I'm not a fan of seeing a live performance and hearing a major part of the sound as backing track. It seems to happen frequently whenever the guitarist/bassist is the one doing studio keyboards for the album, and the band doesn't think it's worth it to get a live keyboard player. There is also the issue of the keyboards having so many programmed tracks and layers where a live keyboard player cannot possibly recreate the sound in a concert setting. What can be done to make the live experience more genuine and less heavy on the playback?

Playback is just part of the live show these days, and it isn't just keyboards. Often, there are additional layers of guitars in there, potentially some vocals.

I'd rather see keyboards live, but I think we have to acknowledge the main issue - it's very difficult for starting bands to actually find a keyboardist to begin with. So another member fills in on keys in studio, or programs them via MIDI. By the time a band gets somewhere (which tends to take years these days), they've likely been thinking 'it ain't broke, so don't fix it' for quite some time and just stick to the backing tracks.

A band will probably have to put up with their drummer being in anywhere from 2-5 other bands, so having to juggle things around one member is bad enough. While it's certainly not universal, I've found metal's dedicated keyboardists to be infuriatingly fussy. It's much easier just to program them instead, whereas it's difficult, nigh on impossible for most types of metal bands, to have programmed drums live.

I'd prefer for a band with lots of keys and synths to also have a musician playing it live rather than from a backing track, but there are two reasons why this is unfeasable.
Basically I agree with Dr_Funf. Firstly there are very very few dedicated musicians playing keys in the metal space. I've played in bands for quite a while, and I have never met a keyboardist/pianist who plays metal. Secondly, most would end up programming it and just never end up adding a keyboard player, for the same reasons that Funf mentioned.

there's a certain tier where bands can and should be able to find someone willing to play their keyboard parts on tour for them, but then you have to consider whether it's worth it to pay an entire extra salary to someone to play parts that many times are in the background, and/or were never actually played by a human or written with the intention of being played. that's why you'll find the bands who DO have keys players who tour with the bands (guys like Dream Theater, Symphony X, or Gloryhammer, for instance) really make them prominent in the sound; having solos or riffs to themselves vs. just being background noise filling out the mids.

I think it depends. If a band uses keyboards heavily then I do think it's odd that they don't have a keyboardist in the band. But as a backing track I'm usually fine with it. Same if a band uses orchestrion. Having an orchestra on stage probably isn't feasible so that makes sense. Where I draw the line though is anything other than keyboards/orchestra. If you're using guitar tracks/vocals then I begin to question if everything else is even live in the first place. I think there's some bands out there that definitely overuse backing tracks as a crutch for shoddy musicianship.

I never knew if Edguy was joking or not when they said their keyboardist was off the stage. Maybe it was a backing track? If it was an actual human playing back there, it makes you wonder why they'd be left off stage (unless the person themselves had some sort of performance anxiety?)

Iron Maiden has done this for decades. I don’t think performance anxiety plays any part of it, I think it’s the idea of the band acknowledging the visual representation of what fans expect the band to be. If I had to guess.

On topic, call me an old man, don’t care, I am against backing tracks in general principle. Hire a keyboardist. I am 100% a proponent of the idea of including on the ticket broker site and tickets themselves a disclaimer along the lines of “portions of the performance contain pre-recorded material”. I think consumers need to know this in advance so that informed decisions can be made. Once tracks are introduced, it’s not a “live” performance because pre-recorded material is inherently not “live”. It’s a multimedia entertainment show at that point. I’m not interested in any rebuttals to this and can’t/won’t be convinced otherwise.

That said, I do begrudgingly suck it up if I see a band and it’s obvious they use tracks and I’m not already aware it’s the case; I’m not really given a much of a choice, am I? Most times though, if I am aware going in that a band uses tracks, I skip going entirely. And if I do go, I accept I will be taking in a multimedia entertainment show rather than a live performance.

EDIT for further clarification: While I’m not the hugest fan of it per se, I do not consider what Rush did-triggering short audio samples with carefully timed individual hits-to be analogous to playing along to tracks. At least in this case, hitting each triggering mechanism at the right time over and over again requires some degree of performative aspect, or physical consideration as to when the triggering mechanism(s) need to be hit. I know Rush isn’t the only example of this approach, but might be the most famous.

2nd EDIT: I only make these considerations for rock and metal bands who primarily hold themselves to or present themselves as an otherwise organic bass/drums/guitar/vocal bands. I don’t consider this for bands or artists whose music is primarily electronic/industrial/synthetic in nature. I would not expect bands like Nine Inch Nails, Garbage, Perturbator, etc. to have musicians cover every single part during live shows as I do not view bands like these as organic rock/metal bands, these bands are electronic/synthetic in nature with occasional rock/metal elements.

