I was just listening to the new Gorgoroth album, and I noticed on the sixth track that Pest is pretty much the King Diamond of black metal.

Anyone agree?

Also, anyone think about Pest's lyrics on "Human Sacrifice"? I checked out the review I wrote, and I think I was completely wrong.

^Do you own the CD? Pest didn't write the lyrics...But no, I don't think he's "the king diamond of BM"...whatever that actually means.

King Diamond is the King Diamond of black metal.

so you mean CLEANSING FIRE? that track is 3m 13s and i couldn't hear anything like king diamond. of course maybe you did. at what point?

King Diamond Is not Black Metal..

Yes he is.

Perhaps you should edit the title since there are 4096804968 bands and people with that name...

Maybe the Lyrical Themes are related to Black metal, but the music...no.

What about early Mercyful Fate?

I agree with Kheldar, King Diamond is NOT black metal. It shares some lyrical themes but nothing more.
In the darkest-heaviest works of MF or KD are, and just in the best cases, some kind of blackened heavy metal songs... but not even an entire album.

...and what means being the King Diamond of black metal? Being kind of respected in a genre you never played?

I Consider early Mercyful Fate as Black Metal, Sure they did sound just heavy metal but there was a very Evil vibe on Melissa and Dont Break the Oath and on top of that is the Satanic Lyrics.

Hm, The Electric Hellfire Club has an evil vibe and satanic lyrics...

Well if you see, Mercyful fate is the first band to bring the satanic and evil lyrics and black metal influnce to heavy metal and then elvolved by bathory and after mayhem and norwegian black metal fellows , The thing is mercyful fate its a blackned heavy metal band !! king diamond is not properly same as mercyful fate but still got influnces !! but the sure thing both mercyful fate and king diamond arent black metal .
Hail the king .

Pest sounds pretty good on the new album. Obviously not as good as on "Under the Sign..." but I can hardly blame him for that. His singing in "Satan-Prometheus" also makes for a great moment on an otherwise mediocre album.

Mercyful Fate is surely considered an integral member of the FIRST WAVE of black metal -- most anyone that's been listening to heavy metal for the past 3 decades accepts this as absolute fact! So, while it's true that the first wave sounds nothing like Norwegian BM, it is no less authentic to the genre. Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Sodom, Venom, Death SS, Blasphemy, Possessed, ...and yes... even Slayer, all belong to this pioneering group, yet each band exhibited a signature style separate from the others (sans early Bathory which was basic Venom-worship of course).

See, back in the 80s it was more about lyrical themes and theatrics than conforming to a specific metal sound. Unfortunately, modern black metal is not afforded this same artistic freedom... you either have to sound like a Darkthrone clone or GET THE FUCK OUT. (Though in more recent times the tide is turning and progressiveness is prevailing once again!)

Back on topic... sure, Gorgoroth's Pest has a nice vocal range and all, but it's in no way comparable to KD's operatic wailing. The closest match to KD vocally might be Tearstained's Mikael Bayusik, although many BM fans, for whatever reason, hate this band. *shrugs*

Hear for yourselves...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXOmb-EAgc

I really wish we could get some context for the King Diamond comparision. Its like saying Mickey Mouse is the Bugs Bunny of cartoons.

Mercyful Fate is as black metal as Alice Cooper and Led Zeppelin are heavy metal. Those two were called heavy metal in the 70s, sure, that doesn't make them heavy metal though. Genre definitions aren't written in stone, they evolve organically with the genre.

An evil vibe doesn't constitute a black metal band, there are many bands that sound evil, but are not black metal.

Imo black metal had no meaning in its early days, because it could only be applyed to the bands themes and not to the sound. Black metal bands took the name, but they gave the name meaning and a new sound.

So...aesthetics mean more than actual content?

Doesn't really mean anything anyway. Who cares if Mercyful Fate is called black metal or not? While I'm not endorsing Gorguts being called power metal, minor things like the "KD = BM???" aren't really worth the time and effort that often fills up these threads.

