Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
coldflamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:20 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:08 pm 
 


Direct link to the playlist

Link to the text file converted from the Spotify playlist (there’s no Excel sheet with actual ratings documented this time, as I intend to continue updating bits and pieces of it with new data when I feel like it).

Hello, again. Some may remember me and my obsessive compiling tendencies from resources like Top 500 Metal Tracks.

A task I embarked on way back in 2021 was gather top 5 songs for each metal band considered important, influential or enjoying great success. The original list, which I revisited to update from time to time, had about 200 bands which formed some manner of ‘RYM metal canon’, featuring the classics everybody loves and holds dear, some underground favourites but also the reviled ‘hipster metal’ that has always found popularity within the site and for good reason, matching the values sought after by RYM users.

Working on the idea of extending the list further in the last few months got me to where I am right now, with 3,336 songs currently present on the Spotify playlist for what arithmetics would suggest should be about 666-667 bands – the former number would be very symbolic and appropriate, but I didn’t set out to arrive at any particular band count at the end of the journey.

Two important questions to address would be: “what makes a band ‘significant?” and also “what makes a band metal?”

For the former, I generally stopped paying attention to bands on charts when the ratings for albums went below 1K and the average got pretty low. There’s no exact benchmark, as one would be impossible – can a band with a single album with 1K ratings be considered more important than one with five albums with 7-8 hundred ratings each? Probably not. By the way, the original list from 2021 featured no bands with only one full-length release or only one full-length album that was held in high esteem. I went further than that. Some bands considered less refined (say, Linkin Park) in music geek circles have way lower averages for albums than would render them eligible for the list, often the reviled alternative and nu metal bands from the 00s. They have however been somewhat reevaluated with the passing of time, some of said bands boasting the same or even higher track ratings than very, very many underground favourites (whose followers likely couldn’t care to spell out which tracks are the best on relevant releases) and way more actual ratings due to the controversy over their potential music value. I consulted a few lists online to give me a list of important metal over the last couple decades, generally not yielding me any particularly new additions or discoveries and mostly just confirming what I already had. I had to be objective.

As for what is and isn’t metal, hoo boy. I was as inclusive as possible, adding proto-metal-like hard rock, glam metal, nu metal, blackgaze, metalcore and many things frowned upon in places like this website. I started the list with Black Sabbath before indulging in Hard Rock as much as possible.

Some hard choices had to be made while making the top 5s. e.g. a band has a lot of album ratings but very few track ratings, with some acclaimed albums have inexplicably low track ratings for what to most fans (when I know enough to tell myself) signify the band’s best known work. At times, I just followed the numbers, at other times I included the highest-rated track (or two) from the big releases. Then you’d have the bands who have a lot of albums people have enjoyed, and there’s one record with 200 ratings on each track, while the other albums in the discography haven’t been hyped and have 20-50 ratings depending on the release. In this situation, I would usually feel having more ratings is more important. I treated my approach as more of an art than a science, so there wasn’t an exact way I did things.

The value of such a list is obviously the tremendous freedom of discovery it bestows. I started making it for myself back in 2021, and plan to keep it in a form I’d enjoy myself, and am excited about filling gaps in my knowledge of the genre and artists performing in styles I haven’t given enough time as of yet. With each band being limited to 5 songs only, there’s no threat of the likes of Sabbath or Metallica dominating the top list too much. However, some names will still stand out, for instance, bands having multiple individual projects under different names (say, motW and Kayo Dot, or Sabbath and H&H) or solo projects (Maiden and Dickinson; Priest and Halford, you name it). The balance shifts much further when you consider that certain bands have far longer tracks than others.

But, there’s tons of room for personal research and serendipity when you want to discover new material in the genre, and it’s fun to shuffle the list for random surprises each new listen.

It also offers some room for discussion and commentary. Are your favourite bands’ best tracks appropriately acknowledged? Perhaps the existence of this list will encourage more people to go out there and rate the songs they consider to be the pinnacle of a band’s output.

Lastly, with criteria as arbitrary and all-encompassing as the ones I came up with, bands are bound to be missing. If you see glaring omissions on the list, be sure to let me know that a band in question deserves to make the list.

Thought it was important to post it here, as people on the forums can be expected to have the best perspective on what significant and/or influential metal bands might still be missing from the list.

Top
 Profile  
linkavitch
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 305
Location: Korea, South
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:05 am 
 

Interesting list, but I am greatly disappointed Big Balls wasn't chosen for AC/DC.

Top
 Profile  
Non Euclidean
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:21 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:09 pm 
 

Interesting list. There are a lot of bands I haven't even heard of, actually. A few of things though: Skid Row is listed twice with the same songs just in a different order; Spectral Lore only has four songs listed; Mare Cognitum has six songs listed.

