Hello guys. I am a fan of black metal for a very long time now, but I can not get around some bands, like burzum or satanic Warminster. Is this normal, or should I try to split them from their music?

Separating the art from the artist is not entirely possible, if at all. This is not just a naivistic painting of a clown:


Knowing who made it entirely changes the meaning and impact of it. Those who listen to music "just for the riffs" are always somehow intellectually and emotionally dishonest. "Just for the riffs" NSBM listeners wouldn't listen to a black metal band that looked like this. They see the symbols on the covers and they display them with pride in their "nice haul bro" threads. They, at the very least, find them edgy and cool. Listening to it makes them feel special. Then there are those who are just nazis, plain and simple, and dishonest about it.

You draw the line for yourself. Even if it's not always possible, try to be logically sound and at the very least be honest about it.

this must has been answered billions times, I guess, but... we all got limits, the objective ones are the law, then it's about morality. Your own morality is built from your culture, reading, psychology, philosophy, justice.... and this lead you to feel what's done and transmitted by any form of culture. Every artwork got his feeling, history, cultural heritage. If I'm listening to Carcass, to Mottley Crue, or to Agathocles, the feelings are completely different. That's where you should feel something of course, if you see no difference you're in lack of understanding. When I do listen to Immolation I feel something benevolent, friendly. When listening Malevolent creation I feel something a bit tougher, but still ok to me. When I listen to something that makes me feel bad I do check what's wrong and usually it's all about the intention, the cultural heritage and the feelings spreaded by the bands. Same, if you read Celine you'll notice some harshness, right? The same goes for music or anything. I'm reading with a distance. A distance I won't have reading any swedish proletrain writer, where I will feel good and safe. But opening Hitler's I will be totally unconfortable.
That's what you need to be able to feel with not only reading but music.
Then, i you do listen to something out of your range, you know it, you got distance. Or you can simply avoid. Noone told anyone to listen every bands in a genre just because it's ...(what?). That's where you fix your own limits.

and yes CD16 is right, people saying "it's only music" are 100% talking about right hand bands, they will never say that same listening obviously left hand bands, this is where hypocrisy is revealed

I'll generalize here (maybe overgeneralize for some people): Listen to your instinct, the "gut feeling", and follow that.

and be sure that you'll miss some, we all do mistakes (or got info later, who will blame him-herself for listening Saxon or Manowar?)

100% of statistics in topics like this are pulled out of people's buttholes.
You really think everybody who likes Minor Threat avoids alcohol and premarital sex? Napalm Death, GISM, and scores of other influential left-leaning/anarchist/etc bands in punk and grindcore are widely popular among people who don't care at all about politics, and among quite a few people who don't abstain from nationalist black metal/Burzum/Morrissey/insert scary artist here. You're just incorrect.

Left wing black metal is often dismissed, but basically for the same reason a MAGA hardcore punk band or a nazi rapper would be dismissed by everybody: there's an automatic assumption of cultural tourism, an assumption the artist is trying to artificially inject their worldview into a genre to make it palatable for people who are otherwise wary of the subculture. Basically there's an assumption the music is in service of agitprop, not vice-versa.

I think you can separate them, but only in the way that you can acknowledge that sometimes terrible people can make great music. Nothing wrong with it. Rosemary's Baby still holds up, The Smiths make good stuff, a lot of these black metal acts have quality material...

It's lame to be one of these guys who just turns on something as soon as it's revealed that the artists did something awful - "I never liked them," OK then, sure. That said, it also sucks that all of these debates will have some bad faith actors pretending to be neutral while really just trying to assert some of their own politics or whatever in there. The "I just like the riffs" thing - when they continually keep downplaying it...

I was pretty hardline about all this for a long time, but really there became too many instances and too many different things to keep watching out for. New scandals and bigotries coming out all the time. Eventually I think I just learned to stop being insecure about my own politics. Especially with all the free time during Covid, I started to see art in new ways and it was obvious that it was limiting to bring too much politics into the pure enjoyment of it. I like music and there's something to be said for just letting it affect you for a while, doesn't mean you have to apologize for the creators.

I finally had to listen to Inquisition again after years of not doing it, and they still hold up as well as they used to - it's just that now there is this unfortunate kinda queasiness to it. But the music doesn't become worthless.

—Friedrich Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals

Why wouldn't it be possible? If you ask me, it's basically self-evident that it is entirely possible (have you not come across any people who just don't care?).

