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Rocka_Rollas
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:25 am 
 

Everybody knows they were embaressed by their previous work.
Why no name change? I mean they had great success despite that, but I still wonder sometimes.

Grave Digger changed to Digger when they wanted to conquer the world and we know how well that went :lol:

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Turner
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1973
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:28 am 
 

They probably would have, but they didn't make an active effort to disown the older stuff until they were well and truly established - after Vulgar Display came out, at which point they were pretty much the biggest non-Metallica metal band ever. They had Power Metal songs in their setlist for at least some of the Cowboys tour, and there's a video of them on youtube playing PST '88 on NYE in 92/93 (granted it's a "joke" song, but they clearly weren't that averse to the idea). My copy of Vulgar still credits Dimebag as "Diamond Darrell", too. I think it must have been Phil's idea, sometime between Vulgar and Far Beyond Driven - once he decided he was the tuffest dude around. That being said, they'd DEFINITELY disowned all pre-Phil material before Cowboys came out. Shame really, cause while I'd totally agree the pre-Phil stuff has no real place from Cowboys onwards, Power Metal was a gotDAYUM good album by "fucken metal, mate" standards.

edit: proof Pantera played a Power Metal song as late as 1993:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGAAf9afRA

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MawBTS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 720
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:40 am 
 

Because there was never a sharp enough change in their sound to warrant it. I Am The Night is 50% of the way to being Power Metal, and Power Metal is 50% of the way to being Cowboys from Hell.

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fourrobert13
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:31 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:51 am 
 

Power Metal is a good album despite being in the vein of hair metal. I don't care for the ones prior to it because they were just flat out hair metal, nor did I care for the vocals on them. Lost Society did a cover version of PST '88 on their last album. Bands evolve and that's what Pantera did. No need to change the name.
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MetallicaTrueFan
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:23 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:06 am 
 

It is because the name was marketable to a wide audience and could work well with their new groove sound. Pantera is a simple band name that could connect with a large audience. Even if Pantera sounded like a name that would fit for a glam band, they made it work with a much heavier and hardcore sound they had in the 90's.
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:33 am 
 

Turner wrote:
I think it must have been Phil's idea, sometime between Vulgar and Far Beyond Driven - once he decided he was the tuffest dude around. That being said, they'd DEFINITELY disowned all pre-Phil material before Cowboys came out. Shame really, cause while I'd totally agree the pre-Phil stuff has no real place from Cowboys onwards, Power Metal was a gotDAYUM good album by "fucken metal, mate" standards.


Well, here's a quote from Phil about "Power Metal":
Quote:
Honestly, if people got past the image and whatnot of the bar-band hair bullshit that was going on in the late '80s, you would pretty much realize that it's a pretty solid metal record all around in the vein of JUDAS PRIEST


I think they only really disowned it because their "glam" looks were still front and center on the cover - hard to hide your past when you're looking like that :lol:. And to be fair, I honestly think that if knowledge of their "glam" past had been more widespread in the early 90's, given the musical climate and perception of glam, it honestly probably would've destroyed their credibility & lead to them not being taken anywhere near as seriously.
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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:11 pm 
 

I dunno man I think name changes for aesthetic differences is a pretty modern thing, and an especially metal thing. So many bands out there put out different sounding albums in regards to tone, songwriting approach, genre influences, etc, all under the same moniker. Modern metal is always like band X plays genre Y and if the members wanna play something else they start a new project. Obviously there is exceptions but you see that a lot nowadays, especially but not only in metal.

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BrutalizerUtilizerOfTheShadows
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am
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Location: In the Cold Winds of Nowhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:46 pm 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
I dunno man I think name changes for aesthetic differences is a pretty modern thing, and an especially metal thing. So many bands out there put out different sounding albums in regards to tone, songwriting approach, genre influences, etc, all under the same moniker. Modern metal is always like band X plays genre Y and if the members wanna play something else they start a new project. Obviously there is exceptions but you see that a lot nowadays, especially but not only in metal.


That is a very good point. Bands that come to mind that changed throughout the years are Enslaved and Bathory. Enslaved started with an epic black metal sound and evolved into prog metal mixed with some viking/black metal sounds. Bathory played an array of different sounds throughout their career from black metal, to thrash, to epic viking metal. Neither of them changed their name because they were building on something from the beginning. It's an evolutionary process which is constantly changing even though it is all under the same name.

