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Ludicus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:07 am
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:38 pm 
 

Quote:
the rejection of anything christian is the lowest common denominator in my definition of black metal, be it in terms of ideology, aesthetics, what have you, so batoushka embracing orthodox-inspired aesthetics makes them not black metal, but some entirely different gimmick.


What about Antestor or Horde, are they not black metal?

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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:06 pm 
 

Ludicus wrote:
Quote:
the rejection of anything christian is the lowest common denominator in my definition of black metal, be it in terms of ideology, aesthetics, what have you, so batoushka embracing orthodox-inspired aesthetics makes them not black metal, but some entirely different gimmick.


What about Antestor or Horde, are they not black metal?


Nope. I thought that was common knowledge. They’re called Un-Black Metal or White Metal.
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:09 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:

Nope. I thought that was common knowledge. They’re called Un-Black Metal or White Metal.

Well that doesn't make sense. I thought Deicide and Satan's Host were un-black metal. Un-black implies not being black metal. Those other bands sound pretty close to black metal to me.
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:15 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:

Nope. I thought that was common knowledge. They’re called Un-Black Metal or White Metal.

Well that doesn't make sense. I thought Deicide and Satan's Host were un-black metal. Un-black implies not being black metal. Those other bands sound pretty close to black metal to me.


Hey man I didn’t coin the term. I’m just the messenger. Bands that co-opted the aesthetic of black metal with pro-christian ideologies were called Un-Black metal or white metal. It’s been that way since the 90s.

It makes sense, unless the only thing you ascribe to Black Metal is a sound, which is so varied from scene to scene I don’t think you can make that a unifying descriptor.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:22 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Wilytank wrote:
Well that doesn't make sense. I thought Deicide and Satan's Host were un-black metal. Un-black implies not being black metal. Those other bands sound pretty close to black metal to me.


Hey man I didn’t coin the term. I’m just the messenger. Bands that co-opted the aesthetic of black metal with pro-christian ideologies were called Un-Black metal or white metal. It’s been that way since the 90s.

It makes sense, unless the only thing you ascribe to Black Metal is a sound, which is so varied from scene to scene I don’t think you can make that a unifying descriptor.

It was retarded terminology in the 90's, it's retarded now. Unless the "un-" prefix means something else in some non-English language? Just trying to make sure we're being consistent with the language we're all using.
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Space_alligator
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:43 am
Posts: 191
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:02 pm 
 

Horde is just black metal, because thats what the music is.

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Ludicus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:07 am
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:07 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
unless the only thing you ascribe to Black Metal is a sound


???

Is that not why we separate ALL music into genres? Because the sound is different from each other?

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Somar
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:01 pm
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:12 pm 
 

Never understood this mentality that goes against bands puting a focus on aesthetics for live shows.

I, for one, value bands that put that extra effort in giving paying fans a good live show.

If i want to just listen to the music i can do that home.

If i go to a live show i expect something more, a live gig is as much a visual thing as it is audio, and if a band can bring both things to a show, then even better.

Be in the form of light effects, that almost every band uses, or a more elaborate, almost theatrical show on stage, i always give bonus points to bands that try to provide the best show possible to the people that paid good money, and many times traveled long distances, just to watch them.

Going out there and just play is the easiest of things, putting that extra effort in, shows the band's commitment to their music and to their fans.
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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:56 pm 
 

k311250 wrote:
I didn't say "entry level" because I didn't want to offend anyone but if that's what it takes for you to understand what I meant then I'll reprase that too: if I wanted to listen to some overproduced entry level extreme metal I'd go with Behemoth. Do I also have to explain the radio is a bit different in every country? There's plently of countries where you can actually listen to metal on the radio.


Outside of the extreme metal bubble, none of this is true. I would classify neither Batushka or Behemoth as "entry level". Entry level implies easily digestible music, something straight forward... Those 2000s Roadrunner bands like Slipknot, Trivium, etc are entry level.

And I do not believe there are plenty of countries where you can listen to this kind of metal on the radio. Sure, there are stations all over the world that have a late night metal show (like college radio stations in the US) but no real radio station is playing Batushka. "Radio friendly" is being played on the radio for the masses, like Avenged Sevenfold. Batushka getting played on the 10pm extreme metal show on a college station in Boise is not "radio friendly".

