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Auch
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 598
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:10 pm 
 

CannibalCorpse wrote:
Of course there is another crowdfunding and the release date is not quite set in stone. There's a bazillion things (and "accidents") that COULD be happening to Time II, causing another postponing of a "finished" product.

The saga continues.


While that's true, if it is truly 100% done, I doubt Nuclear Blast will delay their release of it based on however the crowdfunding / "pre-order" goes. I'm sure at this point, they're sick of waiting and want the Time saga to be done and over with so if they have the master recordings and are working with the designers alongside Jari, they're going to push to get it out ASAP.

This line was funny to me in Jari's update: 'We'll be dropping more information along the way about the album and how all this happened." It's so funny he's aware that it's such a fucking miracle that he finished this thing that he has to release a tell-all of how he actually finished it as though he's the first person to have ever finished recording an album.

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Ivan Drago
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:10 pm
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:30 pm 
 

Lord_Lexy wrote:
Quote:
TIME II RELEASE AND WINTERSUN CROWDFUNDING II (FOLLOW-UP UPDATE)
So last Friday, we dropped the biggest news and gave a Wintersun album update of a lifetime! And yes indeed, TIME II is finally done. 100% DONE! And it sounds massive!

Were you guys surprised?

Thank you to everyone for supporting and helping us to get it finally finished! We'll be dropping more information along the way about the album and how all this happened.

Now... We need just a little bit more patience from you guys while we prepare everything for the release. The album booklet (Gyula Havancsák is working on it), promo photos (we have a photoshoot soon with Onni Wiljami Kinnunen), merchandise, physical release (CD, vinyl) with Nuclear Blast, etc.

If everything goes according to plan, the album release will happen in the late summer of 2024, the latest early fall.

Before that, we will launch the second crowdfunding campaign, planned to start on March 1st, which will be a pre-order for a very big PACKAGE that will include TIME II. More information about this later, but let's just say that there are a lot more surprises we have in store for you!

Wow, I mean I nearly admire him for having the balls to come back looking for more money for an album he says is finished, well apart from a booklet which apparently will take another 7 or 8 months to be ready...

I am really curious to see how this crowdfund goes compared to the last one though

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5185
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:36 pm 
 

Quote:
And yes indeed, TIME II is finally done. 100% DONE! And it sounds massive!


Jesus...

The nerves on this guy...

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 2362
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:14 pm 
 

Lord_Lexy wrote:
Quote:
If everything goes according to plan, the album release will happen in the late summer of 2024, the latest early fall.

Before that, we will launch the second crowdfunding campaign, planned to start on March 1st, which will be a pre-order for a very big PACKAGE that will include TIME II. More information about this later, but let's just say that there are a lot more surprises we have in store for you!

I already got my popcorn ready for the crowdfund AND the time period where the album supposedly drops. I can tell that this year is going to be an interesting one for Jari and the band…
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Raven_Augustus
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:24 pm 
 

"WINTERSUN CROWDFUNDING II"

:lol:

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Ghost of Christmas Last
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:37 pm
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:39 pm 
 

Something tells me that they have done their focus group research and concluded that at this point calling it "crowdfunding" will genuinely outperform a plain and honest "pre-sale". And if I worked for the label I wouldn't have passed up on the entertainment either, just to see how many more simps you can dupe.

On another note, if it does indeed drop, I predict it will be in 2024's top 15 or so.

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Auch
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:09 pm 
 

I don't want to give Jari too much crap for the release date being later in 2024. Mentioning a far out release date is not unheard of for bands. It does take time to finalize artwork and marketing plans (including schedule tours / shows), ramp up production so you have enough copies on hand (and we all know production slowdowns have been rampant for years now), plan a release date around other albums that Nuclear Blast and other labels are releasing, and then make sure you have enough time to get the albums to distributors and stores / webshops so that they're ready to go out on (or around, depending on if they're mailing them out) the release date.

Jari has done and will do a lot of stupid, shady, grifty shit but in general, giving an update that an album is done and a rough timeline of initial plans for a release date that feels like a while in the future isn't shady in and of itself. It's just when it's combined with everything else that it makes this whole thing feel even more ridiculous.

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Lord_Lexy
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:06 pm
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Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:22 pm 
 

I have further delved into the archives of the internet and dug up some interesting chapters for your consideration. Enjoy reading!

More posts to follow, but there is a lot of them...

17 April 2007: Time delayed, bass, guitars, drums recorded - via Blabbermouth

Spoiler: show
Quote:
WINTERSUN guitarist/vocalist Jari Mäenpää (ex-ENSIFERUM) has issued the following update:

"The mix has been cancelled and the release of [the second WINTERSUN album] 'Time' is delayed even more. I'm sorry to disappoint everyone...again, but the album is not gonna be released this year. And unfortunately Nino has the Sonic Pump Studios booked full for this year, so we might have to think of something else.

"Reason for this delay is that, I've set the bar really high on this album, but my equipment isn't even close what I need to work faster. I have to push the gear what I have to the limits to get the best out of them and I have to do a LOT of workarounds which is very time-consuming. Then all the thousand technical problems added into the mix isn't helping. Basically every piece of gear has been broken at one time or another during the making of this album, feels like there's a curse. Takes ages to solve the problems and send the stuff back and forth making the warranty changes. All this has made me very frustrated and uninspired. Hasn't helped with my stress about the deadlines either, slowing me even more. I work the best when I'm happy and lots of times I haven't been. It's been the most difficult record to make in my life. The album is very huge, I don't know if it's gonna fit even in the 74 minutes of a CD. The track count is very high, about 200 tracks per song. So it's almost like two albums in one (or three SLAYER albums :P). But I'm gonna finish this, no matter what.