Top
 Profile  
coldflamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:20 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 11:32 am 
 

linkavitch wrote:
Interesting list, but I am greatly disappointed Big Balls wasn't chosen for AC/DC.


That would be a... big ball choice! Whoa! :hyper:

Non Euclidean wrote:
Interesting list. There are a lot of bands I haven't even heard of, actually. A few of things though: Skid Row is listed twice with the same songs just in a different order; Spectral Lore only has four songs listed; Mare Cognitum has six songs listed.


Thanks for spotting the double Skid Row entry. Fixed it by removing the old one.

Spectral Lore / Mare Cognitum is an unusual case because the two had a major collaboration album, and songs from the record were good enough to make it to both the bands' top 5s. However, Spotify chooses a different band to display as the primary one depending on the song, meaning you've got an uneven distibution when only one band has to be shown.

Top
 Profile  
MetlaNZ
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 5:30 pm 
 

List is too long, too many songs per band and definitely some questionable choices of bands included.
When I saw the picks for Celtic Frost, I was like WTF, then I saw the picks for Dark Angel and I was like WTFF and the picks for Slough Feg were like WTFFF, then I puked and said fuck this shitty list to hell.

Top
 Profile  
SanPeron
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
Posts: 1108
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 6:47 pm 
 

Man 3000 songs for any playlist is just too long to me, but good for you if you enjoyed doing this.
_________________
Social Justice, Economic Independence and Political Sovereignty, in order to achieve the permanent objectives of the Movement: the Happiness of the People and the Greatness of the Nation.

Top
 Profile  
Oxenkiller
Veteran

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 3633
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 7:50 pm 
 

Interesting list; I'm guessing the bands are arranged chronologically as well as alphabetically.
Way too many songs to comment on which should or shoudn't be included, and it's all a matter of taste anyway.

Top
 Profile  
coldflamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:20 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2024 7:47 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
List is too long, too many songs per band and definitely some questionable choices of bands included.
When I saw the picks for Celtic Frost, I was like WTF, then I saw the picks for Dark Angel and I was like WTFF and the picks for Slough Feg were like WTFFF, then I puked and said fuck this shitty list to hell.


Just had a look at the data for the Celtic Frost top 5, which I'd last updated all the way back in 2022. Progeny and Into the Crypts of Rays are no longer in the top 5, having been replaced by Circle of the Tyrants and The Usurper. The top 3 still consists entirely of the three songs from Monotheist, and the legendary album is not represented by a single track, which seems like a pattern for much 80s metal that isn't Metallica, Maiden or Priest. There are no highly-rated Venom songs, for example, and Mercyful Fate only have two songs in the Metal Top 500. I think one might be... too young to properly appreciate this music?

On a closer inspection, this is what the full list of top metal songs from the 80s looks like.

72 songs out of 500 isn't too bad, honestly, especially considering that much of the material was not that refined, and the ratings reflect appeal to the listener in question casting the vote rather than impact on the genre.

What do you dislike about the Dark Angel top 5 exactly? I listened to that when I was a teen for the first time and I still can't think of many things better than the title track from Darkness Descends...

Don't know anything about Slough Feg, I'm afraid.

Oxenkiller wrote:
Interesting list; I'm guessing the bands are arranged chronologically as well as alphabetically.
Way too many songs to comment on which should or shoudn't be included, and it's all a matter of taste anyway.


Yep, that's correct! Should've specified that earlier.

I figured I should include as much as I can for the most inclusive list. Yes, we may frown upon nu-metal but I personally think we might take it too far when we deem Deftones, Tool, BTBAM and the like completely unrelated to the umbrella genre's sound and its characteristics or values. And it's hard to argue that there's some overlap between Limp Bizkit or Marilyn Manson fans and traditional metal listeners. The former probably converted to liking Pantera and Sabbath at some point of their musical journey. It's more considerable than the weak link between appreciating true kvlt metal and expressing a preference towards indie / hipster sounds under the metal tag (I'm sure said overlap still exists, say, among RYM users and probably users here who like to enjoy music without restraints, though).

Putting this in bold so that everyone skimming or reading this or that post or paragraph can see,

Is there any truly important metal missing from the list?

So far with some help from RYMers, I've pinpointed Virgin Steele and Atrocity as deserving inclusion. Don't really understand how I left out the former.

Top
 Profile  
MetlaNZ
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:16 pm 
 

coldflamer wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
List is too long, too many songs per band and definitely some questionable choices of bands included.
When I saw the picks for Celtic Frost, I was like WTF, then I saw the picks for Dark Angel and I was like WTFF and the picks for Slough Feg were like WTFFF, then I puked and said fuck this shitty list to hell.