It's easy for elitist metalheads to say something is "entry level" because none of us are entry level... We know the scene and what's truly extreme and what's for the crowd that shops at Hot Topic. However, thinking Batushka is entry level or mainstream is just something elitists say when they don't like a band.

More on topic... I am seeing Batushka on their US tour and very interested to see how the music translates live. I've seen videos from their shows that sound great (like the Hellfest performance) and some that don't sound so great (club shows). Anyone seen them since they started the US tour?

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Auch
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Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:10 pm 
 

I saw them last night at Knitting Factory in Brooklyn and for the most part, they sounded just as good live as the album. Played it almost exactly as the album too, minus a few flourishes and additions to intros/outros to help tie things together better and maybe some small instance where main vocals were a little bit quiet? But those were few and far between.

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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:21 pm 
 

Ludicus wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
unless the only thing you ascribe to Black Metal is a sound


???

Is that not why we separate ALL music into genres? Because the sound is different from each other?


Well, in this instance it’s a sub genre of a genre. So we’re talking minutiae and other descriptors to differentiate each sub genre. If you are telling me there’s no aesthetic difference in sound between say Varathron and say... Bone Awl, then I’m not sure what to tell you.
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cultofkraken
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:25 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
It was retarded terminology in the 90's, it's retarded now. Unless the "un-" prefix means something else in some non-English language? Just trying to make sure we're being consistent with the language we're all using.


I prefer white metal myself honestly, and you’re probably right I bet that term “unblack Metal” probably was coined by non-English speakers and just kinda stuck. However you’re wrong about “un” as a prefix, and I quote “Un is a prefix meaning not. It's used to give opposite and negative meanings to adjectives, adverbs and nouns.” So “not” Black Metal is certainly what I believe is the sentiment with that term.
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narsilianshard
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:06 am 
 

Genres aren't defined by ideology or lyrical content. If it sounds like black metal, it's black metal, regardless of what the lyrics happen to be.

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soverysorry
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:25 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:36 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Outside of the extreme metal bubble, none of this is true. I would classify neither Batushka or Behemoth as "entry level". Entry level implies easily digestible music, something straight forward... Those 2000s Roadrunner bands like Slipknot, Trivium, etc are entry level.

And I do not believe there are plenty of countries where you can listen to this kind of metal on the radio. Sure, there are stations all over the world that have a late night metal show (like college radio stations in the US) but no real radio station is playing Batushka. "Radio friendly" is being played on the radio for the masses, like Avenged Sevenfold. Batushka getting played on the 10pm extreme metal show on a college station in Boise is not "radio friendly".

It's easy for elitist metalheads to say something is "entry level" because none of us are entry level... We know the scene and what's truly extreme and what's for the crowd that shops at Hot Topic. However, thinking Batushka is entry level or mainstream is just something elitists say when they don't like a band.


It's pathetic. I know this is the internet and Metal Archives is a hotspot for some insane metal elitism but saying that Behemoth, Batushka, Melechesh and certain Nile albums (and whatever else) are "entry level, easy listening radio metal" just takes the fucking cake :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not even gonna bother engaging with the previous poster. It's a dead argument. Said poster is trve and kvltvs maximvs. There's no point in debating what is "entry level", what defines it, does an emphasis on melodic mean it's radio friendly, the validity of having been on a random radio equating to being produced for the masses, etc. All such retarded points to make that it's not even worth poking.

Metalheads and their notions never cease to amaze me.

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:48 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Genres aren't defined by ideology or lyrical content. If it sounds like black metal, it's black metal, regardless of what the lyrics happen to be.


This is a subgenre, not a genre, and I disagree with you but hey it’s a free world.
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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:30 am 
 

Auch wrote:
I saw them last night at Knitting Factory in Brooklyn and for the most part, they sounded just as good live as the album. Played it almost exactly as the album too, minus a few flourishes and additions to intros/outros to help tie things together better and maybe some small instance where main vocals were a little bit quiet? But those were few and far between.