"Now some update of the album progress: All the drums, bass and all guitars (rhythms, melodies, solos and acoustics) has been recorded (probably some add-ons will be recorded when the synths and vocals are done). Then I've pretty much finished with the intro, that I've decided to include on the album. Really atmospheric and huge with some magical Japanese influences. I've also started to compose and arrange the synths. I'm trying to avoid the basic (and boring) layering chord stuff and create something really cool to boost the magic of the songs into new dimensions. I haven't been able to start singing yet, because my preamp and mike 'died,' but hopefully soon I can. There's been a demand to know what is going on, so there we have it. Unfortunately, the news ain't always good.

"I wish you all a great summer! (But sadly, it's gonna be a WINTERSUN-less summer)."


5 June 2008: Time delayed again - via Blabbermouth

Spoiler: show
Quote:
WINTERSUN, the Finnish band led by former ENSIFERUM singer Jari Menp, has issued the following update:

"It's been over a year since our last update. We are very sorry for that, but there's also a good reason. We have been struggling with the new album [tentatively titled 'Time'] more than enough and the main reason in the last year has been with lots of computer problems. We had to do this album in a way that Jari finishes the album at his home studio, when the drums, bass and rhythm guitars were done at Sonic Pump Studios. We didn't predict how much problems this would bring us more. This is the first time when we work like this and were very too 'green' understanding what it takes from the computer to handle hundreds of audio and midi tracks. For fast and efficient composing of the orchestrations you need lots of horsepower from the computer. It's a must have to get as many VST instruments running realtime as possible. And for this you need lots of RAM, but there's a 4GB limit in 32bit apps, so this has been really painful for Jari. So we are hoping that the change to 64bit era will happen soon, which will put an end to this RAM limit misery. And also with more powerful processors give us the freedom to write and record albums much faster for you!

"Thank god we got Nuclear Blast to help us! We have now a new powerful computer and things seem to work much better now. Also we have to thank a lot our manager Stefan Hattinger from Rock The Nation for being so patient with us and helping all the time! Also we want to thank you fans for being so patient and understanding!

"Last year hasn't really been easy for us, but now there's some light in the end of the tunnel. We will get back to you all as soon as we know more about how things are evolving. We really don't want to disappoint everybody again by promising a release date, because we've seen how it has gone before. But we promise to do our best and get this album done as soon as the conditions let us. We will play at Metalcamp [in Slovenia] in July anyway, but that's the only show we do this summer. We will concentrate finishing the album and then go back on the road."


29 May 2012: Time split into two parts; Time I relased 2012, Time II releases 2013 - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
Finland's WINTERSUN have released the following update regarding their long-awaited second album:

Hello friends!

Time for some album(s) news. Wintersun's Time is going to be two albums, titled TIME I & TIME II.
We made this decision simply because of few reasons:

  • All the 80min of material won't fit on a regular CD and we didn't want to cut anything out.
  • We want you to be able to hear new material sooner and not wait any longer and we want to go on tour sooner.
  • The music is very full and complex, so listening this kind of "hard listening (not easy listening)" material straight for 80 minutes is a bit too much (even for me). Both albums will be approx. nice 40 min epic packages of fireworks.
  • We like the idea of releasing two albums within one year, so the band will stay more visible longer, which is important in these "modern times." No more years of silence for us!

We hope you'lll approve our new little "plan" and support us when the "Time" comes!

The track listing for TIME I looks like this:

TIME I

1. When Time Fades Away

2. Sons of Winter and Stars

I Rain of Stars

II Surrounded by Darkness

III Journey Inside a Dream

IV Sons of Winter and Stars

3. Land of Snow and Sorrow

4. Darkness and Frost

5. Time

TIME I mix is set to be finished by July, mastered in the beginning of July and released in early fall of 2012! TIME II will be released in 2013. Conception of album artworks, videos, live shows incl. rehearsals will keep us busy during the summer and I'll also continue mixing TIME II meanwhile. We'll be hopefully posting some videos and teasers during summer. Also some new live show announcements soon, so stay tuned for those!

We can't wait for you guys to hear TIME I material and play it to you live! Have a great summer!

- Jari & Wintersun boys

WINTERSUN are confirmed to headline this year's edition of the so-called HEIDENFEST tour kicking off in October supported by Korpiklaani, Varg, Trollfest and Krampus, before they go on touring the world. Further infos, dates and tickets on http://www.heidenfest.eu


8 February 2013: Time II mixing starts, release delayed to 2014 - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
Hi everyone!

After some Festival- and Summer show announcements we thought we might also give you a heads up regarding TIME II.

2012 was a really great year for us, the release of TIME I was a huge success and we did two successful tours and many sold out shows. But we are aiming even higher and take Wintersun to the next level in 2013! We have 3 official webstores up and running (Europe, Finland, North America) and we hope you guys like the available items. There´ll be constant updates and new products and we will also have interesting competitions and specials coming up on our pages, so be sure to check it all out.

We are starting the mix of TIME II and it will be released early 2014. The album will continue where TIME I left, but it will be an upgrade in production, it will be equally epic, if not more. It will contain some "fast stuff" and some guitar shredding (incl. 7 solos) like some of you metal heads and guitar wankers have been wishing for. It will also contain some of the most beautiful music ever written, that will bring a tear to your eye.

We are playing some huge summer festivals in Finland and in EU (Incl. Tuska, Nummirock, Metalfest, Beastival, Hellfest...) and for the first time going to Spain. We are also taking part in EMMA GAALA ("Finnish Grammy") in March for the nomination of "Best Metal Album of the Year". We know it´s going to be an exciting year. It is because all of you who have supported us during the years, we have been able to grow and continue to do what we love.

Thank you for all the support!

Stay tuned for some further exciting live news soon! We hope to see all of you on the road and during the festival season 2013!

