A small request for whoever might be familiar with the band: I'd love to see a good sum-up of Katatonia's career, since I have the debut and the three newest albums and I wonder what's with the stuff between them. Which are really worth checking out for someone who loves the debut but finds the other, new ones acceptable and occasionally good to hear, but overall much less interesting, especially due to the lack of guitar complexity.

This thread lacks one of the greatest acts of all time, Gorefest.

Early, raw death metal era (1989 - 1994)

Starting out in 1989, Gorefest was one of Holland's earliest death metal bands who lyrically focused on death and suffering and in my opinion this era finished up in 1994 with their live album The Eindhoven Insanity which featured the best of the band up to that year.

Groovy death n' roll era (1995 - 1998)

This was the era which many fans had turned their back on the band because of how accessible their music became which in turn also made fresh, new fans of the band. Their biggest commerical success was also this era with the album Soul Survivor which was the point where no traces of their early death metal sound remained.

The bands first hiatus (1998 - 2005)

The album Chapter Thirteen which was a bit heavier than the preceeding Soul Survivor ended the bands career into a seven year break up. It however wasn't dead silent as the band was doing other things, Gorefest - To Hell and Back: A Goreography was released in mid 2005 which contained everything the band had did in their time. This proved to be very good for the band who reformed a couple months later.

Reformation of the band and also their death metal sound (2005 - 2009)

2005 was the year that bought the band back and also dropping that death n' roll sound that was overall unliked. La Muerte was released but with a cleaner death metal sound than the ealier works and also contained a more technical beginning for the band which seemed to be a bit of a hit and miss with many fans, Rise to Ruin was also released in this period which was more or less on the same page as La Muerte.

The final disbanding of Gorefest (2009 - )

This was the year that finished up the band (hopefully not forever) and in which most of the members joined/started up non metal projects which is a bit softer blow.


REALITY - is when you fucking die!

A quick question from someone who isn't familiar with them: is this actual decent music or is it Six Feet Under-type crap?

Ok, I haven’t done one of these in a long while: this time I’ll take Dimmu Borgir’s career into consideration.

The most logical way to divide up their career would be into 4 distinct phases. And the first one is the (1) early, atmospheric version of Dimmu Borgir, which essentially relied on making very melodic and real black metal, which at that time was closely inspired by the instigator of that style, Emperor. As if self-evident for those familiar with the band’s discography, the material representing this phase consists of the Inn I Evighetens Mørke demo/EP, as well as the For All Tid and Stormblåst albums. This is arguably the band’s strongest period, when they made music with nearly limitless atmosphere and integrity, as well as having very classical-inspired keyboard sections which made them unique in terms of execution if not necessarily concept (other bands did and would do similar things, but Dimmu Borgir’s approach on these two albums is still pretty much unique). Otherwise the black metal itself is pretty solid, standard early and mid-nineties stuff, nothing exceptional like what Darkthrone or Gorgoroth did around that time but still some very good stuff. Even the vocals are classic black metal fare, having little in common with Shagrath’s later performances.

After this we have what can simply be called the (2) breakthrough phase, when Dimmu Borgir went from being a relatively unknown melodic black metal band whose popularity wasn’t all that different from that of similar bands in Norway and elsewhere, to being the most popular representative of the black metal scene around the world, with all the consequences that this would entail for their integrity and image. I’ll focus this section’s attention on a single album, Enthrone Darkness Triumphant, as well as its associate EP, Godless Savage Garden, because this album is where the band’s sound shifted radically, adopting a much higher production value and writing very catchy, very melodic black metal anthems, the most evident example of this being Mourning Palace. That said, the music remained largely excellent here and, while it can be said that many signs of the band’s future evolution are present, this has a very limited effect on being able to enjoy it all. A special note should be given to the GSG EP, which is just as good as ETD and is the second pillar for this very enjoyable phase in the band’s career.

Thirdly we have the (3) transitional phase, which basically sees the band trying to find themselves and their path after the exceptional ETD/previous phase. This phase consists of two albums, Spiritiual Black Dimensions and Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia, and both are rather inconsistent and both represent a rather dismaying drop in quality, especially SBD. The problem is the band’s apparent lack of direction here, which could be due to line-up changes (bass and keyboard players were switched here) or other factors. Either way, the keyboards on SBD are a catastrophe of overuse and excess which truly makes for a tiresome and unpleasant album, which has a few of its moments but is generally to avoid. PEM is better but suffers from massive inconsistency (a nearly perfect first half and a largely deficient second half) and a mish-mash of new experimentations, including lots of Industrial elements. It’s still a pretty enjoyable album (especially that first half) but is close to the band’s absolute worst overall.