That's great to hear! I am excited to see them so I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed it. If it sounds like the album, I'm happy...

soverysorry wrote:
It's pathetic. I know this is the internet and Metal Archives is a hotspot for some insane metal elitism but saying that Behemoth, Batushka, Melechesh and certain Nile albums (and whatever else) are "entry level, easy listening radio metal" just takes the fucking cake :lol: :lol: :lol:


That's the only thing about metal fans that frustrates me. Music is totally subjective so, of course, like what you like. However, acting like any of these bands are "entry level" or "mainstream/radio metal" is insane. Please let me know when you hear a rock block featuring Metallica, Led Zeppelin and Behemoth... Or back-to-back Red Hot Chili Peppers and Batushka.

narsilianshard wrote:
Genres aren't defined by ideology or lyrical content. If it sounds like black metal, it's black metal, regardless of what the lyrics happen to be.


I tend to agree with you. There are some who call christian black metal "unblack" or "white metal" but I tend to think of BM as BM and then separate things on a lyrical/subject matter front. NSBM is still black metal - it's just nazi bullshit. unblack/white metal is still black metal - it's just religious bullshit.

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TheMysticWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 am
Posts: 627
Location: CA, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:52 am 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
pretty much the epitome of volatile, unsubstantiated, postmodern black metal. not trying to come off as a die hard, "trve" black metal guy here, but this band embodies a lot of what is wrong about contemporary black metal in my view. the pseudo-occult stagewear and ripped-off christian orthodox aesthetic elements seem to matter more than the actual quality of the music (which is absent here).


Using all those ridiculous buzzwords and then saying that there is no quality in the music? And then there's that one retard that's calling them the melodic DEATH METAL version of Ghost? What in the actual fuck? :nono:

Is there some rule that states if a band gets more than a million views on YouTube, they're not kvlt enough anymore? I bet these fools listen to Von and enjoy Revenge live.

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Vigintiseptem
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:23 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:55 am 
 

TheMysticWombat wrote:
Using all those ridiculous buzzwords and then saying that there is no quality in the music?

Indeed, pseudo-occult gimmickry and lack of quality in the music are not mutually exclusive, or what are you getting at?

TheMysticWombat wrote:
And then there's that one retard that's calling them the melodic DEATH METAL version of Ghost? What in the actual fuck? :nono:

I'll admit the choice of words was a conscious poke at the pretty obvious melodic death metal influence on their record, I'm sorry it offended you that much. To clarify: the comparison was not a musical one but referred to the heavy use of "aesthetics" in both bands' cases.

TheMysticWombat wrote:
Is there some rule that states if a band gets more than a million views on YouTube, they're not kvlt enough anymore?

Their problem (one of them, at least) is not being "not kvlt enough" but rather trying so fucking hard to be as kvlt as possible. The emperor has no clothes so he robes himself in Russian Orthodox paraphernalia.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:18 am 
 

Sampling some of this just cause this thread caught my eye. Not too bad... definitely pretty easy to get into for extreme metal but I hardly think that means it's sellout shallow radio pop for teenagers or whatever people here think. Pretty good riffs and I like the chant aspect of it. Maybe not something I'd listen to that often but whatever really. I just found it hilarious that apparently this is "overproduced" and bands like Morbid Angel, Melechesh and Nile are now "entry level" or something. I'd love to hear what bands some of these guys are recommending instead, then.
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Kladusha
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:21 am 
 

The only criticism I feel like moving to them is the sometimes inaccurate terminology and, more on the side, the casual usage of the cirillic alphabet. I am not an expert, but I have done my homework regarding orthodox christiany and at first the inaccuracies bugged me a lot.
Moreover, I still find quite weird having a band from a mostly Catholic country, Poland, dressing with Russian paraphernalia and appropriating their neighbours' culture. Their black metal is nothing flashy though, enjoyable nonetheless.

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narsilianshard
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:19 am 
 

Kladusha wrote:
I still find quite weird having a band from a mostly Catholic country, Poland, dressing with Russian paraphernalia and appropriating their neighbours' culture.

Seriously? Now people are concerned about fucking cultural appropriation in black metal? This thread is wild.

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Auch
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Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:20 am 
 

Poland does have an Eastern Orthodox Church though as well as a long relationship with Russian wit hextended occupation so it's not a huge reach to grab inspiration from there.