- Wintersun boys


25 June 2014: I need a studio - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
Here´s the reality. TIME I & II and even couple of the next albums would have been out already, if I would have a studio. BUT I don´t have a studio. Studio is like an instrument of making music and I don´t have that instrument, so it´s pretty fucking hard to make albums, especially as complicated as the TIME albums are. TIME II is in good place mixwise, it´s sounding pretty damn spectacular, but there are still some difficult obstacles I´m battling with. Tuska Festival weekend is coming and I´m gonna get wasted! I´ve been working nonstop since January (and not just the TIME II, new material and there´s some other new things boiling under as well). So don´t come ask me at Tuska "when´s TIME II coming out?" hahah! Unless you buy me a beer!


31 July 2014: Reality Update About Crowd Funding, TIME II And Future Albums - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
Reality Update About Crowd Funding, TIME II And Future Albums

I´m very happy to see that we have so much dedicated fans that would be willing to pledge and be a part of funding a studio for Wintersun, so I could make the next Wintersun album without it taking another 10 years again.

I´ve been thinking about this Kickstarter/Pledge crowd funding thing for a while and I´m very confident now that there is enough of you guys that would help us raise the money for the Wintersun studio! This would give me the freedom to make music efficiently and nonstop. It would eliminate lot of the problems I´ve struggled with all my life and still continue to struggle everyday. For example right now I need a studio to reamp guitars for TIME II. And not just any studio, my own studio where I can craft my sounds exactly like I want them. 3rd party studios have never worked for me and I´ve never gotten satisfactory results for the insane prices they charge.

I live in a small shitty apartment building and I have neighbors. It is very very hard to work like this. I can´t record vocals, I can´t practise my singing, I can´t record guitars, I can´t record guitars even with modelling amps, because the electricity is so bad in this shitty building so I get lots of interference, I even play and practise the electric guitar acoustically without an amp 99% of the time in my home, I can´t record drums or basically any acoustic instruments, I don´t have the room or cool space for a big computer farm which is a must for the orchestrations for the next album (the place is too small and hot even for the one computer I have), I can´t mix properly, ´cause the room is so bad and there´s always ambient noise in and outside the building. That´s why I usually turn my sleeping rhythm around and mix at nights, but that causes problems in my everyday life. I can´t do pretty much anything properly in this situation. Building a professional studio for Wintersun would erase all this and give us the freedom to make music nonstop. It would upgrade our album sound significantly and most importantly speed up the album making process significantly. This would even raise our live game. With proper preproduction, able to tweak our live sounds and setup properly we would sound pretty incredible live. We would also be able to rehearse more and that would allow us to be able to play live more often and come to places where we normally have not been able to come. The studio would allow us to have more time for everything.

But the problem is this. I have a record deal with Nuclear Blast. If I would do a Kickstarter with a downloadable album for example, they would come with lawyers and take % share (more than half) away from the money that is your money meant for the Wintersun studio and the album production. Would you even want to pledge if Wintersun didn´t get 100% of the money you´ve pledged for the album production? Then our management would take their % share away. Then there´s taxes of course. The Finnish government would take something like 40% away. This would leave me nothing. I would be totally screwed. I´ve been trying to have a discussion with Nuclear Blast about crowd funding, but they are totally freaking out. They see the crowd funding as a threat to their business and they would rather see Wintersun dead, than me doing a crowd funding. I think this would not hurt them at all, only benefit them, but they cannot see the big picture of Wintersun doing well. They actually told me point blank that I should just stop making music and they will never release Wintersun from the contract. It´s really like this, because they can´t or won´t loan me enough money to build a studio and fund an album, they don´t want other people (the fans) to fund it either… unless they get a crazy big cut of the funding (for doing absolutely nothing).

This is the way a record deal works: The label gives an advance to make an album. This is a loan and they will recoup every penny back from the record sales. The reason why TIME I&II has taken so long to make (and still is taking long to finish TIME II), is because I haven´t gotten enough advances (money) to make these complex albums. Not even close. So I´ve been struggling all these years and sacrificed everything to make these albums. I have never really made any money from Wintersun. All my money has gone to album production, but you can guess who have made tons of money from Wintersun. The point is that I need my own studio to make the future albums, but Nuclear Blast won´t be able to loan enough money to make that happen and then they won´t allow me to do a crow funding campaign either that would make it happen. And even if Nuclear Blast would be able to loan me the money for the studio, our management would take their share of that money and I would get only part of the money, but I would still have to pay back 100% to Nuclear Blast from the record sales. So I would actually lose big chunk of the album production money straight away, which makes no sense at all. And then there´s the taxes. So there´s no point of taking these “loans” either.

This all is stressing me out very badly and it´s slowing my workflow. I´ve got enough technical problems to deal with making these albums. I just want the freedom to make music, but I guess it is what it is. Honestly, I feel like I´ve signed a deal with the devil and I´m just a slave in the system.

I´ve got probably 5 long albums worth of new insanely good material! And there´s no filler material at all! The music is much more refined, much more advanced in arrangement/composition/productionwise. It´s diverse and beautiful, heavy, chaotic and exploring different styles&themes and some new dimensions I feel no band has explored before… The stuff is simply on another level, in a different universe than the debut album and the TIME albums combined. I wrote the TIME albums around 2006 and before, that was a lifetime ago. Think of the stuff I´ve written ever since to this day! And I just keep on writing, I feel like I´m on fire. The music is just flowing out of me. I´m so excited about all this new music and I can´t wait to start recording and sharing it with you… BUT I can´t without a studio, that´s the problem…

Jari

p.s. Should have stayed working in the post office!