Luckily, at least the final (4) modern Dimmu Borgir phase seems to have them doing what they actually want, despite the fact that a fuckload of metalheads hate it.
This obviously consists of everything released after Death Cult Armageddon (inclusively) and it sees the band integrate their orchestral/melodic elements into the music more successfully than during the previously highlighted phase, achieving what I enjoy about this period’s music: aggressive, epic symphonic METAL. It’s fun to listen to, and that’s wherein its strength lies, and what makes this period of their music so very different from the rest of the world of black metal. Modern versions of old anthems like Mourning Palace can be seen in songs like Progenies of the Great Apocalypse and The Serpentine Offering, which are on par with the classics in terms of absolute excellence. Instrumentally this period offers some very good material both from the two original albums (DCA and ISD) and from the Stormblåst MMV re-recording, which, though considerably inferior to the original due to the absence of that haunting atmosphere (and those perfect haunting keyboard sections), is a good representation of their sound’s evolution, visible through a different interpretation of the same album a decade after its original release. Elements which appeared during the previous phase, like the extremely technical drumming, the integrated orchestra and the slight industrial influences, are still present here but integrated much more harmoniously into the whole. This is even true of the recent single, Gateways, which shows the band continuing on the path described in this section for at least another album.

It's nice to read a positive review of they're career for once, very nice.

Yeah, I like their new stuff. The staple review of their career is probably the usual "good early stuff, then medium-bad, then shit", which is a bit tiresome to be honest. Still, I don't like all their stuff a lot (that period around Spiritual Black Dimensions I like considerably less).

To return to this (rather distant) subject, each of these albums seems to symbolize an emotion or state of being in what can be now called Amorphis' newest trilogy (as you mentioned). Eclipse is raw energy, on a rather positive and happy note, symbolizing rebirth. Silent Waters is almost the exact opposite, symbolizing sadness above all with an extremely powerful aura (it's also very autumnal). And it's melancholic as fuck. And, finally (for now), Skyforger is pure happiness and symbolizes life and summer above all.

Few bands succeed in infusing such a great deal of raw feeling into their music.

Sonic Syndicate:

Early period:

Band was known as Fallen Angels where they released three demo's in a raw melodic death metal style. I'm sad that I was not aware of the band at this great stage, but hey.

Soulstone Splinter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euX6HfWJDfE



First Full Length:

The band changed name to Sonic Syndicate (one of the greatest bandnames evahr) and releases Eden Fire. Not a groundbreaking album by any means and it has some problems with the production, but it was all around likeable, pretty dark for MDM-standards and had some GREAT synths. And it's also the album that I miss the most when looking at their current state...

Prelude To Extinction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6VBtvagaxE


Second Full Length:

The band releases Only Inhuman and goes into a softer, more accessable sound and thus loses a lot of their previous fans, while still, thanks to being signed to Nuclear Blast, gains a lot more fans. This is where I discovered the band, and it's also the album that got me into metal with screaming, thus it holds a special place in my heart.

Aftermath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axo1rc50SL8


Third Full Length:

The band digs even deeper into the mainstream and releases Love And Other Disasters. Most fans of the two first albums dismiss this album, but it has more of a MDM sound than OI (thanks to being produced by Roberto Laghi) and it fits my tastes better than Only Inhuman.

Damage Control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXjOa1CgIy8


Fourth Full Length:

The band take a fucking nosedive into the styx of mainstream and releases their first album with the new singer Nathan Biggs, We Rule The Night, after the previous singer, Roland Johannsson left.

The album reeks with mid-tempo pop-rock songs, mostly because the two members that wrote all the music in the previous albums only wrote three songs this time, and drags in fans of Papa Roach and Linkin Park.

It's definetly the band's worst effort so far, with only two good songs, one of those being released on the european Digipak, and the other being one of two Japanese Bonus track.

The topping of the shitcake (a.k.a.) Turn It Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izwgb841-6I


A sad, sad turn for my very favorite band.
Here's hoping that Roger and Richard writes all the songs for their next album and that they don't remain as they are now...