There are two overarching issues that tend to get conflated in discussions like this one.

1) Separate the art from the artist - when the artist has done or said things that a person finds unacceptable or whatever. The thing here is that factors outside the music itself are the focal point; as I said, this is a pretty common thing for people to be uninterested in, albeit in varying degrees. For example, I don't care all that much about such things; as long as the lyrics don't present crap that gets my blood boiling, or as long as stage aesthetics made me retch for one reason or another, I'm fine with listening to stuff. This is how I engage with music most of the time; truth be told, there are instances when the association was simply too strong, but in most cases I simply don't associate a specific, flesh-and-blood person with what I am listening to. I'm listening to swathes of guitar, drums pounding away, rumbling bass and inhuman vocalization, as an example. Lyrics are absolutely a part of the deal for me, but most of the time there's no personal association centered on the people behind the instruments. When I listen to Incantation's debut, I don't ever think of, not even for a second, either John McEntee or Craig Pillard.

As a personal aside, I have absolutely no qualms with people who'd think of Pillard the moment "Golgotha" begins, and say "fuck this shit I'm out". Or people who do make this kind of connection when listening to music. That's entirely subjective in the most meaningful sense of the term. However, once you get to adopting this position as the only viable one, either in terms of morals or in other terms (I could see someone arguing that failing to take this into account also constitutes shallow engagement with music, more on which below), then things get a bit tricky. Long story short, I disagree with that.

2) Separate the lyrics from the music - this happens constantly too, but it something I cannot really understand. It's a shallow approach to engaging with music that simply discards one aspect, puts it aside. It's not that I generally think metal lyrics are very significant in themselves, but they simply are a part of the whole deal, sometimes a really significant one at that. There's absolutely no chance in hell I'll be able to listen to stuff like Fanisk and not be antagonized beyond belief.

Those aspects need separating themselves.

Oh yeah, OP asks should they do this separation. Giving the benefit of the doubt, assuming its not a troll thread, I'd say this is a very misleading question because it presupposes that it is an option just like either buying a Coke or a Pepsi at the store is. For one thing, lifelong Pepsi admirers (take a swing at me, c'mon) are predisposed in a specific way that framing this situation in terms of completely free choice is very simplistic and not that useful. This holds true I think even more for this specific issue. If you're constantly reminded about Kristian Vikernes when listening to Burzum, what could you even do to begin separating the music from the Vikernes?

Not much, I'd say.

well, before claiming that amount of certainty you could think twice or ask for details.... First of all your comparison with Minor threat is out of purpose, we don't mean here to follow blindly all sort of lyrics. The fact is I often see people saying "that's only music" when talking of rightwing bands lyrics. Maybe these people could listen ND or any other "whdaisaid???" band you could tell. But there's tons of bands claiming leftwing ideas all around, just shitty bands like Rage against the machine, and a bunch of french punk is clearly sung with antifa lyrics. Give me one guy who will sing "no pasaran" or "Porcherie" while claiming nazi shit ?

correct/incorrect is far too much absolute certitude imho

oh boy your nickname I can't tell for my english's shit but for skrewdriver in your preference I now you're not innocent here, typical example of what I'm saying, ridiculous "only music matter (as long it's rightside)" hidden behind a thin pilar

Should we separate all products from it's creators? Does it apply to clothes, food, games, gas, smartphones etc?



What does Saxon and Manowar have to do with this?

welll... morality maybe ?

this is the kind of thing you alone decide. Nobody's gonna handfeed you your ethics. It's only gonna get more complicated from here and there isn't a rule book on this stuff. You're gonna have to make choices on what you believe using your values and judgement therefrom.

Of course. Enjoy the music, that's all there is to it.

I do. I don't follow artists, I follow music. I don't care about these people in the least let alone their views on issues or politics. Many of them are assholes. Others put on an asshole persona. There's some genuinely cool and nice guys. But that doesn't mean I'm interested into digging into their lives, it won't be long till you find something disagreeable.

I know we all need and look for leaders, or exemplars but take it for what it is. So-and-so is a great guitarist/drummer/songwriter/frontman. But that's it. It doesn't make it him a great person or human being or someone to be emulated, or someone whose views should determine yours.

Now of course we all may have some red line, that we won't tolerate crossing. And if so-and-so starts spewing vile stuff or has committed heinous acts, then sure, divorce yourself, so to speak, and move on.