7 August 2014: CLEARING FEW THINGS ABOUT MY LAST “REALITY UPDATE” - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
CLEARING FEW THINGS ABOUT MY LAST “REALITY UPDATE”

I feel like I need to explain the situation more clearly as some people seem to be a bit confused. So let´s get more into the details…

Let´s get one thing clear first, I don´t live in a fantasy world. You might say I´m a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to album production. Fine, I´ll give you that. But I do make compromises, lots of them. TIME I was all a huge compromise. The melody guitars are all old modelling amps (not the new Axe-FXs and whatnots which sound pretty decent actually). There simply was not enough budget to record them properly in a professional studio, so they sound pretty horrible and are very hard mix and fit in with the rest of the instruments. The vocals were all recorded in various rehearsal places just with my laptop (the reason why it took so long to record them and also because of the hundreds of vocal tracks I needed to record for these albums). They are certainly not the best quality vocal recordings. Again, another compromise for not having enough budget for a 3rd party professional studio. I also wanted some time to practise my vocals while recording, which I´ve never really done before, but you can hear the improvement. Also I do some of the vocal arrangement work and experiment with different things while recording, this would be impossible in a 3rd party studio. The rhythm guitars were actually recorded in a 3rd party studio, but I didn´t have enough time to craft the sound exactly like I want it. Rhythm guitar is the thing I´m the most perfectionist and passionate about. There´s only a handful of rhythm guitar sounds I like from the millions of heavy metal records out there, so you can imagine how hard it is for me to be able to produce the guitar sound of my dreams in few days in a 3rd party studio. Impossible. And to fit it in with hundreds of orchestration & synth instruments, to not muddy the bass, to be able to scoop the mids so the whole mix doesn't sound like a kitchen radio (I don´t like mids in metal guitars plus the orchestra instruments already eat a lot of the mids space), but still keep the upper mids smooth and not harsh, to not mask the drum overheads, but still having enough modern highs and upper mids attack to have it cut through the mix. This is almost a mission impossible, but I know I could do it in my own time in my own studio... So the time ran out from the studio´s “taximeter” and I was left with unsatisfying guitar sound and very hard to fit in the mix (still had to pay the studio bill though). I was very unhappy about this, but still released the album! The orchestrations were made with just one computer which forced me to use time consuming workarounds and was very stressful. I won´t even get into the technical problems I´ve had to deal with over the years. It took 3 years of sweat and tears to make the orchestrations the way I had to do them. This was the hardest task and it nearly burned me out. Never again this way! I would need a computer farm to do the all the orchestrations in realtime without slow workarounds.

I´ve mixed the albums in my apartment and you ask why it takes so long to mix? Well, because my room is not a professional studio ment for mixing. There´s also always some noise issues inside and outside the building, I´ve had even some scary hearing problems due to this for having to raise the volume and having to mix too loud. Never again! There´s also insane amount of tracks to mix (which is very difficult), but my computer is having hard a time handling them well. Very unstable and slow. But the main thing why the mixing takes so long is because the recorded sounds are pretty crappy due to lack of resources to record them properly. So it´s very hard to "polish a turd", if not impossible. Good sounds would mix themselves! And I won´t even get into other health problems I´ve had due to stress which has slowed the mixing process too (not mental problems, although maybe I´m a bit crazy). So again, I simply can´t afford a 3rd party studios to mix in or to record. Not even close. Nuclear Blast gave us just enough budget for only to record the drums, bass and rhythm guitars in 3rd party studio, that´s it. Which all turn out unsatisfying due to lack of time to tweak the sounds right for massive projects like the TIME albums are. That´s why I´ve been struggling with the mixing. All the rest of the instuments, vocals, orchestrations, melody guitars etc... was left up to me to record on my own however possible and getting quality recordings in a "DIY bedroom studio scenario" is not easy. Sure they gave us few additional advances, ´cause we begged them for faster computers and better gear (and all that money has been paid back already), but still not nearly enough for a task like this. The rest have been basically financed by yours truly with touring, merchandise and just simply sacrificing my own time doing lot of workarounds and recording in rehearsal places or where ever I could due to the lack of funding, but I had to make these albums a reality no matter what! But my point is, as you can see, I do make lots of compromises. TIME I is far from perfect, but still released the album! Would a perfectionist do that?

I certainly can make music renting a 3rd party studio for one month and release an album, as I have already proven that many times in the past. But I won´t do that again, that is my decision. I´ve never been happy with those albums and the results I get from 3rd party studios. Waste of money. There simply isn´t enough time (with our budgets) to craft the sounds the way I want them in unfamiliar space with unfamiliar gear, monitors and under the stress of the “studio taximeter" running. It´s usually just, let´s throw a mic there and wish for the best! “We´ll fix it in the mix... maybe!”. Making music makes me happy. The feeling you get when you first get a new idea, a riff, a melody, a vision of the song is a great feeling and you just want to make that vision come out from the speakers exactly like you hear it in your head. Releasing music that doesn't represent that vision and is compromised makes me unhappy. Why continue to do something that makes you unhappy? Those past albums were like demos to me and nothing like the TIME albums or the future material are in their complexity. I just want to get the production right for these albums! I know some people don't care about the production quality that much, but I do. I wouldn´t be able to ever do these albums in 30, 60 or 90 days in a 3rd party studio “like all the other bands do it”. Sorry, but I´m just not that skilled of a human being! I would need to rent a 3rd party studio for a year or two or even three years depending on the project and live there 24/7. But obviously who can afford that? You could invest and build your own studio with that money and make many albums until you die. The main thing that people need to understand is that the TIME albums and my future material are so much more complex to make than my previous albums were and I just can´t continue to do them like I´ve been forced to do them for the past 10 years. I think we´ve all established by now that this isn´t working. You have to also remember, I do these albums basically alone. Produce, record, engineer, sing, play, mix, master, write all the music & lyrics... Who else does that? Anyone in Finland? Anyone in the world? Well maybe Devin Townsend, but he´s fucking Devin Townsend! I´m just nobody from Konala, Helsinki.

During these years I´ve been already acquiring studio gear and started doing most of the stuff myself and I love it! I´ve gotta pretty good DAW and monitor setup, so basically I got most of the studio gear already. But there´s still one major thing that is missing and that is the studio space. A place to work without interruptions, where I can crank up guitar amps 24/7, 365 days a year without the neighbors calling the cops, to record and practise my singing everyday, to record drums and so on… Having everything always set up ready to record and to mix night or day in a good mixing room would speed up the whole process immensely. It would be also great for the whole band, ´cause we´d have our own rehearsal room for the first time, sort of “Wintersun headquarters”. This would really free us to make albums much faster with better quality and able us to tour more often, which then would open the possibilities financially to other things like upgrading our live shows, doing ten minute music videos for our long songs, a live DVD maybe even with a real orchestra...