I'm usually not one to really be against experimentation and modern-sounding metal, but fuck. This is dance music, crunk and metalcore all mixed together. Except for the crunk, mixing metalcore/modern melodic death metal with electronica could be cool even in commercially-directed situations, but this is really gay. This is basically emo music with more aggression and it's pretty awful, and those fucking lame rapcore-like sections.

Whoa! Excuse me while I go puke all over the place.

Yes. It's very sad.
Still, it's not ALL bad. I liked the bonus tracks on the album.

Dead And Gone is fast and catchy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVTo6-t2 ... re=related

And Heart of Eve is probably their darkest song ever since Eden Fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr1qPCgp ... re=related

Actually, Heart of Eve was, if I'm not mistaken, recorded as a single after the album was finished, which, hopefully, is a good sign of the future... Hopefully...

Dead and Gone was kind of disappointing (boring metalcore and all that, some decent instrumentals) but Heart of Eve is actually... pretty cool. It's like a cross between some Children of Bodom, some Soilwork (the better stuff, not the last few albums), some rock and a bit of, well, metalcore... Still, it's pretty good. Keyboards are well managed (that can be said of most of the instrumentals, in fact).

Wait, wait wait.... Sonic Syndicate got MORE mainstream? I've admittedly heard about 45 seconds of this band but that was all I needed.

Just to be sure I've got the right culprits, they were basically the band for everyone who found newer Soilwork too brutal and evil-sounding, right?

If someone's ideal solution to something that's "too brutal and evil-sounding" is pure metalcore, then yeah. But newer Soilwork (I'm talking about Natural Born Chaos/Figure Number Five-era, not the utter crap that came after), being the mellow melodic death metal that they were, were technically making less "aggressive" music than this Sonic Syndicate drivel I've been hearing. At least, stuff that would logically be more acceptable to the mainsteam, though, then again, metalcore and its appeal to the masses (all is relative, it's not pop) is something that tends to defy logic.

Okay, it's time to update this with information about what Abrahadabra has achieved. In short, not that much. Why? Because, much like Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia, it combines a very large amount of elements and the end result isn't always brilliant; it's a massive mix of incoherence as everything just seems thrown together. Of course, you have a considerable deal of good material: the intro, Xibir, is great. Born Treacherous is decent. Gateways is pretty cool (see my Single review). Chess With the Abyss has good instrumentals. Dimmu Borgir is actually great. The Demiurge Molecule and Endings and Continuations are also pretty damn good. But their quality is inconsistent, both amonst themselves and with the rest. At best this album is epic modern Dimmu Borgir, but not at its best; at worst it's forgettable and boring. There are way too many samples, fake choirs, shitty female vocals, weird effects and incongruous song structures for this album to actually be coherent. They tried to do too much and it resulted in an album that, though relatively enjoyable for the most part, and with its highlights, is no masterpiece and is a poor show when compared to the band's last two albums. On the good side, the orchestral sections are brilliant (especially the instrumental Gateways and the normal Dimmu Borgir) and nothing is actively bad. Just a bit disappointing in that it could have been a better album.

Perhaps my opinion will evolve differently with extra listens.

Another edit on Abrahadabra: it's not quite as bad as previously though, some of the parts are clearing up, though it still gets a bit tedious by the end. I'd probably place the album in the late 60s/early70s range right now.

Alright I'm going to cover Suffocation. Suffocation is a brutal death metal band hailing from New York and contributes most to NYDM sound.

Human Waste- The birth of the legends that would show they have talent. Even the demo versions of the sound sounded good regardless of the quality.

Effigy of the Forgotten- Had the same structure as Human Waste, just the instruments and vocals sounded much different. Probably one of their best albums.

Breeding the Spawn- This was when some prick from Malevolent Creation wouldn't let them record in a certain studio. The sound quality was bad, yet the album was still good. After this Mike Smith left the band.

Pierced from Within- This would be one of the albums that wouldn't feature drummer Mike Smith. Despite the line-up lacking Mike Smith the album was good and showed proof they could balance brutality and melody.

Despise the Sun- The most brutal demo out their. This would start the shift in sounding more brutal than melodic. After this demo the band split-up

Souls to Deny- The band reformed a few years after Despise the Sun. Mike Smith returned on the drums for this album. Guy Marchias would be the other guitarist and without Doug Cerrito the album sounded much different as if they were slowing down. There also wasn't a bassist for this album so Terrance Hobbs had to play guitar and bass.

