HeavenDuff wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
I don't buy that it's not easily definable. Like any genre, it'll vary, but for the most part, by and large, metal is based on riffs that sound like the general kind penned by the bands that started the genre.
Yeah, but a black metal riff sounds nothing like a doom metal riff or a power metal riff. Genres evolve from each other and eventually blend elements from other genres and will eventually incorporate elements of non-metal genres.
I'm kind of with Zelkiiro on this one. When we get to the edges, what is it that really makes a genre metal and another not? Like why are people accepting deathgrind as more metal than deathcore. I personnaly feel that, even with the grindcore influences, deathgrind has enough of the keep elements of death metal to remain in the death metal area, while deathcore heavily focuses on breakdowns, chugging riffs and down-tuned heavy hardcore riffs that barely keep anything from death metal and doesn't qualify as metal anymore.
But when we start getting specific, as in... when we start talking specific bands, you'll notice that a lot of people disagree on if Between the Buried and Me, Despised Icon and others.
With nu-metal it's typically easier to say yes or no because of how stereotypical nu-metal usually is. The genre in itself didn't evolve much since the early 2000's and for the bands that did "evolve" they pretty much all moved further towards hard rock like Disturbed, Slipknot, Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit did. Nu-metal hardly ever had anything metal to start with, so it's way more clear cut when it comes to genre classification.
Eh, you can trace a lot of black metal back to Bathory, Celtic Frost, etc... that is also what I'd consider classic enough to be genre-forming. And they came from Sabbath and various other weird influences forming back in the 80s. I think it's all connected and you can hear it if you listen to enough. It isn't so mysterious.
Power metal, yeah, some of it can be quite light for metal, but most of it is pretty firmly based in obvious metal riffing, even if keys or vocals are more accentuated.
When you get away from that and into more harsh noise-type sounds or hardcore or hard rock or something, that's when it isn't metal. I suppose if you asked me to specify more, I would classify metal riffs as being typically aggressive and moving the song along in a fluid way, with little breaking up the guitars. There are other genres that do that, but metal typically focuses on a complex riff-writing style with a lot of melody and grandiosity and atmosphere, rather than being used solely as a blunt instrument all the time.
But all that's secondary to my simpler explanation from before, which applies to most metal I'd say - yeah it split off into different genres, but none of it is so different that they're not still under the umbrella of metal.
I think this site's opinions come into play sometimes - like with bands like Deep Purple or Rush. But I'd argue the reason those bands were included is because they have enough metallic songs to be counted. Others might disagree. That's where the debate comes in - but not something so large as "we just can't actively say what metal is at all."