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Bingewolf
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:48 am 
 

Auch wrote:
Poland does have an Eastern Orthodox Church though as well as a long relationship with Russian wit hextended occupation so it's not a huge reach to grab inspiration from there.


Was going to post something similar but you nailed it... Poland certainly has ties to Russia and these ideologies. It seems that everyone here is just looking for things to trash this band over.

Personally, I find it way more of a red flag that Ghost Bath claimed to be Chinese to get attention... Not to mention, I enjoy Batushka much more than GB.

Empyreal wrote:
I just found it hilarious that apparently this is "overproduced" and bands like Morbid Angel, Melechesh and Nile are now "entry level" or something. I'd love to hear what bands some of these guys are recommending instead, then.


While you’re checking out new music... How about the new easy listening band Portal? :lol:

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:50 pm 
 

More importantly, there's nothing wrong with bands being "entry level". Some bands are better for beginners for subgenres than others. Listening to trash like Tank Genocide doesn't make you cool just because nobody else is listening to it.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:05 pm 
 

Not sure of their criteria or tastes, but to me it sounded like they were saying anything melodic = easier, entry level stuff. Which just isn't the case. Melechesh and Morbid Angel write incredibly complex, tight music that has held up for me for years and I listen to all types of shit.
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:22 pm 
 

I bought the debut LP blindly as I figured it would be right up my alley. I've tried it maybe 3 or 4 times now and I can't stand it.

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DecemberSoul
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:49 pm 
 

Listened to it back when there was the hype, have listened to it again now because of this discussion. I side with those who call it bland if it were not for the one trick pony that is the chanting. Seriously, I haven't heard a single good riff on that album.
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Auch
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:06 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
More importantly, there's nothing wrong with bands being "entry level". Some bands are better for beginners for subgenres than others. Listening to trash like Tank Genocide doesn't make you cool just because nobody else is listening to it.


This.

Although this is an interesting thread to follow because I really like the album and keep revisiting it, maybe because it is so direct and clear cut? It's sometimes a nice palate cleanser between more intense bands / albums and I like that it is so coherent as an entire album.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:53 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Genres aren't defined by ideology or lyrical content. If it sounds like black metal, it's black metal, regardless of what the lyrics happen to be.


I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

You don't think there'd be loads of cognitive dissonance surrounding a band that sounds like punk and yet sings about how we should all sit around and watch TV, obey the police, and respect our government?

It might still sound like punk, but people who are into punk would not be able to call it that and keep a straight face. You could still call it "punk" if you wanted to, but you'd probably be showing your unfamiliarity with the genre or lack of attention to its aesthetics.

This isn't really something new. Lots of genres have ideological and/or roots and connections. You might be able to make music that sounds like Gregorian chant that isn't connected with catholic liturgy, but it wouldn't be Gregorian chant.

This stuff doesn't have to mean anything to you and you don't have to change your mind about it, but you can understand why people feel very differently. It's not as though black metal fans consider their genre "above tampering" or somesuch; there's historical precedent for this stuff outside of metal, too.
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Bingewolf
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:33 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Not sure of their criteria or tastes, but to me it sounded like they were saying anything melodic = easier, entry level stuff. Which just isn't the case. Melechesh and Morbid Angel write incredibly complex, tight music that has held up for me for years and I listen to all types of shit.


I agree, one hundred percent. Go play Melechesh or Morbid Angel for any mainstream music fan and see what they think... Look, obviously everyone on Metal Archives is a big fan of metal. But it should come as no surprise that none of the bands being brought up in this thread are easy listening. We're talking about death metal and black metal bands. Anyone who thinks a band like that is entry level has to be someone who only stays inside the metal scene bubble. No one outside of the scene thinks any of these styles of music are easy to get into - and most wouldn't even know the differences between the bands.

Wilytank wrote:
More importantly, there's nothing wrong with bands being "entry level". Some bands are better for beginners for subgenres than others. Listening to trash like Tank Genocide doesn't make you cool just because nobody else is listening to it.


Even better point than the one I was attempting to make...

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:25 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
narsilianshard wrote:
Genres aren't defined by ideology or lyrical content. If it sounds like black metal, it's black metal, regardless of what the lyrics happen to be.


I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

You don't think there'd be loads of cognitive dissonance surrounding a band that sounds like punk and yet sings about how we should all sit around and watch TV, obey the police, and respect our government?

