If anyone hasn't heard of the Ship of Theseus, its a thought experiment where a ships parts are replaced slowly over time, and at which point is it no longer the same ship?

There's a lot people that think Sepultura are a tribute band without the Cavaleras, even though Andreas has been a main songwriter since joining.

Stratovarius have been without an original member since Tolkki left, but Kotipelto and Jens Johansson have kept on going and no one seems to mind, maybe because their "classic" period is from when they joined?

So what do people think? Do you have a cutoff point from when bands go from being the original to a tribute act?

Napalm Death is an obvious example to point to for a "Band of Theseus", since literally no one who was on the debut album is in the band today.

As far as a "cutoff" point is concerned... I've never really thought about it in that regard. I generally accept the band under that name as being that band, regardless of who's still remaining or not. I don't think who's remaining or not, is necessarily going to have an effect on whether I'll still like their new music or not. Sometimes bands keep the same members and still lose what made them special, while other bands can have some or all of their members replaced, and yet still produce good music, which may even still be in the same style that they're known for.

Enthroned is a completely different band now. The cutoff point is when Sabathan left and Nornagest took over the frontman duties. While I don't care for the current band at all, to their credit they don't appear to be riding on the early material. When I saw them live, they probably played only one Sabathan-era song, and a couple of the latest setlists on Setlist.fm show no old songs at all.

DGM is my go-to example. The band is named after the initials of the three founding members, none of whom are in the band anymore.

Depends on who writes the music, how late they joined, and how long it took for there to be no original members. Napalm Death wasn't even a real band yet when all the members had swapped out- whatever, all good. Riot was around for 15 years, six albums, and all of their best material before the oldest remaining member joined- my interest in seeing them live these days is pretty low! There's not an easy one-size-fits-all answer for me personally but there's also not a ton of bands that really fit and almost none that are still good after losing all their original members, to be honest, so it makes it kinda moot most of the time.

I'd extend this to also bands that still have 1 original member left, since they tend, to me, to also become entirely different bands at that point. For example, Cryptopsy now is just Flo Mounier and friends playing their own original music plus a few Cryptopsy songs. Suffocation without Frank Mullen and Mike Smith feels the same way.

Ironically, bands like Napalm Death or Opeth have survived being seen that way by the general public (despite having no original members each) because their most influential and successful releases were done with members that are still in the band but weren't originals.

I love when this happens and endorse it with every fiber of my being. The illusion that the idea of a "band" presents is an ephemeral nothing that should be cast from the brains of all metallogists and metal receiving machines. I love imagining a future where Darkthrone has neither Fenriz nor NC in the band and some gal carries on the spirit of what they stood for. As it happened with Mayhem, so with all bands. I also think that bands should stop writing new music so much and start interpreting other people's music more. Every album should be a cover album. There are enough songs already and we should admit to ourselves that things start repeating themselves anyway. The zenith has been reached with Teitanblood, after whoms'tsts album "Death" people should have given up and just said "yeah, that's it, we cannot top this". Regarding cover albums: Of course, intellectual property extends its dirty claws to the metallosphere as well, but once an ideal communist utopia is achieved, interpreting music of other composers should be as commonplace in metal as it has always been in classical music since time immemorial (1600something in fact).

Incomprehensibly stupid.

I never consider a band a tribute act. If members left and other members are brought in and accepted by the band that is good enough for me.

I like the new Attacker (original drummer only) and I am looking forward to the new Riot V, Warlord and Crimson Glory.

Heidevolk's (est. 2002) longest serving member has been part of the band since 2006, after the release of the début (2005). There have been many replacements since, and after him the most senior member has been active since 2015 - after my favourite run of albums. Yes, to me Heidevolk is an entirely different band than it was in its early years. I have lost track of their later releases and cherish to old stuff.

Finntroll (est. 1997) has no more founding members, but founding vocalist Katla still writes the lyrics. Three out of seven current members have been in the band since 1998 and recorded the début (1999). Since they are technically not founding members but to me are original members.

Immortal is something entirely different. Demonaz is only credited with lyrics in the period 1997-2015 but is now the only member of the band. The band we hear play on At the Heart of Winter has no members in common with War Against All.



Rhapsody of Fire only has its founding keyboardist and have covered early Rhapsody tracks on Legendary Years (the title itself a clear nod to the début Legendary Years). Never again, please.

Oh boy, if you are using the Ship of Theseus analogy with Rhapsody of Fire, it's more like a portion of the ship is replaced, but the replaced piece also grows into a ship, and the cycle continues in perpituity. Reminds me of seeing cells asexually reproduce in biology.

In Flames is an interesting case. No one in the band now had anything to do with their debut album and the current drummer was a toddler when it came out. However, the member changes were pretty spread out and the band had drastically changed sound within their "classic" lineup anyway, so there's still a traceable lineage.

Also pretty funny that the nationality of the band even changed. A majority of band members are American and they make all their records in LA now.

Immortal and Possessed are the only bands I can think of that haven't had any permanent members but also still have an original member left.

This makes sense because power metal fans also reproduce asexually.