Not that many Maiden songs feature keyboards (especially the ones they play live), so maybe Michael Kenney being offstage was to eliminate the awkwardness of either idly standing there during some songs or continuously exiting and re-entering the stage when needed.

Yeah me too. Maybe why I'm more into newer bands that are more stripped down. I doubt Necrot is going to need to play some backing tracks.

Live isn't quite as live as it used to be.

Type O pulled it off very well. Josh was excellent live and was able to recreate the album synths near perfectly on stage. And Type O are VERY synth heavy.

I always found it odd that bands like Paradise Lost and Anathema eschewed a permanent keyboard player given how integral their sound synths are. Same for Fear Factory. Not sure if these bands have a live keyboard player, but the one time I saw PL live it was just the five of them which was disappointing.

If backing tracks aren't for you, then it's fair enough if you don't want to watch bands live if they're using them. Saying they should hire a keyboardist isn't that simple when hiring a keyboardist is exactly the problem. As I said in my earlier post, dedicated metal keyboardists are sparse, and anything other than an established band is going to have some difficulty finding one to begin with. By the time a band is established, they'd be questioning why they'd need to add an additional member, further dividing their already meagre earnings, when backing keyboard tracks have been fine in getting them that far. I don't think enough people would share your viewpoint that it would make a considerable difference in expanding a band's fanbase.

Certain sub-genres, yes. It is a bit silly if a symphonic metal band or a keys-heavy power metal band had backing tracks.



Yeah, Type O could never have worked without Josh. Paradise Lost, though, while I haven't listened to their entire discography, from the albums I do have, I don't think they need a permanent keyboardist at all. Gregor apparently briefly switched to playing keys live during their electronic era in the late 90s, so I guess that counts as having one when it really mattered.

I don't really understand the obsession with perfectly recreating your music live. Unless keyboards are absolutely key (!) to your sound like Type O Negative or one of those embarrassing Eurometal bands with a singer that dresses like Galadriel, who cares? Get creative, rearrange shit, play it differently. Have fun with it, live a little you cowards. If you're gonna give me a live experience that just sounds like the record, I'd rather stay at home and listen to the record. It's cheaper for me and a lot less tiring because I'm old and can't stay up late anymore.

I really like Insomnium's albums, but it was pretty disappointing to see them play live with all the keyboards relegated to backing tracks (and it sounded like some of the clean vocals were doubled with tracks as well). I'd rather a band sound a little rough than resort to that stuff. Enslaved also played that night, and they had a keyboardist and managed to do their vocals live, imperfections and all. They were the better band for it too.

Unless it's only a very small part of your sound, get someone to play it live, rearrange your songs so they don't need it (play the keyboard parts on guitar with a MIDI keyboard pedal, play them without it entirely, write some other lead parts for shows, whatever), or don't expect me to go see you live. I am fine with seeing something that doesn't sound just like the album if it means not paying tickets to see half the performance be fucking pre-recorded. If half the music is pre-recorded the ticket better be half the price.

I was really struck by how important having a live keyboardist can be for some bands when I saw Equilibrium perform at Bloodstock fest in 2009. I was a huge fan of the band at the time and their sound is extremely keyboard-heavy. It was a massive bummer that they had a backing track playing for all those epic keyboard lines and melodies. In fact it completely sapped the life out of their performance for me.

Now, with artists who are less keyboard-heavy I think the backing track can be fine. However, it's just bizarre to use one if the keyboard is a prominent part of the sound.

Anathema indeed featured a live keyboardist, Daniel Cardoso, the last decade, or so, of their existence. I don't think they did in their earlier days. But they were essentially a different band by this time.

I brought this up before, but what do you think of metal bands utilizing two keyboardists? I know Alestorm probably does this. Surprised there aren't too many symphonic metal bands that are utilizing this very often.

I mean, if they need it and can afford it, I don’t see why not. Most orchestrations in metal aren’t polyphonic enough that a single keyboardist wouldn’t be able to play them either by setting up layers and splits, though.




This. Miss me with that backing track bullshit, either hire a performer or re-arrange the music. I’ll even take samples/loops triggered in real time (usually by the drummer), but I don’t like shows played to tracks or clicks. If I’m watching a band play live, I wanna see the performers listen and interact with each other.

There's a few aspects to the Maiden thing.