Then there are bands who you can pretty much guarantee that they will never change they're style or aesthetic. Like Black Dahlia Murder or Cannibal Corpse. Trevor and Brian from TBDM have described their approach to having a band as having "tunnel vision." They are fixated on what they want to do and they keep doing it because it works. Same with Cannibal Corpse, they have been putting out some of the most brutal shit you've ever heard for almost thirty years now, and you can probably safely say that they will remain in that style until the end of their career. And that's not to say that those bands haven't evolved, because they have, but the vision hasn't shifted as it often does for some bands.
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Turner
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:31 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
Well, here's a quote from Phil about "Power Metal":
Quote:
Honestly, if people got past the image and whatnot of the bar-band hair bullshit that was going on in the late '80s, you would pretty much realize that it's a pretty solid metal record all around in the vein of JUDAS PRIEST


Thing is that quote is from what, 2015? If you'd asked him in 1995 about it he'd have tried to punch your lights out.
Phil's only started being a "nice old dude" in the last couple of years, and no doubt he won't shit on anything Dimebag-related anymore.

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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:56 pm 
 

Always rubbed me the wrong way how they acted like the earlier stuff never happened. They might be forced to admit it now (as quoted), but during the '90s I'm sure they successfully buried their past, to a point.
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true_death
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:39 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
Phil's only started being a "nice old dude" in the last couple of years, and no doubt he won't shit on anything Dimebag-related anymore.


That's very true, I always think back to this interview from 2004, which is all kinds of horrifying given Dimebag was murdered literally a few days later.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:02 am 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Because there was never a sharp enough change in their sound to warrant it. I Am The Night is 50% of the way to being Power Metal, and Power Metal is 50% of the way to being Cowboys from Hell.


I agree, and want to add: The timing tells the story pretty well. That style was also rapidly becoming unpopular in those years, those songs probably didn't go over very well live when they played with Exodus and Suicidal Tendencies. Not only that, but they really found success with CFH.

The bigger factor is the commercial one. Those albums were long out-of-print, low-quantity, and self-released, they never saw any real distribution or promotion. They weren't commercially viable in the 80s, they definitely weren't in the 90s. They got turned down by labels 28 times, and only had albums because their dad was a record producer. They jumped from making a thousand copies to a label making the first hundred thousand copies of an eventual million. Those first four records stayed out of print in the 90s because the label knew that they couldn't sell them on the music, only the Pantera name. By the time their third album hit #1 and they had three albums on the way to selling a million copies each, before you could find out this stuff on the internet, their publicists decided that they should mention the three albums this band had in stores, and completely forget about those old LP records that nobody could get anyway. They basically didn't exist to a pre-internet consumer, their publicist had no reason to mention them in promotional spots, the label couldn't sell them if they tried.


I never understood the love for Power Metal, anyway. For years, I've heard people *making a point* by saying they like that but not Pantera's later stuff, yet if you're a fan of that style, there's countless better albums.
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Natskygge
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:49 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:28 am 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Always rubbed me the wrong way how they acted like the earlier stuff never happened. They might be forced to admit it now (as quoted), but during the '90s I'm sure they successfully buried their past, to a point.

A friend of mine, born in 1993, got a legitimate shock when I brought up Pantera's glam past. He had no idea they'd made that kind of music, he only knew their tough-guy groove stuff. Another friend of mine, who's been a fan of Pantera since the mid to late nineties, also doesn't really know what kind of music they made in the eighties. To be fair, she was only a baby when they made those albums. But for a self-confessed music nerd with rock journalist-ambitions, it's perhaps a little weird.

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Turner
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1973
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:31 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
I never understood the love for Power Metal, anyway. For years, I've heard people *making a point* by saying they like that but not Pantera's later stuff, yet if you're a fan of that style, there's countless better albums.


madness! If Pantera had never made it big, I think PM would have become a cult classic by now. If anything, Pantera's later superstardom (courtesy of the nu-metal craze at first, and now the "omg groove sux!" mentality) severely hindered the album's potential retroactive kudos.