It might still sound like punk, but people who are into punk would not be able to call it that and keep a straight face. You could still call it "punk" if you wanted to, but you'd probably be showing your unfamiliarity with the genre or lack of attention to its aesthetics.

This isn't really something new. Lots of genres have ideological and/or roots and connections. You might be able to make music that sounds like Gregorian chant that isn't connected with catholic liturgy, but it wouldn't be Gregorian chant.

This stuff doesn't have to mean anything to you and you don't have to change your mind about it, but you can understand why people feel very differently. It's not as though black metal fans consider their genre "above tampering" or somesuch; there's historical precedent for this stuff outside of metal, too.


This. 100%.
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Everflowingstream
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:40 pm 
 

Saw them recently in Tasmania. Thought it was a decent show. Also think the album is fine. I'd call it entry level black metal.

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OceanOfViolence
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:50 pm 
 

Everflowingstream wrote:
Saw them recently in Tasmania. Thought it was a decent show. Also think the album is fine. I'd call it entry level black metal.

I saw em last night and enjoyed it. But I probably would have liked them more had The Chasm not played prior. That was amazing.

I do enjoy Batushka's album a lot though. Very glad I got to see em.
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Kladusha
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:01 am 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Kladusha wrote:
I still find quite weird having a band from a mostly Catholic country, Poland, dressing with Russian paraphernalia and appropriating their neighbours' culture.

Seriously? Now people are concerned about fucking cultural appropriation in black metal? This thread is wild.


I am concerned at all. Just surprised no one raised a voice about it. I do know Poland has an actual orthodox autocephalous church, home of his 600.000 strong contingent of pravoslavi, I was just pointing out what for me are some discrepancies, nothing that really stands between me and being able to enjoy their music; I even saw them live and deeply appreciated the chants, a nice and not so gimmicky addition. Like, I don't demand from my black metal a perfect-to-the book knowledge of theology/philosophy, come on. It is just music. I am not even trying to trash a band I actually like quite a lot.

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CrippledLucifer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:10 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Not sure of their criteria or tastes, but to me it sounded like they were saying anything melodic = easier, entry level stuff. Which just isn't the case. Melechesh and Morbid Angel write incredibly complex, tight music that has held up for me for years and I listen to all types of shit.


I agree, one hundred percent. Go play Melechesh or Morbid Angel for any mainstream music fan and see what they think... Look, obviously everyone on Metal Archives is a big fan of metal. But it should come as no surprise that none of the bands being brought up in this thread are easy listening. We're talking about death metal and black metal bands. Anyone who thinks a band like that is entry level has to be someone who only stays inside the metal scene bubble. No one outside of the scene thinks any of these styles of music are easy to get into - and most wouldn't even know the differences between the bands.


Well isn't it then obvious in the context of this specialized internet forum for metal fans that we're talking about how Batushka are easy listening to people who are already into black or death metal? Or at least to people familiar with the sounds and aesthetics of the music and at least some interest in the genre.
It's obvious that someone unfamiliar with black metal will have a hard time listening to them or Behemoth or whatever any other black metal band they may hear by chance on the public radio midnight metal show, but that's hardly what anyone is implying when they say they are easy listening/entry level bands.

While on the topic, plenty of classic unfuckwithable bands are "entry level" to their subgenres (which by and large Behemoth and Batushka are, these days) because they are really the bands people stumble upon first when they start listening to that subgenre, for whatever reason. There's nothing wrong with Morbid Angel being an entry level band really, just because you look at any beginnner's list to death metal and you're 100% bound to find a bunch of their albums in there as death metal classics you should totally check out.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:44 am 
 

That makes more sense than what was being said earlier. I could be wrong, but it sounded like people were equating melodic writing with being easier to get into and therefore worse, which isn't the case. That kind of thinking creates a dumb binary where the most exquisite stuff is the harshest music or some such thing. And to be fair Batushka did sound pretty clear so far as BM went, so eh, it's whatever at the end of the day I guess.
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k311250
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:52 am 
 

CrippledLucifer wrote:
Well isn't it then obvious in the context of this specialized internet forum for metal fans that we're talking about how Batushka are easy listening to people who are already into black or death metal? Or at least to people familiar with the sounds and aesthetics of the music and at least some interest in the genre.
It's obvious that someone unfamiliar with black metal will have a hard time listening to them or Behemoth or whatever any other black metal band they may hear by chance on the public radio midnight metal show, but that's hardly what anyone is implying when they say they are easy listening/entry level bands.