Just had a look at the data for the Celtic Frost top 5, which I'd last updated all the way back in 2022. Progeny and Into the Crypts of Rays are no longer in the top 5, having been replaced by Circle of the Tyrants and The Usurper. The top 3 still consists entirely of the three songs from Monotheist, and the legendary album is not represented by a single track, which seems like a pattern for much 80s metal that isn't Metallica, Maiden or Priest. There are no highly-rated Venom songs, for example, and Mercyful Fate only have two songs in the Metal Top 500. I think one might be... too young to properly appreciate this music?

On a closer inspection, this is what the full list of top metal songs from the 80s looks like.

72 songs out of 500 isn't too bad, honestly, especially considering that much of the material was not that refined, and the ratings reflect appeal to the listener in question casting the vote rather than impact on the genre.

What do you dislike about the Dark Angel top 5 exactly? I listened to that when I was a teen for the first time and I still can't think of many things better than the title track from Darkness Descends...

Don't know anything about Slough Feg, I'm afraid.

Not really sure where to start...
"I think one might be... too young to properly appreciate this music?" Is this directed at me or yourself?
As for DA, CF and TLWSF and countless others, If you're getting all this data and compiling top 5's from fuckin Spotify then I'm done here coz that's hopeless.
Oh and Black Flag are on that list for top metal songs of the 80's?! So yeah can't take this seriously, been a larf, over and out.

Top
 Profile  
coldflamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:20 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:58 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
coldflamer wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
List is too long, too many songs per band and definitely some questionable choices of bands included.
When I saw the picks for Celtic Frost, I was like WTF, then I saw the picks for Dark Angel and I was like WTFF and the picks for Slough Feg were like WTFFF, then I puked and said fuck this shitty list to hell.


Just had a look at the data for the Celtic Frost top 5, which I'd last updated all the way back in 2022. Progeny and Into the Crypts of Rays are no longer in the top 5, having been replaced by Circle of the Tyrants and The Usurper. The top 3 still consists entirely of the three songs from Monotheist, and the legendary album is not represented by a single track, which seems like a pattern for much 80s metal that isn't Metallica, Maiden or Priest. There are no highly-rated Venom songs, for example, and Mercyful Fate only have two songs in the Metal Top 500. I think one might be... too young to properly appreciate this music?

On a closer inspection, this is what the full list of top metal songs from the 80s looks like.

72 songs out of 500 isn't too bad, honestly, especially considering that much of the material was not that refined, and the ratings reflect appeal to the listener in question casting the vote rather than impact on the genre.

What do you dislike about the Dark Angel top 5 exactly? I listened to that when I was a teen for the first time and I still can't think of many things better than the title track from Darkness Descends...

Don't know anything about Slough Feg, I'm afraid.

Not really sure where to start...
"I think one might be... too young to properly appreciate this music?" Is this directed at me or yourself?
As for DA, CF and TLWSF and countless others, If you're getting all this data and compiling top 5's from fuckin Spotify then I'm done here coz that's hopeless.
Oh and Black Flag are on that list for top metal songs of the 80's?! So yeah can't take this seriously, been a larf, over and out.


It's not directed at either one of us. Got lots of Mercyful Fate favourites myself (not that it necessarily makes me an 80s metal expert, and there are only so many things you can be before your life is over). I meant that RYM users might be too young to have the same amount of classic metal appreciation as some other guys, who might on average be older. It didn't stop the same users from rating Bowie and the Beatles very highly, though, so this is pure speculation.

No no no. The data comes from users' ratings over at RYM. There is no other source quite like it, I think. Spotify is my outlet for putting this data into a list that can be viewed, studied and, perhaps most importantly, listened to in any way any given person desires. I think anyone can learn or surmise a lot from it, wouldn't you agree?

Just checked the Black Flag case... So My War is the one album of theirs that carries a major Sludge Metal tag. This however applies to the last three tracks on that album and no other ones, including the opening title track which did make the cut for Top 500. I guess you might say it shouldn't be on the list, and I should look add a different song to the list to reflect that. However, this also brings to my attention that Black Flag have to be added to the very Top 5 Metal Songs list this thread is dedicated, too. Also making a note for it.

While I guess your outburst is metal af and humorous to boot, this is kinda the input that I'm reading with great attention and acting upon.

Top
 Profile  
MetlaNZ
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:15 pm 
 

Looks I'm not quite over and out yet. If your data comes from RYM and it doesn't include songs from Scream Bloody Gore, To Mega Therion, Into The Pandemonium, Leave Scars, Time Does Not Heal, Down Among The Deadmen, Twilight Of The Idols and it includes Black Flag* then it's useless. How the fuck is Black Flag a "Major Metal Band"?
Using Celtic Frost as an example, when I looked before there were 4 songs from Monotheist and only Into The Crypts of Rays to represent their classic early run, this highlights a glaring flaw in all this. The 5 songs are not selected using critical thinking but popularity at that time, which once again makes the list useless as a resource because it's so lopsided and could give people the wrong impression of some of the bands.