In my opinion it's 50/50 -- a perfect meshing of BOTH aesthetics and musical content.

All modern black metal adheres to specific aesthetics, does it not? Listen to Burzum, then Beherit... these two bands are practically opposites musically yet both are widely considered black metal. Why you ask? Aesthetics + Metal.

Also, just because a genre has evolved, does not mean it's original contributors are abruptly invalid. If this were the case nearly ALL history could be considered invalid.

Compelling argument you've got there. I guess you win.

Fuck, what did I do?

Anyways, I've been meaning to check out the new Gorgoroth album for a while, but I haven't gotten around to it due to the extremely polarized views on it's quality. But considering Pest's relative inactivity until recent years, I'm intrigued to see how his vocals sound these days.

Well for me, i like more Pest vocals than Gaahl (not a fan of Gorgoroth). And i like it much than Gaahl,
Besides, his voice is not like King Diamond, but still a decent voice.

Gorgoroth released lyrics?

I don't really see the comparison. If anyone in black metal is gonna be compared to King Diamond, I would think of Ihsahn, Proscriptor, or Jon Nödtveidt since they can hit those high notes.

Vocalist King Diamond is black metal - Mercyful Fate was considered black metal back in the day. Stop trying to re-write history. Saying Mercyful Fate isn't black metal is like saying Venom or early Bathory aren't black metal.

Not really. Mercyful Fate is Heavy metal.

Thanks for the compelling argument. Maybe your poor understanding of proper nouns and capitalization will help you change my mind.

It is heavy metal with black metal lyrical themes.

So you don't think that the first wave of black metal is... black metal?

I dont consider Mercyful Fate to be involved in the first wave of black metal, as they are heavy metal. They strongly influenced actual black metal bands by their lyrical themes, but they are a heavy metal band.

I guess those of us that were actually listening to Mercyful Fate back in the 80s have a different understanding of what black metal is than those that didn't discover the genre until the 90s.

Allow me to fill you in...
In the 80s the term "black metal" was simply another way of saying Satanic heavy metal. The upside down crosses, corpsepaint, Satanic themes... these elements are what qualified Mercyful Fate, or any heavy metal band for that matter, to be labeled black metal. It wasn't about some specific sound or playing style. It was about ideology. As a matter of fact, early black metal encompassed all metal styles that were prevalent at that time, including speed, thrash, doom, crust, death and traditional metal.

History cannot be re-written.

Horns up!

In the 80s black metal was not a genre, it was simply a catchphrase or buzzword, have it as you will. This is exactly what you have just stated yourself. As time progressed, black metal evolved from a catchphrase into a genre. And while the catchphrase has applied to Mercyful Fate, the definition of the genre does not!. This has nothing to do with rewriting history, it has to do with defining a genre as it begins to exist as a genre, beyond a catchphrase. This works the same way animal classes and orders and other taxonomic nomenclatures are reclassified as more of their genome and taxonomic differences because more well-studied.

So, first the term black metal is used to distinguish the "evil" sounding bands from the regular heavy metal bands, then black metal evolved into a genre with its own set of predefined musical characteristics, and some bands that were previously called black metal do not match these characteristics beyond the dark themes and are therefore reclassified as part of another subgroup, as they are found to have more commonality with that other subgenre than they have with the newly defined one.

Finally, somebody said the truth.

I really think Pest has gone downhill vocally, or maybe it's just the material he had to work with here. I mean, I love Pest on Under the Sign of Hell and on the Obtained Enslavement stuff, but I don't see anything special or noteworthy on new Gorgoroth, especially the vocals.

I love how one King Diamond comparison turns into the whole King Diamond/Mercyful Fate/FWOBM argument.

I'd still like to know what the original poster meant by this comparison.
?

Gorgoroth doesn't release their lyrics, but they can be understood if you listen closely.

Yes, but what about the Kng Diamond thing- what did you mean???

Pest lost it.