Self-Titled- Derek Boyer joined the line-up as bassist for this album. The album was a little more brutal than Souls to Deny. Very few songs contained the intense melody from previous albums.

Blood Oath- This would mark the decline of Suffocation. The riffs were extremely slow and lacked what early Suffocation was about. It seems as if they were trying to become more deathcore like instead of what they were. The drumming didn't sound like Mike Smith was behind the drums as if he were a third rate drummer. The album also used too many breakdowns.

I don't know if it was because I was so unfamiliar with their material or because they played a majority of new songs, but when I saw Suffocation live a couple of years ago, opening for Carcass, they struck me as being very, very boring. The whole performance seemed to be completely generic "opening band" death metal; the complete opposite of Carcass' godly performance that night.

I'm not a particularly big Suffocation fan, well I'm no fan at all, barely listen to them if at all, but this strikes me as a weird comment. I mean, the "generic death metal opener", I'd understand if they were a newer band.

Its a matter of opinon. I would like suffocation and want to see them live regardless of how boring the general consensus says .

I was thinking about doing an overview of Hour of Penance.

boring =/= generic.

Actually, boring often does mean generic. If a band bores you, either live or by listening to an album, chances are you'll just dismiss them as "boring stuff like much/most of x genre".

Eh, I have to agree with Evil Johnny. Those two things aren't really mutually exclusive at all. Generic just means 'of a genre,' and even something completely original and unique can be boring. But we're splitting hairs here.

I'm on a big Slough Feg kick for the first time in a long time, so let's look at their career shall we?

Early Period (1990-1995)

The band's rough stages...an extremely unpolished, underground and un-mainstream experience for sure. Rough around the edges to the utmost extreme. The band wrote catchy medieval folk tunes interlaced with heavy, fat riffs and Maidenesque harmonies, topped off with Mike Scalzi's barbaric screaming from the vocals. They only really had one album from this period alongside a slew of demos, but the sound was still being formed here, like a protoplasmic slime slowly creeping into existence. It wasn't quite the refined heavy metal songwriting of the later days but it was always enjoyable and anthemic and cool.

Mid-Period (1999-2005)

After an absence following their eponymous debut album they came back with the hallmarks that would define their years as a band growing in popularity. In came a host of Thin Lizzy style leads, more melodic song constructions, more variety between songs and better hooks too. This was the period when the band was a growing presence in the cult metal scene. I remember it being pretty tough to find this band's stuff when I first caught onto them in 2006 - what a shock compared to the easy availability of now! Albums like Down Among the Deadmen and Traveller are still classics of heavy metal in my book, with the longevity of any of the 70s and 80s greats and a ton of new twists to make them stand out on their own. Twilight of the Idols is a real gem too, and even Atavism had some good moments, even despite being weaker than the usual fare for them.

Late Period (2007-)

You know, it really is something to watch a band grow up. With the three most recent albums the band has taken a much more hard rock styled sound, somehow still keeping a hard edge that is only identifiable as metal but having a much simpler, more laid back groove and some seriously infectious Lizzy-styled guitar licks to balance out the thumping riffs and naturalistic bass lines. This is really the sound of a band matured, and I have to say I didn't even really notice this evolution as it was happening - only in hindsight did it really become clear how far the band had come. I still think Deadmen and Traveller are their best albums, but Hardworlder is a masterpiece in its own right and their new sound is really promising. They just write some damn great songs and always have that awesome energy running.

Not really. I love Sonic Syndicate's first three albums and I listen to both Death and Black metal. Soilwork is a band that I quite frankly find very boring. I don't like their songwriting at all.

But anyways, yeah, they got more mainstream. And now that the two only people in the band who are metalheads and who actually have values and musical integrity, have decided to quit the band, due to being sick of the bullshit they've had to tolerate ever since they signed with Nuclear Blast. With NB pushing them to be more and more mainstream and finally now, be a band aimed at 14-year old girls. With these two gone, the band will undoubtly become a lot more mainstream than they are at this point even.

Richard (screamer/lyrics-writer) and Roger (guitarist/composer) have started writing material for their new project already and Richard is soon to officially annouce that he's leaving. Roger is unable to leave at the moment, for economical reasons, but will also be leaving as soon as he can.



If it had been up to Richard and Roger, this would've been the norm on the album... At LEAST. If anything, we probably would've gotten something more along the lines of Eden Fire. Sadly, Nuclear Blast wouldn't allow such a thing and didn't even allow this one song. And so, Heart of Eve wasn't even included on the album. NB made them drop it and instead write a third ballad to include on the Japanese bonus edition.