One last thing (again), why the fuck is Gloves Of Metal not on the list?!

*Note: I'm a huge Black Flag fan.

Top
 Profile  
coldflamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:20 am
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2024 11:56 am 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Looks I'm not quite over and out yet. If your data comes from RYM and it doesn't include songs from Scream Bloody Gore, To Mega Therion, Into The Pandemonium, Leave Scars, Time Does Not Heal, Down Among The Deadmen, Twilight Of The Idols and it includes Black Flag* then it's useless. How the fuck is Black Flag a "Major Metal Band"?


I'll try and address this album by album.

Scream Bloody Gore - we wouldn't have death metal without it, but do you really think it has the best Death songs considering what followed after that pretty much until Chuck's death? SBG is raw and brutal, but Leprosy is just vicious in comparison and far more effective imho. Only Pull the Plug makes the cut considering how amazed a lot of RYM userbase is with their later tech/death output. tbqh I am more surprised that not a single Sound of Perseverance track made it.

To Mega Therion - now has two songs in the top 5 after the update, which is pretty good. However, Morbid Tales has none now. I love that album to bits and don't know why RYM loves Monotheist so much more. Just documenting the ratings.

Into The Pandemonium - might have invented avant metal a decade too early, but do you honestly believe any of Frost's best tracks are present here? It's kind of an interesting experiment that the band themselves didn't give satisfactory development on their later albums, CF or Triptykon. Just some whimsical ideas that didn't go places.

Leave Scars / Time Does Not Heal - you refer to these two albums, but what songs are you thinking of exactly? The title track from TDNH should be there imho, but Darkness Descends hoards all the attention the band got, and it's kinda easy to see why. Not enough fans showing love to their other material.

Down Among The Deadmen / Twilight Of The Idols - not familiar with this material at all. The average ratings aren't high to compete with Traveller's and Traveller is the one album everyone seems to be listening to.

WRT Black Flag - My War is their highest-rated album on the website and is known as the album that invented Sludge Metal, an incredibly fashionable metal subgenre. The album's wikipedia page lists Sludge Metal as the premiere genre tag for the release and has extensive sections written out regarding the album's musical style, legacy and critical reception. tl;dr is that it was hugely beneficial for the existence of Melvins, a consistent Sludge Metal outfit, and inspired the likes of Nirvana, having been an extremely divisive album at the time of its release. As a fan you should be aware of these details.

Now, does this make Black Flag a metal band? It's only three songs after all. Think of it this way, is the band responsible for inventing a major metal genre less worthy of inclusion than dozens of bands playing in the style Black Flag invented? Obviously, they deserve some credit by being part of such an exhaustive list.

Would you take issue with Ulver being present, too? I never questioned that for a sec (Black Flag is not YET on my list but has no reason not to be after I did research on it), but I think if Bergtatt were their ONLY metal album I'd still have them there because it's such an important release. It's only sensible that Black Flag are in for the same reasons.

MetlaNZ wrote:
Using Celtic Frost as an example, when I looked before there were 4 songs from Monotheist and only Into The Crypts of Rays to represent their classic early run, this highlights a glaring flaw in all this. The 5 songs are not selected using critical thinking but popularity at that time, which once again makes the list useless as a resource because it's so lopsided and could give people the wrong impression of some of the bands.


On their 2007 tour, Celtic Frost only played two songs from Monotheist, focusing on their classic era instead, so I can see where you're coming from. However, the goal of the list is to present the five finest tracks a band has, not ones most commonly associated with them. Imagine you embarrassed yourself in public by doing something stupid, and it's the one thing people think of whenever they see you, but it's not the pinnacle of your efforts as a person. When getting into a new band, the question I personally ask myself most often is what their best work is. It can be a whole album or even just a song or two to sample the best they have to offer.

So I do think the list has a point and can be a useful resource for people checking out new bands. Who here thinks of themselves as a metal expert? Do you boast familiarity with every band on the list or close to it? I definitely do not!

Gloves Of Metal - dunno what to say about this one. It's got 100K plays on Spotify, which is far less than the band's most-played anthems. Either it's not as iconic as you claim it is, or it was missing during most of Spotify's existence. As it's also apparently only the 56th (!) most frequently played song live, according to setlist.fm, I have a feeling the former is the case.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LycanthropeMoon, Thexhumed, VegetableHarlot and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  Print view
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group