It is a fact that without Nuclear Blast I couldn´t have gotten where I am today and I'm certainly grateful of that, but they have really made the most money of Wintersun. What have I made? Well I´ve gotten some better equipments to do my job which is nice, but I´m still struggling and I´m missing the main pieze of the puzzle, the actual "work place”, which is a huge roadblock to continue forwards. I´m in a dead end. All my money has always gone straight to the album productions. I don´t go on vacations, I don´t have a car or anything fancy, which I´m totally fine with! I work and do these albums basically for free and that would be actually fine with me, if I could do my work at least in good conditions. I´ve been struggling and I´ve sacrificed everything for over 10 years and gotten pretty much nothing out of it, except the love and support of the fans, which I appreciate very much!

But to continue to make more albums, I need my own studio. I´ve had enough making albums in rehearsal places and in a bedroom studios, it just doesn´t work. Enough is enough. I´ve reached the breaking point. I don´t owe Nuclear Blast or anyone anything. I don´t have to make or release albums. I don´t have to release TIME II, if I´m not happy with it. I can make music (demos) just for myself for fun and just show them to my closest friends. Or I can do something else, for example teaching like Kai and Teemu... doing anything else I would actually earn some money. I will continue to always make music like I did before any record deals, but whether I will release the music depends totally whether I can record and mix it properly. I´ve made piece with myself that if I won´t be able to ever release another album again and I have to take my songs to the grave, that is ok with me, but I do not wish it. Nuclear Blast and everyone around me has made profits of Wintersun and all my debts are paid. So no harm done. Where to go from here? The future is unknow.
I must point out that our manager is a really good guy. Always has our best interest at heart, he actually gave me a big personal loan to finish TIME I. I couldn´t have done it without him! He actually renegotiated a better Nuclear Blast deal for me after the TIME I release. I´m actually ok with the new deal. Except for the fact that I can´t make albums, because they won´t fund them enough for me to actually be able to make them and at the same time they are denying me doing a Wintersun crowd funding which probably would finance the studio. So they are really holding us hostage. Our manager actually renounced himself from the crowd funding and won´t have any part in it unless I want his help. He wants to see Wintersun succeed. The problem is still the same though, without enough funding there won´t be Wintersun albums. And I´m pretty sure I would not be able to gather enough finances on my own with just “Jari Mäenpää´s studio crowd funding” without any meaningful perk like TIME II high quality album download for example. It would have to be a big Wintersun campaign with a team of people helping me to realise this dream. But I will try to figure something out, I´m not giving up!

TIME II is now in a good place mixwise. I´m pretty happy with the drums, bass & the orchestrations. The whole thing is sounding so much more powerful and clear than TIME I. Really proud of what I´ve been able to achieve with these “not so perfect" recordings and with the intense orchestra layers. It´s so difficult to mix stuff like this, especially with my mixing conditions. But I won´t ruin the hard work I´ve done so far by throwing a crappy guitar sound on top ruining the whole mix. That´s one compromise I won´t make anymore. And I won´t be spending anymore money for 3rd party studios either. I will save and invest every penny for my own studio. Actually for those who complained not hearing the guitars enough on TIME I, the guitars were left purposely little bit back in the mix, because they were so crappy. Or those who critized the production otherwise, now you know the reason why it wasn´t top notch quality. No money = demo quality. And for those who doubted me having written already 5 albums worth of new material, I´ve written actually more. That was just a conservative estimate.

Bottom line, if people want me to make music and release Wintersun albums, I need enough funding for my personal studio where I can craft my music, record and produce my sounds in piece. It is as simple as that. I can´t make this complex music any other way anymore. I am just one man with limited resources and limited skills. I can´t magically pull albums from thin air. Maybe other bands can do their albums “the usual way” renting a 3rd party studio for one month and are happy with the results, I certainly respect that! I´ve been there, done that. I know that many metal bands have all got their own hardships and I am not certainly underrating anyone´s situation. But every situation is unique and mine certainly is. I´ve seen some comments saying that “You don´t deserve your own studio, because other bands don´t get to have their own studio either and you should just do your music like everyone else does it!”. Would it be somehow bad for the other bands if I would build my own studio? Would it somehow hurt the other bands, if I could make more Wintersun albums in my own way? Or are these comments just based on jealousy or something? “What makes you so special to get your own studio?” Nothing and maybe I don´t deserve it, but that is for the fans & financiers to decide and I know there´s lots of dedicated fans that want to support us! It really isn´t about who deserves what. I´m just saying what I can and can´t do. I have my own way of doing things. Sorry, if my previous update sounded like whining or somehow entitled for some of you, it wasn’t ment to be. I am just trying to illustrate the difficult situation I´m in. I definitely understand the realities of life. The crowd funding was actually suggested and brought to my attention by the fans. In fact people have been wanting donate to us since the debut album, but we don't feel very good about it. We always would like to give something back. That's why we make merchandise for example. I admit that I´m a little bit frustrated with the situation, but I´m fine with whatever outcome. But if someone finds it offensive that I´m looking for funding for my studio project and for the Wintersun albums, then they got some personal problems. Most of the comments have been really encouraging, supportive and positive though and I appreciate that!

Currently I´m negotiating with Nuclear Blast and our manager how we could make this work for all parties… We´ll see if we can work this out.

I certainly hope that we´ll find a solution, so we can release more Wintersun albums and share them with the world. It is my dream and passion to make music and it makes me happy to see that so many people care about Wintersun. I´m very grateful!!! All your supportive posts have given me lot of hope and I´m certainly not quitting the fight!

Thank you and thanks for listening!