Just goes to show how crooked Nuclear Blast really is.

Good thing that both Richard and Roger will be leaving and starting a new project, where they can write whatever they want.

lol at saying Gateways is a better album than Formulas. "the monolithic Gateways to Annihilation, the best post-Covenant release"

umm... what?

give me a break. anyone with half a brain knows Formulas is far superior. i agree with you on Heretic, tho. that album was a disaster.

So I take it that this is pretty much the end of Sonic Syndicate? What little "metal" remained in the band just left. Sad, that. It's kind of like In Flames' separation from Jesper Strömblad; it simply can't be a good thing. I'm still curious, however, as to what these departures will lead to in both bands' cases, especially In Flames since I'm much more of a fan of that band thus interested in their case.

IT will definetly be the very end of metal Sonic Syndicate. They were just about there already, except for a couple songs on the new album though. The band will most likely continue on, but most likely as a pop-rock band with very little to no screaming.
In fact, certain members didn't want ANY screaming on the latest album, and now that the screaming singer has left, there will be far less of it.

As for Jesper, well he had planned to do a project with Sonic Syndicate's old clean singer, Roland Johansson, but based on later info, that will most likely never see the light of day. I don't know any more than that. Perhaps he will join Richard and Roger's new project if they decide to make it a full time band and start touring, as it is rumoured that Roland will be a part of the new project as well.

Richard's blog can be read here: http://richardsjunnesson.blogg.se/
His first blog post explains what happened.

I was wrong about Roger, though. Even though he do despise Sonic's new stuff, he will be staying for now, for economical reasons, as he don't have anything to fall back on. Hopefully, he will quit and join the new project full time eventually, as he is one of the main composers of the new material.

Read that earlier and came off with the impression the guy was a bit of a whiner. Instead of just saying he doesn't like the new direction and has decided to move on, he insults his former bandmates and rambles on for multiple paragraphs. Although I think he's partially correct (never cared for their stuff new or old though the former is especially bad), there are better ways to handle a split.

Your tone has hostility that isn't even called for, you know. I also happen to think Gateways is their best post-Covenant release, and I can assure you this has absolutely nothing to do with my brain matter.

To be honest, I can't see this new project, spawned from old Sonic Syndicate members, as something to eagerly await. Nor, by the way, am I particularly interested in Jasper's future work. He's a bit washed up, what with new In Flames' questionable integrity (though some riffs on A Sense of Purpose are great).

Helloween.

Helloween are a feel good band. This is a major point. Can metal accomodate feel good bands, that focus on the good side of life, reference God as a positive figure, and generally empower the listeners? The answer is yes.

The band themselves went through difficulties, it is a benefit to metal that they persevered and continue to record and perform.

Their eras can be summarised as follows.

(1) Hansen era - Judas Priest, Accept influenced speed metal fronted by Hansen. Helloween line up has been around since late 70's (under different names) making it one of the earliest European metal acts. Their first official release was on Death Metal split through Noise Records. Helloween EP and Walls of Jericho share similar sound of melodic speed metal marked by superb guitar work and piercing vocals of Hansen.

(2) Kiske era - After recruiting new front man Michael Kiske in 1986, the band switched to a more accessible sound with cleaner vocals and focus on structured melodic compositions. Keeper of the Seven Keys pt 1 and pt 2 was significant in introduction of 'power' metal in Europe, as in metal which empowers the listener. A performance at Donnington with Iron Maiden is a measure of band's wide spread recognition among metal fans (7th Son of 7th Son has a photo of Dickinson in a Helloween t-shirt). Two following albums Pink Bubbles Go Ape and Chameleon were recorded after Hansen's departure. These albums emphasized more mellow songs - their quality has been in question ever since.

(3) Deris era - Master of the Rings through to present. There were various line up changes, but for simplicity lets mark it as one era. I believe this is Helloween maturing, and living up to their potential. This era produced more complex at times and varied compositions which retain the X factor of Helloween's unique sound by empowering the listener, and focusing more on real world than on fantasy. The distinction of Deris' era is that while Keeper albums have been duplicated many times over, the recent entries have a more unique identity. Deris' era experimentation produced good surprises and bad, in the end I prefer this path to one of predictability with no surprises at all!

