This is hardly new. Bjorn from In Flames told me around 2004 that post-9/11, touring the U.S. is a giant headache

http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-ne ... e-worth-it

Satyricon did their farewell U.S. tour this May, but they're not breaking up. They're just really tired of trying to come over to America. Satyricon's last U.S. tour prior to this was in 2010 and the band said coming over here for shows has "been a difficult chapter in the history of Satyricon."

Now in an interview with Hayley Leggs, drummer Kjetil-Vidar "Frost" Haraldstad goes more in-depth as to why touring the U.S. is such a pain in the ass. Frost says it's way too much work to try to come here and the possibility of it all falling through at the last minute is too high for it to be worth it.

"We're not gonna have any more ordinary club tours happening. It's ridiculous the amount of bureaucratic work involved. What you have to document as a European band going to the U.S. now is beyond rational. It seems like American authorities try to prevent European bands from going to the U.S. It's like they say, 'Hire American musicians. Have the vocalist over and hire the rest of the band.' It's just weird; I cannot find a better word for it. And nobody I've been talking to — even Americans themselves — understands the very, very problematic process. You have to work for an entire year to plan for a four-week tour to happen, and you don't even know whether you can actually make it and get the paperwork done in time etc. etc. So it takes the fun out of touring, really."

Totally relatable from an European point of view.

Completely true, but the bureaucratic process has gotten much worse recently. Touring the US post-9/11 has been a headache for bands due to the visa requirements and the process for getting those. The requirements are nothing new, but the reality has become much more of a hassle. These are also the strictest of any country where metal musicians tour, and the whole process has a ton of red tape and takes a long time, especially compared to the rest of the world. If you're interested in this, I highly recommend reading this interview with Marc Gessford of Play America - he handles visas for metal musicians out of passion, including for ProgPower USA and some for MDF.
http://www.theblacksiren.com/so-you-wan ... read-this/

What has gotten much worse recently is the handling of visa applications. Recently, some people involved have started opening up about what the "visa issues" are, because these are not "visa issues," they are incompetent handling of them by USCIS. It seems like they don't even read the extensive applications. A number of bands who have been granted visas several times before had them held up for trivial reasons. For example, Mr. Gessford detailed, in the post below, why At the Gates visas were held up even though they've been over here every other year in the last decade.

https://www.facebook.com/PlayAmericaVis ... 8756589390

Uli Jon Roth, who has played the US every year since 2006, was forced to cancel some, then all dates of his tour simply because his visa application was not processed. He got his visa two weeks after his tour was scheduled to start. His comment was:

Our work Visas have been delayed through no fault of our own. This has happened each year since 2014, but so far, the Visas were always granted at the last minute.
We don't know why, but each year it is getting harder to obtain the required work Visas for foreign artists like myself, no matter how far in advance we are applying and no matter what we do. The hurdles are considerable and each year the bar gets raised it seems."

https://www.facebook.com/ulijonrothoffi ... 0333089308

Darkspace had their visas held up for a one-off appearance at MDF because USCIS sent an RFE asking for more evidence that the band was notable. As if a one-off contract headlining a festival that draws thousands of people each year wasn't enough, they were forced to cancel simply because they could not have gotten a decision on time. Bloodbath also couldn't play the same fest due to visa issues, and those guys have all been here before.

Frost is right, it isn't worth it to play America, entirely because of our useless work visa system for musicians. You know who's doing great? The bands who come here without visas. God bless America.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Helloween only doing 5 American dates.

Unlikely, as the big hurdle is simply getting here in the first place, due to visas and the cost of flights.

Yet there are plenty bands that come over here 2 or 3 times during a tour cycle and have no problems getting visas. Plus they still have that rape allegation that happened in Canada like ten years ago which I’m sure is still held against them.

From an outsider's perspective it just seems harder to get into the USA if you have skeletons in your closet, or come from the wrong country. That Uli Jon Roth comment is interesting - not like he wouldn't have gone through the process before so knows how it all works. Sounds like the relevant department needs an overhaul to remove inefficiencies.

somehow this doesn't really sound too surprising to me. i don't really see it getting better anytime soon either unfortunately.

Touring is a hard gig for many reasons. Bands rarely come to Australia for reasons that should be pretty obvious, so it's always nice to have some come here. We don't have the Visa issues...yet.

This is why underground bands just sneak in. Ship guitars/pedals over in advance, or buy/borrow them there, tour with a US band who can lend out backline, get merch printed over there, get separate flights in, and have some contact details for the "friend you're going to stay with". It's risky and a lot of effort, sure, but these days it doesn't seem much worse than all the fuckery involved in doing it legitimately.

Hell, even the legit route is absolute bullshit. I know a guy who had to go for an interview at the embassy to get his working visa, so he prepared this massive folder of information to prove that he's notable enough to let in - he had help with this from a visa agency organisation, apparently this is a really important part of the process. So he has this big folder full of references, goes to his interview, the person barely glances at the first page and just says "yeah, you're approved". All that work, stress, and worrying about having enough quality information to make his case, and he gets approved in seconds.