Jari
p.s. Everyone enjoying their popcorn?



1 October 2014: The sauna revealed! - via Facebook

Spoiler: show
Quote:
WINTERSUN STUDIO & TIME II CROWD FUNDING SURVEY (Please read first before liking!)

Good news guys! We have reached an agreement with Nuclear Blast. We gotta give them big props for coming through for us! But first, we need to do a little survey to estimate if we could actually reach our crowd funding goal (which is pretty damn high) before we rush into it. We need to estimate carefully our goal, what is possible and what is not before we can move forward with our plans. This is sort of a test run, but this will hopefully determine approximately how much support we would have. We also want to be clear that the crowd funding is not a charity, we are not asking for donations or anything for free. You would totally get your monies worth!

So we would like to know... If we did this crowd funding project, how many of you guys would be willing to pre-order a TIME II High Quality download package? Stem mixes and many other killer goodies would be included in the perk. All details will be revealed later, but this package would be huge, something never done before! Here´s a little taster what the package would include:

TIME II
- High quality full album download (wav 24bit, 44.1kHz), exactly the way the album was recorded, mixed and mastered
- Includes all tracks (Fields of Snow, The Way of the Fire, One with the Shadows, Ominous Clouds, Storm, Silver Leaves)
- Beautiful PDF extended digital booklet with all crowd funding backer names included (optional)

TIME II Stems
- Separated mix tracks for all Drums, Bass, Rhythm Guitars, Melody Guitars & Solos, Vocals, Orchestrations of all songs
- Make your own mix, adjust the levels for your own liking, listen all the main instruments separately, discover and learn all the secrets inside the mix layers

But that´s just for starters, this package would include many other items and surprises. We feel very confident about this and trust that you all would go crazy about it! And this package is just the first perk on the list. But this would be our main focus for the campaign.
The price would be very affordable and with the guarantee that 100% of the raised money would go for the funding of our studio and Wintersun´s album productions. This would be your chance of a lifetime to support us directly and get an insane TIME II package for your money at the same time (pun intended!). So win-win! All we want you to do for now is...

Please LIKE this post if you would buy and support us.

Please DO NOT click the LIKE if you would not buy.

AND PLEASE SHARE THIS POST TO EVERYONE!!! Because it's important that all our potential supporters see this post and we get some idea whether there's a chance to reach our goal.

Thanks!

- Wintersun boys

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 4:45 pm 
 

The sauna thing seems absurd until you understand that Finns are physically, literally addicted to saunas. In Finland they are a required part of the building code as an ADA-type feature, and are built into any public/commercial structure or government vehicle with a footprint larger than 10 square feet. It's why all their ambulances and military helicopters look really oversize, if you've ever noticed that. They can make them small, but they're in there.
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Apteronotus
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:27 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
The sauna thing seems absurd until you understand that Finns are physically, literally addicted to saunas.


This is medically accurate. Additionally, in the Finnish language, 100% means you still need to do things like arrange photo-shoots and booklets; their number system actually includes several numbers after 100% before something is done. The letter å, for example is actually one of these numbers, its like how binary or Sumerian base-60 counting works.

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xexyzl
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:29 pm 
 

Jari is such a predictable liar that nobody in this thread actually believed "100% done" meant we would even see artwork or a tracklist by now, let alone it dropping on Spotify or what have you.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:40 pm 
 

Lord_Lexy wrote:
5 June 2008: Time delayed again

Quote:
WINTERSUN, the Finnish band led by former ENSIFERUM singer Jari Menp, has issued the following update:

"It's been over a year since our last update. We are very sorry for that, but there's also a good reason. We have been struggling with the new album [tentatively titled 'Time'] more than enough and the main reason in the last year has been with lots of computer problems."

29 May 2012: Time split into two parts; Time I relased 2012, Time II releases 2013


It took them 4 years to fix the computers. That's a lot of compter issues for sure.

And I had forgotten that Time II was originally supposed to come out in 2013. That was 11 years ago! Hahahaha!

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:05 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Lord_Lexy wrote:
5 June 2008: Time delayed again

Quote:
WINTERSUN, the Finnish band led by former ENSIFERUM singer Jari Menp, has issued the following update:

"It's been over a year since our last update. We are very sorry for that, but there's also a good reason. We have been struggling with the new album [tentatively titled 'Time'] more than enough and the main reason in the last year has been with lots of computer problems."

29 May 2012: Time split into two parts; Time I relased 2012, Time II releases 2013


It took them 4 years to fix the computers. That's a lot of compter issues for sure.

And I had forgotten that Time II was originally supposed to come out in 2013. That was 11 years ago! Hahahaha!

We could be living in an alternative universe where the album already came out in 2013, and the band might have dropped a couple of other albums since then. That's pretty bonkers to think about...
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SirianRune
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:10 pm 
 

Lord_Lexy wrote:
Quote:
TIME II RELEASE AND WINTERSUN CROWDFUNDING II (FOLLOW-UP UPDATE)
So last Friday, we dropped the biggest news and gave a Wintersun album update of a lifetime! And yes indeed, TIME II is finally done. 100% DONE! And it sounds massive!

Were you guys surprised?

Thank you to everyone for supporting and helping us to get it finally finished! We'll be dropping more information along the way about the album and how all this happened.

Now... We need just a little bit more patience from you guys while we prepare everything for the release. The album booklet (Gyula Havancsák is working on it), promo photos (we have a photoshoot soon with Onni Wiljami Kinnunen), merchandise, physical release (CD, vinyl) with Nuclear Blast, etc.

If everything goes according to plan, the album release will happen in the late summer of 2024, the latest early fall.

Before that, we will launch the second crowdfunding campaign, planned to start on March 1st, which will be a pre-order for a very big PACKAGE that will include TIME II. More information about this later, but let's just say that there are a lot more surprises we have in store for you!