Firstly, they did have a keyboard player for exactly one gig sometime around 1978. Everybody thought it wasn't a fit, and so they went their separate ways. Interestingly, that same keyboard player opened for Steve's British Lion project tour a few years back.

Secondly, the band witnessed the back lash faced by the likes of Judas Priest using synths in their music. While Somewhere in Time does have synths, it's not as heavy in use as Turbo was. Metal at the time was almost viewed as the antithesis of pop music by the fans, which was very keyboard and synth driven at the time, and Maiden embraced that image. The result of this was when keyboards were used (Seventh Son), which was sparingly initially in Maidens case, the keyboard player would be off stage, so as to not smear the image of Maiden as one of those "keyboard" bands.

I remember the documentary video where Bruce Dickenson is destroying some poor fan who is telling him of his heavy metal keyboards ideas by telling him you can't have keyboards in heavy metal.

Poor kid.

You do what you have to I guess? If the band can't have a keyboardist live for whatever reason I think it's unfortunate (money, time, schedule, etc.), but it doesn't kill the band or anything.

On the flip side, recently someone posted videos from Bruce Dickinson's current live band and they have a keytar player who does some of the guitar solos. It sounds awesome and they are obviously super talented. Something like that for me definitely elevates a performance in a way you only get from a live context.

Keytars are an underrated option for keyboard players outside of cheesy power metal. Give me more keytars in my dope riffy heavy metal instead of hiding a keyboard player off to the side!

It depends on the importance that keyboards have in the music, for example if I was watching a Nocturnus or a Children of Bodom concert (which I can't because those bands don't exist anymore, but you got me) I wouldn't like listening to the keyboard parts in a playback tape since the keyboard is a protagonist in the music. But if the bands only use keyboards for intros and don't really use them in the actual songs, I wouldn't mine them having playback tapes and some kind of recording of those parts to play live.

Backing tracks are fucking awful. I'd rather have a band playing a well though out "live" version of their stuff with zero backing tracks instead. Seems like bands are too concerned about sounding like in the studio which kinds of defeats the whole point of a live show. That's why, as much as I love bands like Hulder in the studio, I don't look forward to seeing them live as their shows are pretty much staring at a group of people following along a 45 minute backing track. They might as well just air guitar and no one will notice. Witnessing how they aren't even capable of playing their own arpegios on their own guitars pisses me off to no end... I mean, you've got a FUCKING GUITAR right there, can't you just, like, play it???
Likewise, there's bands like Necrot or Goatwhore I don't enjoy as much in the studio as seeing them live.

That said, get on the level of Mystifier, hands down one of the best live bands I've ever seen. They consist of three guys, one of which plays the bass, a keyboard and does vocals at the same time!! And some times they'll even ask you for songs...

This is the net result of internet/social media culture. Allowing everyone to spew opinions on social media and comment sections without recourse gave rise to the echo chamber idea that bands “suck live” if they don’t sound exactly like the record or are “sloppy” if bands ad lib/improvise or don’t play to a click. Bands likely feel that pressure and that it’s a threat to their career if they continue to get negative feedback online, so they cowtow.

But it’s a trash viewpoint. Stay home and listen to the fucking record, then.

I’m sure that there are people out there who are commenting right now about how sloppy Led Zeppelin is on a video of a 50ish year old performance. Led Zeppelin, by all accounts, was one of the greatest live bands of all time, but they supposedly “suck” because they didn’t sound exactly like the record in 1974. Get the fuck out of here with that.

This man gets it.

I've been saying for years a company needs to come out with a double neck keytar/guitar hybrid. It would be a game changer for so many bands.

Seen something like this a few years ago when I saw a power metal band called Immortal Guardian live.

Spoilered due to size:


Takes a lot of coordination, which I think was a big part of the appeal for this band live.

On the other hand, not every band with loose/"sloppy" live performances is Led fucking Zeppelin.

Generalizing "unfaithful" live performances as inherently bad or inherently good are both kinda goofy positions.

some styles also lend themselves to playing more loose and "sloppy" than others. Led Zep is such a band. someone like say, Nile? less so.

1000%. Slough Feg being sloppy live? Endearing and clearly them keeping it loose instead of them being bad at what they do. A band like Coroner? Yeahhhhhhh tighten up or don't bother, haha

I saw Dimmu Borgir live on tour with Enslaved 13 or 14 years ago in Las Vegas, and it was not long after they had parted ways with ICS Vortex. It was definitely weird to have his parts playing in the background, including his vocals, without him present on stage. It was still a neat show, but I would've preferred that someone else had covered those parts, even if it ended up sounding way different.