Then there was that issue with Evil Invaders getting sent back home due to not having a work permit, despite not actually getting paid to be there: https://www.facebook.com/evilinvaders/p ... 51624386:0

It's fucked up.

Well they are called Evil Invaders...

Every time a band gets denied to tour the US due to visa issues, the terrorists win.

We went through this process with my band recently, and also got approved very fast. But I can tell you, this is where these agencies are very useful, because they know exactly what needs to be done, and how the information needs to be formulated, to get a swift approval. Like in a lot of administrative applications, the key is not the actual content, but the way it is presented. I think a lot of refused/delayed visas come from this, bands who try to fill in all of the paperwork themselves, in a way that seems correct and complete to them. But often it's not what the people reading this application expect, which causes them to "think" too much, ask clarifications, additional info, and so on... Not blaming these bands for trying, as hiring a specialized agency is expensive. But after going through this myself, I can say for sure that we wouldn't have managed on our own, there are just too many very specific details to know in advance.

By the way, regarding the story of your friend : actually this whole "paperwork" is approved by the USCIS, which is a prerequisite for the in-person interview. When you're at the embassy, you're pretty much approved already, and they just check some trivial stuff in your personal background.

And yeah, a lot of bands just "sneak in" as tourists. This works particularly well for bands in which the members are anonymous : if the border control agent googles your name, he won't find the link to your band (and US tour) if you appear under an unrelated pseudonym

Good point, which I failed to spot. But I'm now tempted to start a band called Homeland Hostility just to try and tour the USA.

The other problem with the legitimate route that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it's really fucking expensive. For underground bands that don't even know for sure if they're going to get paid half the time, well, the obvious course of action is kind of obvious, right?

Really interesting interview with Marc Gessford; thanks for posting that. I appreciate that he tried to break it all down in a rather succinct way. He seems genuine, but his dismissal of the cost factor involved seems typical of any lawyer I've ever heard of. The whole process is obviously not conducive to the true underground. many bands do want to come over for a one-off appearance and have no intention of touring the entire country as Marc describes. I mean, I think we all know how large the uS is and we don't need to be schooled about that. It's particularly egregious for Canadian bands (I would say this though, wouldn't I?) since it's theoretically easy to just pop over for a weekend and do a couple of shows, no flights involved. We all want it to be hassle-free and painless, and maybe that's an unreasonable expectation for being welcomed to do our thing in another country, but it's certainly not realistic to expect a band from the underground to pay thousands of dollars just to play a festival in new York or something. The fact that they expect some weird "proof of notariety" just demonstrates how skewed the entire process is -- like we're taking ticket sales away from Guns 'n' Roses or some damn thing. Come on!

I'm glad it worked out well for you. Problem is, sometimes the process works quickly, sometimes it doesn't, and it isn't necessarily based on preparation. Refer to the Play America links above, because I really love the guy's work and his transparency about it. If it was as simple as having a lawyer handle it and submit the right information to get it approved in a timely manner, then sure. Problem is, we have a lawyer who does this for a lot of metal bands who needs to start submitting paperwork ten months in advance, and still gets months-long delays based on a request for basic information that is already there on the forms.

You're definitely wrong about this causing the people reading the application to "think too much." Every legal process like this in America, they barely glance at it, and the other 500 pages are just there for show. Again, see the PA interview for applications delayed by month for completely errant requests like the birth certificate of the festival organizer.



I'm glad you read and enjoyed the article - his explanations have really been the basis of my understanding of the subject.

Your other point highlights a huge part of the problem - it's pretty easy for Canadian bands to drive across the border, and it is really easy to circumvent this the illegal way! The burden of the legal process is monumental compared to just driving across the border. They don't have the underground in mind, of course, but for anything less than a full-scale professional production, it's pretty easy to get in *unless* the same band has been over here legally and has that on their record!

It's also absurd, considering how easy it is for American bands to get into Canada. I've made the trip to Canada with a band once, and with the same guys two other times. The formalities of an American band crossing the border took all of three minutes sitting in our car, maybe five when the USA said there was normally a tariff of about $20 to bring merch back from Canada, but they didn't feel like doing the paperwork for it right now. The other times, maybe a minute or two of asking our names, where we're from, occupation, where we're going, and how long we're staying. But if it was the other way around, it'd be insane!

It's always a risk, every time we go over. Gear is a real problem. It's hard to justify bringing much of it along when you're pretty much denying that you have any serious uh, musical intentions, in the United States.

I wonder if monetarily its even worth it for some bands. I saw Cult of Luna in 2015(?) in New York City, and there couldn't have been more than 150 people there. The biggest city in the US and that's all that showed up? Crazy. They had an opening band and of course there are like 7 band members plus managers, could hardly be worth the effort.

It's a proposition where you're bound to lose money rather than make it. In the current climate, I think a lot of us just accept that this is a really expensive hobby. I personally think the US should be happy that we buy gas, food and lodgings in the country and not extort all this extra nonsense from artists.