*Gets up and walks out of home in a fugue state while shaking head and throwing up arms*

Well, my original plan of listening to this on Spotify is still intact. Thankfully, even if Jari wanted to blockade Time II from being released on Spotify, there's not way in hell NB would allow him to. And The Forest Seasons was released on it too.

And it sounds like Jari is concocting some kind of documentary or something showcasing the "production process" (if you can even call it that) behind this 2nd volume of an album. If so, I look forward to the Finnish Some Kind of Monster.

A part of me believes that Jari actually is egotistical enough to genuinely believe that he has accomplished the musical equivalent of building The Great Pyramids of Giza. When the reality, of course, is that he has spent the 18 years running around like a chicken with it's fucking head cut off, and has irreparably destroyed his reputation in the process, a reputation that could've potentially been the exact opposite of what it is now at this point in time.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:53 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
We could be living in an alternative universe where the album already came out in 2013, and the band might have dropped a couple of other albums since then. That's pretty bonkers to think about...


The crazy thing is that Wintersun had enough momentum after their debut, and regardless of what I think of Jari as a person, he's a good songwriter and solid guitarist, and he obviously could have released some of the best material of that whole subgenre. If Wintersun would have stroke the iron while it was hot, they basically had everything to be the next Children of Bodom.

Beyond the fact that Jari is a conartist and a griefter, he also wasted his skills and the skills of other talented musicians for decades now.

Two decades after Wintersun's debut, the big finnish melodic death metal trend has basically died out, and most avenues of that subgenre have been explored. Not only this, but most of the stuff he releases now is underwhelming and/or mediocre, or feels dated the second it comes out.

The fact that he oversells his shit and that he makes people wait for years and years between releases and that he keeps postponing his releases, also doesn't help because a lot of people just end up thinking "And that's what it took them 10 years to make?"

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LycanthropeMoon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:09 am 
 

Yeah, if he hadn't been such an egotistical moron about things, Wintersun would probably be on top of the world right now. They'd probably be playing to Arch Enemy-sized crowds. I still think the debut is quite good... but by the... uh, time "Time I" came out most excitement I had for it had diminished considerably. My initial response to the album was "that's it?" - despite all the production tricks, you could feel how incomplete it was. I highly doubt II will be much better... but hey, I could be wrong. We'll see what happens but my expectations are low, especially after the utter slog that was "The Forest Seaons" (dismal, dismal stuff).

I'm genuinely more interested in what Kai Hahto and Jukka Koskinen will be doing on the next Nightwish album, and "Human Nature" was kinda boring aside from a few songs (I really liked "Shoemaker", "Tribal" and the oddly doomy "Endlessness").

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Zerberus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:48 am 
 

Even if Time II turns out to be the best album ever written with production quality unrivaled in the history of music, it still won't make up for Jari's shitty practices and the extreme string-along that it took to finalize.
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Ivan Drago
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:30 am 
 

Two of the four songs have already been played a load live anyway, plenty of youtube footage of them. So all this hype is for two songs

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BleedingMoon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:40 am 
 

I'm vaguely curious as to how he's going to tell people that he managed to finish the album without the 500k Euro studio he said he basically needed to get it done. I'm also absolutely convinced he's going to tell people that the studio continues to be necessary to finish more Wintersun albums.

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DarkSkiesGreyWaters
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:26 am 
 

BleedingMoon wrote:
I'm vaguely curious as to how he's going to tell people that he managed to finish the album without the 500k Euro studio he said he basically needed to get it done. I'm also absolutely convinced he's going to tell people that the studio continues to be necessary to finish more Wintersun albums.


“Through the power of magical Yuletide blood sacrifice I have finished Time II. Now, my next record, Storm in Winter Time I, will require an 800,000k studio, a pet camel, a personal theme park ride in my back yard, a bigger sauna, a new Mercedes and a swimming pool before I can properly record it. Also a new house in the Bahamas.”

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Napalm_Satan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:20 pm 
 

Aside: it's hilarious to me that he's such a supposed perfectionist about production and his recording studio, when Forest Seasons had a pretty mediocre sound and Time I sounded horrendously overproduced - gaudy, nauseating, tacky, ultra-processed... a synthtrastrophe. The only album of his that sounds good is the debut, before any of this shit even really started.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:49 pm 
 

Napalm_Satan wrote:
Aside: it's hilarious to me that he's such a supposed perfectionist about production and his recording studio, when Forest Seasons had a pretty mediocre sound and Time I sounded horrendously overproduced - gaudy, nauseating, tacky, ultra-processed... a synthtrastrophe. The only album of his that sounds good is the debut, before any of this shit even really started.


Aiming for "perfect production" is a trap you're laying for yourself, most often then not.

The closest analogy I can think of is how the original Star Wars trilogy compares to the prequels trilogy (and even, to an extent, to the Special Editions of the original trilogy). The production of the first Star Wars movie was tough. Difficulting shooting conditions, technical limitations, tight schedule, etc., But with the prequels George Lucas had so much money and means to work with, and the possibilities were almost limitless. But when you compare the original Star Wars movie (and even the whole original trilogy) it holds up better, feels more organic, more "real", while the prequels are bloated, look fake, and are a visual mess, because they were able to jumble every fucking frame with a ton of computer generated shits.

You have somewhat of a similar phenomenon going on with bands who have almost limitless means when producing albums, where they end up making stuff that's too polished, too clean, overproduced, and it just sounds fake and synthetic.

Working with limitations usually leads to something that feels more authentic, and the band can't really on cheap tricks and studio magic to make the music sound good. They have to have good songs and play them well.

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Auch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:10 pm 
 

BleedingMoon wrote:
I'm vaguely curious as to how he's going to tell people that he managed to finish the album without the 500k Euro studio he said he basically needed to get it done. I'm also absolutely convinced he's going to tell people that the studio continues to be necessary to finish more Wintersun albums.


Oh the spin is going to be so funny to watch play out!