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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:44 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
Zodijackyl wrote:
I never understood the love for Power Metal, anyway. For years, I've heard people *making a point* by saying they like that but not Pantera's later stuff, yet if you're a fan of that style, there's countless better albums.


madness! If Pantera had never made it big, I think PM would have become a cult classic by now. If anything, Pantera's later superstardom (courtesy of the nu-metal craze at first, and now the "omg groove sux!" mentality) severely hindered the album's potential retroactive kudos.


I disagree, there's no way that album is regarded in the same realm as the top-tier classics like QR and FW, and I don't think it even holds up against the second-tier stuff, be it Shok Paris or Fifth Angel. This would probably be the same realm of "cult classic" as Rage of Angels or ESP. Power Metal isn't bad by any means, but it's not at all exceptional nor special.
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MetalCrest of Darkness
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:29 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:57 am 
 

Actually "Power Metal" was the album where I predicated Pantera were going to be the next big thing / popular band. I spread the word all over the mid-west and got a lot of thrashers, in my state where I live, aware of the upcoming groove metal shift in style, I seen this band was heading towards, a heavier direction. After since a lot of the original speed /thrash metal bands were washing-up/ washing-out, aka the slown-down syndrome, before they eventually all sold-out.

The band got a lot of momentum from this album, I was a proud first day buyer of this album "Power Metal". I have 3 CDs of the 1st pressing before the bootlegs. I contacted every concert theatre in my state about this band, because I knew they were the then future of heavy metal.

People really can not say they did not know about the 1st 4 albums before the major label debut, since Metal Forces seemed to like the band, even reviewing the debut album. I have a December 1988 Live Simulcast recording where half of the recording, is from the "Power Metal" Masterpiece a 10/10 for me. and the upcoming "Cowboys from Hell" masterpiece CD a 10/ 10 for me. I am also a huge fan of Exhorder, and where Pantera had the edge was in guitar hero/ virtuosity. And as a live band Pantera ruled/ kicked major ass, back then.

To bad "Power Metal" never got repressed with the 1990 logo, in a collectors edition. The band's publicist was smart about not mentioning the Glam Metal classic, "Power Metal" in the press kits, back then, because everyone knew the thrash age, was about to be over. And I predicted a Death Metal age ,was on the horizon.

With the 1st 3 albums I never got one, because evertime they were in a record store, they sold like hotcakes, and could never get a LP or cassette, "Power Metal" was the album where I took off of Work, to be at the record store a half hour before it opened up, I got 2 LPS and 4 cassettes, because the word of mouth was this album was going to be a highlight of 1988, which it was!!! I wish I would of bought every single LP and cassette then.

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zgole
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:21 pm
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Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:52 am 
 

fourrobert13 wrote:
Bands evolve and that's what Pantera did. No need to change the name.


I totaly agree with this statement, sir.

I feel there is a lot of hipocrisy going on this forum, people saying stuff like "Pantera ruined metal with tough guy attitude/music" etc.

You people should be embarrassed. Back in the 90's, Pantera had huge positive metal impact on music scene. It felt authentic. And it was quality and heavy and fun at the same time.

Good times.

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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:18 am 
 

In his book, Rex also is complimentary when it comes to Power Metal; he said something along the lines of it being a decent, heavy record. I'm inclined to agree - it's solid and likeable. They really isn't much glam to it, either, even if it is a bit goofy.
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idunnosomename
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:00 pm 
 

Let's be honest, Cowboys from Hell is a bit goofy from the get-go. It did well because it has some fucking good songs on it, though.

I guess they'll embrace and re-release their early stuff eventually, because it is fun, and could be monetised.

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ChildClownOutlet
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:07 pm 
 

Power Metal deserved so much better, it was such a fun album to listen to.
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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:13 pm 
 

Because power metal is their best album.

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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Always rubbed me the wrong way how they acted like the earlier stuff never happened. They might be forced to admit it now (as quoted), but during the '90s I'm sure they successfully buried their past, to a point.


I remember that even as late as the early '00's "Glamtera" was a somewhat obscure thing, with fans in genuine shock and denial that there was a pre CFH discography...i guess it was easy for them to hide it in the dial-up days of internet.

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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:56 am 
 

It sucks because Power Metal is a great album. The title track is among their best tunes! But CFH was obviously a shift in direction in every way; their logo, image, production, genre all changed, while Power Metal was an extension of the glam style they had been making before. So if you're gonna try to pretend the old shit didn't happen, then you gotta bury it all.

