoken or Esoteric have their own melancholic/sorrowful style, which the mighty d isn't really. As Wilytank said, diSEMBOWELMENT is more mystic, heavy, spiritual and haunting. They don't have that melancholic beauty, no keyboards, no "sad" minor melody work, but actually some really raw and brutal blast beat parts and this... spiritual(?) clean guitar work.

But as sperma_draconis said, I find many funearal doom bands to be "trying too hard". I can't exactly explain why, but drenching everything in minor chords, gothic aesthetic, slow rhythms and adding tons of keyboards just feels over-the-top for me. It feels like my mind repels the atmosphere since it feels forced on me. Just like I find most "cute" animal videos rather cringeworthy once some extra happy music is added.

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sperma_draconis
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:55 am
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:20 pm 
 

DreamOfDarkness wrote:

But as sperma_draconis said, I find many funearal doom bands to be "trying too hard". I can't exactly explain why, but drenching everything in minor chords, gothic aesthetic, slow rhythms and adding tons of keyboards just feels over-the-top for me. It feels like my mind repels the atmosphere since it feels forced on me. .


Yes, but.. actually I dont see it like that. I dont see funeral doom as oversaturated by synths most often its just one single organ or piano line going VERY slowly. I personally like the color that instrumentation like synths and ESPECIALLY violins bring to the music.

HOWEVER... none of this makes a difference if the music lacks creative song craft which I think is the crux of what makes something emotional or depressing. And funeral doom again is greatly restricted by the fact that it has to be very slow in its pace.

I will povide now two examples of some doom I think is profoundly effective... one with no synths and one with and overabundance of gothic ambiance. Both are fantastic and very emotional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVR5aqpL3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyRPnrH4FU8

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Kveldulfr
Veteran

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 3616
Location: Nowhere
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:25 pm 
 

Try this. If you think it's silly or over the top, then the problem is not the doom.
https://youtu.be/IxNUCvH8rAo
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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1609
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:14 am 
 

https://offense.bandcamp.com/track/law-of-life

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1609
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:22 am 
 

And I think you'll find plenty of darkness on this one too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAKm0UTDUYc

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