While on the topic, plenty of classic unfuckwithable bands are "entry level" to their subgenres (which by and large Behemoth and Batushka are, these days) because they are really the bands people stumble upon first when they start listening to that subgenre, for whatever reason. There's nothing wrong with Morbid Angel being an entry level band really, just because you look at any beginnner's list to death metal and you're 100% bound to find a bunch of their albums in there as death metal classics you should totally check out.


Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. Thanks for explaining it for me.

I said Batushka are "overproduced entry level extreme metal" and I didn't say Morbid Angel were melodic or radio friendly, quite the opposite actually. Morbid Angel are entry level because they were pioneers of the genre and one of the first bands people check out. Behemoth nowadays are a lot more melodic than Morbid Angel and there's nothing wrong with that. They are OK, I never even said I don't like Behemoth, I just pointed the obvious: they are melodic, catchy and easy listening (for an extreme metal band) AND I like them more than Batushka so when I'm in the mood for something with that kind of modern overproduced sound I'd go with Behemoth.

As someone already pointed out, Batushka went from being an underground band from Poland to headlining sold out shows in the USA with only 1 album. Maybe their music is not as obscure and menacing as some people in this thread tends to think. Not a lot of black metal bands nowadays can pull out something like this. Maybe this "success" has something to do with the fact that they are quite melodic, catchy and easy listening (again, for and extreme metal band).

Bingewolf wrote:
k311250 wrote:
I didn't say "entry level" because I didn't want to offend anyone but if that's what it takes for you to understand what I meant then I'll reprase that too: if I wanted to listen to some overproduced entry level extreme metal I'd go with Behemoth. Do I also have to explain the radio is a bit different in every country? There's plently of countries where you can actually listen to metal on the radio.


I would classify neither Batushka or Behemoth as "entry level". Entry level implies easily digestible music, something straight forward... Those 2000s Roadrunner bands like Slipknot, Trivium, etc are entry level.


Batushka and Behemoth are entry level death/black/extreme metal, it's not that hard to understand. A lot of people started listening to metal thanks to bands like Slipknot and Trivium and then got into black and death metal thanks to bands like Behemoth (and Batushka nowadays). There's nothing wrong with that. It used to be bands like Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth or Keep of Kalessin in the past but I guess those bands aren't trendy anymore.

Finally, I've seen some people accusing me in this thread of being "elitist" while at the same time pretty much everyone here laughs at Slipknot. I guess it's not elitism if the band doesn't use costumes covered in inverted crucifixes and skulls, isn't it? Besides, there really isn't that big a difference between bands like Slipknot and Behemoth to the general public.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:12 pm 
 

k311250 wrote:
As someone already pointed out, Batushka went from being an underground band from Poland to headlining sold out shows in the USA with only 1 album. Maybe their music is not as obscure and menacing as some people in this thread tends to think. Not a lot of black metal bands nowadays can pull out something like this. Maybe this "success" has something to do with the fact that they are quite melodic, catchy and easy listening (again, for and extreme metal band).


Of course it does - most music that is well liked has strong melodies and catchy moments. Not sure what the point is unless you're just stating facts.
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k311250
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:17 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
k311250 wrote:
As someone already pointed out, Batushka went from being an underground band from Poland to headlining sold out shows in the USA with only 1 album. Maybe their music is not as obscure and menacing as some people in this thread tends to think. Not a lot of black metal bands nowadays can pull out something like this. Maybe this "success" has something to do with the fact that they are quite melodic, catchy and easy listening (again, for and extreme metal band).


Of course it does - most music that is well liked has strong melodies and catchy moments. Not sure what the point is unless you're just stating facts.

Yeah, sorry. I was just clarifying what I said since it seems to be so polemic and pretty much everyone here told me none of what I said is true or that it's pathetic to have this point of view.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:27 pm 
 

I think it's mostly the notion that 'easy listening' is a negative.
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