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BenjaminC81
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:09 am 
 

true_death wrote:
Turner wrote:
Phil's only started being a "nice old dude" in the last couple of years, and no doubt he won't shit on anything Dimebag-related anymore.


That's very true, I always think back to this interview from 2004, which is all kinds of horrifying given Dimebag was murdered literally a few days later.


Oh please, why do people always bring up that interview to proof that Anselmo is supposedly an asshole? The man was out of his mind on booze, painkillers and heroin at the time. On top of that he and the Abbott brothers were in the middle of an ugly split. What he said was out of line, i totally agree. But i bet a day doesn't go by that he regrets those words in the light of the events that happened shortly after. Take about unfortunate timing... Point is people say a lot of shit they don't mean when they are fucked up and angry at each other.

I have no doubts that Pantera would have reunited sooner or later if not for Dime's unfortunate death. Phil has been trying to make amends for years but Vinnie is just a stubborn dumb hick who refuses to let go of old grudges.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:42 pm 
 

Why change it? They weren't embarrassed of their older work until MUCH later.

Plus, they had a big local following.

No reason at all to change it.
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:16 pm 
 

This idea that bands should almost be "obligated" to change their name when they change sounds or members irritates me to no end.
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true_death
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:44 pm 
 

BenjaminC81 wrote:
Oh please, why do people always bring up that interview to proof that Anselmo is supposedly an asshole? The man was out of his mind on booze, painkillers and heroin at the time. On top of that he and the Abbott brothers were in the middle of an ugly split. What he said was out of line, i totally agree. But i bet a day doesn't go by that he regrets those words in the light of the events that happened shortly after. Take about unfortunate timing... Point is people say a lot of shit they don't mean when they are fucked up and angry at each other.

I have no doubts that Pantera would have reunited sooner or later if not for Dime's unfortunate death. Phil has been trying to make amends for years but Vinnie is just a stubborn dumb hick who refuses to let go of old grudges.


Well, I wasn't calling him an asshole, I was just providing an example of how he used to have a much more aggressive personality compared to his way more laid-back nature today. I don't know him or what he went through - like you said I'm sure he was just fucked up/depressed and never really meant any of that shit, I just find it interesting because obviously, today he would never even consider saying anything even remotely negative about Dime, doing so would literally end his career.

As for Vinnie, I think it's important to try and understand his situation. I can't imagine many people have had to go through the things he has...he's even said he doesn't hate Phil or blame him anymore, he just doesn't want to reconnect. I understand some might think it's petty after so many years, but it's easy to say that when you've (hopefully) never seen your own brother murdered before your very eyes.
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TheArchivist
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:25 am 
 

The name's great for any metal band (of any style with the exception of gore or dsbm quite obviously) so a moniker change was uncalled for. What really bugs me is the change of logo design; before, the group's logo looked very "metal". With the CFH album, the font utilized was like something used for signs like "rest room" or "men at work".

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joppek
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:05 am 
 

TheArchivist wrote:
What really bugs me is the change of logo design; before, the group's logo looked very "metal". With the CFH album, the font utilized was like something used for signs like "rest room" or "men at work".


men at work rocks
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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:50 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
TheArchivist wrote:
What really bugs me is the change of logo design; before, the group's logo looked very "metal". With the CFH album, the font utilized was like something used for signs like "rest room" or "men at work".


men at work rocks

dun dun dun DUUUUUUUN dun dun

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idunnosomename
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:48 pm 
 

Down Under is basically a Running Wild chord progression.

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Opus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:11 pm 
 

thrashinbatman wrote:
dun dun dun DUUUUUUUN dun dun

Who can it beeee now?
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Hemispheres
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:39 pm 
 

I suppose it's because of their local success in packing out the clubs in Texas. They worked too hard with that name to change it. I think it's a good name. Maybe they wanted people to be blown away that that Pantera got so much heavier. RIP vinnie and darrel
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:35 pm 
 

This thread makes me wonder what the importance of band names was back then and how it compares to today's scene politics. Every other old guard seems to have the same "started off as (insert generic metal word here) before changing it to (insert iconic name here)" story while most newer bands don't really seem to care if a particular name is taken or not.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:17 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
most newer bands don't really seem to care if a particular name is taken or not.


Because there is zero chance of them turning their hobby band into a career, and are thus less serious about it. That's just where the metal scene is now.
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