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:24 pm 
 

Auch wrote:
I don't want to give Jari too much crap for the release date being later in 2024. Mentioning a far out release date is not unheard of for bands. It does take time to finalize artwork and marketing plans (including schedule tours / shows), ramp up production so you have enough copies on hand (and we all know production slowdowns have been rampant for years now), plan a release date around other albums that Nuclear Blast and other labels are releasing, and then make sure you have enough time to get the albums to distributors and stores / webshops so that they're ready to go out on (or around, depending on if they're mailing them out) the release date.

All of that is on Nuclear Blast. You just described the entire job of a record label. The reason why music crowdfunding exists is so artists can release music without the help of a label. The fact that he said Nuclear Blast is involved with the release but he's still asking for money is proof that this is a scam.
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Raven_Augustus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:33 pm 
 

That's a good point. He got his thousands of fans to crowdfund his sauna and still got a corporate big label to release the actual album.

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:00 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
The reason why music crowdfunding exists is so artists can release music without the help of a label.


This is true, but not 100% so. I’ve definitely seen instances where the crowdfunding is used by a band for the express purpose of recording and for album production, but the album the band created and owns is then licensed to a label for promotion, mass manufacturing, and distribution. Crowdfunding supporters may get an exclusive limited version of the product and extra perks and whatnot, but the generic mass produced version is a product of a label via a licensing deal. Prog rock band Marillion does this or something conceptually similar to this.

That’s not to say that’s the case with Wintersun, I have no idea, I haven’t been following this saga all that closely, and am not invested all that deeply as the music is not to my tastes. Skimming above to the FB posts linked by Lord_Lexy seems to indicate that Wintersun is or was not on a licensing deal, but rather a standard record deal, but I truly have no real idea.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:57 pm 
 

If the point is only to presell packages and shit, why call it "crowdfunding" at this point?

Like... what are you actually funding?

We're talking about buying a deluxe edition maybe, or some exclusive videos (making off, live shows, behind the scene stuff and whatnot). Where's the crowdfuding in this if the whole album is finished and they have a label to finalize everything for the release?

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:00 pm 
 

I thought it was ludicrous that anyone was giving him money, but it's circled around into funny that he's still asking for more even now. What a shameless goof.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:35 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I thought it was ludicrous that anyone was giving him money, but it's circled around into funny that he's still asking for more even now. What a shameless goof.


I have more fun with these threads then with the actual music of Wintersun, TBH.

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:25 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
If the point is only to presell packages and shit, why call it "crowdfunding" at this point?

Like... what are you actually funding?


The purpose of the crowdfunding and the secret stretch goal is: Time III

If sufficient herdfunds are crowded, the creation of Time III will officially begin. This will, of couse, necessitate the delay of Time II until such time as Time III is 100% ready to be in real life physically released, because the two Times will obviously need to be entirely remixed, remastered, redesigned and potentially re-recorded in order to be internationally and holistically released as a double album, the way they were always meant to be, when they were written back in 2005. Then ultra-deluxe, suitcase-sized TimeLord Editions, packaging all three Times in one "CD ark," will need to be designed, manufactured, and marketed, leading to at least three more phases of crowdfunding and associated "anticipation-building periods."

It may be Jari's ultimate intent to approach a venture capital firm once all the existing crowdfunds, insufficient as they are, have been fully embezzled.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:08 pm 
 

Hahaha! Excellent :lol:

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Raven_Augustus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:22 pm 
 

Time III... can we dare to even contemplate it? :o

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:21 pm 
 

Raven_Augustus wrote:
Time III... can we dare to even contemplate it? :o

I don't want to imagine how long that will take if Jari is going to take that long for the second part to drop! :annoyed:
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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:32 pm 
 

Next album will be Time II : 2
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LycanthropeMoon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:14 pm 
 

The title needs to look more ridiculous, like... you know, ::T1M3.III:: or something.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:53 pm 
 

Raven_Augustus wrote:
Time III... can we dare to even contemplate it? :o

Sorry, I don't have the time. I've got better things to do with my time.

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Auch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:01 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Auch wrote:
I don't want to give Jari too much crap for the release date being later in 2024. Mentioning a far out release date is not unheard of for bands. It does take time to finalize artwork and marketing plans (including schedule tours / shows), ramp up production so you have enough copies on hand (and we all know production slowdowns have been rampant for years now), plan a release date around other albums that Nuclear Blast and other labels are releasing, and then make sure you have enough time to get the albums to distributors and stores / webshops so that they're ready to go out on (or around, depending on if they're mailing them out) the release date.

All of that is on Nuclear Blast. You just described the entire job of a record label. The reason why music crowdfunding exists is so artists can release music without the help of a label. The fact that he said Nuclear Blast is involved with the release but he's still asking for money is proof that this is a scam.


Oh it’s 100% bullshit and a continuation of his scummy, scammy behavior. I just meant that making fun of him for saying something like “The album is 100% done being recorded and mastered, release date late summer / fall 2024” is common for lots of bands so let’s make fun of Wintersun for other, more worthwhile things.

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Zerberus
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2342
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:51 am 
 

Jari's endgame might be to fund getting turned into a brain in a jar so he can keep the grift going until the heat death of the universe
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Lord_Lexy
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 864
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:55 am 
 

Zerberus wrote:
Jari's endgame might be to fund getting turned into a brain in a jar so he can keep the grift going until the heat death of the universe


Fans: “How much more do you need, Jari?”

Jari: “INSUFFICIENT FUNDING FOR MEANINGFUL MUSIC”
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Hardworlder
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Posts: 259
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:17 am 
 

Lord_Lexy wrote:
Zerberus wrote:
Jari's endgame might be to fund getting turned into a brain in a jar so he can keep the grift going until the heat death of the universe


Fans: “How much more do you need, Jari?”

Jari: “INSUFFICIENT FUNDING FOR MEANINGFUL MUSIC”



Well done, excellent Asimov reference.


I've been following this thread because I have not been following all the Wintersun drama. What a fucking dummy.

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