Sepultura:

Death Metal era (1984-1988)
Death/Thrash Metal era (1989-1992)
Alternative Max's Metal era (1993-1996)
Alternative Derrick's Metal era (1997-2002)
Groove Metal era (2003-Present)

I don't see him insulting his bandmembers anywhere. But anyway, I understand that it might seem like he's whining, but remember that this guy has seen the ugly face of the music industry, and on top of that, having to be in a band with some of the biggest sellout-douchebags in history.
I know of some of the stuff that happened and there's a lot of bad blood between him and certain other members. It's no wonder that he's pissed. In fact, it's a wonder he is as contained as he is about it.




Well that's understandable. Not everyone likes the same music.
Personally, I love the old Sonic Syndicate. Even nowadays, when I listen to much heavier music than when I got into them, the old S.S. still is my favorite music.
And that's why I'm so stoked about this new project.

I couldn't care less about what Jesper does though.

Boring may often mean generic,but that doesn't necessarily need to be the synonims.For example (it's not metal,but just to mention) Hatebreed IS generic,but it's not boring at all,at least in my opinion.

Back on topic:
Death's evolution:

Scream Bloody gGore:good overture in the successful Schuldiner's career
Leprosy:very good album,old school and brutal death metal,except that Rick Rozz is not particularly good guitarist,so that diminished this album a little.
Spiritual Healing:well,this was the beginning of a new era
Human:what more to say,one of the ultimate classics,just crushing progressive technical DM
Individual:same thing,but with Steve DiGiorgio's jazz ideas
Symbolic:turning to more heavy metal sound,excellent release.
Sound of Persevereance:also a good release,but a little below 3 previous.

He says they're incapable of playing decent music and sell-outs. Despite that being the truth, and a case of the pot calling the kettle black, starting up a blog to complain about it is childish. As for the "ugly face of the industry," most music fans are aware of how scummy the business is, especially on a somewhat major label like Nuclear Blast.

It's a symptom of the Internet, I suppose. Maybe the early Norwegian black metal scene would have fared better if Varg had the option of resorting to a blog war instead of homicide.

Why do I get the feeling that such a blog war would be even funnier than what he posts now?

SEPULTURA:

Early Years (with Jario T. on lead guitar) 1984-1986

LINEUP: Max Cavalera: vocals, guitar; Jario T: lead guitar; Paulo Jr: Bass; Igor Cavalera: Drums

Early death metal, primitive musicianship mostly with an emphasis on being "evil". Max and his evil, reverbed vocals. Imitating their idols, like venom, sodom, bathory, etc. Band members OK with respective instruments, but not great. Still decent at least. Bestial Devastation EP and Morbid Visions LP.

Comes Kisser, Comes Thrash 1987-1990

LINEUP: Same as above, but Andreas Kisser replaces Jario T

New lead guitarist, primitive death metal sound leaving, badass thrash sound incoming. Over the course of 2 albums, greatly improve as musicians, become more known in the metal world. Very important thrash releases. Schizophrenia LP and Beneath the Remains LP.

Critical acclaim, songwriting chops lowered just a tiny bit 1991-1992

LINEUP: Same as above

Sepultura lowers riff count per song just a bit, bit of tribal influences, Max's death metal vocals mostly gone, replaced with gruffer vocals. Bit slower songs, too. But still kicks appropriate ass. Still thrash. One of the most important thrash bands around this time. Positive reviews in underground and mainstream. Lots of touring. Arise LP.

The groove, the tribal, the nu 1993-1996/7

LINEUP: Same as above

Sepultura: out of riffs. Turn groovy, with lots of tribal intros, etc. Over time, more tribalness creeps in, more downtuning, even less riffs, jumpdafuckup lyrics, you get the point. Most of original fanbase dissapointed, to say the least. Max Cavalera kicked out in 1996/7. End of max cavalera era. Chaos AD LP and Roots LP.

Groove, hardcore, mallcore, shit, etc. 1998-now

LINEUP: Eventually, Paulo Jr ends up only original member left.

If you want to hear hardcore/mallcore with a tough guy black singer (not being racist), be my guest. But take off your Beneath the Remains shirt first...

Because it definetly would be?

He posts rather intelligent things nowadays. I haven't seen anything reprehensible published by him in the last few years. Certainly not on www.burzum.org.

Ok I promise I'll get a band's legacy down sometime before this thread turns to ashes, but I had to check this out, and wow.

That's atrociously bad, and bad as in really, really a crock of shit.